16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Brockololly]

blademaster7 wrote...

You guys can't be serious. You are alright with continuing a story/romance with a new character? Wouldn't you rather have some closure before moving on to new things?

BINGO! Thats precisely my main point with any DA2 or future DA game. Romancing Morrigan with another new PC at this point would just feel cheap. To me, it would just seem like cashing in on Morrigan as a character while ignoring a large chunk of the 1st game. Never mind the fact that playing as a new character and meeting Morrigan all over again would be repetitive- most likely we'd have to go through the whole game with her again only to get suckered into the tragic ending....again. Either that or they would alter Morrigan's character so drastically to keep things fresh for the new PC that it wouldn't seem like Morrigan anymore, or they just make her the villain. Having a new PC romance Morrigan or really for me, have to deal with the results of the Warden's actions with Morrigan would really suck, to put it bluntly.

Again, I'll bring it back to KOTOR-KOTOR2; KOTOR1 ended well enough with closure for Revan. And I would have been fine with KOTOR2 being just about the Exile, but of course they've got to dredge up Revan and throw the Exile on the Ebon Hawk with no explanation as to why Revan isn't there. And then of course now, we'll likely never get a satisfying conclusion to Revan's story, when it wasended just fine in KOTOR1.

My point with bringing up KOTOR is that for the Morri romancing Warden, he didn't even get the closure we sought at the end of DAO that Revan got at the end of KOTOR1. And to just drop the Warden and move on to some new Epic Hero of Thedas when there are still pretty glaring loose ends? Its just that until the Warden's story gets some closure and sense of finality to it, to me it would be difficult to move on to a new PC without thinking what the hell is my old Warden doing?

blademaster7 wrote...

Who's to say that DA2 won't have the same BS? New, characters, new romances... and in the end the same crappy ending with so many questions that will remain un-answered, and your PC feeling like a total idiot for making the "right" decisions. Moving from an un-finished game to another is not something I'm particularly fond of. If this is the formula they plan on using then I'm back to shooters.

Right on- to me, thats my fear, reasonable or unreasonable as it may be. Thats why when I see the DLC like Darkspawn chronicles or the Feastday Gifts its all "meh" I appreciate that its out there for those that want it, but Bioware games to me have always been story 1st. Even with Awakening, it wasn't bad but expansion or not, it didn't hold a candle to Origins, in story or characters. So to just run off and start a new story with new characters in a likely new area or new time period? I'd be reluctant to do so, when they've kind of left the Warden out to dry.

I mean isn't the whole point behind the Dark Ritual that not only Morrigan gets the OGB but the Warden survives and lives to fight another day? It would just be disappointing if the Warden gets dumped for some new hero with little to no explanation beyond "He vanished!" or "Oh he got killed in a freak nug wrangling accident" or " A giant boulder crushed him while looking for Morrigan!"

I really have no doubt Morrigan will return in some capacity. Its the Warden side of things that worries me. Just plunking down a new Epic Hero of Thedas to deal with the whole Morrigan mess my Warden created or by just ignoring that would really sour future DA games for me. I know that not every DAO player loved Morrigan or anything but I mean come on, Morrigan is really the only big loose end from Origins and if you romanced her, unlike the other romances which at least got closure, the Warden gets a swift kick in the balls with the closing of the Morrigan romance. To just never hear from the Warden again after that? Weak, Bioware very weak indeed.

Modifié par Brockololly, 11 mai 2010 - 03:27 .

[Addai]

My investment in the Morrigan romance is much smaller than Alistair's and more lately-come than most of the posters here. With that caveat, I'll say that I would rather have nothing at all than a cheap hand-wave. However, if BW takes the risk to resolve the DAO stories in a deep and complete way, that means some players are going to get burned. It would be too complex to acknowledge every possible combination of story events while at the same time setting up a new one.  It seems to me that certain events will have to be made canon and you let the chips fall where they may.

I wish I could say that I would be satisfied by a DLC resolving Origins so that DA2 could start fresh, but the trend in the DLCs has not been promising. There seems to be a de-emphasis both on the Origins NPCs and on immersive team interaction in general.

Modifié par Addai67, 11 mai 2010 - 03:57 .

[blademaster7]

Brockololly wrote...

I mean isn't the whole point behind the Dark Ritual that not only Morrigan gets the OGB but the Warden survives and lives to fight another day? It would just be disappointing if the Warden gets dumped for some new hero with little to no explanation beyond "He vanished!" or "Oh he got killed in a freak nug wrangling accident" or " A giant boulder crushed him while looking for Morrigan!"

I really have no doubt Morrigan will return in some capacity. Its the
Warden side of things that worries me. Just plunking down a new Epic
Hero of Thedas to deal with the whole Morrigan mess my Warden created or
by just ignoring that would really sour future DA games for me. I know
that not every DAO player loved Morrigan or anything but I mean come on,
Morrigan is really the only big loose end from Origins and if you
romanced her, unlike the other romances which at least got closure, the
Warden gets a swift kick in the balls with the closing of the Morrigan
romance. To just never hear from the Warden again after that? Weak,
Bioware very weak indeed.

I like the boulder one. Hopefully, they will add it to the codex.

It's just not the same seeing her again with a new character.  Love, friendship, hate... all those emotions are gone. Imagine how terrible it would be if you bump into her and gives you the "are you a scavenger or intruder" introduction all over again.

There is also the rumor of playing as the OGC. I guess this scenario is better than playing with a stranger, but then again, being forced into playing a human mage would be a step backwards. Or they could just make you an uber warrior-mage hybrid. Still, the emotion would not be as strong. Not to mention that it would be weird.

[Brockololly]

blademaster7 wrote...

It's just not the same seeing her again with a new character.  Love, friendship, hate... all those emotions are gone. Imagine how terrible it would be if you bump into her and gives you the "are you a scavenger or intruder" introduction all over again.

There is also the rumor of playing as the OGC. I guess this scenario is better than playing with a stranger, but then again, being forced into playing a human mage would be a step backwards. Or they could just make you an uber warrior-mage hybrid. Still, the emotion would not be as strong. Not to mention that it would be weird.

Its a matter of emotional enagagement, as Bioware is apt to say. They've built up a good thing in Origins and given how it ended at least for Morrigan and the Warden, to just move on to something else would  abandon all prior emotional engagement in the story and universe of DA, IMO. Sure the world of Thedas is interesting but its the characters that keep me playing so to just marginalize the Origins characters going forward would stink.

Sure you could build that emotional engagement back up in a new game, but the buy in factor and continuity you get by continuing with the Warden and at least some of the crew from Origins is not an insignificant thing and surely something that should not be brushed aside.

As for playing as the Old God Baby- hmmm.... to me and probably alot of other Bioware fans, it at least superficially seems way too similar to Baldur's Gate and playing as the Bhaalspawn. Maybe they could make it work, but never mind the fact that it would be weird to have Morrigan as the PC's mother having just romanced her in Origins, but with any new PC you've got the matter of closure with the Warden, IMO. Until they deliver some decent closure with the Warden's story, any route they take with a new PC will be a bit lackluster.

Modifié par Brockololly, 11 mai 2010 - 04:25 .

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

You guys can't be serious. You are alright with continuing a story/romance with a new character? Wouldn't you rather have some closure before moving on to new things?

BINGO! Thats precisely my main point with any DA2 or future DA game. Romancing Morrigan with another new PC at this point would just feel cheap. To me, it would just seem like cashing in on Morrigan as a character while ignoring a large chunk of the 1st game. Never mind the fact that playing as a new character and meeting Morrigan all over again would be repetitive- most likely we'd have to go through the whole game with her again only to get suckered into the tragic ending....again. Either that or they would alter Morrigan's character so drastically to keep things fresh for the new PC that it wouldn't seem like Morrigan anymore, or they just make her the villain. Having a new PC romance Morrigan or really for me, have to deal with the results of the Warden's actions with Morrigan would really suck, to put it bluntly.

Again, I'll bring it back to KOTOR-KOTOR2; KOTOR1 ended well enough with closure for Revan. And I would have been fine with KOTOR2 being just about the Exile, but of course they've got to dredge up Revan and throw the Exile on the Ebon Hawk with no explanation as to why Revan isn't there. And then of course now, we'll likely never get a satisfying conclusion to Revan's story, when it wasended just fine in KOTOR1.

My point with bringing up KOTOR is that for the Morri romancing Warden, he didn't even get the closure we sought at the end of DAO that Revan got at the end of KOTOR1. And to just drop the Warden and move on to some new Epic Hero of Thedas when there are still pretty glaring loose ends? Its just that until the Warden's story gets some closure and sense of finality to it, to me it would be difficult to move on to a new PC without thinking what the hell is my old Warden doing?

blademaster7 wrote...

Who's to say that DA2 won't have the same BS? New, characters, new romances... and in the end the same crappy ending with so many questions that will remain un-answered, and your PC feeling like a total idiot for making the "right" decisions. Moving from an un-finished game to another is not something I'm particularly fond of. If this is the formula they plan on using then I'm back to shooters.

Right on- to me, thats my fear, reasonable or unreasonable as it may be. Thats why when I see the DLC like Darkspawn chronicles or the Feastday Gifts its all "meh" I appreciate that its out there for those that want it, but Bioware games to me have always been story 1st. Even with Awakening, it wasn't bad but expansion or not, it didn't hold a candle to Origins, in story or characters. So to just run off and start a new story with new characters in a likely new area or new time period? I'd be reluctant to do so, when they've kind of left the Warden out to dry.

I mean isn't the whole point behind the Dark Ritual that not only Morrigan gets the OGB but the Warden survives and lives to fight another day? It would just be disappointing if the Warden gets dumped for some new hero with little to no explanation beyond "He vanished!" or "Oh he got killed in a freak nug wrangling accident" or " A giant boulder crushed him while looking for Morrigan!"

I really have no doubt Morrigan will return in some capacity. Its the Warden side of things that worries me. Just plunking down a new Epic Hero of Thedas to deal with the whole Morrigan mess my Warden created or by just ignoring that would really sour future DA games for me. I know that not every DAO player loved Morrigan or anything but I mean come on, Morrigan is really the only big loose end from Origins and if you romanced her, unlike the other romances which at least got closure, the Warden gets a swift kick in the balls with the closing of the Morrigan romance. To just never hear from the Warden again after that? Weak, Bioware very weak indeed.

The problem is that not everyone had their Warden or Alistair/loghain do the dark ritual.

I'm all for making DR canon so we can have our Warden chase down Morri, but to do that would ****** off at least half the playerbase.

I don't think anyone can deny that the god child story has a lot of potential, but I can also understand why Bioware may be reluctant to pursue that.

For me making DR canon would be a sensible thing to do, but I'm not the person who needs to deal with the consequences of such a decision.

David said that he hates to leave story threads hanging and is aware of the interest in seeing Morrigan and the god child story play out.
We should accept that as assurance that Bioware is aware of what we want and may to something about it in the future.

For now, all we can do is hope and wait.

[Addai]

Master Shiori wrote...

The problem is that not everyone had their Warden or Alistair/loghain do the dark ritual.

I'm all for making DR canon so we can have our Warden chase down Morri, but to do that would ****** off at least half the playerbase.

I don't know if I'd say it's half.  A few people are attached to the idea of letting Loghain redeem himself by killing the archdemon.  (I believe I recall that Mr. Gaider even said this was his favorite resolution??)  Some would feel strongly that their favorite Warden would never do anything so shady.  But are these people really the ones most interested in seeing the story of their particular Warden continue?  I would think that those of us who are most passionately interested in resolution are the ones who romanced Alistair or Morrigan.  Naturally the Leliana and Zevran fans also want to see their stories continue, but the DR is not so central to those.

[Master Shiori]

Addai67 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

The problem is that not everyone had their Warden or Alistair/loghain do the dark ritual.

I'm all for making DR canon so we can have our Warden chase down Morri, but to do that would ****** off at least half the playerbase.

I don't know if I'd say it's half.  A few people are attached to the idea of letting Loghain redeem himself by killing the archdemon.  (I believe I recall that Mr. Gaider even said this was his favorite resolution??)  Some would feel strongly that their favorite Warden would never do anything so shady.  But are these people really the ones most interested in seeing the story of their particular Warden continue?  I would think that those of us who are most passionately interested in resolution are the ones who romanced Alistair or Morrigan.  Naturally the Leliana and Zevran fans also want to see their stories continue, but the DR is not so central to those.

I hope you're right.

I want nothing more then to see my Warden reunited with Morrigan and the whole god child story explored in detail.

Still, after reading mr Gaider's comments I'm setting myself up for a potential disapointment by expecting DA2 to move on to an entirely new story and hero.
I pray that I'm wrong and that we'll actually get a satisfying conclusion...

[Brockololly]

Addai67 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

The problem is that not everyone had their Warden or Alistair/loghain do the dark ritual.

I'm all for making DR canon so we can have our Warden chase down Morri, but to do that would ****** off at least half the playerbase.

I don't know if I'd say it's half.  A few people are attached to the idea of letting Loghain redeem himself by killing the archdemon.  (I believe I recall that Mr. Gaider even said this was his favorite resolution??)  Some would feel strongly that their favorite Warden would never do anything so shady.  But are these people really the ones most interested in seeing the story of their particular Warden continue?  I would think that those of us who are most passionately interested in resolution are the ones who romanced Alistair or Morrigan.  Naturally the Leliana and Zevran fans also want to see their stories continue, but the DR is not so central to those.

I'd imagine that Bioware knows the numbers of people who did certain things based on the feedback that gets sent to them automatically if you're logged in when you play.

I remember Gaider mentioning how he likes the Loghain as redeeemer ending and its a good ending for Origins. The only problem is that at least compared to the DR, it doesn't offer much in the way of a future plot to explore. But like David mentioned yesterday, whatever DA2 deals with there is a good chance it will be something none of us have thought of as we're just going off of what Origins presented us story wise. So in that case, maybe the DR isn't that important- its just that given what we know now, its hard to see how it wouldn't be.

As much as I like Morrigan though I also really like all the other romance-able characters too. I'd just be disappointed to see the characters of Origins swept aside or given Awakening like cameo treatments in DA2. Obviously having such contiinuity could be difficult and inevitably some players will be let down, but to just ditch the Warden and most everything from Origins seems like a bit of a cop out to me.

I've said it many times before but the reason BG2 and ToB were so awesome was because you had continuity with the PC and the companions. Thats why I have such fond memories of those games- not necessarily the world, combat or overarching story even. Its about the characters. And to build up one's emotional engagement with the characters of Origins only ditch them for a new crew over and over again in games that lack continuity besides staying in the same world gets old fast IMO.

Thats not to say Bioware can't make a good series of standalone games, but retaining  continuity and a sense of consequences for the PC's actions between games is a really potent way to keep players interested and engaged- just look at Mass Effect. Otherwise if you just pump out a new DA game each year thats only marginally connected to each other, all you've done is make a fantasy based Madden game- each new game might have a new story but it will basically just be a roster update each year- just plop in the new crew and new setting a voila! You've got your DA 2011, DA2012 and so on.

Modifié par Brockololly, 11 mai 2010 - 05:23 .

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

The problem is that not everyone had their Warden or Alistair/loghain do the dark ritual.

I'm all for making DR canon so we can have our Warden chase down Morri, but to do that would ****** off at least half the playerbase.

I don't know if I'd say it's half.  A few people are attached to the idea of letting Loghain redeem himself by killing the archdemon.  (I believe I recall that Mr. Gaider even said this was his favorite resolution??)  Some would feel strongly that their favorite Warden would never do anything so shady.  But are these people really the ones most interested in seeing the story of their particular Warden continue?  I would think that those of us who are most passionately interested in resolution are the ones who romanced Alistair or Morrigan.  Naturally the Leliana and Zevran fans also want to see their stories continue, but the DR is not so central to those.

I'd imagine that Bioware knows the numbers of people who did certain things based on the feedback that gets sent to them automatically if you're logged in when you play.

I remember Gaider mentioning how he likes the Loghain as redeeemer ending and its a good ending for Origins. The only problem is that at least compared to the DR, it doesn't offer much in the way of a future plot to explore. But like David mentioned yesterday, whatever DA2 deals with there is a good chance it will be something none of us have thought of as we're just going off of what Origins presented us story wise. So in that case, maybe the DR isn't that important- its just that given what we know now, its hard to see how it wouldn't be.

As much as I like Morrigan though I also really like all the other romance-able characters too. I'd just be disappointed to see the characters of Origins swept aside or given Awakening like cameo treatments in DA2. Obviously having such contiinuity could be difficult and inevitably some players will be let down, but to just ditch the Warden and most everything from Origins seems like a bit of a cop out to me.

I've said it many times before but the reason BG2 and ToB were so awesome was because you had continuity with the PC and the companions. Thats why I have such fond memories of those games- not necessarily the world, combat or overarching story even. Its about the characters. And to build up one's emotional engagement with the characters of Origins only ditch them for a new crew over and over again in games that lack continuity besides staying in the same world gets old fast IMO.

Thats not to say Bioware can't make a good series of standalone games, but retaining  continuity and a sense of consequences for the PC's actions between games is a really potent way to keep players interested and engaged- just look at Mass Effect. Otherwise if you just pump out a new DA game each year thats only marginally connected to each other, all you've done is make a fantasy based Madden game- each new game might have a new story but it will basically just be a roster update each year- just plop in the new crew and new setting a voila! You've got your DA 2011, DA2012 and so on.

Well said Brock.

I for one would like to see some continuity between DA titles.

Starting with a clean slate every once in a while would be good but doing it in every single game wouldn't hold much apeal.

[RogueWriter3201]

Brockololly wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

*snip*

*snip*

Again, I'll bring it back to KOTOR-KOTOR2; KOTOR1 ended well enough with closure for Revan. And I would have been fine with KOTOR2 being just about the Exile, but of course they've got to dredge up Revan and throw the Exile on the Ebon Hawk with no explanation as to why Revan isn't there. And then of course now, we'll likely never get a satisfying conclusion to Revan's story, when it wasended just fine in KOTOR1.

My point with bringing up KOTOR is that for the Morri romancing Warden, he didn't even get the closure we sought at the end of DAO that Revan got at the end of KOTOR1. And to just drop the Warden and move on to some new Epic Hero of Thedas when there are still pretty glaring loose ends? Its just that until the Warden's story gets some closure and sense of finality to it, to me it would be difficult to move on to a new PC without thinking what the hell is my old Warden doing?

blademaster7 wrote...

*snip*

*snip*

After reading Mr. Gaider's response to this thread, and the subsequent responses from everyone, I wanted to throw in my Two Cents and also take a second to show my Star Wars Geek-side and clarify some points. First, the KotOR stuff:

Yes, in comparison to KotOR, The Sith Lords fell short in regards to the well flushed out plot. However, the blame for that can not be laid at BioWare's feet. Though BioWare wrote the overall Story and Character plots for The Sith Lords, it was Obsidian Entertainment -BioWare's kid sister- that did all the programming for the game. Sadly, during production, the Programmers fell short of time trying to tweek and make some bug fixes and when Lucasarts came calling for thier Game to release in time for the Holidays, Obsidian put the game out incomplete. Given that this thread is mostly made up of some really talented Modders, you should know that a Restoration Mod for the Sith Lords exsists which returns much of the game's original content.

Between the restored content, and those files that could not be modded back into the game, far greater depth for the characters are revealed, as well as some further information given by Kreia (the game's Anti-Obi Wan) concerning the choice of Revan to pursue the True Sith to thier isolated corner of the Far Regions. Resolution to Revan's story will be had in BioWare's The Old Republic MMO, especially given that BioWare has gone out of thier way to Canonize the Male Revan Light Side story. Sorry to those who played Revan as a woman or the Bad guy. And, Yes, the TOR forum has all the info, and it's acutally *much* easier to find thanks to stickies like the "Most Talked About Subjects..." thread.

Now, as to the Gaider response? Well, I've grown accustomed to Mr. Gaider sort of 'Going against the Grain," as it were when it comes to what the fans want. Truth is, he's a brillaint writer. Sadly, sometimes that can mean that he's "So" brilliant, he doesn't much care for what the Fans want, but rather what he sees as the better story. It's a sad comparison, but it reminds me of an interview with Kevin Costner when he was asked why he hasn't done any movies that have been successful like Dances With Wolves or other Blockbusters; his response to his choice of films was, "I do the Roles that I want to do, not the ones that you want me to do." Mr. Gaider, like any talented writer, pretty much falls into the same mindset. It hasn't worked out for Costner, hopefully Gaider won't fall into the same Hole.  

When it comes down to it, I want my Warden to return and continue his journey. Yes, I understand that the mindset for DA was to follow a game plan much akin to Neverwinter Nights, i.e. new Hero and new locations for every game while having said Hero and games touch upon one another through Lore and Plot elements. However, Neverwinters Nights released in a much different gaming period, where stand-alone titles were still somewhat the Norm. Now, we've entered into an Era where the 'Holy Trinity' or 'Trilogy' rather is prefered so as to gain a real sense of the Hero's Journey and a sense of completion. Though the Story of DA:O was Epic, it still fell short of resolving all the plot elements, and though some questions were answered in Awakenings, many still remain and not all of them have to do with Morrigan.

In the end, the choice of how to procede with the DA Saga will rest with BioWare; and if they so choose to have the Warden's Journey come to a close before DA:2 I will be dissapointed. I'm sure BioWare will none the less give us an incredible new story and characters, but none the less there will remain this eternal sense of incompletion, and such a thing I feel is doing a great disservice to thier Fans despite BioWare having done so much to please said fans, i.e. Tali Zorah. I don't know what the future holds for our Grey Warden, we can only hope that Mr. Gaider does not choose to emulate the Lead Writer/Creator of the Sopranos and give the fan-base one giant Fade to Black, cue Middle Finger.

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

The problem is that not everyone had their Warden or Alistair/loghain do the dark ritual.

I'm all for making DR canon so we can have our Warden chase down Morri, but to do that would ****** off at least half the playerbase.

I don't know if I'd say it's half.  A few people are attached to the idea of letting Loghain redeem himself by killing the archdemon.  (I believe I recall that Mr. Gaider even said this was his favorite resolution??)  Some would feel strongly that their favorite Warden would never do anything so shady.  But are these people really the ones most interested in seeing the story of their particular Warden continue?  I would think that those of us who are most passionately interested in resolution are the ones who romanced Alistair or Morrigan.  Naturally the Leliana and Zevran fans also want to see their stories continue, but the DR is not so central to those.

I'd imagine that Bioware knows the numbers of people who did certain things based on the feedback that gets sent to them automatically if you're logged in when you play.

I remember Gaider mentioning how he likes the Loghain as redeeemer ending and its a good ending for Origins. The only problem is that at least compared to the DR, it doesn't offer much in the way of a future plot to explore. But like David mentioned yesterday, whatever DA2 deals with there is a good chance it will be something none of us have thought of as we're just going off of what Origins presented us story wise. So in that case, maybe the DR isn't that important- its just that given what we know now, its hard to see how it wouldn't be.

As much as I like Morrigan though I also really like all the other romance-able characters too. I'd just be disappointed to see the characters of Origins swept aside or given Awakening like cameo treatments in DA2. Obviously having such contiinuity could be difficult and inevitably some players will be let down, but to just ditch the Warden and most everything from Origins seems like a bit of a cop out to me.

I've said it many times before but the reason BG2 and ToB were so awesome was because you had continuity with the PC and the companions. Thats why I have such fond memories of those games- not necessarily the world, combat or overarching story even. Its about the characters. And to build up one's emotional engagement with the characters of Origins only ditch them for a new crew over and over again in games that lack continuity besides staying in the same world gets old fast IMO.

Thats not to say Bioware can't make a good series of standalone games, but retaining  continuity and a sense of consequences for the PC's actions between games is a really potent way to keep players interested and engaged- just look at Mass Effect. Otherwise if you just pump out a new DA game each year thats only marginally connected to each other, all you've done is make a fantasy based Madden game- each new game might have a new story but it will basically just be a roster update each year- just plop in the new crew and new setting a voila! You've got your DA 2011, DA2012 and so on.

The problem with having a new setting, new companions and a new hero for each title is that people will again become attached to them and want to see them carry on in new games.
In Origins this were Morrigan, Alistair, Leliana and Zevran and ofc our Wardens.
In DA2 we'll likely meet new npcs that we'll love and want to continue adventuring with in future games. Imagine the reaction when it turns out we'll be starting with a clean slate for DA3 and all our previous choices, romances or unresolved plot threads get thrown out the window.

Tying up lose ends and giving players a sense of closure is needed if this kind of policy is to succed. Otherwise you risk disappointing people again and again and will ultimately either lose fans or make it so they won't really care about what they're playing since nothing they do will have a lasting consequence.

[blademaster7]

I never played KOTOR before. Can someone enlighten me please?

Are you guys saying that they did this before? They end the game with a big "cliffhanger" to hook the fans and hype them for the next release only to throw everything away and give you a new adventure? Because... ya know it's easier this way, and people are gonna get disappointed anyyway.
Is this the kind of bull**** we should expect?

Modifié par blademaster7, 11 mai 2010 - 08:13 .

[Der Kirk]

I don't think we should automatically assume bioware is going to screw us just because of he whole Revan thing. No expectations at all would be better, and much more reasonable considering the fact that there have been some awesome things (Mass Effects Shepard continuity) and some not-so-awesome things (Revan getting tossed).

[Master Shiori]

blademaster7 wrote...

I never played KOTOR before. Can someone enlighten me please?

Are you guys saying that they did this before? They end the game with a big "cliffhanger" to hook the fans and hype them for the next release only to throw everything away and give you a new adventure? Because... ya know it's easier this way, and people are gonna get disappointed anyyway.
Is this the kind of bull**** we should expect?

They didn't leave us hanging in KOTOR 1.

Kotor 1 was a story of Revan and it had a proper conclusion (saving the galaxy and your LI if light side or becoming the Lord of the Sith and keeping your LI as an apprentice if dark side).
There were no cliffhangers left at the end.

Kotor 2 however gave us a new hero and had Revan disappear for unknown reason, kind of like the Warden at the end of Awakening. So at the end of Kotor 2 our new pc, "Exile", leaves in search of Revan. This was the cliffhanger that got everyone pissed, especially since the story was supposed to continue in Kotor 3, which never came out.

That, however, wasn't Bioware's fault since they only developed Kotor1, which was perfectly fine.

Obsidian Ent. were the ones behind Kotor 2 and, what is now considered to be, the epic cliffhanger which sent many fans (myself included) into a beserk rage.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 11 mai 2010 - 08:29 .

[Barbarossa2010]

Well isn't that just dandy.  I'm away for just over 24 hours and that's when Gaider pipes in!  That sounds about par for the course with me and Dragon Age.

Nothing new in Gaider's response, same old expectation management and elusive non-committal comments.  OK David Got it.  Same old: your expectation may need adjustment.  I'm not sure what everyone expected him to say. There's really nothing to read between the lines about.  He committed to nothing and never will regarding the future for players that are part of such a thread as this.  He's the lead writer and cannot tip his hand about anything.  I love the game, but hated the Ritual as presented.  My position, (and I'll just seak for myself here), hasn't changed and won't, but I am glad to see that he stopped by.  But, as I said nothing he said will suppress my consumer instinct.

BTW, whoever asked him about fixing bugs, well...all I'll say is that there are such things as stupid questions.  Please don't believe your parents about that.

David can only talk down our expectations, whether for sincere reasons because they know they're going in another direction or to keep us off balance because he and the developers have something pleasant in mind.  It's what he does for a living; he can't tip his hand.  Remember Morrigan got her evasiveness during the DR from somewhere.

But to be called myopic...well I don't follow that at all when talking to a consumer market.  It's not mypoic to have expectations of a product that one paid for, which happen to be reasonable (without regurgitating the ugly details), and expect (or lobby) the company developing that product to meet them.  It's fine if they don't want to meet those expectations because it doesn't match the developers vision of things, but don't call someone myopic for being a consumer with expectations, especially in an interactive story.  This is not a book and this is not a movie.  This is a video game that rquires about 60-80 in-game hours to fully expereince.  Players have earned their expectations, no matter what they are. 

People WILL have a game in their head, especially the more choice given them in a story.  To  pooh pooh away their expections is a non-starter for me.  There is a responsibility to the consumer outside the vision and artistic expression of the developer.  People are paying for that development.  Otherwise you're merely establishing an MO that every game will be the same dead end or sour note for a certain player base, at the whim of the developer and this is the way it is, take it or leave it.  It will really not be worth continuing with such a franchise only to get the same sour end over and over again if you choose to romance X or Y.  It's not like the player does anything wrong, as in Shepard dying during the Suicide Mission becasue he was ill-prepared for combat.  So hammering the player for no real good reason just makes no sense from a purely business perspective.  Of course I could be in the minority not having access to the data derived from the DA servers, so I truly am only speaking for myself here.

If "take it or leave it" is the model for the future, honestly I'm OK with it.  I would just like to know to save the time and effort in trying to lobby for repair of something I think is broken in a product I purchased.
 
I'm OK with Gaider, at least he is non-committal and as evasive as the character he created.  He's a great fiction writer.  Just don't expect any real answers from him.  And when he interjects into a "specialty" thread such as this, just brace yourselves to be told nothing meaningful to a constituency looking for such specific answers such as ours, and to be lectured about preparing youselves for disappoinment.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 11 mai 2010 - 08:44 .

[Barbarossa2010]

A little more:

Regarding several posts above on DA2, I will not be purchasing it until the boards light up after issue.  The DR was so poorly presented that it nearly ruined my entire first RPG experience and I nearly left the RPG fold before even really joining it.  But at the urging of a few of the players on this thread, I'm still a curious bystander and am willing to give BW another shot.  Of course I got Awakenings for my patience, but that's another story.  Sorry, but there are other players out here than fanatics, and I'll warrant that number is not insignificant. 

If my expectations (which will not change) are too unrealistic for Dark Fantasy or for Bioware, please say so, so I don't continue wasting my time in some damn futile effort to affect needed (IMO) change in a game I largely enjoyed but soured on in the end, due to what I perceived as contrived story elements.  To be honest, that's what David does actually seem to be saying, but like Morrigan's Ritual, you really don't know what to believe. 

All I'll say is that ugly. hanging plot threads and feeling sour at the end of an 80 hour effort is not what I, and I'll bet most players, play video games for.  Of course, "sour" is in the eyes of the beholder, but I don't think I'm alone in this one judging from many posts I've read.  The DR (as presented) would work maybe for a book or even a movie, but for an interactive video game...when I'm playing the main character, well for me it just felt like a slap across the face.

As such, I won't be participating in another "Dark Ritual."  I take my games pretty serious, as it is my "me time" pastime and that is a dwindling resource in my life due to other committments.  Now if someone were just able to come out and say that the standard MO is that most attractive LI is always to be the nasty plot hook, that would be fair warning for the less fanatical contingent or even new RPG players, so we might avert ending a 60-80 hour effort on flat note by avoiding the things that will sink our story, or perhaps avoiding the game altogether and waiting for a more preferred product.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 11 mai 2010 - 08:50 .

[tom2504]

blademaster7 wrote...

You guys can't be serious. You are
alright with continuing a story/romance with a new character? Wouldn't
you rather have some closure before moving on to new things?

DAO
was a game with a half-assed ending for me.  I finished the game and
instead of getting the feeling of accomplishment I felt like a chump.
Die, let someone else die and overshadow you or let the plot hammer of
doom smack you in the head and get an ending with no closure whatsoever.

Who's
to say that DA2 won't have the same BS? New, characters, new
romances... and in the end the same crappy ending with so many questions
that will remain un-answered, and your PC feeling like a total idiot
for making the "right" decisions. Moving from an un-finished game to
another is not something I'm particularly fond of. If this is the
formula they plan on using then I'm back to shooters.

I don't
really care about romance continuation(hell, I may be the only one
around here lol). I just want some freeaking closure before I'm ready to
see the DA universe from a different perspective. It could be tragedy
or death for all I care. At least is better than the "Morrigan
disappears(DAO)" and "Warden disappears right behind her(DAA)" BS we
have to content with.

Spot on again, and I certainly agree with the guy who said this Gaider fellow was 'letting us down easy now' as oppose to letting us in for huge disappointment later (that was the jist of it anyway). On the other hand it could be vise versa, doesn't matter either way. Although;

Dragon Age 2 Isn't in the list of Claudia Black's up-coming filmopgraphy ( http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0085227/ )

That could give some insight I suppose?

Modifié par tom2504, 11 mai 2010 - 08:55 .

[Brockololly]

glenboy24 wrote...

Between the restored content, and those files that could not be modded back into the game, far greater depth for the characters are revealed, as well as some further information given by Kreia (the game's Anti-Obi Wan) concerning the choice of Revan to pursue the True Sith to thier isolated corner of the Far Regions. Resolution to Revan's story will be had in BioWare's The Old Republic MMO, especially given that BioWare has gone out of thier way to Canonize the Male Revan Light Side story.

Not to derail this into a KOTOR thread, but I quite enjoyed KOTOR2 for what it was- cut content and all. My issue with it was that KOTOR1 gave Revan a fine ending and then in KOTOR2 they dragged him back into it with a big mystery as to what he was doing and thats never going to be resolved in a single player KOTOR3. I know we'll get the MMO where they might explain it, but besides the fact that I loathe MMOs, you won't be playing as Revan and TOR takes place hundreds of years after the events of KOTOR. Thats what I'd worry we'll get in DA- not an MMO, but they fast forward the plot or otherwise jump around leaving incomplete plot threads and ditching characters that seemingly still have room to grow in favor of something new and shiny.

glenboy24 wrote...

When it comes down to it, I want my Warden to return and continue his journey. Yes, I understand that the mindset for DA was to follow a game plan much akin to Neverwinter Nights, i.e. new Hero and new locations for every game while having said Hero and games touch upon one another through Lore and Plot elements. However, Neverwinters Nights released in a much different gaming period, where stand-alone titles were still somewhat the Norm. Now, we've entered into an Era where the 'Holy Trinity' or 'Trilogy' rather is prefered so as to gain a real sense of the Hero's Journey and a sense of completion. Though the Story of DA:O was Epic, it still fell short of resolving all the plot elements, and though some questions were answered in Awakenings, many still remain and not all of them have to do with Morrigan.

Totally agree with you here. ME brought many new people into the fold with RPGs, as did DAO and  one of the things that almost everyone loves about ME is how you've got a sense of continuity between the games. I'm not necessarily expecting exact continuity between titles, but like you said, Neverwinter Nights worked for what it was in large part because it was mostly marketed not on the single player game but the toolset. For DAO to exist as just a standalone game with only tenuous threads linking Origins to DA2 would be a massive disappointment. And like you mentioned, its not just the unresolved Morrigan/Warden stuff, theres more to do as the Warden worthy of a sequel IMO.

Basically if Origins just had some more closure, I'd be fine with moving on. But as it exists now, for BIoware to just go on to something else would leave me quite disappointed- not unlike when I heard about how we'll likely never get a KOTOR3. Maybe they'll wrap up the Warden's story in an ex-pack or something, but given how Awakening was released, I can't imagine an ex-pack to complete the Warden's tale would be the sort of polished product I expect from Bioware.

Master Shiori wrote...

Tying up lose ends and giving players a sense of closure is needed if
this kind of policy is to succed. Otherwise you risk disappointing
people again and again and will ultimately either lose fans or make it
so they won't really care about what they're playing since nothing they
do will have a lasting consequence.

Right- If Bioware wants DA to be a massive franchise that goes for years and years, they've got to end the game well. The cuts to the DR and that sort of thing do not exactly let the player who romanced Morrigan end the game feeling satisfied or with a sense of closure. Origins for the most part does indeed end well in  broad strokes- you beat the Blight, Ferelden is saved- but it baits the player with so many unresolved questions, most notably Morrigan, that if those plot threads are not picked up in the near future, their inclusion at the end of Origins feels like a cheap way to keep players interested in the next game. Again, it comes down to the characters for me- honestly, woohoo I saved Ferelden big deal, its not like that was ever in doubt so long as I finished the game. Its the fates of the characters thats interesting to me, so if those unresolved plot threads are never picked up again in the future or just brushed aside, my ability to enjoy future DA games will be greatly diminished, knowing that the characters will just become a yearly roster update with the next game and no lasting consequences or sense of closure.

[Brockololly]

tom2504 wrote...

Spot on again, and I certainly agree with the guy who said this Gaider fellow was 'letting us down easy now' as oppose to letting us in for huge disappointment later (that was the jist of it anyway). On the other hand it could be vise versa, doesn't matter either way. Although;

Dragon Age 2 Isn't in the list of Claudia Black's up-coming filmopgraphy ( http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0085227/ )

That could give some insight I suppose?

Ultimately like Barbarossa mentioned above, seeing as DA2 hasn't been officially announced or anything yet, you can;t really read too much into anything Gaider or any dev might post. Maybe he's trying to lower our expectations or maybe not - we'll just have to wait and see.

As far as DA2 not being on Claudia Black's imdb page- yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about that quite yet.

[Axekix]

tom2504 wrote...
Spot on again, and I certainly agree with the guy who said this Gaider fellow was 'letting us down easy now' as oppose to letting us in for huge disappointment later (that was the jist of it anyway). On the other hand it could be vise versa, doesn't matter either way. Although;

Dragon Age 2 Isn't in the list of Claudia Black's up-coming filmopgraphy ( http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0085227/ )

That could give some insight I suppose?

Well since it hasn't been announced yet it's not really surprising it wouldn't show up there.  I mean, no actors are listed for DA2 yet, considering the title doesn't exist atm. 

The tone of Gaider's comments also suggest they're at a stage in production where things are still malleable to some degree, so I don't think all is lost.  Though the chances of us continuing our DAO warden do seem rather slim now.

I agree with what Addai67 posted above however.  Morrigan's storyline isn't one that strictly appeals to Morrigan fans.  The DR is a a huge plot twist in DAO, and some people who don't even like her still opt to do it (or persuade Alistair/Loghain etc).  It's really the most sensible option if you are truly commited to continuing your warden's story.  So I don't see moving forward with it as a large plot point being such an unreasonable idea. 

Honestly, I think I'd prefer a canonized DAO storyline (at least pertaining to the major events) if it would let us keep things cohesive between game releases.  That's the lesser of two "evils" so to speak in my mind if it comes down to a canon story vs an open ended one without resolution.  It will be difficult to truly commit to another DA game if the loose ends of DAO aren't properly addressed. 

Bioware has something really great here and I hope they continue to build on the foundation they've set.

[blademaster7]

Brockololly wrote...

Ultimately like Barbarossa mentioned above, seeing as DA2 hasn't been officially announced or anything yet, you can;t really read too much into anything Gaider or any dev might post. Maybe he's trying to lower our expectations or maybe not - we'll just have to wait and see.

As far as DA2 not being on Claudia Black's imdb page- yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about that quite yet.

Of course he's trying to lower the expectations of fans. Better to shoot them down now rather than let them hope and disappoint them later.

We were discussing a possible continuation of the Warden and Morrigan and Gaider pops out of nowhere(in the Morrigan thread of all places) to say that they cannot please everyone, and that no matter what they do some fans will end up disappointed. Yeah... it doesn't take a genious to figure out what he was trying to say...

They have been working on DA for how long now? Five-six years? Let's face it. Everything is probably set in stone by now.

I don't think we asked for something unreasonable here. No one asked to take Morrigan with him and get a house with a picket fence and live happily ever after. We just some closure, but apparently we will never get it.

Modifié par blademaster7, 11 mai 2010 - 10:13 .

[tom2504]

blademaster7 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Ultimately like Barbarossa mentioned above, seeing as DA2 hasn't been officially announced or anything yet, you can;t really read too much into anything Gaider or any dev might post. Maybe he's trying to lower our expectations or maybe not - we'll just have to wait and see.

As far as DA2 not being on Claudia Black's imdb page- yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about that quite yet.

Of course he's trying to lower the expectations of fans. Better to shoot them down now rather than let them hope and disappoint them later.

We were discussing a possible continuation of the Warden and Morrigan and Gaider pops out of nowhere(in the Morrigan thread of all places) to say that they cannot please everyone, and that no matter what they do some fans will end up disappointed. Yeah... it doesn't take a genious to figure out what he was trying to say...

They have been working on DA for how long now? Five-six years? Let's face it. Everything is probably set in stone by now.

I don't think we asked for something unreasonable here. No one asked to take Morrigan with him and get a house with a picket fence and live happily ever after. We just some closure, but apparently we will never get it.

Indeed. Not to mention he claimed that his opinion of those being unable or unwilling to accept a completely brand new storyline was myopic (which to us normal people means shortsighted, in other words;  we're too focused on one storyline continuing and unable to see potential for brand new future ones). But I disagree strongly as has been said many times by many people. If the DR/Morrigan/Baby-god story has no relevance to future DAO's then It's similar to having Lord of the Rings Fellowship without a sequel, a chocolate cake without the chocolate (you get it). It ended in such a way that discontinuing the original storyline  would be straight out mean, especially as there are a STRONG majority of people who are passionate about the Morrigan story (daring use of wording there), more so than those who aren't.

Give the people what they want!

[Addai]

I don't envy Bioware writers this task, however. It's much easier to give a story a good start than to give it a good, satisfying ending, let alone when so many variables are involved.

[Terra_Ex]

blademaster7 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

I
mean isn't the whole point behind the Dark Ritual that not only
Morrigan gets the OGB but the Warden survives and lives to fight another
day? It would just be disappointing if the Warden gets dumped for some
new hero with little to no explanation beyond "He vanished!" or "Oh he
got killed in a freak nug wrangling accident" or " A giant boulder
crushed him while looking for Morrigan!"

I like the boulder one. Hopefully, they will add it to the codex.

Sounds like a potential DLC to me, a fitting way to end the male romancing warden's story. Successfully completing the DLC allows the save to be imported into DA2, whereby the warden's end is added as a footnote to Morrigan's story.

Master Shiori wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

The problem is that not everyone had their Warden or Alistair/loghain do the dark ritual.

I'm all for making DR canon so we can have our Warden chase down Morri, but to do that would ****** off at least half the playerbase.

I don't know if I'd say it's half.  A few people are attached to the idea of letting Loghain redeem himself by killing the archdemon.  (I believe I recall that Mr. Gaider even said this was his favorite resolution??)  Some would feel strongly that their favorite Warden would never do anything so shady.  But are these people really the ones most interested in seeing the story of their particular Warden continue?  I would think that those of us who are most passionately interested in resolution are the ones who romanced Alistair or Morrigan.  Naturally the Leliana and Zevran fans also want to see their stories continue, but the DR is not so central to those.

I'd imagine that Bioware knows the numbers of people who did certain things based on the feedback that gets sent to them automatically if you're logged in when you play.

I remember Gaider mentioning how he likes the Loghain as redeeemer ending and its a good ending for Origins. The only problem is that at least compared to the DR, it doesn't offer much in the way of a future plot to explore. But like David mentioned yesterday, whatever DA2 deals with there is a good chance it will be something none of us have thought of as we're just going off of what Origins presented us story wise. So in that case, maybe the DR isn't that important- its just that given what we know now, its hard to see how it wouldn't be.

As much as I like Morrigan though I also really like all the other romance-able characters too. I'd just be disappointed to see the characters of Origins swept aside or given Awakening like cameo treatments in DA2. Obviously having such contiinuity could be difficult and inevitably some players will be let down, but to just ditch the Warden and most everything from Origins seems like a bit of a cop out to me.

I've said it many times before but the reason BG2 and ToB were so awesome was because you had continuity with the PC and the companions. Thats why I have such fond memories of those games- not necessarily the world, combat or overarching story even. Its about the characters. And to build up one's emotional engagement with the characters of Origins only ditch them for a new crew over and over again in games that lack continuity besides staying in the same world gets old fast IMO.

Thats not to say Bioware can't make a good series of standalone games, but retaining  continuity and a sense of consequences for the PC's actions between games is a really potent way to keep players interested and engaged- just look at Mass Effect. Otherwise if you just pump out a new DA game each year thats only marginally connected to each other, all you've done is make a fantasy based Madden game- each new game might have a new story but it will basically just be a roster update each year- just plop in the new crew and new setting a voila! You've got your DA 2011, DA2012 and so on.

The problem with having a new setting, new companions and a new hero for each title is that people will again become attached to them and want to see them carry on in new games.
In Origins this were Morrigan, Alistair, Leliana and Zevran and ofc our Wardens.
In DA2 we'll likely meet new npcs that we'll love and want to continue adventuring with in future games. Imagine the reaction when it turns out we'll be starting with a clean slate for DA3 and all our previous choices, romances or unresolved plot threads get thrown out the window.

Tying up lose ends and giving players a sense of closure is needed if this kind of policy is to succed. Otherwise you risk disappointing people again and again and will ultimately either lose fans or make it so they won't really care about what they're playing since nothing they do will have a lasting consequence.

Precisely why I feel Bioware should stick to various "arcs" spanning multiple games within a particular age in Thedas - ending each one conclusivley ala Throne of Bhaal, and then being free to move on to a different period. As it stands though, the budget allocated for an expansion simply will not be able to produce an expansion equalling the likes of Throne of Bhaal - production costs are ever escalating after all. Hence, I feel only a full blown sequel will satiate fans.

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
David can only talk down our expectations, whether
for sincere reasons because they know they're going in another direction
or to keep us off balance because he and the developers have something
pleasant in mind.  It's what he does for a living; he can't tip his
hand.  Remember Morrigan got her evasiveness during the DR from
somewhere.

But to be called myopic...well I don't follow that at
all when talking to a consumer market.  It's not mypoic to have
expectations of a product that one paid for, which happen to
be reasonable (without regurgitating the ugly details), and expect (or
lobby) the company developing that product to meet them.  It's fine if
they don't want to meet those expectations because it doesn't match the
developers vision of things, but don't call someone myopic for being a
consumer with expectations, especially in an interactive story.  This is
not a book and this is not a movie.  This is a video game that rquires
about 60-80 in-game hours to fully expereince.  Players have earned
their expectations, no matter what they are. 

People WILL
have a game in their head, especially the more choice given them in a
story.  To  pooh pooh away their expections is a non-starter for me. 
There is a responsibility to the consumer outside the vision and
artistic expression of the developer.  People are paying for that
development.  Otherwise you're merely establishing an MO that every game
will be the same dead end or sour note for a certain player base, at
the whim of the developer and this is the way it is, take it or leave
it.  It will really not be worth continuing with such a franchise only
to get the same sour end over and over again if you choose to romance X
or Y.  It's not like the player does anything wrong, as in Shepard dying
during the Suicide Mission becasue he was ill-prepared for combat.  So
hammering the player for no real good reason just makes no sense from a
purely business perspective. 

 

I'm with you here, Bioware should at the very least give some closure, and the sad thing is its almost begging for scraps at this point. In terms of cuts, plot hammers and bugs Morri got hit the hardest. - Dark Ritual - cut down, complete misrepresentaion of her character from what was originally intended. Her break up lines - bugged so she always appears as an indifferent cold hearted witch. Epilogue slides - bugged. I could go on, but you get the point. Compared to all the other characters, there is just nothing resembling any sort of a resolution.

tom2504 wrote...

But I disagree strongly as has been said
many times by many people. If the DR/Morrigan/Baby-god story has no
relevance to future DAO's then It's similar to having Lord of the Rings
Fellowship without a sequel, a chocolate cake without the chocolate (you
get it). It ended in such a way that discontinuing the original
storyline  would be straight out mean, especially as there are a
STRONG majority of people who are passionate about the Morrigan story
(daring use of wording there), more so than those who aren't.

To drop the thread as it is now will in my mind go down as (another) dropped ball in terms of Bioware failing to wrap things by the game's end, as well as a final kick to Morri fans. As others have commented, how this is handled (or not) will decide whether some players will stick with DA in the future - irrespective of a character's non-presence in a future title, do we really want to risk subjecting ourselves to another 80hrs+ of highly immersive gaming only to be utterly let down in the end. The end of the game really does dictate your lasting impression of that title, particularly so in a game driven by player choice. I truly feel for any new players experiencing Morrigan's story for the first time - they're screwed by default, through no fault of their own.

Brock commented earlier that there should be some lasting purpose in the Warden's life being saat the end of DA:O. If the sole purpose of this was to appear in Awakening and presumably at least one more expansion, that would be disappointing. I'm hoping Bioware will give some meaning to his/her survival (presuming they go with this ending) and we will this come to fruition in a future title.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 11 mai 2010 - 11:55 .

[Swoo]

Master Shiori wrote...
They didn't leave us hanging in KOTOR 1.

Well, since we have people who have not played KOTOR in this thread (And shame on you, go get that! It is probably the best Star Wars story I have ever witnessed, and the big surprise in it floooored me, and I'm usually quick on picking that stuff up) I'll keep the spoilers to a minimum, but I believe the comparisons to KOTOR1 and DA are a little flawed.

In my view the Morrigan romance is equal to a certain Jedi-Sith romance late in the game. But instead of having the option they gave you to bring the person back and have the Happily Ever After cutscene, you basically free the person and then the Sith runs off, and you blow up the Star Crusher and the game ends with you running into Sith space hunting for the LI.

KOTOR2 already ticked me off for it's shoddy overall craftmanship, and I really took a punch when the LI showed up for the 20 second clip depressed and saying they had no clue where he(I) had gone, but if I had gotten that if KOTOR1 had ended on the note DA would have, I would have been done. Powered down the XBOX, sold the disc, and just drool over upcoming Blizzard RPGs instead.