16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Shiori]

I'm not sure they'd allow themselves to do leave loose ends in DA2, especially since topics like these clearly show what fans think about that.

On the other hand, if there already is a loose end from previous game then they owe it to everyone who payed for their product to get a closure.

None of us here can demand from Bioware to turn DA franchise into fantasy ME, but we do expect them to honor our choices by giving us a clear ending.

Morrigan's story could be continued in future titles with a new pc. We could get everything explained there. But such a move would make all the time we've spent playing Origins and our interaction, choices and romance with her seem like a waste. Sure, I guess I could accept that if Bioware really couldn't wrap my Warden's story properly for whatever reason, but atm we don't know if they're unable to do it or are simply unwilling to.

Personally, whether or not i get to see Morrigan again will be a big factor that could impact my decision of buying DA2 or simply skipping it. As much as I love my Warden, I love Morri more and expect Bioware to honor their promise to bring her back.
If the price I have to pay for that is to romance her again with a new pc, then that is what I'll do, provided I get a good explanation of why I can't reunite her with my old Warden.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 12 mai 2010 - 09:33 .

[blademaster7]

You really think she'd be a recruit-able companion? She is more likely to have an Arl Eamon-like relevance to the plot IMO.

And no offense Shiori but the notion of romancing Morrigan with another character is ridiculous. I wouldn't do it in a million years(I don't think it's a possibility but whatever). The same goes for Leliana/Zevran/Alistair, though, not to the same extent. Knowing that your old PC is somewhere out there looking for her --for God knows how many years-- and she goes ahead and finds another man, would be a stab in the kidneys. A nice follow up to the kick we got in the balls.


PS: Off topic here... Never try to solo Awakening.... damn.... I think that was my worst experience in this game ever....

Modifié par blademaster7, 12 mai 2010 - 09:57 .

[Master Shiori]

blademaster7 wrote...

You really think she'd be a recruit-able companion? She is more likely to have an Arl Eamon-like relevance to the plot IMO.

And no offense Shiori but the notion of romancing Morrigan with another character is ridiculous. I wouldn't do it in a million years(I don't think it's a possibility but whatever). The same goes for Leliana/Zevran/Alistair, though, not to the same extent. Knowing that your old PC is somewhere out there looking for her --for God knows how many years-- and she goes ahead and finds another man, would be a stab in the kidneys. A nice follow up to the kick we got in the balls.


PS: Off topic here... Never try to solo Awakening.... damn.... I think that was my worst experience in this game ever....

Not arguing that it's would be ridiculous, but Gaider's comments don't leave me with hope of ever finding Morri with my old Warden.

We don't know what will happen in DA2 or how much time will have passed since Origins. What if our Warden is long dead?

Personaly, I'd love nothing more then a reunion, but so far nothing that was said here makes me believe that'll ever happen.
They could very well bring her back. Sure, they could have her as unromancable npc that won't even talk about what went on in Origins, or they might let us chose to play as her kid.
Anything is possible here and I'm tossing out thoughts of what we might get in a worst case scenario.

Do I want to find her with my DA:O Warden? Apsolutely!!
Does that seem likely at this point? No.

Nothing we say or do here will make Bioware give us a closure we desire. If they truly cared about that they'd wrap it up in DA2 even if only as a side quest.
The only response we have is that they're aware of us wanting to tie a lose end and they MIGHT do something about it in the future. No promises that they WILL do it though.

[Barbarossa2010]

Brockololly wrote...

Or perhaps thats just me being shortsighted and I need to temper my expectations a bit

No, that's you being MYOPIC!

[Barbarossa2010]

Hey, I just heard that Gaider was the model for The Illusive Man.
It's true, I heard it on the internet.

[Addai]

I haven't played any of the games y'all are talking about. I don't even like Mass Effect, though I've tried to like it. I guess it seems obvious to me that people want closure to a story, even if it comes in some expository fashion rather than through actual roleplay.



Or maybe such closure will be deemed the province of fanfiction.

[Brockololly]

Master Shiori wrote...

Not arguing that it's would be ridiculous, but Gaider's comments don't leave me with hope of ever finding Morri with my old Warden.

We don't know what will happen in DA2 or how much time will have passed since Origins. What if our Warden is long dead?

Personaly, I'd love nothing more then a reunion, but so far nothing that was said here makes me believe that'll ever happen.

If you try to dissect some of Gaider's comments too closely you'll go crazy. So don't- I remember way before DAO came out the devs would say the same wishy-washy things regarding most everything about DAO.They were vague and ambiguous regarding whether Morrigan or Alistair would be romances or if their would be same-sex romances. Its just the nature of what they've got to do at this stage in development.

That said, at this stage we have no idea what may or may not be in DA2 or if there even is DA2. Nothing official has been announced other than the fact that something DA related will probably happen on 2/1/2011. Sadly, I won't be surprised if the Warden doesn't return and that'll make me quite skeptical towards purchasing DAO, but the devs know what people want- an excellent game. For me, an excellent DA2 would involve the Warden as PC and Morrigan as a LI- is that unreasonable? DOes such a hope not jive with making an "excellent game"? Am I just being MYOPIC?

Modifié par Brockololly, 12 mai 2010 - 03:19 .

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

For me, an excellent DA2 would involve the Warden as PC and Morrigan as a LI- is that unreasonable? DOes such a hope not jive with making an "excellent game"? Am I just being MYOPIC?

Considering these expectations are the result of epilogue slides from Origins and Awakening, I'd say they're perfectly justified.

I can understand Gaider's point that Bioware has the right to take the story in any direction they choose, but leaving unresolved plot points dangling isn't the best business practice.

Even if people may not care so much now (and I think they do care ALOT) they will start to care if this practice keeps repeating itself in every subsequent DA title.

These threads aren't the result of our wishfull thinking. They were made by writters themselves and it's only logical to expect they'll be adressed at some point.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 12 mai 2010 - 04:47 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Hey, I just heard that Gaider was the model for The Illusive Man.
It's true, I heard it on the internet.

I thought that was me.

Addai67 wrote...
Or maybe such closure will be deemed the province of fanfiction.

Oh please no.

[Terra_Ex]

Vicious wrote...

Post is terrible and I'm sorry, but my english is not so great.

As negative/pessimistic/skeptical as I may be now, if Bioware can answer 2 questions I'll gladly plunk down some $$$ for DA2- 1.) Is the Warden returning as the PC? 2.) Is Morrigan returning as a love interest?

No on the first, who knows on the second. But the Warden ain't coming back. Does that leave the story unfinished? Yes. But you fellas need to realize that the Warden

Might be with Leliana spelunking
Might be with Zevran adventuring
Might be with Alistair ruling
Might be with Anora ruling
Might be chasing Morrigan in Orlais.

Basically, by bringing the Warden back for DA2 they will inevitably disservice a good chunk of people. It's not even worth it, just so people can get some closure with Morrigan? The whole point of the romance wasn't to obsessively chase after her. it was to let her go. If you loved her, you trusted her and respected her wishes. If you didn't, you moved on with your life and did other things.

The only reason the 'I will follow Morrigan!' bit is in there is because at one point, I am sure they intended to continue with The Warden. But things have changed. He is not a flagship character for a series. Morrigan is closer to a flagship character than the faceless nameless Warden/Warden Commander will ever be in a million years.

As I've stated before, BG2 brought about a complete change of focus for the returning PC. He/she runs into old enemies/allies by chance, it doesn't have to be the focal point of DA2. The warden could travel to Orlais for a multitude of reasons and gets caught up in whatever web BW have planned, perchance running into some old friends and foes along the way. Its this magic combination of mixing old allies with new & the fantastic party banters that really defined BG. If Bioware really are aiming to recapture that old magic as they claim, then retaining the player's emotional investment is paramount, lest it become another Neverwinter Nights series of short stories.

Vicious wrote...
You gentlemen ignore the fact that they already replaced the Warden. and he is called the Orlesian Warden. He had nothing to do with Morrigan and yet for all intents and purposes is capable of completely replacing the main character. I'm sorry, but strong characters are irreplacable. Weak characters, however, are. And in the end The Warden is just that. A character so nebulous he pretty much HAS to be replaced for their to be replaced to have continuity without screwing the a chunk of the fanbase.

As for the epilogue slides of Awakenings, it's pretty clear they were written in a way to just say, "Your character went back to whatever it was you wanted him/her to be doing." And yes, in most of the endings The Warden mysteriously disappears... but so does the Orlesian Warden. And last time I checked he/she had absolutely nothing to do with Morrigan.

With their prior successes of BG1> BG:TotSC>BG2>BG2:TOB and most recently Shepherd in ME, I wouldn't consider the warden as definitely out of the picture yet. Swoo summarised the importance of your PC in the BG series perfectly with this post:

Swoo wrote...
I don't believe the Bioware Orlesian Warden tips a hand to any future plans for or against in any sort of finality.
I do think Awakenings was made just with the Orlesian in mind, and many of the screw-ups were from them trying to shoehorn in our old PCs, but I personally thought that it was more of a 'don't screw with the OG saves so it doesn't bring up complications linking DA1 to DA2' more than anything else. But one thing that is really telling is that all the
stories pretty much end up in the same place, out of Ferelden with great deeds still yet to be heard. Sounds like the Plot-Hammer winding up to get everyone close to Page One when the time comes to me, but that's just speculation and we could go back and forth and neither one honestly prove anything there. I also believe that it is rather telling that there is no Epilogue Save for him, and that Awakenings was meant more as a 'While Elsewhere...' kind of side story than a bridging of metaplots.


The biggest butting of heads of continuation in my mind comes from
the Mass Effect camps vs the Baldurs Gate camps. The BG hero was as
nameless as the Warden is, but as easy replaceable as he looked after
taking out Sarevok in Game I, you couldn't imagine Games II or III
without him. And he was a very fluid character to lock down; Mine was a
Elf Kensai who did the right thing, others had evil Mages or Clerics
devoted to myriad Gods, on and on. Then people point to Shepard as what a
PC should be, but I've never really felt that. I LOVE the Mass Effect
games, and I'll be right there for number 3, but honestly...I'm playing
Bioware's PC in that one. I'm more renting their Shepard than really
playing my own, and that's fine for the grand Space Opera they are
weaving over there. The thing that gives me hope is that the
less-defined types like the Abdel Adrian's of Baldurs Gate (I believe
that was the canonical name they gave him) and the Wardens offer a
chance for more personal investment, creating both a better personal
product and player loyalty, than Pre-Fab PCs. You build up a guy from
scratch, and you get it right carrying over through multiple meta-plots
into a defenitive finish, and you leave players with grand stories that
they'll carry with them ten years later like BG.

Note that Awakening has no end game save - maybe they intend to default Awakening to Orlesian warden, and possibly even retcon the ending of Origins for the Warden to follow whatever is planned for a future title. It's all up in the air right now and you can read into it either way, imo.

As a side by side comparison, the player will never be as attached to the Orlesian warden as they were the Origins warden - the characters are far from memorable, party interactions are less expansive, the whole thing feels rushed and takes a fraction of the time it takes to complete Origins. I'd argue that the Orlesian warden is by far the more "throwaway" character of the two. So ultimately, don't read too much into Awakening - Origins has an endgame save, scripting notes from devs in there alluding to endgame decisions being used in the future, Awakening does not. This could be as simple as not wanting to exclude players who don't purchase any of the expansions, allowing them to continue the "core" storyline in DA2 without making the expansions mandatory.

Last but not least, your english is fine Vicious

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 12 mai 2010 - 03:57 .

[Brockololly]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
Am I just being MYOPIC?

Someone should make a CSI spoof

YES-have it with Morrigan in shades:lol:

[webbedfeet]

I don't like Mass Effect that much, to be honest. It has its good points, but it's not that high in my list of Bioware favourites. That might be attributable to my extremely poor twitch skills, though.



(And re : Obsidian...well, I think Obsidian has fantastic writers, to be honest. Chris Avellone is still my god until he screws up REALLY spectacularly. I tend to like their take on morality better than Bioware's, too. It's just that they should, really, really really fire their entire coding/game balancing department.)

[tom2504]

I think Gaider is sitting behind his computer laughing at us now, he didn't exactly specify anything but it DID seem like he was trying to subtly imply that Morrigan wouldn't return. Now it's turned into a bunch of theories and doubts about DAO2. Perhaps he did this for his own amusement?  I am well in the top 5 of the most paranoid and anxious people regarding DAO2 though so no offense intended!

Back on topic though -

Is it even possible for your Warden in DAO to be transferred to DAO2? I'm aware of Awakening but that's a download + a full installment of the entire expansion, as oppose to a disk with a full game. If it IS infact possible, how would the character be taken from DAO original to DAO2, via a chosen save from the original or? This is just general curiosity, kinda hard to phrase that question differently to be appropriately searched on Google.

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
Am I just being MYOPIC?

Someone should make a CSI spoof

YES-have it with Morrigan in shades:lol:

POST IT!! Post it NOW!!

[Master Shiori]

tom2504 wrote...


Back on topic though -

Is it even possible for your Warden in DAO to be transferred to DAO2? I'm aware of Awakening but that's a download + a full installment of the entire expansion, as oppose to a disk with a full game. If it IS infact possible, how would the character be taken from DAO original to DAO2, via a chosen save from the original or? This is just general curiosity, kinda hard to phrase that question differently to be appropriately searched on Google.

They could do it like it was done in ME2.

You import your romance and choices while your abilities, level and gear are removed and you start again from level 1.

I imagine they'd use the Origins epilogue save just as they did for Awakening

[blademaster7]

Master Shiori wrote...
They could do it like it was done in ME2.

You import your romance and choices while your abilities, level and gear are removed and you start again from level 1.

I imagine they'd use the Origins epilogue save just as they did for Awakening

You know, I thought about it a little and I think it would be easier to just give you a new character. I don't really like saying it but whatever. I'm just trying to justify them for once.

DA2 will most likely take place outside of Ferelden, so anything that happened there could be easily ignored. Maybe you'll listen about the king/queen of Ferelden. Other than that, nothing else is worth mentioning.  The only thing that's worth importing is the DR. But what is the point of importing what is already there? I don't think they're stupid enough to drop that kind of story and let you play with someone who sacrificed Alistair/Loghain. As far as I'm concerned that's already canon and incorporated into DA2 .

With the exception of romances and your relationships with other NPCs(Sten and company) there's nothing to import.

It would be easy for them to just let you import your Warden and his/her LI but then again, it would be MUCH easier to give you a new character. As I already said, there's nothing to import. It comes down to giving a canon to a new character or screwing the decisions of existing characters. I don't like any of these, but I can't think of anything else.

That said, I would still like to see closure in my story before going any further with DA games. The Grey Warden disappears and no one knows the reason just doesn't cut it.

EDIT: Edited to fix some typos. I wasn't wearing my glasses.

Modifié par blademaster7, 12 mai 2010 - 05:50 .

[Master Shiori]

blademaster7 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...
They could do it like it was done in ME2.

You import your romance and choices while your abilities, level and gear are removed and you start again from level 1.

I imagine they'd use the Origins epilogue save just as they did for Awakening

You know, I thought about it a little and I think it would be easier to just give you a new character. I don't really like saying it but whatever. I'm just trying to justify them for once.

DA2 will most likely take place outside of Ferelden, so anything that happened there could be easily ignored. Maybe you'll listen about the king/queen of Ferelden. Other than that, nothing else is worth mentioning.  The only thing that's worth importing is the DR. But what is the point of importing what is already there? I don't think they're stupid enough to drop that kind of story and let you play with someone who sacrificed Alistair/Loghain. As far as I'm concerned that's already canon and incorporated into DA2 .

With the exception of romances and NPCs(Sten and company) there's nothing to import.

It would be easy for them to just let you import your Warden and his/her LI but then again, it would be MUCH easier to give you a new character. As I already said, there's nothing to import.

That said, I would still like to see closure in my story before going any further with DA games. The Grey Warden disappears and no one knows the reason just doesn't cut it.

The problem is once we do create a new character for DA2 we're unlikely to ever again play as our Warden from DA:O.

As far as Bioware is concerned we want closure to Morrigan's story and nowhere is it said that we can't get this while playing as a DA2 character.

So, if we truly want our reunion with Morri then we need our Warden.

[blademaster7]

Master Shiori wrote...

The problem is once we do create a new character for DA2 we're unlikely to ever again play as our Warden from DA:O.

As far as Bioware is concerned we want closure to Morrigan's story and nowhere is it said that we can't get this while playing as a DA2 character.

So, if we truly want our reunion with Morri then we need our Warden.

As far as Bioware is concerned that is our problem and not theirs. Sad really.

They will just release DA2 and say

Bioware: Here you go. It's an excellent game.
Consumer: But what about my Warden? Can I import him?
Bioware: Who's the Warden?
Consumer: And what about Morrigan? Will my Warden ever see her again?
Bioware: Did I mention that this is an excellent game?
Consumer: Yes yes, now answer the question.
Bioware: What question?

EDIT: I think I just died a little inside while writting(and reading) my last 2 posts... [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie]
I should stab myself in the foot next.

Modifié par blademaster7, 12 mai 2010 - 06:01 .

[Master Shiori]

blademaster7 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

The problem is once we do create a new character for DA2 we're unlikely to ever again play as our Warden from DA:O.

As far as Bioware is concerned we want closure to Morrigan's story and nowhere is it said that we can't get this while playing as a DA2 character.

So, if we truly want our reunion with Morri then we need our Warden.

As far as Bioware is concerned that is our problem and not theirs. Sad really.

They will just release DA2 and say

Bioware: Here you go. It's an excellent game.
Consumer: But what about my Warden? Can I import him?
Bioware: Who's the Warden?
Consumer: And what about Morrigan? Will my Warden ever see her again?
Bioware: Did I mention that this is an excellent game?
Consumer: Yes yes, now answer the question.
Bioware: What question?

EDIT: I think I just died a little inside while writting(and reading) my last 2 posts... [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie]
I should stab myself in the foot next.

Ah yes, that's exactly how I'd imagine Gaider responding if asked those very questions...

[Brockololly]

blademaster7 wrote...

You know, I thought about it a little and I think it would be easier to just give you a new character. I don't really like saying it but whatever. I'm just trying to justify them for once.

Oh I agree- for the developers it likely would be way easier to just start off with a new hero and discard the Warden. But my problem with that is that it sets a bad precedent where its entirely possible we'll just have disposable heroes going through a revolving door for each new DA game. It would be like Neverwinter Nights all over again. Thats not to say the standalone games couldn't be good, but I would get more out of DA if they had some meaningful continuity.

blademaster7 wrote...
DA2 will most likely take place outside of Ferelden, so anything that happened there could be easily ignored. Maybe you'll listen about the king/queen of Ferelden. Other than that, nothing else is worth mentioning.  The only thing that's worth importing is the DR. But what is the point of importing what is already there? I don't think they're stupid enough to drop that kind of story and let you play with someone who sacrificed Alistair/Loghain. As far as I'm concerned that's already canon and incorporated into DA2 .

With the exception of romances and your relationships with other NPCs(Sten and company) there's nothing to import.

Thats the thing really though- for me at least, the main thing I want to see carried forward are the characters. Who is king of Orzammar or whether you sided with the Werewolves/Dalish become irrelevent or reduced to a couple lines of dialogue or are easily canonized if you set the game in Orlais or some other country. The things I'd like to see imported would be your LI and the BIG choices, like who is king/queen and whether you did the DR or not. And they could always take the BG route too, where they start the game with the Warden plunked down in a dungeon some mysterious place and as you escape you stumble across your old companions.

As has been discussed ad nauseum, the problem with just starting a new hero is that means the Warden from Origins is done forever. And more likely than not, that also means we'll be stuck with some ambiguous "he vanished!" or a Viconia-like codex entry where we learned the "Hero of Ferelden was crushed by a giant boulder in his search for the dark haired sorceress." That would severely sour my outlook on future DA games.

blademaster7 wrote...
That said, I would still like to see closure in my story before going any further with DA games. The Grey Warden disappears and no one knows the reason just doesn't cut it.

Amen- its not a huge request I don't think....but then again....

blademaster7 wrote...
EDIT: Edited to fix some typos. I wasn't wearing my glasses.

*puts on shades* "Maybe we're just being MYOPIC"

YEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!

[Master Shiori]

The problem with standalone games like NWN is that like it or not as long as the characters and stories are good people will get attached to them and will want to see them continue on past the original game.
Right now we all love the characters from Origins and would love to see some of them rejoin us.
What happens when DA2 brings a completely new cast of companions, people learn to love or hate them and start demanding their stories continue?

Yes, starting with a clean slate for each DA title may seem easier now, but after a few games down the road people might get tired of romances and characters that never seemto continue past the original game.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 12 mai 2010 - 06:40 .

[blademaster7]

[]

Brockololly wrote...

Thats the thing really though- for me at least, the main thing I want to see carried forward are the characters. Who is king of Orzammar or whether you sided with the Werewolves/Dalish become irrelevent or reduced to a couple lines of dialogue or are easily canonized if you set the game in Orlais or some other country. The things I'd like to see imported would be your LI and the BIG choices, like who is king/queen and whether you did the DR or not. And they could always take the BG route too, where they start the game with the Warden plunked down in a dungeon some mysterious place and as you escape you stumble across your old companions.

If we get to import our Warden and all the romance associated flags then I'm sold.

As for decisions. The only one that matters is the DR. And lets face it, you don't need a save game from DAO to see that in DA2. Unless they decide to scrap Morrigan and the OGB, but who am I kidding.

Brockololly wrote...
As has been discussed ad nauseum, the problem with just starting a new hero is that means the Warden from Origins is done forever. And more likely than not, that also means we'll be stuck with some ambiguous "he vanished!" or a Viconia-like codex entry where we learned the "Hero of Ferelden was crushed by a giant boulder in his search for the dark haired sorceress." That would severely sour my outlook on future DA games.

I agree 100% but  I think we're running in circles here.

Instead of discussing about the character and post some eye candy  we are worried that our favorite Warden will get crushed by the giant boulder of doom. I'm also sceptical about the purchase of any further DA product. Sigh.

[/B)]