16183 réponses à ce sujet

[tom2504]

blademaster7 wrote...

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Christos/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.pngfile:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Christos/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.png


You guys should have your eyes checked, because you clearly show signs of myopia. All this theorycrafting about unreasonable storylines is driving me crazy.

I laughed 

[tom2504]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

My question is whether Morrigan and Flemeth are alone in all this. Was it Flemeth who built the hut all by herself in the Korcari Wilds? Or maybe the hut was there before Flemeth even came.

I know that Morrigan can take care for herself but what will happen when the child comes out? It’s her first birth and she can’t just do the work all alone. Right? And if the child is a demon or dragon that it will make things even harder.

That will certainly make the birth harder.



Edit: this seems fitting to add here - http://social.biowar...537/polls/5723/

Modifié par tom2504, 13 mai 2010 - 06:54 .

[Swoo]

Ok, in the sake of breaking the loop of discussion, here's my two cents on some Flemeth and Morrigan lines.

Well, how Flemeth ties into this and Morrigan and the DR is one of those huge questions that pushes my hope that the Warden comes back and gets to meet up (no cameos!) and interact with them again.

I've seen it brought up a few times that the OGB is just a plan for a super-host for possession, but I don't think that can actually happen based on the rules they have shown us for Dragon Age, right? Demons can take over someones power because they do it more as a puppeteer from the Fade, pulling strings from the outside while you are more or less intact. Whereas an actual bodyswap like Flemeth does would be more like pushing the old soul out and replacing it with your own. Seems like what would make the OGB powerful is the fact it has a piece of the Old God and Wardens soul in it, so Flemeth's trick - if possible - would take away that which made it special for the possibility of a possession in the first place.

My first inclination - after WTF,mate? - came back to something Zevran said, about having heard of another Witch of the Wild in Antiva. A lot of Morrigan's endings seem to put her in Orlais at the end, and it seems pretty obvious based on Codexes and game interactions that there is some kind of heavy tie to the Old God and Dragon Cults (I need to reload my pre-Reaver choice, I think the snippet you get from her is like the one of the only truly positive remarks towards and orginization/cult/religion when you accept the Dragon Cults offer). It just makes me wonder if creatures like Flemeth - and perhaps Morrigan, those eyes are either from Dragon Blood, or a Dragon Shapeshifting to a Human - have scattered across Thedas working on something major and that's the main reason you couldn't follow. The OGB is made, it's time to report in to home office so to speak, and maybe the fear was a)you'll screw things up or b)they'll screw you up.

Now, the catch to that is both Flemeth and Wynne. Some incredibly
rare form of merging with a willing host that instead creates an intact
abomination. So you would maybe have to raise the baby up a bit before
presenting the choice of such a merging. That brings up questions I just
have no clue about though. I mean, do they card you for possessions?
Must be 18 to sign? So I suppose I can see a
way after all that they'd be able to possess him/her, but there seems
like there would be some time there for things to not quite go to plan.
Plus, I'm not sure Morrigan would jive with that plan. The experience
with Flemeth and party chat seems to make me think she's not down with
the idea too much, maybe that's why she ran. She had bosses, she had
rules, and she's deciding to go off the reservation with her own ideas
and knows it going to get ugly as hell.

Now, this is where I understand Gaider's myopic comment a bit because this sounds a bit overwhelming to the plot of DA2. How I see it though is that I spent 15 hours on average getting Arl Eamon out of his coma, and that was about 20% of my gametime. I don't think asking for, lets say 15%, of DA2s playtime dealing with the Dark Ritual to be too overwhelming to players. So as was pointed out by a poster before, I think it would be very easily done as one of the four main quest hubs in the next game and could work well because like Morrigan, hate Morrigan, do the DR, don't do the DR, you have to admit this is one hell of a plot hook. 

And it can end badly, very badly. The Chantry will want this kid dead, and possibly some 'Cult' infighting going on as well, not to mention my guesstimation is that a power play is being made in Orlais court for support/power , it opens itself up to one massive throwdown that could end very bloody. And THAT is what really hooks me, as much as I want the who's, what's, why's, and howe's, I want some more choices in decidedly grey areas to make. And hey, Mages are my favorite, suckerpunching the Chantry with a new religion would be mighty fine for me!

[Brockololly]

Swoo wrote...

I've seen it brought up a few times that the OGB is just a plan for a super-host for possession, but I don't think that can actually happen based on the rules they have shown us for Dragon Age, right? Demons can take over someones power because they do it more as a puppeteer from the Fade, pulling strings from the outside while you are more or less intact. Whereas an actual bodyswap like Flemeth does would be more like pushing the old soul out and replacing it with your own. Seems like what would make the OGB powerful is the fact it has a piece of the Old God and Wardens soul in it, so Flemeth's trick - if possible - would take away that which made it special for the possibility of a possession in the first place.

Thats something I wonder about too. It seems clear that Flemeth is not your typical abomination. If I'm not mistaken when you chat with Morrigan about Flemeth's story she mentions how she called a spirit to aid her first and it was only later that Flemeth met the demon which made her an abomination. So Flemeth isn't your normal abomination but some unique one that we likely haven't dealt with before. Is she really just a demon, like the Baroness in Awakening? I don't think so- maybe she is like a spirit (like Wynne) plus a demon plus Flemeth all merged into one? No clue- I hope some of the Fade lore and Black City stuff is explored more in DA2.

Swoo wrote...
My first inclination - after WTF,mate? - came back to something Zevran said, about having heard of another Witch of the Wild in Antiva. A lot of Morrigan's endings seem to put her in Orlais at the end, and it seems pretty obvious based on Codexes and game interactions that there is some kind of heavy tie to the Old God and Dragon Cults (I need to reload my pre-Reaver choice, I think the snippet you get from her is like the one of the only truly positive remarks towards and orginization/cult/religion when you accept the Dragon Cults offer). It just makes me wonder if creatures like Flemeth - and perhaps Morrigan, those eyes are either from Dragon Blood, or a Dragon Shapeshifting to a Human - have scattered across Thedas working on something major and that's the main reason you couldn't follow. The OGB is made, it's time to report in to home office so to speak, and maybe the fear was a)you'll screw things up or b)they'll screw you up.

Thats partly what I've thought too. Maybe Morrigan doesn't want to tell you anything or want the Warden to tag along because she is going back to her little Dragon Cult buddies. It would possibly explain Morrigan's unique eyes or how Flemeth shapeshifts into a High Dragon. That Zavran banter is interesting too in the notion that maybe there are other daughters of Flemeth out there that have broken free like MOrrigan. Maybe some of Flemeth's daughters have killed Flemeth before? It would be interesting if perhaps once you kill Flemeth, her soul possesses one of her other daughters thats maybe out in Antiva or something...

The other interesting thing is that Morrigan mentions in one of her banters with Shale is that you need to study the SOUL of something to shapeshift into it.... Yeah, what soul did Morrigan just obtain from the DR? Maybe Morrigan can shapeshift into a High Dragon next game- sure would make shapeshifting a worthwhile specialization, eh?
----------------------------------------------------------------



A couple notes of stuff while looking through the toolset:
- One notable thing that always bothered me in the DR (among many things) is this sequence you can get:

PC: How do you even  know this will work?
Morrigan: I do not "know" it will work. I do, however, have every confidence in my mother's magic. And so should you.
Morrigan: This is what my mother intended when she sent me with you. She was the one who first gave me this ritual and told me of what I was meant to do.
Morrigan: This does not surprise you, does it? Did you not wonder why Flemeth saved your life, why she aided you? This is why.
Morrigan: What is important is that I am offering this to you now. It will work and it will save your life.

Ok first off, yeah Morrigan I am kind of surprised.... But secondly, MOrrigan starts out saying she doesn't know if it will work but then a couple lines later she does know it will work? Huh? Never mind the fact that if I just learned my mother was trying to steal my body I might be a bit weary of trusting her magic...




------------------------------------------------------------------------
And maybe you guys have already found this sequence, but I just noticed it and its just more in tone with what I'd have liked to hear in the DR. It plays if you are romancing Morrigan and come back after trying to convince Alistair to do it:

Morrigan: Little time remains. I suggest you go to Alistair's room quickly.
PC: Morrigan, I don't want to lose you.
Morrigan: Don't be a fool. I am already lost. This must be done. For your sake, as well as my own. I... I told you that this could not be, did I not?Go. Do what you must.

The delivery of the lines by Claudia Black  in that sequence are fantastic- its much more emotional than most of the lines in the DR and at least hints at how broken up and conflicted Morrigan is about the whole thing- she almost sounds like she is going to cry, kind of like how it is after you give her the mirror. Th whole I am already lost makes me wonder if MOrrigan isn't making some sort of sacrifice herself in doing the Ritual? Beyond losing the Warden of course.

Great stuff, its a shame the whole thing wasn't as fleshed out as it could have been...

Modifié par Brockololly, 13 mai 2010 - 07:46 .

[blademaster7]

Brockololly wrote...

Morrigan: Little time remains. I suggest you go to Alistair's room quickly.
PC: Morrigan, I don't want to lose you.
Morrigan: Don't be a fool. I am already lost. This must be done. For your sake, as well as my own. I... I told you that this could not be, did I not?Go. Do what you must.

tsk tsk tsk... you havesn't paying attention to this thread I see. jk

I pointed that out a while back. I even made a sugestion to Terra_ex to put this line in the initial discussion(without having to bring up Alistair). You only get that line if you bring up Alistair/Loghain. It's a shame really, because no one in his right mind would send her to another man and thus would never get to say  "Morrigan, I don't want to lose you".

But I'm guessing it is something that requires a lot of work.

[Brockololly]

blademaster7 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Morrigan: Little time remains. I suggest you go to Alistair's room quickly.
PC: Morrigan, I don't want to lose you.
Morrigan: Don't be a fool. I am already lost. This must be done. For your sake, as well as my own. I... I told you that this could not be, did I not?Go. Do what you must.

tsk tsk tsk... you havesn't paying attention to this thread I see. jk

I pointed that out a while back. I even made a sugestion to Terra_ex to put this line in the initial discussion(without having to bring up Alistair). You only get that line if you bring up Alistair/Loghain. It's a shame really, because no one in his right mind would send her to another man and thus would never get to say  "Morrigan, I don't want to lose you".
But I'm guessing it is something that requires a lot of work.

Hah- yeah, its one thing to read that sequence but the VO work is really top notch there. Honestly, I'd agree with you blademaster- it should be somewhere earlier on for the romancing Warden even without asking Alistair. As it is, the line doesn't really make too much sense- although I think I did get it when I first played through, only because I opted to chat with Alistair only to see what he thought of the Ritual, not with any intention of letting him do the deed.

Modifié par Brockololly, 13 mai 2010 - 08:00 .

[Terra_Ex]

Brockololly wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Morrigan: Little time remains. I suggest you go to Alistair's room quickly.
PC: Morrigan, I don't want to lose you.
Morrigan: Don't be a fool. I am already lost. This must be done. For your sake, as well as my own. I... I told you that this could not be, did I not?Go. Do what you must.

tsk tsk tsk... you havesn't paying attention to this thread I see. jk

I pointed that out a while back. I even made a sugestion to Terra_ex to put this line in the initial discussion(without having to bring up Alistair). You only get that line if you bring up Alistair/Loghain. It's a shame really, because no one in his right mind would send her to another man and thus would never get to say  "Morrigan, I don't want to lose you".
But I'm guessing it is something that requires a lot of work.

Hah- yeah, its one thing to read that sequence but the VO work is really top notch there. Honestly, I'd agree with you blademaster- it should be somewhere earlier on for the romancing Warden even without asking Alistair. As it is, the line doesn't really make too much sense- although I think I did get it when I first played through, only because I opted to chat with Alistair only to see what he thought of the Ritual, not with any intention of letting him do the deed.

I'm still trying to decide on that one. It's not a massive amount of work to put it in... That line only appears if you talk to her manually after agreeing to the Alistair/Loghain proposition as it stands, which is a bit of an odd place to restrict it to... My only reservation is it is breaking from the "canon" DR dialogue paths, not sure... part of me says it should be a choice within the standard conversation, part of me says it should not.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 13 mai 2010 - 08:07 .

[blademaster7]

Terra... that particular line is the closest thing we get to romance. It's the most emotional line of Morrigan but it's only available if you say no and go to Alistair's room.



Who in his right mind will say "Alright, I'll send you to Alistair"? In my book that line is literally non-existent. How many Morrigan fans out there do you think are aware of that line? I'm playing this game for 6 months now and I only found out about it 20 days ago. And I saw it in the toolset first.



Add the damn line to the DR already.... Come on man....

[Brockololly]

Terra_Ex wrote...

I'm still trying to decide on that one. It's not a massive amount of work to put it in... That line only appears if you talk to her manually after agreeing to the Alistair/Loghain proposition as it stands, which is a bit of an odd place to restrict it to... My only reservation is it is breaking from the "canon" DR dialogue paths, not sure... part of me says it should be a choice within the standard conversation, part of me says it should not.

The thing with that series of lines is that when I played through the first time, the reason I went to Alistair was just to chat with him about the DR- with no intention of actually letting him do it. I guess I just wish there was a way to tell Morrigan "Hey, let me discuss this whole OG B bombshell with Alistair" instead of "Oh I'm going to try and convince Alistair to bone you even though you're in love with me -brb!"  I'm not sure where that line would go otherwise, but as it exists its kind of in an odd place for the Warden to say I don't want to lose you, presuambly after trying to convince Alistair to hook up with your lover.

Terra, if you're worried about it mucking up the DR as it exists and deviating from "canon" so to speak, PM Gaider and see if he has any advice- you never know.

[Master Shiori]

Damn Blademaster.



That response you posted in the topic about going after Morrigan was fantastic.



Nice to see you stil care enough about the issue to respond like that.

[blademaster7]

That's until Gaider comes along and posts one of his enigmatic maybe/maybe not replies and then speaks about advantages and disadvantages. Then I'll start ranting again.

Modifié par blademaster7, 13 mai 2010 - 08:57 .

[Barbarossa2010]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Vicious wrote...

Could some of you fellas explain to me exactly what you want to do with Morrigan if your PCs find her?

Honestly Vicious, I'm pretty much done with Morrigan.  From the contrived WTF Gotcha moment at the DR, to the glitches (or maybe they're not glitches) that automatically reduce your Warden and Morrigan to bestest buddies because you dared to talk to her; to BW's virtual silence on the issues raised in this thread.  I'm just done.  The romance was handled poorly in game, the Ritual was contrived and souring, and the response to player outrage is to tell us we're "myopic." 

Why should anyone give a **** anymore? Seriously.  Whatever they have planned for the Warden and Morrigan (even if there is a plan), they're not going to allow you to affect a damn thing anyway, and if so, they'll probably kill Morrigan off or something equally stupid because this is "dark fantasy;" so I'm pretty much moving on.  Gaider and company way overplay their hand with Morrigan; just my opinion of course.

I mean, I'll stay on the Boards here, because I've made a few virtual friends, and I need to rant every so often and these guys are most accomodating; but sitting on the edge of my seat in anticipation of the next DA title?  Nah.  The DLC released to date and the upcoming fiasco on May 18 isn't exactly making up for that lousy ass ending.  It's really only serving to sour me on the franchise.

I've got to get back to gaming that I enjoy and is not ruined by contrived storylines.  I'm honestly more interested in ME3 and what that will bring, than worrying about Morrigan anymore.  The DA Team's response (or lack of) on our well outlined issues has pretty much seen to that. 

Some of this may sound a little harsh, but I'm just being honest.  No intent to offend anyone here at all.  Everyone has their opinion this is just mine.

Dammit Barbarossa!

Do you have to crush even the smallest grain of hope that I have left for the romance. *Fist clench*

I thought we were getting along quite well on these forums. I was even gonna send you a friend invite and name one my children after you.

Awesome E, I still think there's a lot of hope that things will work out as you wish.  Remember I'm new to the scene, and am only approach this from a perspective as to whether or not this sort of thing is normal for the genre of RPGs (I have nothing but my own gaming background to compare it to).

I honestly think Gaider is here to lower your expectations only to give the Morrigan fans what they want in the end.  I'm not sure how he will do that, but I honestly think you all will be pleasantly surprised.  BW would be fools to squander the capital they've gained in this game by alienating a large part of their player base; and they are not fools.  Look at the evidence: Morrigan is not a killable NPC; I'll bet the player base is predominantly male; Morrigan is the most attractive LI for males; I'll bet the vast majority of male players romanced her; BW stripped the Warden of any real choice at the DR and pigeon-holed the player to accept Morrigan's offer; I'll bet the vast majority of those romancers took her offer at the DR.  BW will chase the bottom line by adjusting accordingly, and for that you should be very hopeful.  I'm just not a fan of this sort of thing for a hundred reasons that I will spare the thread, since I've pretty much stated them ad nauseum.

I am much more suited for Mass Effect.  That does not mean that Dragon Age is any less of a game for the vast majority of players who truly like it.  Mass Effect is straighforward and epically heroic.  DA is dark fantasy as I've been lectured over and over again.  It is only matter of preference.  I only come across jaded because this was my first RPG and I'm not used to such artistic license (and at least being rewarded for the effort) in a story where I'm playing the main character.  I get that Shepard might have to die if you choose poorly or lack due diligence in your effort in the body of the game, but I don't get feeling sour at the end of a game when you've done nothing wrong (well to the best of my knowledge I did nothing wrong except romance the plot hook NPC).

That is just MY (and mine alone) take on things...and I'm going to send YOU a friend request anyway.

[Barbarossa2010]

blademaster7 wrote...

This one is for Barbarossa.



CLICK THE RIGHT TRIGGER!!! 

You sir are a genius!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You just get it, don't you?

[Ash Wind]

Brockololly wrote...

Question: Do you think Flemeth can see into the future? I'd bet this has been brought up before but since it seems like we just talk in circles here, why not! Do you think Flemeth is pulling all the strings and has tricked Morrigan into doing the DR?

***Stolen Throne Spoiler**************






The only character I can immediately recall as having any type of soothsyaing ability was in The Stolen Throne. They never refer to her as Flemeth, but while escaping the Usurper's attack on Loghain's father's camp, Loghain and Maric come across the Witch of The Wilds. Its explained that magic gives her an insight to the future, but its not straightforward, its murky and difficult to decipher.

[Brockololly]

Ash Wind wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Question: Do you think Flemeth can see into the future? I'd bet this has been brought up before but since it seems like we just talk in circles here, why not! Do you think Flemeth is pulling all the strings and has tricked Morrigan into doing the DR?

***Stolen Throne Spoiler**************

The only character I can immediately recall as having any type of soothsyaing ability was in The Stolen Throne. They never refer to her as Flemeth, but while escaping the Usurper's attack on Loghain's father's camp, Loghain and Maric come across the Witch of The Wilds. Its explained that magic gives her an insight to the future, but its not straightforward, its murky and difficult to decipher.

I'm of the opinion that the  Witch of the Wilds in the Stolen Throne is almost certainly Flemeth. I mean, in Origins Flemeth seems to have some sort of precognition when talking with Jory and Daveth and what we hear of Flemeth's insights in the Stolen Throne seem true enough. Whats interesting is what the heck was going on between her and Maric all night in her hut? I know its been brought up before that its possible Maric is Morrigan's father but yeah... that would seem a bit too Arthurian to me.  But as for what Flemeth often means- she speaks so cryptically its just pointless to often try to interpret her in the game...

Whats interesting too is how when you fight Gaxkang, he mentions "Eyes are on you from a very high vantage, Grey Warden" Does that mean the Warden potentially has a greater role than just ending the Blight if a demon/spirit claims that "eyes are on you" ?

[Terastar]

I am beginning to think that Morrigan and Flemith are one and the same person. Morrigan the younger version of the older Flemith. It's like where Cardin can't destory the anvil. Morrigan can't kill her own self. In the fade she knows it's a fake Flemith but she can't kill her. She don't even attempt to help you. The others just don't even know that that they are in the fade but will help kill the other demons when they are made know to them.In the real world she can't go because she is afraid she will pop into her body at death. She needs to remain as the Morrigan person until after the DR deed is done. Would anyone want Flemith even in Morrigan's body? In both Lelianna's and Morrigan's story of the Witches of the Wilds. Flemith was a Dark Haired beauty. When she meets you for the first time she says the others are unimportant but you matter. (I thought that was odd I was a female I couldn't make Morrigan PG but I could influence Alistair to have it with her.) Flemeth hint's that there is more than the archdemons to worry about. She wants the OG's saved but that is not something she isn't worried about causing harm to the world. There is a greater evil afoot. That is DAO2 story. We will just have to wait and see.

[Swoo]

Brockololly wrote...

Whats interesting too is how when you fight Gaxkang, he mentions "Eyes are on you from a very high vantage, Grey Warden" Does that mean the Warden potentially has a greater role than just ending the Blight if a demon/spirit claims that "eyes are on you" ?

Has any real insight been given in sources about Flemeth's Demon? What your asking just has me wondering if it's really a Demon at all she made her pact with, but something much stronger, and with a much more longterm and endgame goal in mind.

Brings up some questions if so about what exactly she meant about having seen this dance before, sometimes doing it herself (or whatnot, Wiki didn't have the exact quote). Old Gods trying a Plan B to get a foothold in the Maker's realm, maybe?

[Swoo]

Terastar wrote...

I am beginning to think that Morrigan and Flemith are one and the same person. Morrigan the younger version of the older Flemith. It's like where Cardin can't destory the anvil. Morrigan can't kill her own self. 

I had a fear sort of like that when the DR hit me (Oh crap, the old hag DID possess her!) but I doubt they are the same person. If anything, whatever they are cooking up Morrigan knows just enough to know Flemeth is going to be a hell of a problem down the road.

[Brockololly]

Swoo wrote...

Has any real insight been given in sources about Flemeth's Demon? What your asking just has me wondering if it's really a Demon at all she made her pact with, but something much stronger, and with a much more longterm and endgame goal in mind.

Hmmm... well here are some of the more relevant quotes pulled from the toolset from when Morrigan talks about Flemeth at various points:

"As a matter of fact, I remember her being younger once. She had black hair much like my own, long and lustrous."
"But how could that be if she is centuries old? Has she become wizened only recently? Or are the tales of her legend only that and nothing more?"

     - This is a curious segment- Morrigan is likely 30 years old tops, so would Flemeth age so much in 30 years or
        does she age at an accelerated rate or something? Theres something fishy going on there...


PC: Can an abomination even reproduce?
Morrigan: Who knows for certain? Flemeth is unique in her fashion, providing that the tales of her legend are as she claims... and she claims little.

Morrigan: Flemeth begged the spirits to aid her and 'twas they who slew Conobar. The demon the legend tells of came later. Lord Conobar's allies chased Flemeth, you see. Chased her to the Wilds and there she hid. There she found the demon and he made her strong.

Morrigan: The demon within her has transformed her into... something else. An abomination, perhaps some would say? I know not. I only know my mother is clever. And she is part of the Wilds as it is part of her.

Morrigan: There are more things in this world and the next than you or I could ever hope to understand. What Flemeth became is a mystery... I suspect even to her.

----------------------

So there you have it- seemingly Flemeth made a deal with spirits and then a demon which made her into some sort of spirit/demon abomination thing? Since she shapeshifts into a High Dragon I wonder if she didn't maybe make a deal with an Old God or something... Maybe similar to how the Old Gods talked to the Tevinter mages, maybe Flemeth made a deal with one of the Old Gods and she was tricked into becoming an abomination of some sort, kind of like how the Old Gods basically tricked the Tevinter mages into assaulting the Golden City? Or maybe its something to do with the Dragon cults...

Another thing is the fact that Flemeth, even if you kill her seems to not be truly dead, so she seems immortal. Which is somewhat like the Archdemon's soul, right? There seems to be some kind of analogous relationship between how the Archdemon soul seeks out darkspawn /grey wardens when its killed and maybe how Flemeth would have tried to posess Morrigan if she were nearby when Flemeth was slain.

Or maybe if you look at Arl Foreshadow's notes he mentions something about survivors of Arlathan.. Now I'm pretty sure Flemeth isn't elven, but the old elves supposedly were immortal, right? Maybe Flemeth ties into that somehow, I don't know.

[Terastar]

Abominations goes from: Rage, Hunger, Sloth, Pride and Desire.

High dragons are over 100 years old. It takes 100 years for them to get wings.(From game guide)

Does anyone eles think it's funny that the OG that is save is Beauty?? Ha!! A girls best friend Ha!!

I can't find out much of anything about spirits. I think Justice would be a bevelovent spirit. What spirit is co-habitating with Wynne I wonder?

[Brockololly]

Terastar wrote...

Abominations goes from: Rage, Hunger, Sloth, Pride and Desire.
High dragons are over 100 years old. It takes 100 years for them to get wings.(From game guide)
Does anyone eles think it's funny that the OG that is save is Beauty?? Ha!! A girls best friend Ha!!
I can't find out much of anything about spirits. I think Justice would be a bevelovent spirit. What spirit is co-habitating with Wynne I wonder?

I tend to think the fact that Urthemiel is the God of Beauty is no coincidence. I think its Leliana that says Flemeth misses her lost beauty or something when you ask her to tell the story of Flemeth. And then of course Morrigan is particular about her appearanc and likes all the shiny jewelery and such. Throw in the fact that there is the Urthemiel Plateau in Orlais and it sure seems like something is brewing....

As far as spirits go, we've met Justice and then in the mage origin its Valor I think in the Fade. No idea what one might be keeping Wynne alive.

[Ash Wind]

Brockololly wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Question: Do you think Flemeth can see into the future? I'd bet this has been brought up before but since it seems like we just talk in circles here, why not! Do you think Flemeth is pulling all the strings and has tricked Morrigan into doing the DR?

***Stolen Throne Spoiler**************

The only character I can immediately recall as having any type of soothsyaing ability was in The Stolen Throne. They never refer to her as Flemeth, but while escaping the Usurper's attack on Loghain's father's camp, Loghain and Maric come across the Witch of The Wilds. Its explained that magic gives her an insight to the future, but its not straightforward, its murky and difficult to decipher.

I'm of the opinion that the  Witch of the Wilds in the Stolen Throne is almost certainly Flemeth. I mean, in Origins Flemeth seems to have some sort of precognition when talking with Jory and Daveth and what we hear of Flemeth's insights in the Stolen Throne seem true enough. Whats interesting is what the heck was going on between her and Maric all night in her hut? I know its been brought up before that its possible Maric is Morrigan's father but yeah... that would seem a bit too Arthurian to me.  But as for what Flemeth often means- she speaks so cryptically its just pointless to often try to interpret her in the game...

Whats interesting too is how when you fight Gaxkang, he mentions "Eyes are on you from a very high vantage, Grey Warden" Does that mean the Warden potentially has a greater role than just ending the Blight if a demon/spirit claims that "eyes are on you" ?

I believe the novel version is definitely Flemeth, and she does drop hints at seeing the future, even in the game. When the Grey Warden Recruits show up, she says, 'Just as I expected." To which Ali replies 'Are we supposed to believe you're expecting us?'

Yes, what she tell Maric about the coming blight apparently does come to fruition.

[Ash Wind]

Terastar wrote...

I am beginning to think that Morrigan and Flemith are one and the same person. Morrigan the younger version of the older Flemith. It's like where Cardin can't destory the anvil. Morrigan can't kill her own self. In the fade she knows it's a fake Flemith but she can't kill her. She don't even attempt to help you. The others just don't even know that that they are in the fade but will help kill the other demons when they are made know to them.In the real world she can't go because she is afraid she will pop into her body at death. She needs to remain as the Morrigan person until after the DR deed is done. Would anyone want Flemith even in Morrigan's body? In both Lelianna's and Morrigan's story of the Witches of the Wilds. Flemith was a Dark Haired beauty. When she meets you for the first time she says the others are unimportant but you matter. (I thought that was odd I was a female I couldn't make Morrigan PG but I could influence Alistair to have it with her.) Flemeth hint's that there is more than the archdemons to worry about. She wants the OG's saved but that is not something she isn't worried about causing harm to the world. There is a greater evil afoot. That is DAO2 story. We will just have to wait and see.

And to make it more confusing is one of the talks Zevran and Morrigan have when both are in the group. My take on it was Zevran was telling of a legend of an Antivan Witch of the Wilds named Morrigan. If she could be two people, maybe she could be three.