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[Swoo]

For those like me that aren't really Toolset-diggers:

From the thread, as posted by Gilsa.

Flemeth: "And so you return." (as she knew you would)
Flemeth: "Lovely
Morrigan has at last found someone willing to dance to her tune. Such
enchanting music she plays, wouldn't you say?" (she knows that Morrigan
has sent the player here to kill her, at some level she's impressed her
daughter finally managed it)
PC: "We know your little secret,
Flemeth."
Flemeth: "Laughs Which one, I
wonder?" (a great big laugh, oh this is funny)
Flemeth: "What has
Morrigan told you, hmm? What little plan has she hatched this time?"
(she doesn't really want to know but she is intrigued)
PC: "She knows how you extend your unnatural
lifespan."
Flemeth: "That she does. The question is, do you?" (she
knows very well Morrigan has lied to the player)
Flemeth: "Ahhh,
but it is an old, old story. One that Flemeth has heard before... and
even told." (waving off the details as unimportant -- she knows Morrigan
has betrayed her, and since she' s betrayed many others she doesn't
really take it personally)
Flemeth: "Let us skip right to the ending,
shall we? Do you slay the old wretch as Morrigan bids? Or does the tale
take a different turn?" (a bit eager to cut to the chase, "old wretch"
said with amusement as it's what Morrigan would call her -- basically
she's saying "will you do what Morrigan tells you to or something
else?")
PC: What do you propose?
Flemeth: "Morrigan wishes my
grimoire? Take it as a trophy. Tell her I am slain." (as if this were
nothing, "here take the thing that means nothing to me)
PC: I could
do that.
Flemeth: "It's far easier this way, don't you think? The
lies are always more fun." (enjoying it)
Flemeth: "The book is inside
the hut, with notes and spells enough to make even Morrigan blush with
delight." (as if the book is worthless and Morrigan is a fool to want
it)
Flemeth: "You and I will not meet again.
That I guarantee." (enigmatic, said with a wicked
smile)

-----OR--------

PC: "Is it true you intend to take
Morrigan's body?"
Flemeth: "Laughs Oh, I do
like that." (she finds this to be very funny -- this is the story that
Morrigan told? How cute! Obviously, she's also NOT answering the
question)

Modifié par Swoo, 16 mai 2010 - 08:09 .

[Swoo]

I find it pretty interesting. One thing to consider is that it's possible to do the whole Flemeth quest before being in a relationship with Morrigan (I myself always wait because I think it's Top 5 dialogue in the game, easily) so it wouldn't be shocking to consider her leaving out valuable information and even using the Warden at that time. I mean, hell, she said she expected the Warden to kick her out of camp at any minute up until the tent scene.



I'll have to reread and think about it. I don't think Morrigan was lying about the bodyswapping, she seemed pretty disturbed and shocked by the entire thing and the notes don't seem to give away any deception on her part. I think her memories of Flemeth being much younger also support the theory. So the machination on her part has to be something else, some sort of either personal or theological difference of some sort, perhaps the endgame plan of the OGB. But yeah, will have to think on what to see what makes sense.

[Master Shiori]

I posted my thoughts about it on the previous page.

My guess is that Morrigan and flemeth had different ideas when it came to the god child and each wanted it for a different reason.
The details about the DR and god child could have been in one of Flemeth's grimoires and Morrigan manipulated the pc into getting it for her by making him believe the woman he loves is in danger and needs his protection.


This is my opinion of Morrigan atm:

David Gaider said that Morrigan's mission (getting the god child) isn't important because Flemeth told her to do it. It was important because Morrigan herself believed so. She could easily have her own plans for the child and, because of that, doesn't want Flemeth to get it.
Flemeth is probably aware that Morrigan plans to betray her at some point. The reason Morrigan wants to grimoire could be because there is information there that she would find useful, either by better understanding Flemeth's power or by learnign more about the god child and DR.
Personaly, I think Morrigan didn't lie when she told the Warden that she was hoping to find a map of power that Flemeth commands. She only lied about Flemeth planning to posses her body.

She probably wanted to get close to the pc in order to seduce him (if male) or become her friend (if female) so she could have him/her kill Flemeth.
However, in doing so, she didn't count on actualy developing true feelings for the pc and after he gives her the real grimoire without asking for a reward in return Morrigan realizes that she's fallen in love without wanting it.
This is where her inner conflict starts. On one hand she knows that she'll ultimately end up using the warden and leave once he makes her pregnant, but on the other hand she finds herself wanting to be feel the warden's love.
I think this is why she considers love to be a weakness, since it's the one thing that could ultimately make her abandon her plans for the sake of personal happiness.

EDIT:

Ofc, the chances are some of these notes in the toolset are outdated and may not be true anymore.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 16 mai 2010 - 08:24 .

[Swoo]

Master Shiori wrote...

I posted my thoughts about it on the previous page.

My guess is that Morrigan and flemeth had different ideas when it came to the god child and each wanted it for a different reason.
The details about the DR and god child could have been in one of Flemeth's grimoires and Morrigan manipulated the pc into getting it for her by making him believe the woman he loves is in danger and needs his protection.


This is my opinion of Morrigan atm:

David Gaider said that Morrigan's mission (getting the god child) isn't important because Flemeth told her to do it. It was important because Morrigan herself believed so. She could easily have her own plans for the child and, because of that, doesn't want Flemeth to get it.
Flemeth is probably aware that Morrigan plans to betray her at some point. The reason Morrigan wants to grimoire could be because there is information there that she would find useful, either by better understanding Flemeth's power or by learnign more about the god child and DR.
Personaly, I think Morrigan didn't lie when she told the Warden that she was hoping to find a map of power that Flemeth commands. She only lied about Flemeth planning to posses her body.

She probably wanted to get close to the pc in order to seduce him (if male) or become her friend (if female) so she could have him/her kill Flemeth.
However, in doing so, she didn't count on actualy developing true feelings for the pc and after he gives her the real grimoire without asking for a reward in return Morrigan realizes that she's fallen in love without wanting it.
This is where her inner conflict starts. On one hand she knows that she'll ultimately end up using the warden and leave once he makes her pregnant, but on the other hand she finds herself wanting to be feel the warden's love.
I think this is why she considers love to be a weakness, since it's the one thing that could ultimately make her abandon her plans for the sake of personal happiness.

EDIT:

Ofc, the chances are some of these notes in the toolset are outdated and may not be true anymore.

I like that, and agree with quite a bit. I just don't know if I can buy the bodyswap being a lie. It just seems to mesh too well with other information you've gotten in the game (Flemeth and her multiple daughters, and the stories from several different groups with no connection to each other that Flemeth hunted them down), and she really did seem taken aback and furious when she got the first book. I believe in a confrontation with Shale she even offered to teach her to read the book to see for herself what was up. Add into it Morrigan mentioning she can remember her mother being very youthful (could be a lie I guess, but if you go that route then you just have to accept that it's pathological and nothing can be trusted), and Flemeth being an  unashamed manipulator and betrayer...I think she was probably legit about that.

Brings up the question then, what was the lie about. Do we have enough information to get a close clue about it, or not quite yet?

And Brock, I think the *maybe* evil plans could just be a matter of perspective. If she raises up the Old God Baby to topple the Chantry and bring back the worship of Dumat and Company, well, that could be seen as kind of maybe evil by some.

[bl00dsh0t]

Addai67 wrote...
Over in the Alistair thread, people were talking about a VO note that says "Flemeth knows that Morrigan has lied to the PC."  This is a note in the conversation when you go to kill Flemeth.  What do you make of it?  In context it sounds like it means that Morrigan is lying about Flemeth's intent to possess Morrigan, though the lie could also refer to what the PC has been told about Morrigan's reason for wanting to go along.

Very interesting indeed!

The question does remain what lie they are referring to, but I think the "lie" in question is bound to be the body snatching story. I don't think the reason for going with the warden lie is significant enough for them to make notes for flemeth, nor does the entire conversation with flemeth have anything to do with that. Also in some weird way I never got the vibe of flemeth being completely evil and heartless. Morrigan even seemed a bit sad when flemeth states that if they don't stop the blight she will perish as well (the "i don't want to return to a burnt down hut" conversation where morrigan suggests that flemeth will leave the stew on the fire too long). Allthough she repeatedly states that she dislikes her mother, that scene often catches me off guard as it shows that there is some form of mother-daughter relationship in there somewhere.

Still this does raise the question whether or not morrigan had an actual good reason to lie about the matter. Perhaps the key to flemeths immortality lies with the ogb and morrigan wants to use it for herself? Not something i like to think about, but not impossible.

It is likely that flemeths method is something fairly despicable, but morrigan objecting to doing something despicable to increase the likelyhood of survival is not exactly unheard of (elven slaves is really the only example but still). Therefore I would expect the method to involve or affect morrigan in a way significant enough for her to take action. Either by harming her directly or by it robbing her of the potential immortality spell.

Still what has to be taken into account is also that these are notes to the voiceactor on how to deliver the lines, not necessarily an absolute truth. Since flemeth does seem to have some way to see into the future she could anticipate the question and seed doubt in the wardens mind to throw him/her off and take some of the motivation of her future opponent.

Morrigans reaction is previously stated pretty powerfull, but then again that could also just be deception on her part. Morrigan does state that she is pretty good at deception when she tells the story of how she avoided getting killed in town when a chasind realized she was a witch of the wilds.

Sigh so much uncertainty.... I'm in dire need of some bloody closure in this matter, I can't waste this large of a chunk of my life speculating god damnit:D

[Master Shiori]

She does actually ask your pc to start a relationship with her.



It happens after you complete her personal quest and you must not have started her romance yet or said anything that would make the romance impossible.



After you give her the grimoire and she says her thanks, the first time you click on her to initiate a new conversation she will start talking about how she never had a male friend. During this conversation (if you choose "I saved you from Flemeth because I'm your friend") she will ask if the 2 of you could ever be more then just friends. If you reply with "I have thought about it" the romance will start.

[Brockololly]

Went through and read the VA notes for the Ritual scene and some of the other Morrigan ones. Here are a bunch of the more interesting ones. Make of them what you will:
---------------
---------------
*DR scene*

Morrigan: After this is done, you allow me to walk away... and you do not follow. Ever. The child will be mine to raise as I wish. (VA note: firm- there is no negotiation on this point)

Morrigan: Allow me to say that what I seek is the essence of the Old God that once was and not the dark forces that corrupted it. (VA notes: she is not telling him everything-- she is talking very carefully)

Morrigan: Some things are worth preserving in this world. Make of that what you will. (VA note: enigmatic)

Morrigan: The child will represent freedom for an ancient power, a chance to be reborn apart from the taint. Is that not reason enough to do it? (VA note: she doesn't think the player could ever understand it really, but there it is)

Morrigan: I will raise the child apart from the rest of society, and teach it to respect that from which it came. Beyond that you need know nothing else. (VA note: this is as much as she is willing to say-- very begrudging)

Morrigan: Caring for you as I've come to... that was not part of the plan. (VA note: she is reluctant to admit her true feelings)

Morrigan: After the archdemon has been slain? No. No, you will never see me again.( VA note: this hurts her, too, but she will never admit it)

Morrigan: Refuse my offer, however, and I leave now. This is... simply how it must be. (VA note: reluctant, this hurts him as much as it hurts her)
------------------
-------------------
*This is the scene where you come back after trying to convince Alistair or Loghain to do the DR*

PC: Morrigan, I don't want to lose you.

Morrigan: Don't be a fool. I am already lost. (VA note: she says this gently, almost with exasperation-- she loves the player but this is already done)

Morrigan: This must be done. For your sake, as well as my own. I... I told you that this could not be, did I not? (VA note: she falls apart a little-- she is in love with the player even though it can never be)

Morrigan: Go. Do  what you must. ( VA note: Her heart is breaking here, and she cuts him off)
--------------------------
--------------------------
* the dialogue when she gives the PC the ring*

PC: So I could find you, if need be?
Morrigan: I... do not know. As I said, I never tested it. Perhaps. (VA note: uncertain, maybe even a little bothered by the idea)

-------------------
-------------------
*The gates of Denerim convo, if you take her into your party*

PC: I will find you Morrigan. I swear it.
Morrigan: I do not think that would be wise. (VA note: grim)

PC: I was hoping you might have changed your mind.
Morrigan: It... is tempting. You do not know how much. But, no. That would not be wise. (VA notes: heartbroken, but she won't let love dictate her actions)

Morrigan: Sigh Allow me to say only one thing before we go. (VA note: taking a deep breath-- she is about to say something that she has been rehearsing in her head, her emotions are very strong here)

Morrigan: I was foolish. This could have been so much easier, yet I... cannot regret what was between us. (VA note: she fell in love when she shouldn't have)

Morrigan: I will always remember you...my love. (VA note: this isn;t easy for her to say -- but she feels she has to say it, at the same time she is heartbroken)
------------------------------
------------------------------
*If you leave Morrigan at the gates of Denerim*

PC: I love you Morrigan.
Morrigan: And so you... make it difficult for me, do you? ( VA note: she didn't want to say goodbye like this-- near tears and she HATES displays of emotion)

Morrigan: Go, slay the archdemon. Live long and well... my love. (VA note: this is very hard for her to say-- she will never see him again)
------------------
------------------
*After killing Flemeth and giving her the Grimoire*

PC: I will always protect you Morrigan.
Morrigan: I... you should not be so... you have no idea what will happen in days to come, to make such promises. (VA notes: she was not expecting this response--she knows she is lying to the player and will eventually have to betray him. To have him declare his feelings really throws her.)

--------------------
--------------------
*Last conversation when asking about last night- these aren't in any particular order*

Morrigan: I... yes. If it shall make this easier... then yes, that is all it was. An entanglement and nothing more.(VA note: her facade is cracking here-- she does care deeply for the player, she just can't let her feelings get in the way)

PC: If thats what you really want.
Morrigan: It is. What happens now happens because destiny demands it. (VA note: grim)

* I think this one is rather interesting...*

Morrigan: What was done had to be done. I regret it not. Let us not complicate matters further.(VA note: firm)
PC: If that is what you really want.
Morrigan: It is. You have no idea. (VA note: intense-- he REALLY has no idea)
Morrigan: But let us not forget that you got something out of this, as well. Your life. (VA note: crisp)
Morrigan: If you wish to spend that life being resentful of me, by all means. But it lasts only so long as the child inside me does. (VA note: crisp)
Morrigan: Now let us finish this and be done. (VA note: said with a ring of finality)
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------

SO, whats the take home message with all of this? I have no clue- we just need E3 to get here soon cause I'd like to know whether or not this speculation is all for naught when Gaider and crew  dictate DA2 has a new hero and we never see Morrigan again:crying:

Modifié par Brockololly, 16 mai 2010 - 09:15 .

[Master Shiori]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

She does actually ask your pc to start a relationship with her.

It happens after you complete her personal quest and you must not have started her romance yet or said anything that would make the romance impossible.

After you give her the grimoire and she says her thanks, the first time you click on her to initiate a new conversation she will start talking about how she never had a male friend. During this conversation (if you choose "I saved you from Flemeth because I'm your friend") she will ask if the 2 of you could ever be more then just friends. If you reply with "I have thought about it" the romance will start.

That happens after you kill Flemeth and I don't remember it going that way.

I remember it differently, if you say that she will mention that she doesn't understand that part about friendship. She tells that she has been with men physically before and that she thought that it was impossible to be friends with a man. And she doesn't mention anything about being more than friends.

She did to my character, even though he was in a romance with Leliana at he time.

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Went through and read the VA notes for the Ritual scene and some of the other Morrigan ones. Here are a bunch of the more interesting ones. Make of them what you will:
---------------
---------------
*DR scene*

Morrigan: After this is done, you allow me to walk away... and you do not follow. Ever. The child will be mine to raise as I wish. (VA note: firm- there is no negotiation on this point)

Morrigan: Allow me to say that what I seek is the essence of the Old God that once was and not the dark forces that corrupted it. (VA notes: she is not telling him everything-- she is talking very carefully)

Morrigan: Some things are worth preserving in this world. Make of that what you will. (VA note: enigmatic)

Morrigan: The child will represent freedom for an ancient power, a chance to be reborn apart from the taint. Is that not reason enough to do it? (VA note: she doesn't think the player could ever understand it really, but there it is)

Morrigan: I will raise the child apart from the rest of society, and teach it to respect that from which it came. Beyond that you need know nothing else. (VA note: this is as much as she is willing to say-- very begrudging)

Morrigan: Caring for you as I've come to... that was not part of the plan. (VA note: she is reluctant to admit her true feelings)

Morrigan: After the archdemon has been slain? No. No, you will never see me again.( VA note: this hurts her, too, but she will never admit it)

Morrigan: Refuse my offer, however, and I leave now. This is... simply how it must be. (VA note: reluctant, this hurts him as much as it hurts her)
------------------
-------------------
*This is the scene where you come back after trying to convince Alistair or Loghain to do the DR*

PC: Morrigan, I don't want to lose you.

Morrigan: Don't be a fool. I am already lost. (VA note: she says this gently, almost with exasperation-- she loves the player but this is already done)

Morrigan: This must be done. For your sake, as well as my own. I... I told you that this could not be, did I not? (VA note: she falls apart a little-- she is in love with the player even though it can never be)

Morrigan: Go. Do  what you must. ( VA note: Her heart is breaking here, and she cuts him off)
--------------------------
--------------------------
* the dialogue when she gives the PC the ring*

PC: So I could find you, if need be?
Morrigan: I... do not know. As I said, I never tested it. Perhaps. (VA note: uncertain, maybe even a little bothered by the idea)

-------------------
-------------------
*The gates of Denerim convo, if you take her into your party*

PC: I will find you Morrigan. I swear it.
Morrigan: I do not think that would be wise. (VA note: grim)

PC: I was hoping you might have changed your mind.
Morrigan: It... is tempting. You do not know how much. But, no. That would not be wise. (VA notes: heartbroken, but she won't let love dictate her actions)

Morrigan: Sigh Allow me to say only one thing before we go. (VA note: taking a deep breath-- she is about to say something that she has been rehearsing in her head, her emotions are very strong here)

Morrigan: I was foolish. This could have been so much easier, yet I... cannot regret what was between us. (VA note: she fell in love when she shouldn't have)

Morrigan: I will always remember you...my love. (VA note: this isn;t easy for her to say -- but she feels she has to say it, at the same time she is heartbroken)
------------------------------
------------------------------
*If you leave Morrigan at the gates of Denerim*

PC: I love you Morrigan.
Morrigan: And so you... make it difficult for me, do you? ( VA note: she didn't want to say goodbye like this-- near tears and she HATES displays of emotion)

Morrigan: Go, slay the archdemon. Live long and well... my love. (VA note: this is very hard for her to say-- she will never see him again)
------------------
------------------
*After killing Flemeth and giving her the Grimoire*

PC: I will always protect you Morrigan.
Morrigan: I... you should not be so... you have no idea what will happen in days to come, to make such promises. (VA notes: she was not expecting this response--she knows she is lying to the player and will eventually have to betray him. To have him declare his feelings really throws her.)

--------------------
--------------------
*Last conversation when asking about last night- these aren't in any particular order*

Morrigan: I... yes. If it shall make this easier... then yes, that is all it was. An entanglement and nothing more.(VA note: her facade is cracking here-- she does care deeply for the player, she just can't let her feelings get in the way)

PC: If thats what you really want.
Morrigan: It is. What happens now happens because destiny demands it. (VA note: grim)

* I think this one is rather interesting...*

Morrigan: What was done had to be done. I regret it not. Let us not complicate matters further.(VA note: firm)
PC: If that is what you really want.
Morrigan: It is. You have no idea. (VA note: intense-- he REALLY has no idea)
Morrigan: But let us not forget that you got something out of this, as well. Your life. (VA note: crisp)
Morrigan: If you wish to spend that life being resentful of me, by all means. But it lasts only so long as the child inside me does. (VA note: crisp)
Morrigan: Now let us finish this and be done. (VA note: said with a ring of finality)
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------

SO, whats the take home message with all of this? I have no clue- we just need E3 to get here soon cause I'd like to know whether or not this speculation is all for naught when Gaider and crew  dictate DA2 has a new hero and we never see Morrigan again:crying:

The message, at least to me, is what we pretty much knew so far:

1) Morrigan truly loves the warden
2) She isn't willing to reveal the details of her plan to him
3) She doesn't want him to follow her

Nothing new here. No answers to our questions nor new insight about Morrigan.
The only thing that this confirms is that Morrigan is pretty important and we'll almost ceirtainly see her again in the future.
The question is whether we'll do so with our warden or a new character.

I'll just repeat what I've said before: Bioware and David Gaider love to pull our heartstrings and make us shed tears for their characters. Whatever emotions the player may have towards Morrigan, they are all tied in our warden. If you wish to make that pay off in the best possible way then the warden needs to be the one to track her down and get to the bottom of this mistery.

[blademaster7]

Surely it doesn't surprise you guys that you are a pawn no matter what you choose to do with her side quest, right?

Why do you think Morrigan refuses to go with you back to the hut? Because Flemeth will possess her on the spot? Well, maybe.. but that's not the only reason IMO. If you refuse to help Morrigan(or tell her that you let Flemeth live-- you can thank Terra_ex for restoring that in the mod btw) she will immediately leave the party and tell you that she will deal with Flemeth herself.

She obviously want's her dead but she doesn't want to confront her with you around. Reminds me of the Zatrhian/Witherfang story. Things will get ugly and they will probably spill out information you weren't supposed to know(you aren't vulnerable enough just yet to drop the DR bomb on you). Flemeth doesn't show up for the very same reason. Morrigan will tell you that Flemeth left because she sensed her and doesn't want to confront her.  Again, you can thank Terra_ex for restoring this scene.

I read those comments a while back(I did scan the whole thing and pointed out a thousand bugs if you didn't notice) but I wasn't surprised in the least. Nothing new.

I don't think she lied about the possesion. What Morrigan saw in the grimoire was apparently disturbing enough to make her turn against her mother. Some evidence in the game show that Flemeth possessing her daughters may not be completely BS after all. The robes of possession as mentioned above are something to think about and the fact that there are no other daughters about makes Flemeth a bit suspicious. There is also that comic they made before the release which shows that Flemeth has some plans for Morrigan... I don't know where to find it though.

Modifié par blademaster7, 16 mai 2010 - 09:48 .

[Brockololly]

blademaster7 wrote..

I don't think she lied about the possesion. What Morrigan saw in the grimoire was apparently disturbing enough to make her turn against her mother. Some evidence in the game show that Flemeth possessing her daughters may not be completely BS after all. The robes of possession as mentioned above are something to think about and the fact that there are no other daughters about makes Flemeth a bit suspicious. There is also that comic they made before the release which shows that Flemeth has some plans for Morrigan... I don't know where to find it though.

I don't know- the way they've structured everything with the codex and what not gives the writers alot of wiggle room as far as the "truth" goes in DA. But I'm not so sure Morrigan is one for just outright lying. Rather she likely just gives the PC some lies of omission, like her plans with the Old God Baby, where she clearly is not telling the PC the whole story.

I think you mean the Penny Arcade comic, right? http://dragonage.bio...m/pennyarcade/1
Last page is where Flemeth says to Morrigan "You are a perfect creature and perfect for my purposes."

Modifié par Brockololly, 16 mai 2010 - 10:04 .

[Master Shiori]

I'd also like to point out that what makes David Gaider such an excellent writer is the fact that he never let's the players see the whole picture of what's happening, even if the answers are sometimes right in front of them.

Here's an example:

Baldur's Gate 2
You have Viconia, an exiled drow very similar to Morrigan in character. You romance her only to find it's a rocky ride where your lover is conflicted over her feelings. She is also hunted by her old goddess and her followers, which is why she doesn't believe your relationship can end happily. In short she values survival over love.
The player, ofc, is persistant in wanting the romance to work. He comes to accept Viconia even though her view on morality is questionable at best and he even goes so far as to protect her when her past finally caches up to her.
At the end she says that she'll never be safe and, after calling the pc "her love", leaves in order to protect him from the danger that already hunts her.
Sounds familiar? Not unlike a ceirtain witch we know and love.

Fast forward to the expansion and the 2 of you are reunited. She comes to accept that future is unceirtain and is willing to make the best of what you have now. So the 2 of you fight your way through the game, hand in hand, and kill the big bad at the end.
You made it! Now you can lay back, enjoy your time with Viconia and the son she gave you.
Ups! Remember that evil goddess and her minions?
They eventualy catch up with you and assassinate your lover.
There's your tragedy with a bittersweet ending.

While Morrigan's story doesn't need to play out the same way, I believe that this example shows that things are never as you expect when it comes to Gaider's writing.

I'm sure that we'll see plenty of suprises when it comes to Morrigan and the Warden. Many things that we know now may turn out to be something entirely different when seen from a different perspective or in different context.

What I do know is that everyone who's played DA:O has experienced ceirtain emotions when it comes to Morrigan and all these emotions (whether they be love, friendship, hate, betrayal, sorrow or pain) are tied up in the Warden. Gaider knows this.
You can be sure he isn't going to let such a potential payoff go to waste. If for no other reason then to see our tears. They're supposed to be quite delicious...

EDIT: Correcting typos

Modifié par Master Shiori, 16 mai 2010 - 10:20 .

[blademaster7]

You know, I chuckle every time I hear someone say that Morrigan doesn't lie(yes I even chuckle to my self because I believe it). She doesn't outright lie in your face, that's true. But there is a fine line between lying and not telling the truth.

She was evasive during the DR because she didn't want to throw a bunch of lies in your face, but honestly, it doesn't make any difference to me. Evasiveness and deception are far worse than lies in some instances. You can spot a lie and get to the bottom of it. You can't draw a conclusion from something you are not told(lie or not) and that makes it worse than lying IMO. Perhaps that is the reason she doesn't lie... it adds to her charm mystery

Modifié par blademaster7, 16 mai 2010 - 10:25 .

[Master Shiori]

blademaster7 wrote...

You know, I chuckle every time I hear someone say that Morrigan doesn't lie. She doesn't outright lie in your face, that's true. But there is a fine line between lying and not telling the truth.

She was evasive during the DR because she didn't want to throw a bunch of lies in your face, but honestly, it doesn't make any difference to me. Evasiveness and deception are far worse than lies in some instances. You can spot a lie and get to the bottom of it. You can't draw a conclusion from something you are not told(lie or not) and that makes it worse than lying IMO. Perhaps that is the reason she doesn't lie... it adds to her charm mystery

Well Blademstaster, nobody said she was a saint.

We knew from her description, even before the game came out, that she was going to be a pretty dark character.
She has both good and bad points.

The thing that makes her so appealing to me personaly is that I can never be quite sure what to expect.
I knew the first time she gave me her personal quest that there's probably something she's not telling me. I also suspected she didn't come along just to help me kill the darkspawn.
Yet even with all this I came to love her when I saw her vulnerable side and how conflicted she was over her emotions.
I had a feeling things wouldn't end well, even if I didn't suspect what would happen at the end.

Unlike Leliana and Alistair where you can pretty much see what they're about, with Morrigan you get a pretty complex character that may love you, but that doesn't mean you won't get hurt.

I know this maight make me sound like a masochist, but it's exactly this kind of characters and this kind of romance that really bring out my feelings.
You know it's likely to end badly, but it's this same knowledge that makes you determined to fight all the harder for your lover and your happy ending. Even though you may not end up getting what you want...

[Master Shiori]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

I have a question - in BG, what happens if you romanced someone other than Viconia? Do their romances continue in the sequal or are they ignored?

What happens with Viconia if you don't romance her?

In BG1 there are no romances.

In BG2 a male character can romance Jaheira, Aerie and Viconia.
Sadly I don't remember what happens to Viconia if you don't romance her. There might be a video of that on Youtube.

[blademaster7]

Leliana's romance is pretty straightforward. Just say hello and she''ll love you forever and ever. Alistair is a bit complicated.



It is complicated because you have to reload a couple of times to get it right.(VO comment: blademaster is rolling his eyes).

[Master Shiori]

blademaster7 wrote...

Leliana's romance is pretty straightforward. Just say hello and she''ll love you forever and ever. Alistair is a bit complicated.

It is complicated because you have to reload a couple of times to get it right.(VO comment: blademaster is rolling his eyes).

Alistair is only complicated if you don't harden him and try to make him king. And this issomething you can see coming since he loves reminding you that he doesn't want the throne.
The only part where he will surprise you is if you refuse DR and take him with you to fight the Archdemon.

Morrigan is whole new level by comparison.
You can never be sure of anything when it comes to her, except that she will truly love your warden when romanced.

This is what makes her so interesting. No matter how hard you try or what you do, you're never guaranteed a happy ending.
This is why we just might see some kind of pleasant surprise in the future. Right now nobody knows what to expect, but we know this is a dark fantasy and Morrigan's story is a tragedy in DA:O. Will it remain a tragedy or are we in for more suprises and twists?

Considering how she thinks love is a weakness yet cannot avoid falling in love with the Warden, I can imagine David being all sneaky and painting for us a pretty bleak picture just to throw us a bone in the end and say "gotcha!!".

Might not happen, but at this point anything is a fair guess.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 16 mai 2010 - 11:07 .

[Swoo]

Whoa, what the hell?

Morrigan: If you wish to spend that life being resentful of me, by all means. But it lasts only so long as the child inside me does.

I don't remember this at all. And people say that there's no real reason to continue playing the OG character or a Warden even. /snort



And the Dark Ritual Voice Over notes are for the 'We are not friends' default setting, with some of the cut lover one mixed in. Damn, I really want to see what Gaider wrote at least for the high approval romances.