We are going a little off topic. Anyways, I just read this old interview from Kate Mulgrew. She gives some insight into the relationship that Morrigan and Flemeth have.
TC: You mention the relationship between Flemeth and her daughter. Is that a large part of what drives this character?
KM: Well, she has produced many daughters. And she can become her daughters. So she uses her daughters. Her daughters are really there to serve her more diabolical needs. However, even within that reality, Flemeth can be touched by her daughter. And she is touched by Morrigan, because Morrigan is innocent. She is beautiful. She is vulnerable. She is accessible. She is everything that Flemeth once was. So we realize through Morrigan than Flemeth is touchable, moveable, is still attainable on one level. That's why I say this videogame is very evolved. It's very unexpected. I think it's going to be very very popular. Don't you?
THE Morrigan Discussion and Research Thread *Infested with Bugs Yet Again!*
Débuté par
Brockololly
, mars 19 2010 07:14
Retour en haut
#2152
Posté 19 mai 2010 - 09:58
Brockololly
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Yeah I remember reading that interview a while ago. I don't really take too much from any of those sorts of interviews ultimately. I mean the voice actors and actresses likely don't have too much more info into the motives and machinations of the characters than we do by looking at the toolset really.
But with respect to that interview- I'd agree that basically, Morrigan is kind of like a younger version of what Flemeth might have been like a loooong time ago. Question is, does Morrigan end up being like Flemeth or does she take her own path?
But with respect to that interview- I'd agree that basically, Morrigan is kind of like a younger version of what Flemeth might have been like a loooong time ago. Question is, does Morrigan end up being like Flemeth or does she take her own path?
#2153
Posté 19 mai 2010 - 10:11
Master Shiori
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She is right.
Morrigan is truly all these things once you get to know her. She may have read about the world and it's people, but has very little experience with how to deal with them. This makes her innocent, like a child experiencing the wider world for the first time. Her awe at life in Denerim, her saying she wishes to witness mountains, see the ocean and swim in it's depths all show this.
Her beauty is clearly evident and if you listen to Leliana recounting the legend of Flemeth you'll realize that Flemeth, in her youth, was almost indentical to Morrigan in her looks.
The vulnerable part is also true. Morrigan may be a self-reliant, strong willed woman but there are points in the game where she shows her more vulnerable side.
Not sure if accessible only refers to the fact that Morrigan is free and capable of building a relationship with a man if she so choses. Maybe it's refering to something else but the meaning currently escapes me.
The point of this is that it strikes me as tragic how Morrigan may be set to make the same mistakes and choices that Flemeth herself once made. She desires power and obviously the god child may well be a tool to achieve this. Like Flemeth she has also lost the person she loves, although in Morrigan's case this was by her own choice rather then fate.
I dread to think that ultimately, even if she never gets possessed, Morrigan may turn into another Flemeth.
I'd like to think that the love my Warden and Morrigan shared may have chnaged her for the better, if only a little, but I fear it may ultimately prove to have been nothing more than a pleasant memory.
A reminder of a happier time that is now lost to Morrigan forever.
Morrigan is truly all these things once you get to know her. She may have read about the world and it's people, but has very little experience with how to deal with them. This makes her innocent, like a child experiencing the wider world for the first time. Her awe at life in Denerim, her saying she wishes to witness mountains, see the ocean and swim in it's depths all show this.
Her beauty is clearly evident and if you listen to Leliana recounting the legend of Flemeth you'll realize that Flemeth, in her youth, was almost indentical to Morrigan in her looks.
The vulnerable part is also true. Morrigan may be a self-reliant, strong willed woman but there are points in the game where she shows her more vulnerable side.
Not sure if accessible only refers to the fact that Morrigan is free and capable of building a relationship with a man if she so choses. Maybe it's refering to something else but the meaning currently escapes me.
The point of this is that it strikes me as tragic how Morrigan may be set to make the same mistakes and choices that Flemeth herself once made. She desires power and obviously the god child may well be a tool to achieve this. Like Flemeth she has also lost the person she loves, although in Morrigan's case this was by her own choice rather then fate.
I dread to think that ultimately, even if she never gets possessed, Morrigan may turn into another Flemeth.
I'd like to think that the love my Warden and Morrigan shared may have chnaged her for the better, if only a little, but I fear it may ultimately prove to have been nothing more than a pleasant memory.
A reminder of a happier time that is now lost to Morrigan forever.
#2154
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 12:46
Ash Wind
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Really... can you even call this writing? Though I am sure it isn't true (well... pretty sure), it almost seems like the codexes were put together 20 minutes before it was available for download. Clearly the amount of time it took to contrive the mess that is this universe is measured in minutes not hours.Terra_Ex wrote...
I'd like to know if the original writers had *anything* to do with this DLC. To me it's just gratuitous violence, akin to a random massacre that happens about of the blue - utterly pointless. I fail to see the appeal of this product.
But... it was interesting to discover that the PC surviving the Joining apparently was the flashpoint that caused Sten to kill the farmers, and Morrigan doesn't want to do the DR, she just wants to mock Alistair.
Really... for the next DLC, spend at least 2 hours on the writing.
#2155
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 01:10
Barbarossa2010
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Addai67 wrote...
Egad, reading those David Gaider comments makes me embarrassed on behalf of Bioware. The writer mocked a mod (and rightly so), then his own company went on to make a DLC with the exact same appeal.
As I asked over in the Alistair thread, why are we supposed to respect their material when they obviously don't respect it themselves?
Excellent point Addai. I was thinking the exact same thing as I read it. Also found it very strange that he would spend any capital dressing down a modder, even if that mod was extraordinarily stupid.
Weird...but not unexpected I guess.
#2156
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 01:12
Efesell
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Maria13 wrote...
Yes DSC sort of messes all over DAO doesn't it?
I don't think it harms Origins in even the slightest of ways.
#2157
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 01:15
Barbarossa2010
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Brockololly wrote...
Its like a scary bit of foreshadowing. Its got to suck for the writers though- I'm convinced they don't have much to do with the DLC and then to see something like DC get released where it basically runs all over everything from Origins (even if its just supposed to be an "alternate universe")...
All the more reason to be especially careful in your story telling.
If you ask me, it's collateral damage from a bizarre love affair with open-ended endings and dangling threads; but that's probably worth a thread itself.
#2158
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 01:21
Barbarossa2010
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errant_knight wrote...
Brockololly wrote...
errant_knight wrote...
Not to mention that it ignores all the work that went into characterization of the companions--their likes, dislikes, and priorities. For a lot of them, it takes decisions that they were against and had had to be convinced of, and makes them do them with no explanation. It pretty much gives the middle finger to everything about Origins.
Right- I mean I'm not expecting any grand cinematics or anything in DC but if you're going to try and market it as an "alternate universe" at least try and make it make sense given what we know about the characters from Origins. As it is, it just seems like they went "Hey werewolves and golems are cool and tough, lets throw them in!" If they gave some rationale, even in the codex, for those sort of head scratching moments, I'd be ok. But they don't even try to make sense of this alternate world they created.
Perhaps I'm just expecting too much out of this sort of DLC, but when you market something as being a big "what-if" story, even if I'm just playing as a mindless darkspawn, it would be nice to know the "why" behind the "what-if." Instead its just one big "HUR DUR! KILL KILL KILL!" And thats fine, just don't try and dress it up as being some emotionally engaging story meant to "tug at the heartstrings" when the final blow on Alistair turns him into a freakin' pinata blowing up with giblets.
Maybe I'm being MYOPIC here but it just seems like the expansions and DLC are being done by the second stringers at BioWare and they just don't get what made Origins so successful. I get that you're limited with budget and such working on DLC and ex-packs, but instead of making me more interested in Dragon Age, all the DLC and Awakening have done is made me more skeptical and less interested in the direction they are seemingly taking the Dragon Age franchise.
I'm sure there are people that love the DLC and Awakening, but with each passing DA product thats come out, I'm just left dumbstruck, thinking "WTF BioWare?!?"
!00% agreement. That's exactly how I feel about it--confused and disappointed. Very disappointed.
Go ahead and add me to the rolls of the disappointed. I'm fairly certain that that's not exactly a revelation to anyone here.
#2159
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 01:33
Brockololly
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Barbarossa2010 wrote...
Addai67 wrote...
Egad, reading those David Gaider comments makes me embarrassed on behalf of Bioware. The writer mocked a mod (and rightly so), then his own company went on to make a DLC with the exact same appeal.
As I asked over in the Alistair thread, why are we supposed to respect their material when they obviously don't respect it themselves?
Excellent point Addai. I was thinking the exact same thing as I read it. Also found it very strange that he would spend any capital dressing down a modder, even if that mod was extraordinarily stupid.
Weird...but not unexpected I guess.
Well for the sake of context to those Gaider quotes here is the aforementioned thread: http://social.biowar...47/index/448678
At the time though the OP in that thread was just spamming the decapitated Morrigan pictures and vids all over the place. The irony, that 6 months later BioWare would basically make the same thing and sell it for $5...*headdesk*
#2160
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 01:42
Efesell
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I uh.. am seeing quite a difference here between what DSC has done and what was being done there.
#2161
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 01:43
Barbarossa2010
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I hear a lot of talk about budgets for DLC, but let's be honest, from everything I hear of the most recent DA offering, a handful of modders could have done DC in a weekend probably for a case of beer each.
That thing is pure profit. A bunch of little Lincoln's add up after a while.
That thing is pure profit. A bunch of little Lincoln's add up after a while.
#2162
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 01:45
Barbarossa2010
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Sorry, scratch my previous post. I was suffering from temporary myopia. I'm much better now.
#2163
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 01:47
Efesell
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From what you hear? Are you hating on it without playing it at all?
Wait why would I be surprised at this.
Wait why would I be surprised at this.
#2164
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 01:49
TheSixthghoul
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If anyone is interested in voting on the collector chronicles social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/47/index/448678
#2165
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 02:09
Brockololly
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Barbarossa2010 wrote...
I hear a lot of talk about budgets for DLC, but let's be honest, from everything I hear of the most recent DA offering, a handful of modders could have done DC in a weekend probably for a case of beer each.
That thing is pure profit. A bunch of little Lincoln's add up after a while.
I sure hope Darkspawn Chronicles is pure profit for BioWare- its basically a reskin of the last level of Origins. I won't be buying it but the optimist in me hopes that the $$$ they're raking in from the DLC can be used to, oh I don't know, make compelling story based DLC? Like the kind of stuff BioWare is known for? Yet the realist in me thinks that if this sort of DLC sells well, why the heck would BioWare do more expensive story based DLC when they can get away with cheap stuff like DC?
#2166
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 06:36
Swoo
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The whole dlc is something you might play once just to experience it,
but afterwards the only reason to come back to it is to unlock remaining
achievements.
Agreed. There's no real replayability to it for other characters, after trying it at my friends no desire to get it. Hopefully it's sales help pay for better DLC down the road.
I'd like to know if the original writers had *anything* to do with
this DLC.
Haha, with what? There is nothing there that needed a writer! Even the Codex entries could have been inputted by someone in Data Entry.
Egad, reading those David Gaider comments makes me embarrassed on behalf
of Bioware. The writer mocked a mod (and rightly so), then his own
company went on to make a DLC with the exact same appeal.
Well firstly, I love those comments by Gaider. It's obvious he's as big a fan of Morrigan as the other writers seem to be of Oghren, so that bodes well for us. He may not admit it, but he will put a little more oomph into getting her story right. Secondly, I'm not sure if they are the same. That poster seemed really 'Hurr hurr' obsessed posting the same thing over and over and filmed a video of chopping and torturing what was basically a target dummy. It reminds me of that other idiotic thread with the person calling us stalkers because we want closure with the Morrigan story, it's not quite the same. TDSC at least had objectives and a purpose, the other was just torture porn.
LIstening to Alistairs speech at the coronation and talking to all my
companions there (minus Morri)
It may be a conspiracy theory, but I swear that damn wolf-dog-thing by Sten (not the Mabari) was actually her shapeshifted - same model as the refused DR, yes? - getting one last peek.
Seeing your Warden as an NPC leading the battle against the archdemon.
You could load up your save and see the world the way he/she created it.
THAT would have been awesome.
[Alistair and Chantry-Girl] would make a decent couple.
I'm really surprised they don't have banter like Morrigan and Sten do. You are right, they do seem like they would really mesh well.
I'd agree that basically, Morrigan is kind of like a younger version of
what Flemeth might have been like a loooong time ago. Question is, does
Morrigan end up being like Flemeth or does she take her own path?
I think she would have if she had never met the Warden (male or female). It seems we give her enough doubt that will be enough of a nudge to push her into being at least half her own person.
Sorry, scratch my previous post. I was suffering from temporary myopia.
I'm much better now.
Oooow. /snaredrum
All the more reason to be especially careful in your story telling.
Haha, have to have story telling first.
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I really liked Warden's Keep and even after having to suffer through Wynne's crap, I still dug the hell out of Return to Ostragar. Feastday was crap, but I'd pay 3-4 bucks for things along the same line if I found them interesting - like a collection of new mage robes, weapons, a 'arcane pack' or the like. I'm glad they are trying different things, and I think the rumored LI quest/pack will really seal the fate of DLC for them when delivered.
but afterwards the only reason to come back to it is to unlock remaining
achievements.
Agreed. There's no real replayability to it for other characters, after trying it at my friends no desire to get it. Hopefully it's sales help pay for better DLC down the road.
I'd like to know if the original writers had *anything* to do with
this DLC.
Haha, with what? There is nothing there that needed a writer! Even the Codex entries could have been inputted by someone in Data Entry.
Egad, reading those David Gaider comments makes me embarrassed on behalf
of Bioware. The writer mocked a mod (and rightly so), then his own
company went on to make a DLC with the exact same appeal.
Well firstly, I love those comments by Gaider. It's obvious he's as big a fan of Morrigan as the other writers seem to be of Oghren, so that bodes well for us. He may not admit it, but he will put a little more oomph into getting her story right. Secondly, I'm not sure if they are the same. That poster seemed really 'Hurr hurr' obsessed posting the same thing over and over and filmed a video of chopping and torturing what was basically a target dummy. It reminds me of that other idiotic thread with the person calling us stalkers because we want closure with the Morrigan story, it's not quite the same. TDSC at least had objectives and a purpose, the other was just torture porn.
LIstening to Alistairs speech at the coronation and talking to all my
companions there (minus Morri)
It may be a conspiracy theory, but I swear that damn wolf-dog-thing by Sten (not the Mabari) was actually her shapeshifted - same model as the refused DR, yes? - getting one last peek.
Seeing your Warden as an NPC leading the battle against the archdemon.
You could load up your save and see the world the way he/she created it.
THAT would have been awesome.
[Alistair and Chantry-Girl] would make a decent couple.
I'm really surprised they don't have banter like Morrigan and Sten do. You are right, they do seem like they would really mesh well.
I'd agree that basically, Morrigan is kind of like a younger version of
what Flemeth might have been like a loooong time ago. Question is, does
Morrigan end up being like Flemeth or does she take her own path?
I think she would have if she had never met the Warden (male or female). It seems we give her enough doubt that will be enough of a nudge to push her into being at least half her own person.
Sorry, scratch my previous post. I was suffering from temporary myopia.
I'm much better now.
Oooow. /snaredrum
All the more reason to be especially careful in your story telling.
Haha, have to have story telling first.
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I really liked Warden's Keep and even after having to suffer through Wynne's crap, I still dug the hell out of Return to Ostragar. Feastday was crap, but I'd pay 3-4 bucks for things along the same line if I found them interesting - like a collection of new mage robes, weapons, a 'arcane pack' or the like. I'm glad they are trying different things, and I think the rumored LI quest/pack will really seal the fate of DLC for them when delivered.
Modifié par Swoo, 20 mai 2010 - 06:42 .
#2167
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 08:16
Master Shiori
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Well, so far we don't know if they'll actualy go ahead with the whole "romance pack" idea.
Would be great if they did though.
I consider Stone prisoner, Warden's Keep and RtO to be excellent dlc. They provide you with more info about history and lore, give you an oportunity to have little adventures with your companions which aren't tied to the main plot and add nice new items. Everything I want from a dlc.
I can only hope Bioware realizes that and continues making such content.
Would be great if they did though.
I consider Stone prisoner, Warden's Keep and RtO to be excellent dlc. They provide you with more info about history and lore, give you an oportunity to have little adventures with your companions which aren't tied to the main plot and add nice new items. Everything I want from a dlc.
I can only hope Bioware realizes that and continues making such content.
#2168
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 10:43
bl00dsh0t
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Agreed that is the kind of dlc that would be worth my cash at least. Great gear, some nice fights, some dialogue and lore. Thats all I want from a dlc, really 
#2169
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 03:33
Terastar
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Had an interesting talk with Morrigan. I just said I would go to the circle to get mages for Conner. I left that room and I went toward Earl Emmon's study and after the fight with the armor I clicked on Morrigan and had dialog options about abominations. She said to get mages and lyrium and one mage could enter the fade and kill the demon but it might not be an easy thing to do. I just found this odd because she is usually for killing Isolde. Can't say I blame her for that choice but still I thought interesting that she never volunteers that as an option.
#2170
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 03:53
Brockololly
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I just hope that any future DLC is up to par with Origins' quality. Seeing some new stuff in the DLC would be nice too- it seems like at least with RtO and DC, they basically just took the old maps and put a new coat of paint on them, but they're still the same. Basically I'd just like to see more stuff like Warden's Keep- DLC that actually is a new area, with dialogue and adds to the story/lore.
I'm actually quite curious how well Awakening sold- if it didn't sell well I wonder if BioWare is just going to churn out more of DLC and less effort into expansions, which are pretty rare now anyway. I think I recall Gaider or one of the other devs saying ex-packs usually only sell about 10-20% of what the original base game sold, which was kind of surprising to me.
I'm actually quite curious how well Awakening sold- if it didn't sell well I wonder if BioWare is just going to churn out more of DLC and less effort into expansions, which are pretty rare now anyway. I think I recall Gaider or one of the other devs saying ex-packs usually only sell about 10-20% of what the original base game sold, which was kind of surprising to me.
#2171
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 04:38
Master Shiori
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I think Awakening sold well.
Not sure about exact numbers but I think I read it was over 1 million copies.
Will try to dig up some info after I get back home.
DA:O was 3.2 million copies, right?
Not sure about exact numbers but I think I read it was over 1 million copies.
Will try to dig up some info after I get back home.
DA:O was 3.2 million copies, right?
#2172
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 04:58
blademaster7
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I'm currently playing Fallout 3 and I have all the DLC's. I'm about to finish Operation Anchorage right now, and let me tell you... it blows all the Bioware DLC out of the water. And we're talking about the "worst" FO3 DLC here. Point Lookout is much better.
Bioware should stick to what they're good at - writing amazing stories with compelling characters. Leave the gameplay to the experts.
Bioware should stick to what they're good at - writing amazing stories with compelling characters. Leave the gameplay to the experts.
#2173
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 05:07
Barbarossa2010
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blademaster7 wrote...
I'm currently playing Fallout 3 and I have all the DLC's. I'm about to finish Operation Anchorage right now, and let me tell you... it blows all the Bioware DLC out of the water. And we're talking about the "worst" FO3 DLC here. Point Lookout is much better.
Bioware should stick to what they're good at - writing amazing stories with compelling characters. Leave the gameplay to the experts.
I've already purchased the base game and will be starting (well I already completed the vault intro) after I complete this last run through of ME2.
Looking forward to it.
#2174
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 05:07
Addai
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I didn't get to play Point Lookout or Mothership Zeta because we waited to get the GOTY edition and it was so buggy as to be unplayable, but I did get to play Broken Steel, The Pitt and Operation: Anchorage before we gave up on it. O:A was my favorite, I loved it! Not sure why people thought it was "bad." I don't even like shooters, but the setting was just so cool. I dig all that rah rah patriotic crap. LOLblademaster7 wrote...
I'm currently playing Fallout 3 and I have all the DLC's. I'm about to finish Operation Anchorage right now, and let me tell you... it blows all the Bioware DLC out of the water. And we're talking about the "worst" FO3 DLC here. Point Lookout is much better.
Bioware should stick to what they're good at - writing amazing stories with compelling characters. Leave the gameplay to the experts.
This latest DLC has really soured my appetite for DAO, I'm afraid. I didn't want it to happen, but it did. I would feel better about it if Gaider or one of the other writers would come out and say "this was not our idea," but I imagine they'd be out of a job if they did that.
#2175
Posté 20 mai 2010 - 05:24
blademaster7
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O:A isn't bad at all. People just consider it the weakest FO3 DLC overall. It's still better than all the Bioware DLC combined though. I personally like it, but not as much as the other DLC.Addai67 wrote...
I didn't get to play Point Lookout or Mothership Zeta because we waited to get the GOTY edition and it was so buggy as to be unplayable, but I did get to play Broken Steel, The Pitt and Operation: Anchorage before we gave up on it. O:A was my favorite, I loved it! Not sure why people thought it was "bad." I don't even like shooters, but the setting was just so cool. I dig all that rah rah patriotic crap. LOLblademaster7 wrote...
I'm currently playing Fallout 3 and I have all the DLC's. I'm about to finish Operation Anchorage right now, and let me tell you... it blows all the Bioware DLC out of the water. And we're talking about the "worst" FO3 DLC here. Point Lookout is much better.
Bioware should stick to what they're good at - writing amazing stories with compelling characters. Leave the gameplay to the experts.
This latest DLC has really soured my appetite for DAO, I'm afraid. I didn't want it to happen, but it did. I would feel better about it if Gaider or one of the other writers would come out and say "this was not our idea," but I imagine they'd be out of a job if they did that.
Barbarossa, I'm surprised you haven't already played it. It's a RPG-shooter.... I think you'll love it. Too bad you don't have it on PC...
the modding community is huge.If you ever want to buy DLC then I recommend getting Broken Steel first(expands the main quest and the level cap along with all sorts of new perks and weapons). Or did you get the GOTY?
Modifié par blademaster7, 20 mai 2010 - 05:25 .
