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[Kryyptehk]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Edit:  The comic also brings up an idea I had the other day.  Don't know if it's been discussed here.  I usually picture Morrigan's baby as a boy for some reason, but the other day I thought it's probably going to end up being a girl.  Don't know why, but somehow that idea is sticking.  Maybe because the old gods/dragons are supposed to be female?

The Old Gods are  supposed to be male. At least that's how they are referred to.
If the spirit dictates gender, then Urthemiel's new form will be male. And it's going to be one hell of a good looking kid! (God of beauty).

I always thought female because Flemeth's daughters. I know it isn't the same thing, but that's what was in my head.

[Brockololly]

Addai67 wrote...

Wow, that is some of the most moving fanart I've seen.  Thanks for posting these links.

Edit:  The comic also brings up an idea I had the other day.  Don't know if it's been discussed here.  I usually picture Morrigan's baby as a boy for some reason, but the other day I thought it's probably going to end up being a girl.  Don't know why, but somehow that idea is sticking.  Maybe because the old gods/dragons are supposed to be female?

As for the gender of the OGB, I don't know if the gender of Urthemiel will play much of a role. If thats the case then I guess it would be female since supposedly High Dragons are by their nature female. But that gets into the question of what makes an Old God different from a normal High Dragon?

In any event, I'll stick by my idea that Morrigan should have twins- one being the Old God Kid and the other being a normal kid.

[Herr Uhl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Edit:  The comic also brings up an idea I had the other day.  Don't know if it's been discussed here.  I usually picture Morrigan's baby as a boy for some reason, but the other day I thought it's probably going to end up being a girl.  Don't know why, but somehow that idea is sticking.  Maybe because the old gods/dragons are supposed to be female?

The Old Gods are  supposed to be male. At least that's how they are referred to.
If the spirit dictates gender, then Urthemiel's new form will be male. And it's going to be one hell of a good looking kid! (God of beauty).

Are all of them referred to as male?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Herr Uhl wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Edit:  The comic also brings up an idea I had the other day.  Don't know if it's been discussed here.  I usually picture Morrigan's baby as a boy for some reason, but the other day I thought it's probably going to end up being a girl.  Don't know why, but somehow that idea is sticking.  Maybe because the old gods/dragons are supposed to be female?

The Old Gods are  supposed to be male. At least that's how they are referred to.
If the spirit dictates gender, then Urthemiel's new form will be male. And it's going to be one hell of a good looking kid! (God of beauty).

Are all of them referred to as male?

I forgiot. But Urthemiel is definately male, according to the codex

"Once the Tevinter god of beauty, in ancient times Urthemiel was worshiped by musicians, artists, and poets. The Feast of Urthemiel was the largest celebration of the year, an event that lasted a full twelve days. Plays and entire symphonies were written in his honor. Now, he is a maddened husk of his former self, filled with nothing but a desire to destroy all life. "

From: http://dragonage.wik.../wiki/Urthemiel

[Kryyptehk]

browse.deviantart.com/

Cute!Morrigan. I'd be hard to take Morrigan seriously if she was this cute. Of course, she might be disturbing if she looked like this

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Edit:  The comic also brings up an idea I had the other day.  Don't know if it's been discussed here.  I usually picture Morrigan's baby as a boy for some reason, but the other day I thought it's probably going to end up being a girl.  Don't know why, but somehow that idea is sticking.  Maybe because the old gods/dragons are supposed to be female?

The Old Gods are  supposed to be male. At least that's how they are referred to.
If the spirit dictates gender, then Urthemiel's new form will be male. And it's going to be one hell of a good looking kid! (God of beauty).

Oh, where did I get that idea?  Aren't dragons supposed to be female?  I guess there would have to be some males.  *shrug*  NVM!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...
Oh, where did I get that idea?  Aren't dragons supposed to be female?  I guess there would have to be some males.  *shrug*  NVM!

High dragons are supposed to be females. I do not believe the Old Gods were normal dragons however.

In fact in Awakening, in Drake's Fall, you stumble upon "Urthemiel's vestements", a mage outfit (which sucks), which leads me to believe they were something more than just dragons.

[Kryyptehk]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Oh, where did I get that idea?  Aren't dragons supposed to be female?  I guess there would have to be some males.  *shrug*  NVM!

High dragons are supposed to be females. I do not believe the Old Gods were normal dragons however.

In fact in Awakening, in Drake's Fall, you stumble upon "Urthemiel's vestements", a mage outfit (which sucks), which leads me to believe they were something more than just dragons.

Are you sure the robes aren't made from Urthemial's skin? I mean, what do they do with the body?

Modifié par Kryyptehk, 27 mai 2010 - 01:09 .

[Brockololly]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Oh, where did I get that idea?  Aren't dragons supposed to be female?  I guess there would have to be some males.  *shrug*  NVM!

High dragons are supposed to be females. I do not believe the Old Gods were normal dragons however.

In fact in Awakening, in Drake's Fall, you stumble upon "Urthemiel's vestements", a mage outfit (which sucks), which leads me to believe they were something more than just dragons.

I'd agree that the Old Gods likely aren't normal High Dragons. Maybe they're High Dragons possessed by a spirit or something? Who knows for sure...

As for Urthemiel's Vestement's, I think the description of them indicated they were the robes worn by  a worshiper of Urthemiel. But I 'd agree that I think the Old Gods were likely something more than just really intelligent dragons. Hopefully they'll explore this more in DA2.

[blademaster7]

Well, there is this rumor going around that the OGB will be the protagonist of DA2. If that's the case then the gender will be up to the player to decide.

Brockololly wrote...

In any event, I'll stick by my idea that Morrigan should have twins- one being the Old God Kid and the other being a normal kid.

I think it's better if they end up with the same powers. I can see a hero vs antagonist rivarly between twins.

Go Dante!

Or maybe I should forget about DMC.

[Axekix]

Master Shiori wrote...

If you're checking those out be sure to check her other Warden + Morrigan art.

My favorites are:

Morrigan watching the Warden sleep

Wow.  So yeah, I'm late to the party, but this picture is really  touching.  I'll be following her work pretty closely I think.  Thanks for posting!

[old book]

For the first time, I talked with Morrigan after she asked me to kill Flemeth, and got an interesting dialog. Morrigan said that all she really needed was her mother's Grimore, but that she couldn't think of any way to get it other than killing Flemeth. This seemed like an OK to make the deal and trade Flemeth her Grimore for her life. I'm not running the Morrigan dialog patch (I don't plan to until all of the character dialog fix packs are integrated). Is there any more dialog on this if you tell Morrigan that Flemeth isn't dead when you give her the Grimore?

[Master Shiori]

old book wrote...

For the first time, I talked with Morrigan after she asked me to kill Flemeth, and got an interesting dialog. Morrigan said that all she really needed was her mother's Grimore, but that she couldn't think of any way to get it other than killing Flemeth. This seemed like an OK to make the deal and trade Flemeth her Grimore for her life. I'm not running the Morrigan dialog patch (I don't plan to until all of the character dialog fix packs are integrated). Is there any more dialog on this if you tell Morrigan that Flemeth isn't dead when you give her the Grimore?

I don't think you can tell her that Flemeth is alive unless you have the dialogue fix installed.

With the dialogue fix you need to pass a persuation check to lie about Flemeth being death. If you fail that Morrigan will realize you're lying and will leave your group to deal with Flemeth herself. She'll be back to offer you the DR though.

[old book]

Master Shiori wrote...

old book wrote...

For the first time, I talked with Morrigan after she asked me to kill Flemeth, and got an interesting dialog. Morrigan said that all she really needed was her mother's Grimore, but that she couldn't think of any way to get it other than killing Flemeth. This seemed like an OK to make the deal and trade Flemeth her Grimore for her life. I'm not running the Morrigan dialog patch (I don't plan to until all of the character dialog fix packs are integrated). Is there any more dialog on this if you tell Morrigan that Flemeth isn't dead when you give her the Grimore?

I don't think you can tell her that Flemeth is alive unless you have the dialogue fix installed.

With the dialogue fix you need to pass a persuation check to lie about Flemeth being death. If you fail that Morrigan will realize you're lying and will leave your group to deal with Flemeth herself. She'll be back to offer you the DR though.

Thanks.

So there's never an option to tell her "You said you only really needed the grimore. Here it is." ?

[blademaster7]

old book wrote...

For the first time, I talked with Morrigan after she asked me to kill Flemeth, and got an interesting dialog. Morrigan said that all she really needed was her mother's Grimore, but that she couldn't think of any way to get it other than killing Flemeth. This seemed like an OK to make the deal and trade Flemeth her Grimore for her life. I'm not running the Morrigan dialog patch (I don't plan to until all of the character dialog fix packs are integrated). Is there any more dialog on this if you tell Morrigan that Flemeth isn't dead when you give her the Grimore?

She says that because the game assumes that you lied to her and she bought it.

Morrigan wants Flemeth dead badly and she wants it to be done asap(you don't have a time limit or anything, you can finish the quest anytime you want).

Whether she lied to you or not is a mystery for now.

[blademaster7]

old book wrote...

Thanks.

So there's never an option to tell her "You said you only really needed the grimore. Here it is." ?

Oh.. yes there is.

Here's apart from the restored dialogue. Say, you decided to take the grimoire without killing Flemeth and you tell Morrigan the truth.

_____

Morrigan: You have returned from the Wilds... alive. What news have you?

PC: Your mother is alive, if that's what you mean.

Morrigan: What? You did nothing? Or is it worse than that? Did you tell her what I discovered?

PC: I brought you her grimoire. Isn't that what you wanted?

Morrigan: What I wanted? What I wanted was to survive. If Flemeth allowed you to leave with this grimoire then surely 'tis less than worthless!

Morrigan: I told you the truth of what I found in that book, of what Flemeth intends for me. Believe what you will, I acted to preserve myself.

Morrigan: And since you will not help me, you force me to act again. I must leave you now and... deal with Flemeth myself.

PC: Wait, don't go. I will help you once I have the time.

Morrigan: No. I no longer trust you, nor am I confident I even have the luxury of time any longer.

____

*Morrigan leaves the party at this point

Modifié par blademaster7, 27 mai 2010 - 10:19 .

[old book]

blademaster7 wrote...

old book wrote...

Thanks.

So there's never an option to tell her "You said you only really needed the grimore. Here it is." ?

Oh.. yes there is.

Here's apart from the restored dialogue. Say, you decided to take the grimoire without killing Flemeth and you tell Morrigan the truth.

_____

Morrigan: You have returned from the Wilds... alive. What news have you?

PC: Your mother is alive, if that's what you mean.

Morrigan: What? You did nothing? Or is it worse than that? Did you tell her what I discovered?

PC: I brought you her grimoire. Isn't that what you wanted?

Morrigan: What I wanted? What I wanted was to survive. If Flemeth allowed you to leave with this grimoire then surely 'tis less than worthless!

Morrigan: I told you the truth of what I found in that book, of what Flemeth intends for me. Believe what you will, I acted to preserve myself.

Morrigan: And since you will not help me, you force me to act again. I must leave you now and... deal with Flemeth myself.

PC: Wait, don't go. I will help you once I have the time.

Morrigan: No. I no longer trust you, nor am I confident I even have the luxury of time any longer.

____

*Morrigan leaves the party at this point

Thanks! That puts her "I don't want to kill my mother, I just need the grimore and there's no other way to get it" conversation in a different light.

Can't wait until the dialog fix packs are finally integrated.

[blademaster7]

That's not exactly what she says. First and foremost, she wants you to kill Flemeth. She admits that she doesn't like the idea but it's she is pretty adamant about it. She won't consider any alternative.

[Xandurpein]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Oh, where did I get that idea?  Aren't dragons supposed to be female?  I guess there would have to be some males.  *shrug*  NVM!

High dragons are supposed to be females. I do not believe the Old Gods were normal dragons however.

If I remember correctly, High dragons are simply large pregnant female dragons who go on a killing spree and gorge themselves to feed their children/eggs.

[Xandurpein]

blademaster7 wrote...

That's not exactly what she says. First and foremost, she wants you to kill Flemeth. She admits that she doesn't like the idea but it's she is pretty adamant about it. She won't consider any alternative.

The way Morrigan explains it, killing flemeth won't destroy her forever, but it will take considerable time for Flemeth to be able to return to life. Morrigan needs that time to master the contents of the grimoire and learn enough be able to defend herself against Flemeth. So if you just give her the grimoire but leaves Flemeth alive, it is still possible that flemeth can kill and possess her, before she had time to learn how to defend herself. At least that is how i understood the conversations.

[old book]

Xandurpein wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

That's not exactly what she says. First and foremost, she wants you to kill Flemeth. She admits that she doesn't like the idea but it's she is pretty adamant about it. She won't consider any alternative.

The way Morrigan explains it, killing flemeth won't destroy her forever, but it will take considerable time for Flemeth to be able to return to life. Morrigan needs that time to master the contents of the grimoire and learn enough be able to defend herself against Flemeth. So if you just give her the grimoire but leaves Flemeth alive, it is still possible that flemeth can kill and possess her, before she had time to learn how to defend herself. At least that is how i understood the conversations.

That's how I understood the first conversation. I just found yesterday a second conversation after she asks you to kill Flemeth, in which she said that what she really needed was the Grimore, and that her mother would never give it up while still alive. OTOH, she didn't have any other suggestions of ways to get it in that conversation, and your character couldn't offer alternatives.

In previous playthroughs I'd never discussed it with her after initially accepting the job of killing Flemeth. I'd just gone off and killed her, and that was that.

[blademaster7]

Here's a few more lines... the first one is missing from vanilla but it was restored by Terra_ex. The second works fine and Morrigan's response depends on whether you gave her the book or not.

[...]
Morrigan: And the real grimoire? Did you find it?

PC: Yes, but I intend to keep it for myself.

Morrigan: Despite the fact that I need it to protect myself from Flemeth in the future, hm?

Morrigan: So be it. I cannot ask for more than you have done, after all. Keep the book, if you think it will do you good.

Morrigan: And... thank you. For helping me. No one has ever... thank you.
[...]
____

PC: So Flemeth is dead. What now?

Morrigan: Now I have time to find a some way to prevent Flemeth from stealing my body in the future, even without her grimoire.

Morrigan: For she will be back. One day. I have no doubt of that.

[...]

____

The way I see it: She want's Flemeth out of the picture for a while so she can procced with her plan unchallenged. The book is full of secrets and spells(according to Flemeth), so she sees it as a way to prepare herself when the time comes. If Flemeth no longer has her body and the book is destroyed then so be it.

The grimoire is important to her but she won't hold it against you if you decide to keep it for your self. She got what she wanted.

Modifié par blademaster7, 27 mai 2010 - 11:45 .

[Swoo]

Heh, go for a few days and it seems like I have tons to catch up on! Backeth to the top, thread!



And great art links folks, love seeing them.

[Master Shiori]

The list of titles to be presented at E3 has been released and there's nothing about DA2, although considering they've yet to anounce it it's not really a surprise.

Seems likely we'll get the offcial anouncement and, hopefully, a trailer like Sacred Ashes or Warden's Calling but probably no game footage.

Appears they'll give us plenty of info about SWTOR though (for those who actualy care about it).

Modifié par Master Shiori, 27 mai 2010 - 05:19 .

[Brockololly]

Master Shiori wrote...

The list of titles to be presented at E3 has been released and there's nothing about DA2, although considering they've yet to anounce it it's not really a surprise.

Seems likely we'll get the offcial anouncement and, hopefully, a trailer like Sacred Ashes or Warden's Calling but probably no game footage.

Appears they'll give us plenty of info about SWTOR though (for those who actualy care about it).

Yeah, like you mentioned, considering they haven't officially announced it yet they wouldn't let it leak out in a pre-E3 note. My guess is it will be announced and maybe a trailer shown during the EA presentation on the 14th. Whether or not they actually show gameplay or anything I don't know. I'm guessing they want the gameplay and graphics to look noticably better than Origins as Zeschuk mentioned DA2 would look "super hot." If they rush out footage and it looks the same, no doubt people would start slamming them.

So long as they announce what the 2/1/2011 title is, show a trailer or something and maybe give a brief outline of what the story is (Morrigan/Warden reunion!?), I'll be happy. Maybe thats too much to expect, but I'd just be really surprised if we don't get any info about the 2/1/2011 title at E3. I mean mid June to February is what, about 7.5 months or so? Most games like Dead Space 2, The Witcher 2, Gears of War 3 that are all scheduled for the same release window have already been shown to the press, so unless the 2/1/2011 title is just an ex-pack or some dinky spin-off, I'd think BioWare would at least officially announce it at E3. Its not uncommon at all for big games to be announced a year before release.

But given all the dev comments, DLC and such, I'm ready to be disappointed somehow...

Modifié par Brockololly, 27 mai 2010 - 05:45 .