91 réponses à ce sujet

[Spyndel]

Spyndel wrote...

Seriously though, when a single merchant
in Amaranthine sells all the ingredients you need for Potent Lyrium in
unlimited quantities, gold isnt really a limiting factor.

Charsen wrote...

True, but it seems a little cheaty/exploity to do that unlimited times. But I guess there is no other option.

I wouldnt normally do it either...not out of any sense of fair play...but simply because it isnt *fun*.  Grinding potions for gold isnt any more fun than the tedious and prohibitively expensive grinding out of lesser runes to get one good one.


This isn't an MMO. Thank god.  The reason I play it is because it isnt an MMO.  There is no need for time and money sinks.  Its a single player game...you control the the economy and pacing deliberately, and absolutely.


The *only* reason for this convoluted system  in Awakening, is to contrive some sort of extra skill for high level characters to spend their skill points on.  Which is fine.  But dont make that skill a pain in a single player game.  Give the runes a cost in ingredients, and let us craft the runes directly, without all needing all the lesser runes, and lesser rune recipies first.  Like *EVERY OTHER*  crafting skill in the game, which are painless for the most part..


And furthermore, let the highest rank in the skill alow players to swap out Runes on equipment themselves out in the field.  That would be actually useful.


The only thing the Runecrafting system at present does in the game, is make me not care...*at all*...about Runes in the game anymore.  It's not like theyre actually needed. As pointed out in many other threads, the game is so easy, you sleepwalk through it anyways. Maxed runes would just be overkill.

Modifié par Spyndel, 19 mars 2010 - 06:12 .

[wallix]

Spyndel wrote...

Spyndel wrote...

Seriously though, when a single merchant
in Amaranthine sells all the ingredients you need for Potent Lyrium in
unlimited quantities, gold isnt really a limiting factor.

Charsen wrote...

True, but it seems a little cheaty/exploity to do that unlimited times. But I guess there is no other option.

I wouldnt normally do it either...not out of any sense of fair play...but simply because it isnt *fun*.  Grinding potions for gold isnt any more fun than the tedious and prohibitively expensive grinding out of lesser runes to get one good one.


This isn't an MMO. Thank god.  The reason I play it is because it isnt an MMO.  There is no need for time and money sinks.  Its a single player game...you control the the economy and pacing deliberately, and absolutely.


The *only* reason for this convoluted system  in Awakening, is to contrive some sort of extra skill for high level characters to spend their skill points on.  Which is fine.  But dont make that skill a pain in a single player game.  Give the runes a cost in ingredients, and let us craft the runes directly, without all needing all the lesser runes, and lesser rune recipies first.  Like *EVERY OTHER*  crafting skill in the game, which are painless for the most part..


And furthermore, let the highest rank in the skill alow players to swap out Runes on equipment themselves out in the field.  That would be actually useful.


The only thing the Runecrafting system at present does in the game, is make me not care...*at all*...about Runes in the game anymore.  It's not like theyre actually needed. As pointed out in many other threads, the game is so easy, you sleepwalk through it anyways. Maxed runes would just be overkill.

Well said. If you are one of those peeps that thinks grinding is the bees knees then so be it. But I was so attracted to DAO because it was fast paced, epic, and FUN. At least when you grinded something out in WoW, for instance, the end always justified the means. But in DAO:A the end doesn't even remotely justify the means because, if if you have 0 runes in your gear, you will still WTFPWN the whole game silly. Rune are more for completionists or appeasing those with OCD.

[Kerilus]

Yeah. The whole rune crafting system also seems as though Bioware is practicing for sucking players' time for a MMO...

[Bryy_Miller]

Runecrafting allows you to break the game by making your characters ungodly powerful.

[Charsen]

I'm not saying that i like grinding to make money. I'm just saying I wish we didn't have to resort to an exploit to make money; we should have more options. That's neither here nor there, it's just a hmph on my part.

[DIrishB]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Especially if you dont have the skill yourself and have to run in and out of the throne room to get components/get anders to make them

This was annoying.



Also, Rune Crafting is just way too expensive for the effects it gives you.  Right at the end, before traveling to Amaranthine to fight off the darkspawn, I upgraded 3 Fire runes to Paragon level for my Vigilance long sword; and on my Dumat's Spine Longsword I put 2 Lightning Runes to Paragon, 1 Master (I ran out of money to finish upgrading it to Paragon).  I literally had to sell just about everything in my Chest and everything in my inventory to afford it.  It wasn't a big deal since I was almost done with the game anyway, but it is ridiculously expensive, almost prohibitively so.

In DA 2, I'd like to see Rune-crafting continue, but the system needs a lot of work.  Needs to be easier and less expensive. 

Modifié par DIrishB, 19 mars 2010 - 08:39 .

[Shady314]

Also why is there only a single novice barrier rune????

[Raiynsong]

Obviously a lot of developer time went into this whole runecrafting thing. I wish they would have instead put those resources into dialog and character development....



Seriously, I loved Sandal. I loved Wade and his annoying boss. Make me run around for components, but don't make me have to spec characters I won't be able to move from game to game to make them. Unless I was a healer I didnt' level up potion making. I only got enough poison to be able to use the poisons UNLESS I was a rogue. I expected my companions to do their part. Then they're gone and now I have to level up other crafting ? BAH I want to waste time crafting I can play an MMO

[ComTrav]

Part of the problem is the crafting system is implemented across all levels, but in awakenings everyone's already level 20+ so you're only really interested in the high-end runes.



It would've kept the nifty crafting aspect and saved a lot of time if they sold Master-level runes instead of having to grind them all the way up from Novice.

[kaimanaMM]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Especially if you dont have the skill yourself and have to run in and out of the throne room to get components/get anders to make them

This was probably one of the worst things about the Runecrafting system besides its insane cost and horrible organization.  I'm pretty positive about DA:A overall, but Runecrafting, as touted as it was, is just awful.  I literally had EQ flashbacks and they were not pretty. 

In the end, I think I made 1 Paragon Frost Rune - the one I made to see how the system worked - and didn't bother going back for more punishment.

Possible improvements :

More organization than just Weapon Runes and Armor Runes.
 - Possibly group into Fire / Frost / Lightning etc. and by stat or resist boosts.

If the PC doesn't have the skill give us some way to access the character who does in the Keep / Camp.

If the character has made X rune already, possibly reduce the reagent cost to make that type of rune again.

Make runes stack or tag them as plot items so they don't take up bag space.

Modifié par kaimanaMM, 19 mars 2010 - 11:27 .

[Bfler]

Yes the greatest flaw is that you can't buy and craft runes at one place. So you either empty your bag first to collect some runes or you have to switch between the throne room and the place outside.

Modifié par Bfler, 19 mars 2010 - 11:46 .

[Karmianna]

Yrkoon wrote...

 Which one of you Devs developed the  STUPID grotesquely convoluted mess of a  system involved  in it?

  Lets see.  I want to make a Paragon lightning rune.  That's it.  One rune.  Just one. To put on my sword. 

To do that, First I gotta find or buy the tracing.  No no wait.  I have to buy 7 tracings  (one for each tier).  Then I have to find the rune or buy the rune,  or a blank rune... no, make that 14+ blank runes.  then I have to  buy the etching agent  (but only sometimes!).  Excuse me... SEVERAL etching agents...sometimes.   Then I have to work my way up from Novice to journeyman, to expert, to master, to grandmaster, to masterwork(?) to finally paragon...  because  each  tier advancement  requires that I make 2 of the previous tier  then combine them.  Then, once I've spent ALL the gold and time  to get that far... then I have to go back to the keep and get the rune put on my sword. 

All for one F*cking rune lol.

Never mind that there's dozens of different types of runes of all 7 tiers. and never mind the fact that the more recipes you buy, the more  messed up  up the list  gets, since the genius who developed this system decided it wouldn't be  "fun"   or "cool" to alphabetize or group these  recepies in the crafting screen, beyond the basic  "weapon runes" and "armor runes" classification.

But seriously.... WHY?   If the goal is to make things as complicated as possible so that we get a sense of "accomplishment" when we succeed,  Why not just  put  together a bunch of interactive calculus equations  and package them as the  next DLC?

I agree but think about it, it only took about 7 hours to beat the game, so not a big deal making runes. 

[elearon1]

Some people really enjoy crafting - though I'm not one of them ... my roommate is - and as such enjoyed the crafting system being made more complex than it was in DA. My only issue is, I wish you could have found or bought the runes you need for Wade ... I would have paid more than the cost of crafting the rune so I could simply buy it and have him make my stuff ... but because I have no patience for crafting I was deprived.



Mind you, I can see this as a reward for the people willing to take the time ... and I don't begrudge them that ... but an option would have made my life happier.

[Geralt Prophecy]

im trying the runecrafting system at the moment, and i cant even see the stuff i bought



trying to make the grand master flame rune for wade, but when clicking the runecrafting skill it open the crafting window much like herbalism... but its completely blank. wtf

[Finnegone]

Charsen wrote...

- the recipe list is unorganized and too cluttered. the flame rune tracings should all be next to each other in the list, and wouldn't it be nicer to have a sub-list that says "FLAME" and all the flame recipes unroll from it if selected?

God yes. I actually enjoyed crafting runes - though my main, a Rogue, had skill points to spare so I didn't have to keep running outside the keep so Anders could do it. That said, Bioware seems to have some major list issues: the inventory system in ME was completely FUBAR, and - even though they significantly improved inventory in ME2 - they still couldn't be bothered to arrange the list of upgrades in any sort of logical order.

It would be nice to see the runes listed by type (Weapon, Armor), then alphabetically, then by rank. I spent more time trying to determine which runes I could make than I did actually making them...

Also, why not list what % increase the momentum rune provides? Why is that such a taboo?

[Free Reign]

Totally in agreement with the original poster. Building the sword and bow from Wade was the singular worst experience I had playing this game, and it took a full hour. I never bothered with any of the crafting stuff in the entirity of my playthrough, it just wasn't worth it.

The best weapons in the game should be hard to get, not annoying to put together.

[smadiso1]

I managed to graph out a flowchart for the Runecrafting system and then used it to figure out how many runes, blank runes and etching agents were needed to create everything from journeyman to paragon. Took less time to make this chart than it did to craft a single paragon rune with Anders on my first attempt! I'm willing to post some of the basic info here and maybe even submit a full guide on the subject to GameFAQs and other guide sites. Would anyone else find this info useful?

[kaimanaMM]

smadiso1 wrote...

I managed to graph out a flowchart for the Runecrafting system and then used it to figure out how many runes, blank runes and etching agents were needed to create everything from journeyman to paragon. Took less time to make this chart than it did to craft a single paragon rune with Anders on my first attempt! I'm willing to post some of the basic info here and maybe even submit a full guide on the subject to GameFAQs and other guide sites. Would anyone else find this info useful?

Indeed!

Please do Smadiso, and hook us up with a link, it'd be greatly appreciated! 

[higg1077]

I completely agree with this the rune crafting was way to hard and drawn out for me I tried to stay away from it until I had to do it to get Wade to make the sword for me and by the time I had everything needed it was the end of the game and I couldn't talk to Wade or anyone else in the market area.

[DJ0000]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Runecrafting allows you to break the game by making your characters ungodly powerful.

I thought that was what Spirirt Warrior and Massacre were for.

Runecrafting was a created because they thought it would be fun to spend 100 soverigns and 60 minutes of your life on 2 extra damage or to pay 8 soveriegns to buy a rune tracing without having any idea what it does only to find that it increases hostility or something stupid like that. Seriously? 8 sovs for increases hostility. WTF.

As far as I can tell, the only worthwhile ones are the Amplification and Elemental runes. The elemental rune may be expensive and probably more likely to be resisted but but at least it costs 90 sovereigns and 55 minutes of your life less than a Paragon Fire or Frost rune.

[Basher of Glory]

My guess:

The rune crafting system is not only a money- but also a time sink.

Without it, probably many more people would have the feeling that Awakening is - even for an expansion - WAYS too short.

[ElvenGoddess]

i was just gonna post something like this. while playing on my lunch break today, i finally decided to try and figure out how to do the damned crafting anyway. what a pain it was. i managed to make the grandmaster flame rune, but i cannot for the life of me figure out how i missed picking up a jorneyman lightning rune so i cannot complete wade's task for the bow. can i not just buy the jorneyman lighning rune somewhere? i checked at all the merchants in the city and the two in the throne room in the keep. am i just looking over it? i'm not a fan of crafing runes at all. it kinda sucks in my opinion. and i must agree with others, at the very least why do we have to start from the bottom completely and why in the name of the maker can't the list at least be organized? arf!

[ElvenGoddess]

oh, and why are there no descriptions for the runes or rune tracings when you inspect them? what gives there? are we supposed to already know this somehow? i didn't see it in the codex anywhere.

[Addai]

So, anyone else stocking up on runes in Origins for your repeat playthroughs of Awakening? I did.



Plus... it must be said... that elf chick is just NOT Sandal. My elf mage wants to tell her "You just stand around here in case I want to enchant something? Learn a fireball spell and make yourself useful!"

[Volourn]

The runes in invfentory have descrptions. They donj't in the crafting screen which is disspaointing.





Anyways, I love the crafting system oevrall. that said, it efinitely can be cleaned up and 'streamlined' which doens't have tmean dumbed down. Maybve in the enxt expansion/sequel they will fix it. I surely hope they don't get rid of it just because go overboard with the whining like they did with ME1's vehicle for ME2 just to bring basically the same thing back for DLC.



Some things I would do to fix things:



1. Lower prices of novice runes



2. Have more than basic runes in stores.



3. Have rune descrptions in all aspects - in story, in inventory, and in the rune crafting page.



4. Allow you to access all characters' crafting skill while in 'camp' (aka the keep); but not out in field obviously.



5. More organization in the rune crafting page. Should eb multiple ways to sort things ala all fire runes, alphabetical, or by power.



6. If you have all the requiste basic components, let you craft the highest rune possible if you want instead of simply going step by step. ie. If it takes a total of 24 novice runes, 30 etchings, and 12 blank runes (or whatever) then just allows to do it in one click.



7. Let our runemasters be able to enchant our equipment with runes.





There ya go...