91 réponses à ce sujet

[ElvenGoddess]

so you have to buy the rune then look at it in your inventory to see its stats/benefits? i'd much rather it have a description when i inspect it directly from the merchant. wish it had info there. currently its like buying a grab bag if you aren't already familiar with the rune. don't get me wrong, i like the concept of run crafting but i feel it needs a lot more tuning in to be effective and enjoyable. at least for myself.

[Thomas9321]

I never saw the point of the runecrafting. I just swapped my runes from Origins into my new gear. I only ever used it so Wade could make Vigilance.

[Viglin]

Yrkoon wrote...

 Which one of you Devs developed the  STUPID grotesquely convoluted mess of a  system involved  in it?

  Lets see.  I want to make a Paragon lightning rune.  That's it.  One rune.  Just one. To put on my sword. 

To do that, First I gotta find or buy the tracing.  No no wait.  I have to buy 7 tracings  (one for each tier).  Then I have to find the rune or buy the rune,  or a blank rune... no, make that 14+ blank runes.  then I have to  buy the etching agent  (but only sometimes!).  Excuse me... SEVERAL etching agents...sometimes.   Then I have to work my way up from Novice to journeyman, to expert, to master, to grandmaster, to masterwork(?) to finally paragon...  because  each  tier advancement  requires that I make 2 of the previous tier  then combine them.  Then, once I've spent ALL the gold and time  to get that far... then I have to go back to the keep and get the rune put on my sword. 

All for one F*cking rune lol.

Never mind that there's dozens of different types of runes of all 7 tiers. and never mind the fact that the more recipes you buy, the more  messed up  up the list  gets, since the genius who developed this system decided it wouldn't be  "fun"   or "cool" to alphabetize or group these  recepies in the crafting screen, beyond the basic  "weapon runes" and "armor runes" classification.

But seriously.... WHY?   If the goal is to make things as complicated as possible so that we get a sense of "accomplishment" when we succeed,  Why not just  put  together a bunch of interactive calculus equations  and package them as the  next DLC?

Yes, how dare they make the crafting of magical runes actually take some time and effort.
Next time, we should demand an AUTO ARTIFACT MAKING MACHINE!!!!!......

I will agree on the needing to alphabetize the recipes thou.

[Popeandy]

I spent more time runecrafting than doing anything else in the Awakening expansion. Yeah that is sad when your crafting system takes more time to make a handful of runes than anything else in the game. The expansion in general was garbage I wish I could get my money back.

lol I don't care about time and effort when it's fun but I did spend more time runecrafting than it took to fully clear Awakening. 

Modifié par Popeandy, 24 mars 2010 - 08:42 .

[Hanamara]

I think on my next imported character I'll just sell all my junk equipment by all the ruin I can from Sandal and spend the rest on elfroot/mushrooms/lyrium dust.

[J-Reyno]

I never got around to trying runecrafting. I was going to take a look at it eventually but before I realized it I had beaten the game. So now I'm like... what's the point?

[CybAnt1]

Yes, how dare they make the crafting of magical runes actually take some time and effort.
Next time, we should demand an AUTO ARTIFACT MAKING MACHINE!!!!!......

There are ways to make it difficult without making it tedious. 

I agree it should cost lots of money for whatever crafting resources are necessary to make a Paragon rune. (Yes, people will cheat for the money if they're determined, but hell, you can only make anything in a game difficult for those who refuse to cheat.) Hell, I'm even Ok with them imposing a one hour cooldown on making one so it takes a lot of time to make another. Yes, you should not be able to make a gazillion Paragon runes, but there are ways to limit/balance this without this system. 

The game makes it difficult to make Master and Superb Lyrium potions without making it tedious. Get the difference and the concept? 

I agree Paragon runes should neither be easy to find nor make, but it just seems to me this "climb the tiers" system achieves difficulty through tedium, and that's not the best method. 

Also, given the chumongous amounts of Novice runes it takes to make a Paragon one (do the math) -- and the fact that since Sera only sells Novice & you almost never find anything else as drops/loots -- it's a bit irritating that every rune of a particular type takes up 1 inventory slot of your 125 max. It's an absolute blessing that each blank rune or etching agent doesn't take up 1 slot, because the chumongous amounts of those you'll also need to make a single Paragon rune end up not being as annoying. 

Since making runes is a game of "climb the tiers," it would also be nice if the tiers were actually in order, and some of the chains weren't missing things along the way. But that's an implementation problem, not a design problem. 

[Volourn]

"I spent more time runecrafting than doing anything else in the Awakening expansion. Yeah that is sad when your crafting system takes more time to make a handful of runes than anything else in the game. "



Why are you making stuff up? No way now did rnecrafting take more time than actual adventuring. That's silly talk.

[Korrick Ashguard]

Made by the same person that came up with the ridiculous ore collecting mini-game in ME2.



Both significant reasons to be repeatedly flogged and given a janitorial job.

[Basher of Glory]

If someone wants seriously be involved with runecrafting and is willing to spend the time then there is still the money problem.



Why do we have the option to protect the trading routes? Just for a one time reward?

What's about all these nobles? Why aren't the paying tributes?

In one conversation with Oghren he asks to get payed and we have the option to say "once the nobles payed their depths". Will this ever happen?

With other words: They (devs) should make the entire keep-thing at least a bit like Crossroad Keep. For what do I have that Lady Chamberlain? Just for one and a half quests?



Anyways: To fix that rune crafting system it requires virtually to rewrite the entire thing, my guess.

[urvashi]

Addai67 wrote...

So, anyone else stocking up on runes in Origins for your repeat playthroughs of Awakening? I did.

Plus... it must be said... that elf chick is just NOT Sandal. My elf mage wants to tell her "You just stand around here in case I want to enchant something? Learn a fireball spell and make yourself useful!"

I'm not stocking up on runes, but I made a point of getting grandmaster flame & lightning runes for Wade on my current Origins character so that he can avoid runecrafting altogether when he gets imported.
I'm really disappointed by the runecrafting system, for all the reasons listed, the hassle of going in & out of the keep with your non-PC runecrafter, the tedium of going through the tiers and of tracking down the recipes for all the tiers, etc. I only went through it at all to get the runes for Wade, after that I hated it so much I didn't do more than make a few journeyman runes because I had the stuff already available for them. 

[Zhijn]

I'll just throw in my support for it. Its a very annoying system, craft one to craft another. Blarg!.

I took one look at the rune crafting and never went back to it. Didnt even finish Wade's 2 quests due to it. Its a good thing importing a tank character is like importing a god, you just cant die hence i never needed the runes anyway. xD

[smadiso1]

Thanks for the vote of support kaimanaMM! I'll try to put together something worth reading for DA:O-A fans. For now, here's probably the most useful piece of information one can get for the Runecrafting system (doing the math as it were). Find the rune you want on left, buy what you need on right:
Rune Level                # of Novice Runes     # of Blank Runestones     # of Etching Agents
Journeyman                           1                                    1                                     0
Expert                                    2                                    3                                     0
Master                                   4                                    7                                      3
Grandmaster                          8                                   15                                    10
Masterpiece                          16                                  31                                    25
Paragon                                 32                                 63                                    56
All the base supplies you need will be with Cera in Vigil Keep's court room. Tracings are left up to the reader for now. The main guide I'm writing will have basic skill tips, total rune creation costs, tracing locations, rune effects and the chart above including all those special runes that get crafted from two specific kinds. I'll post a link when I find a website crazy enough to publish my findings.

[ElvenGoddess]

thanks smadiso1! that is good to have readily available.

now if i can just find the lightning rune i need.

[Epona222]

smadiso1 - that is a really useful checklist, thanks! I play games to have fun, not as an exercise in mental arithmetic, so having that table handy will be good for my next playthrough.



I found runecrafting a bit tedious and didn't really bother with it beyond making runes for Wade's special items. I agree with those who have suggested that it would have been easier if the recipes had been listed in a more coherent fashion, it was all a bit of a muddle trying to find the recipes that I wanted.

[CybAnt1]

Rune Level                # of Novice Runes     # of Blank Runestones     # of Etching Agents
Journeyman                           1                                    1                                     0
Expert                                    2                                    3                                     0
Master                                   4                                    7                                      3
Grandmaster                          8                                   15                                    10
Masterpiece                          16                                  31                                    25
Paragon                                 32                                 63                                    56

So we want to make a Paragon rune ... 

Yes, so the good news is the 63 blank runestones only take 1 inventory slot, and the 56 etching agents only take 1 inventory slot. Good, that's like a lot of crafting stuff (flasks, etc.) 

Here's the problem. The 32 novice runes you have to buy from Sera will take 32 inventory slots. OK. Well, remember, 125 is the max, if you want to go beyond it you're off into Toolset-land, it's fairly hard-coded. And in general misc. stuff you're carrying around usually only leaves me with at most 50-60 slots free. But even if you had all 125 slots free ... 

If I want to make 4 Paragon runes, I can't. It's physically impossible. Not all at once, anyway. 32 x 4 = 128. 

I understand. Game balance requires that you not be making as many Paragon runes as you want to all the time (not that it's going to stop modders). However, the way this limit is being imposed on players is through inventory limits & tedium. 

[Havokk7]

smadiso1 wrote...
I'll post a link when I find a website crazy enough to publish my findings.

Great! Seems like you've put a lot of work into this.  I look forward to seeing it.
As to where to publish it, might I suggest the Dragon Age wikia?
dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Age_Wiki

B

[smadiso1]

CybAnt1 wrote...

So we want to make a Paragon rune ... 

Yes, so the good news is the 63 blank runestones only take 1 inventory slot, and the 56 etching agents only take 1 inventory slot. Good, that's like a lot of crafting stuff (flasks, etc.) 

Here's the problem. The 32 novice runes you have to buy from Sera will take 32 inventory slots. OK. Well, remember, 125 is the max, if you want to go beyond it you're off into Toolset-land, it's fairly hard-coded. And in general misc. stuff you're carrying around usually only leaves me with at most 50-60 slots free. But even if you had all 125 slots free ... 

If I want to make 4 Paragon runes, I can't. It's physically impossible. Not all at once, anyway. 32 x 4 = 128. 

I understand. Game balance requires that you not be making as many Paragon runes as you want to all the time (not that it's going to stop modders). However, the way this limit is being imposed on players is through inventory limits & tedium. 

The inventory problem definitely is a major pain for runecrafting. Oddly, the vendors group the novice runes together in bundles of 99 so why not allow the same to happen in the backpack? I've found a few time saving tips I'll include in the guide, but I've found nothing on how to overcome the inventory limit. You're right CybAnt1, the inventory problem just further complicates an already tedious and muddled runecrafting system. If I can save even a few minutes, or prevent a headache, for just one player with this guide I'll feel the time was well justified in writing it.

Thanks for the suggestion on where to post Havokk7! I'll check it out and try to get a rough draft up asap.

[RurouniSaiya-jin]

The runecrafting system is frustrating, tedious and difficult?...really? Making a Paragon takes 1-2 minutes max and all you need is runecrafting maxed, money and the ability to count. If Bioware made this system anymore simplistic, they might as well just have a random person walk up to you and give you a few Paragon runes as soon as you maxed out runecrafting. Though, it's understandable why the system is so overly simplistic since it's an expansion and they don't have time to flesh it out and make it something more complicated.

[Yrkoon]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Rune Level                # of Novice Runes     # of Blank Runestones     # of Etching Agents
Journeyman                           1                                    1                                     0
Expert                                    2                                    3                                     0
Master                                   4                                    7                                      3
Grandmaster                          8                                   15                                    10
Masterpiece                          16                                  31                                    25
Paragon                                 32                                 63                                    56

So we want to make a Paragon rune ... 

Yes, so the good news is the 63 blank runestones only take 1 inventory slot, and the 56 etching agents only take 1 inventory slot. Good, that's like a lot of crafting stuff (flasks, etc.) 

Here's the problem. The 32 novice runes you have to buy from Sera will take 32 inventory slots. OK. Well, remember, 125 is the max, if you want to go beyond it you're off into Toolset-land, it's fairly hard-coded. And in general misc. stuff you're carrying around usually only leaves me with at most 50-60 slots free. But even if you had all 125 slots free ... 

If I want to make 4 Paragon runes, I can't. It's physically impossible. Not all at once, anyway. 32 x 4 = 128. 

I understand. Game balance requires that you not be making as many Paragon runes as you want to all the time (not that it's going to stop modders). However, the way this limit is being imposed on players is through inventory limits & tedium. 

LOL

Just.... wow.

Hey, just for my own personal amusement  (and to drive the point home)  could you calculate the basic cost of crafting 1  (one) paragon rune from scratch for us?  I'm interested to know  what the actual cost is beyond the ridiculous tetium.

[EmperorSahlertz]

so buying 2x99 blank runes and 2x99 rune etching and a whole bunch of the novice runes is too hard for you people?... Seriously, the amount of gold which gets thrown at you in Awakening makes the cost of the skil a non-ssue and can you mention one other crafting skill in the game which DIDN'T require you to track down the recipe?....

[super1urker]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

so buying 2x99 blank runes and 2x99 rune etching and a whole bunch of the novice runes is too hard for you people?... Seriously, the amount of gold which gets thrown at you in Awakening makes the cost of the skil a non-ssue and can you mention one other crafting skill in the game which DIDN'T require you to track down the recipe?....

The big difference would seem to be that with other items you craft, you click ONCE to get the finished product you want. Here, in order to craft a single Paragon rune, you have to first click 32 times to upgrade Novice runes to Journeyman, then 16 times to upgrade Novice to Expert, then eight times to upgrade Expert to Master, four to upgrade Master to Grandmaster, twice to upgrade Grandmaster to Masterpiece, and once to upgrade the two Masterpiece runes to Paragon. For a total of 63 clicks. That does not count having to scroll down the list of recipes between the various steps; the list itself is unsorted and hence annoying to have to go through as well.

Then there's having to empty the inventory a lot to make more than one, or else having to run back and forth to the merchant to buy the required ingredients.

So cost in in-game resources in Sovereigns or whatever: Not a factor. Real world nuisance factor of having to make sixty-two unnecessary clicks and having to go through a list that's not user-friendly: Definitely a factor.

It wouldn't be difficult to fix either. Just make the recipes work off of the base ingredients. I.e. instead of a Masterpiece Rune requiring two Grandmaster ones, just have it require 16 Novice Runes and multiply the other ingredients similarly. Of course, the way they've implemented it may be due to another problem that this creates: The inability to upgrade existing runes. I'd consider that a relatively lesser issue that could be resolved in other ways, though -- like increasing the selling price so you can "upgrade" by using it to offset the cost of a new one, or simply making two separate recipes (which would be messy). In any case, "upgrading" a rune feels silly -- how many times are you going to be chipping in new text on top of the existing text anyway? This isn't some medieval manuscript we're reusing, but a piece of stone.

[Yadk]

I agree with the OP, runecrafting is a pain.



hint: Give your main 1 point in runecrafting so you can see the recipes.

[The Other One]

Ellythe wrote...

I seriously considered respeccing my main character to runecrafting so I wouldn't have to run back and forth. Will rectify that from the beginning with my next playthrough.

Yep, this is what I did. Got profoundly tired of dragging Nate in and out of the Keep with me. So I bought a couple manuals of Focus and gave myself Master Runecrafting (or whatever level-4 is called). Made as many high-level Runes as I could stand, then re-Focused back to where I had been.

While playing DA:O, I kept wishing there was such a thing as Rune Crafting, so I was thrilled to see it in DA:A, but, well, as others have stated.....