216 réponses à ce sujet

[Chala]

Daeion wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

Eh, Chala (why do I keep getting the feeling that means weed?) has a point. In less... "advanced" countries (like the ones in Eastern Europe) and South America have enormously high prices on import stuff, including games, plus the monthly wages are lower.

I have a buddy who lives in Brazil and his PS3 cost him 1550 Brazilian Real which is about 878 US Dollars.

brazil is not south america, im from argentina and here the thing are different, is simple
brazil: good country in progress, and also has a stable economy
argentina: well is a good country, I love It but, the poor here can kill you for 2$ and Im not exagerating

[Dethateer]

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

Eh, Chala (why do I keep getting the feeling that means weed?) has a point. In less... "advanced" countries (like the ones in Eastern Europe) and South America have enormously high prices on import stuff, including games, plus the monthly wages are lower.

I have a buddy who lives in Brazil and his PS3 cost him 1550 Brazilian Real which is about 878 US Dollars.

brazil is not argentina, is simple
brazil: country in good progress, with an stable economy
argentina: well is a good country, I love It but, the poor here can kill you for 2$ and I am not exagerating

Minimum I've heard someone getting killed over here was... 4$-ish. Damn.

[Treekodar]

Daeion wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Treekodar wrote...

It's not about piracy, it's about re-selling games...

Very true. We are all focusing on the wrong issue. Both the pc and console publishers want to curb the resale of games.

Still bulls**t, though. They need to rethink the problem and catch up with the digital age, not try to own it.

There's PC game resllers?

That's the reason for DRM. Look at Game, Amazon and countless of other sites. They sell used games = no profit for the publishers. But ofc. you can't say that you don't want them to sell used games because that makes you look bad. It's far easier to blame piracy.
I recall the list is like so:
The reason there's less PC gamers -> piracy.
The reason developers don't want to make games for the PC -> piracy.
Global warming -> piracy, or well you get the point.

The real reasons though is: 
The reason there's less PC gamers -> The xbox/PS3 is far cheaper than a PC, when you look at price vs performance.
The reason developers don't want to make games for the PC -> For starters, that ain't true, but the developers aren't stupid either because there's a hefty amount of money to be had when you make games for the consoles.
Global warming -> Al Gore.

Modifié par Treekodar, 19 mars 2010 - 08:50 .

[Contempt6289]

xDarkicex wrote...

Contempt6289 wrote...

xDarkicex wrote...

Contempt6289 wrote...

xDarkicex wrote...

Question/statement how is cracking a game you payed for pirating? pirating is stealing a game,software, music or movie cracking a game is not stealing from anyone and doesn't take any of the companies profit just makes it so you can play the game with out a disk and get around stupid DRMs NOT STEALING.

While I'm not a pirate, and I firmly believe that piracy IS WRONG, but theft
=/= piracy
Please see the following image for a handy guide. i28.tinypic.com/2m7xd85.jpg

That being said, while cracking a game you have paied for may not be piracy per say, you are still in violation of the ToS that you agreed to upon installation and legally are no better than someone who flat out pirated the game.

I would bet you dollars to donuts that the game devs don't agree with that statement 

Put it this guy has car for sale and says you can buy it but you got to sign an agreement saying you will never fix or change the engine you sign car needs fixing you fix guy is mad, now thats cracking this is pirating guy ask you to buy car sign agreements you flip him off jump in the car and drive away which is going to get you jail time?

The key word in the line you highlited was **LEGALLY**, wheter the devs agree or not is immaterial.

No its not most the legal jargon is only there to please the higher up and the higher ups only care about how much money they are making so even if  Every owner of the PC game cracked it, they would still make the exact same amount of money if every owner of the PC game pirated it they wouldn't make squat and the higher ups that write BS legal laws would be all pissed

It comes down to this Cracking a game doesn't take money form there pockets so legally its not the same
Try getting someone convicted for doing what they like with there property, not an easy task even if they have a TOS
Try getting someone convicted for stealing very easy.

I'm assuming that you are young, so correct me if I'm wrong but that is a very naive point of view.

Yes, morally you are wrong when you pirate something.

Yes, cracking the DRM doesn't take money out of their pockets.

My point was that wether you purchase the game then crack it, or simply pirate it outright, you are still in the wrong and you have zero moral ground to stand on. You are not supirior to the pirate, you violated the EULA by bypassing the copy protection, you may not have malicious intentions but you still broke the "law", just like the pirate that you are so eager to talk down to. Is EA going to take legal action to punish you, someone who purchased and cracked the game? Not very likely, but then again the chances of them going after someone who downloaded the game are probably just as slim.

To be clear, I purchase all my games, and I sit thought the ****ing unskippable openings and deal with the annnoying diskchecks (why did I intall it to my HDD again?).

[Dethateer]

You also violate the EULA by cheating and modding.

[Treekodar]

Dethateer wrote...

You also violate the EULA by cheating and modding.

Ah, but that's what separates the PC from the consoles - modding. It's freaking amazing and it has kept Dune 2000 alive for me.
I know you weren't trying to bash modding by what you wrote, I just wanted to point out that modding -> amazing.

[Contempt6289]

Dethateer wrote...

You also violate the EULA by cheating and modding.

Assuming the cheats are not build in (GTA) or the modding is done with an authorized tool (DA:O).

[Chala]

cheating is a violation? OH SH-- (being pusrsued by the police)

[xDarkicex]

I am 28 my brother is getting a degree in game design and I know his opinion is better to have money in the pocket then none at all.

I think your point of view is naive at best.
Times companies have gone after pirating sites, up loaders and down loaders? many, see it on the news from time to time.
Times a companies has gone after a legit buyer for using a crack never not once.

Modifié par xDarkicex, 19 mars 2010 - 08:59 .

[Daeion]

Treekodar wrote...

Daeion wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Treekodar wrote...

It's not about piracy, it's about re-selling games...

Very true. We are all focusing on the wrong issue. Both the pc and console publishers want to curb the resale of games.

Still bulls**t, though. They need to rethink the problem and catch up with the digital age, not try to own it.

There's PC game resllers?

That's the reason for DRM. Look at Game, Amazon and countless of other sites. They sell used games = no profit for the publishers. But ofc. you can't say that you don't want them to sell used games because that makes you look bad. It's far easier to blame piracy.
I recall the list is like so:
The reason there's less PC gamers -> piracy.
The reason developers don't want to make games for the PC -> piracy.
Global warming -> piracy, or well you get the point.

The real reasons though is: 
The reason there's less PC gamers -> The xbox/PS3 is far cheaper than a PC, when you look at price vs performance.
The reason developers don't want to make games for the PC -> For starters, that ain't true, but the developers aren't stupid either because there's a hefty amount of money to be had when you make games for the consoles.
Global warming -> Al Gore.

I'm pretty sure you don't need DRM to prevent reselling of PC games as I believe it's actually in the EULA or something and it's also the same reason why companies don't take back open software.

I'll agree that the cost of a console tends to be less then a PC and will usually last you longer, but with PC games you tend to get better graphics, performance, and interfaces imo.

[Dethateer]

Contempt6289 wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

You also violate the EULA by cheating and modding.

Assuming the cheats are not build in (GTA) or the modding is done with an authorized tool (DA:O).

My point was that there's a lot of s**t you can do to violate the EULA, that no one gives a flying f**k about. You cracking your game to remove the risk of snapping the disk in half (as is the case with ME2's CE disks) won't bug Bioware in the slightest, despite them officially saying otherwise.

[cos1ne]

I'm also in agreement that piracy != stealing. Also I don't fully agree with calling pirates completely immoral they just operate under a different morality then mainstream America, and in fact the IP piracy community does have a complex set of mores and taboos regarding their actions.

To put it into perspective here's an example of stealing and piracy of my intellectual property (actually according to the registration, I believe it is Bioware and EA's IP since it's on the MB but I could be wrong on that).

Stealing = THIS SENTENCE WAS WRITTEN BY COS1NE (original property)
                    THIS SENTENCE WAS WRITTEN BY COS1NE (original property removed)

Piracy = THIS SENTENCE WAS WRITTEN BY COS1NE (original property)
                THIS SENTENCE WAS WRITTEN BY COS1NE (additional property created)

[Treekodar]

Daeion wrote...

Treekodar wrote...

Daeion wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Treekodar wrote...

It's not about piracy, it's about re-selling games...

Very true. We are all focusing on the wrong issue. Both the pc and console publishers want to curb the resale of games.

Still bulls**t, though. They need to rethink the problem and catch up with the digital age, not try to own it.

There's PC game resllers?

That's the reason for DRM. Look at Game, Amazon and countless of other sites. They sell used games = no profit for the publishers. But ofc. you can't say that you don't want them to sell used games because that makes you look bad. It's far easier to blame piracy.
I recall the list is like so:
The reason there's less PC gamers -> piracy.
The reason developers don't want to make games for the PC -> piracy.
Global warming -> piracy, or well you get the point.

The real reasons though is: 
The reason there's less PC gamers -> The xbox/PS3 is far cheaper than a PC, when you look at price vs performance.
The reason developers don't want to make games for the PC -> For starters, that ain't true, but the developers aren't stupid either because there's a hefty amount of money to be had when you make games for the consoles.
Global warming -> Al Gore.

I'm pretty sure you don't need DRM to prevent reselling of PC games as I believe it's actually in the EULA or something and it's also the same reason why companies don't take back open software.

I'll agree that the cost of a console tends to be less then a PC and will usually last you longer, but with PC games you tend to get better graphics, performance, and interfaces imo.

All too true, but the fact remains: The publishers want DRM and it affects only one group - the paying one.

[xDarkicex]

Dethateer wrote...

Contempt6289 wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

You also violate the EULA by cheating and modding.

Assuming the cheats are not build in (GTA) or the modding is done with an authorized tool (DA:O).

My point was that there's a lot of s**t you can do to violate the EULA, that no one gives a flying f**k about. You cracking your game to remove the risk of snapping the disk in half (as is the case with ME2's CE disks) won't bug Bioware in the slightest, despite them officially saying otherwise.

Exactly you already gave them their 100$ they don't care if you break those silly rules.
Bioware lets you upload mods for me2 on this site even though its against the games rules..

Modifié par xDarkicex, 19 mars 2010 - 09:03 .

[ModerateOsprey]

slimgrin wrote...

what about a variation on the cd key concept? 

I have no problem registering my games online.

Illegal copies could be recognized by internet providers and that info could be relayed to the publisher. Maybe they already do something like this.

I have to say absolutely not your final point here. If this kind of policing is foisted onto ISPs, then they lose their common carrier status. I want my ISP to provide me access onto the internet, not control in any way, shape or form what content I access. Sadly, there are the beginnings of deals starting to take shape that is beginning to follow this model. This is also related to the net neutrality debate - we don't want ISPs dictating what can or cannot be delivered through its service. This potentially could fragment the internet and we will end up connecting to the walled gardens of our ISP where the only content available is provided by those with the deepest pockets.

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

1- a lot of FREE and GOOD free content for people who bought a original game.

jewbagel wrote...

Also I think Bioware really showed what should be done. Simple disc checks with their recent games, treat your fans fairly and both their recent titles sold very well.

This is the right way IMO. I would add to the above and say I would be willing for a games company to check my game installation when I install either free or paid for DLC. Game registration does not worry me either. I don't even think it is an invasion of my privacy if they want me to register on all my domestic computers.

[abisha]

so you saying they making less PC games by simple fact of piracy, that's ridiculous.

xbox is just a way of controlling peoplethat's why they trying to push people.

also their hardware is limited, so they don't really need to do additional coding.

like DX, or 64 bit coding. and the factory that producing them makes a ****load of money, how fast is a console outdated compared to a PC, witch you can upgrade?

and personaly i rater hang my self then ever gonna play on a console, but that's personal

[Contempt6289]

xDarkicex wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

Contempt6289 wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

You also violate the EULA by cheating and modding.

Assuming the cheats are not build in (GTA) or the modding is done with an authorized tool (DA:O).

My point was that there's a lot of s**t you can do to violate the EULA, that no one gives a flying f**k about. You cracking your game to remove the risk of snapping the disk in half (as is the case with ME2's CE disks) won't bug Bioware in the slightest, despite them officially saying otherwise.

Exactly you already gave them their 100$ they don't care if you break those silly rules.
Bioware lets you upload mods for me2 on this site even though its against the games rules..

You completely missed my point, I understand that Bioware/EA is not going to care that you purchased the game and cracked the DRM for your personal use, I wan't saying otherwise.

On a side note, who do you think put out the no-cd cracks/DRM bypasses that you seem so fond of, because it's certainly not a legitimate orginzation.

[Treekodar]

Contempt6289 wrote...

xDarkicex wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

Contempt6289 wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

You also violate the EULA by cheating and modding.

Assuming the cheats are not build in (GTA) or the modding is done with an authorized tool (DA:O).

My point was that there's a lot of s**t you can do to violate the EULA, that no one gives a flying f**k about. You cracking your game to remove the risk of snapping the disk in half (as is the case with ME2's CE disks) won't bug Bioware in the slightest, despite them officially saying otherwise.

Exactly you already gave them their 100$ they don't care if you break those silly rules.
Bioware lets you upload mods for me2 on this site even though its against the games rules..

You completely missed my point, I understand that Bioware/EA is not going to care that you purchased the game and cracked the DRM for your personal use, I wan't saying otherwise.

On a side note, who do you think put out the no-cd cracks/DRM bypasses that you seem so fond of, because it's certainly not a legitimate orginzation.

Ubisoft released a no-cd crack for Rainbow Six Vegas 2, the only problem was that the crack Ubisoft gave out was from a ******-'pirate'. Fail.

[Dethateer]

What, you think I didn't enjoy their services before my ME2 (it was delayed 2 weeks, in relation to the NA release, one in relation to the standard version release in Europe) order arrived out of fear that the forums would spoil the whole game for me by the time I got to play it?



You seem to be unable to understand that DRM DOES NOT PREVENT PIRACY. IT ONLY LOSES THE DEVS MONEY AND TIME WASTED ON ITS DEVELOPMENT.

[Contempt6289]

Treekodar wrote...

Contempt6289 wrote...

xDarkicex wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

Contempt6289 wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

You also violate the EULA by cheating and modding.

Assuming the cheats are not build in (GTA) or the modding is done with an authorized tool (DA:O).

My point was that there's a lot of s**t you can do to violate the EULA, that no one gives a flying f**k about. You cracking your game to remove the risk of snapping the disk in half (as is the case with ME2's CE disks) won't bug Bioware in the slightest, despite them officially saying otherwise.

Exactly you already gave them their 100$ they don't care if you break those silly rules.
Bioware lets you upload mods for me2 on this site even though its against the games rules..

You completely missed my point, I understand that Bioware/EA is not going to care that you purchased the game and cracked the DRM for your personal use, I wan't saying otherwise.

On a side note, who do you think put out the no-cd cracks/DRM bypasses that you seem so fond of, because it's certainly not a legitimate orginzation.

Ubisoft released a no-cd crack for Rainbow Six Vegas 2, the only problem was that the crack Ubisoft gave out was from a ******-'pirate'. Fail.

I was actually going to put that in my post, I was looking for a link.

Should Reloaded go after Ubisoft for "stealing" something they did?

http://torrentfreak....-to-drm-080718/

Modifié par Contempt6289, 19 mars 2010 - 09:12 .

[Dethateer]

No, they shouldn't. But it renders your argument invalid, since a DEV used something you call illegal.

[xDarkicex]

Contempt6289 wrote...

xDarkicex wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

Contempt6289 wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

You also violate the EULA by cheating and modding.

Assuming the cheats are not build in (GTA) or the modding is done with an authorized tool (DA:O).

My point was that there's a lot of s**t you can do to violate the EULA, that no one gives a flying f**k about. You cracking your game to remove the risk of snapping the disk in half (as is the case with ME2's CE disks) won't bug Bioware in the slightest, despite them officially saying otherwise.

Exactly you already gave them their 100$ they don't care if you break those silly rules.
Bioware lets you upload mods for me2 on this site even though its against the games rules..

You completely missed my point, I understand that Bioware/EA is not going to care that you purchased the game and cracked the DRM for your personal use, I wan't saying otherwise.

On a side note, who do you think put out the no-cd cracks/DRM bypasses that you seem so fond of, because it's certainly not a legitimate orginzation.

What is your point? your point is Moot and you just admitted it by saying they don't care.
well I personally get mine from a hacker group with strike rules against name dropping you got to have coding skills to get in and its on a strike invite only basis but for most people I would say skidrow makes a lot of them and their cracks are virus free if you get them from the source so thats pretty legit if you ask me.

[Homey C-Dawg]

Just to jump in with my 2¢ regarding OP...

I am a huge C&C fan and had every intention of buying the new game, but changed my mind after seeing that they were using an always-online DRM (regardless of what they call it). It's a real shame, but EALA was already on thin ice with me because of how they've been handling themselves.

As for ME3, I certainly hope it won't have this always-online BS, because I'd really like to have it in my collection. Otherwise I'll have to play it on a friends 360 (meh) or wait for a reliable community fix before shelling out the money for it.

[Dethateer]

I nearly preordered C&C4...

[Homey C-Dawg]

Dethateer wrote...

I nearly preordered C&C4...

I feel your pain.