126 réponses à ce sujet

[Mattyb710]

This thread needs to be put out of it's misery.

[attackfighter]

VernRyan wrote...
Oblivion and Morrowind try for something different but in the end what holds them back is the storylines they try and keep. You are free to go wherever and do whatever but in the end your drawn back to their lacklustre storylines.

I agree that Oblivion had a retarded plot, but Morrowind's was pretty good. I'd argue that Morrowind had a better stroyline than the master of all RPGs: Baldurs Gate 2. Baldurs Gate 2's story is presented in an excellant way, but Morrowind had much more depth and meaning to it.

[Fishy]

i dunno why everyone talk crap about NWN .. For me it's was the greatest RPG of all time with final fantasy 7 and Baldur gate 2.



I love DA:O ... VERY good .. But after 15 hours of playtime... I'm still not sure if it's better than NWN.. Because in NWN you could do 100 playthrought and never had the same dialogue depending of your faction,GOD,class,RACE..



Oh and ARIBETH BOOB

[Pyroclase]

Massive sandbox world with open ended options (oblivion type) + great voice acting and cut scenes and story line (DA:O) = hugely over budget bloated terrabyte sized game which would suck the life from you move surely than if Vlad Dracule himself were invited into your house. So on todays machines, with todays budgets and only wanting to pay reasonable money for said game (not remortgage the house) you have to take your choice and enjoy it. Personally i love Oblivion (modded with OOO etc) and FA:3 (modded) and DA:O (only lv 9 and wondering when i am going to be able to afford my 1st specialist class book!)

[bones09]

Oblivion was a good game. It wasn't great, but it was good (I'm one of those Morrowind > Oblivion people, for the most part). The thing is that TES games are entirely different than the typical Bioware RPG. I absolutely love both types of games. I've spent a TON of hours on Baldur's Gate, BG2 (though not DA), KOTOR, Morrowind, Oblivion, etc. IMO both companies are at the top of the RPG genre, and they both have entirely different approaches. You have Bioware going for tactical, party-based, and story-heavy adventures. Bethesda is more about traditional PnP experience with an open world (though they've started moving more toward a story-based approach).



I hope Bioware and Bethesda both keep doing what they're doing. Both companies are constantly pushing forward. There will be some hits and some misses, but it's nice to have the two different approaches out there.

[Pyroclase]

Massive sandbox world with open ended options (oblivion type) + great voice acting and cut scenes and story line (DA:O) = hugely over budget bloated terrabyte sized game which would suck the life from you move surely than if Vlad Dracule himself were invited into your house. So on todays machines, with todays budgets and only wanting to pay reasonable money for said game (not remortgage the house) you have to take your choice and enjoy it. Personally i love Oblivion (modded with OOO etc) and FA:3 (modded) and DA:O (only lv 9 and wondering when i am going to be able to afford my 1st specialist class book!)

[miltos33]

It isn't as though we get too many crpg's these days that there isn't enough room for different styles within the same genre.

Bethesda as a company have a very clear mission statement: "The most important character is the world" and this is why I like them.

Bioware as a company also have a clear mission statement: "The most important character is the story" which is why I also like them.

[Turparulla]

Sparklehorse69 wrote...

Morrowind was waay better than Oblivion. After logging hundreds of hours playing and modding Morrowind, I found Oblivion to be a beautiful, shallow dissapointment.

Dragon Age Origins, imo, is the best rpg to come in ages.

The storytelling in morrowind was way weaker than the storytelling in oblivion. Morrowind almost made me stop playing any bethesda game, it was just boring.

Oblivion at least had a main story to follow. Morrowinds main story was so boring and shallow, that most people forgot about in the first 40 minutes of playing.

[Default137]

madskillet wrote...

Tiskenburdle wrote...


Oblivion is a Simulation style RPG... I spent countless hours protecting my forest grove from bandits, while occasionally venturing off to complete a quest.. I simply can't do that in Dragon Age. Does that make Dragon Age inferior?

lol, WHAT? how is that fun at all? what was the point? you know an rpg is bad when you have to pretend like that.

Have you ever played DnD?

Thats basically what Oblivion/F3 is like, you pretend, you make your own story, rather then be given a set one, one of my first Khajit characters spawned without pants for some reason, so I set him up as a former drunken Khajiti martial artist, who didn't ever wear pants, because he was either to drunk to realize it, or because they disrupted his attacks.

I ended up building him full hand to hand, and beat the game with him, he was one of the most amusing characters I had, and was great fun to roleplay as him, as he constantly was drunk, which added new dialogue choices to everything, and it was just fun.

Oblivion/F3 are not linear games, if you play them for a storyline, you will be disappointed, their purpose is not to give you an overarching story that makes you weep at the end with how great it is, or how much the characters worked together, its just is to give you the means to let your own imagination run wild with, they gave out a basic reason for your character being there, but you never have to do anything about that, if you never talk to the guy ( "Bah! I don't believe this Emperor buggery even exists, I won't go talk to so and so" ) then the game lets you, and the event NEVER happens, meaning hey, you were right!

I mean, they gave out the mod tools on day one, and they are such easy tools to use, you can make whatever you want, from giant castles with huge overarching storylines, to little homes for you in the wild, to new places to explore, to new NPCs, new cities, new EVERYTHING, heck, if you wanted to, you could rebuild Kvatch after its destruction, and do a bunch of quests that either make you the new Regeant, or someone else.

As for Morrowind > Oblivion, Morrowind is only better if you talk about Raven Rock, otherwise, Morrowind has a really terrible, cliche story, and the exploration was never really a big part, all the towns farking looked the same browning white, they all had the EXACT same lines of dialoge, which led to everyone talking about the same boring stuff.

With Oblivion, the world is just so huge, and so much a character, and the towns where all so different from each other, it made exploring so much fun, and you wanted to find the next town, with Morrowind, I just kinda settled with that starting town in the middle, and just kind of ignored all the rest of them, as I did the main quest, which I never actually was able to finish.

Modifié par Default137, 08 novembre 2009 - 07:50 .

[Dingusaurus]

vertigofm wrote...

Oblivion is a Simulation style RPG... I spent countless hours protecting my forest grove from bandits, while occasionally venturing off to complete a quest.. I simply can't do that in Dragon Age. Does that make Dragon Age inferior?

It does two things:

1. Makes Dragon Age superior
2. Makes you look REALLY cool

So in a game you had to pretend you were protecting a forest from bandits?  When all it was were random bandit encounters?  That's a crap game if it can't give you a real purpose- or at least a quest that gives you some purpose.

That's like playing with legos and having to pretend the pieces go together and you've built something awesome because the directions don't amount to anything.

And because trying to get all snug with a NPC witch from a dark forest...while battling Orcs and Demons with your Dwarf and Elvish partners is just that much cooler.  Idiot.

[brgillespie]

Oblivion was fun to cheat in. Make a super-powered character with 255 skill in every area. Jump, like... 50 feet into the air. Run as fast as a horse.



Also, on the PC at least, download some of the humor mods. There was one with ridiculous spells intended just to create havoc.



Spawning one of those giant cave trolls (or whatever they were called) into the middle of the market in the central town made for great fun. Or spawning giant boulders above the heads' of the guards. Or creating massive goblin armies that slaughter everything. Stupidly-powerful lightning spells. I would enter caves, fire off the spell a few times at the entrance, and voila. Everything in the damn cave was instantly dead.



Good times.



Anyway, Oblivion and DA:O are different games.

[GunslingerOfKa]

Yes, Oblivion and DA:O are very different games.

Oblivion didn't end as fast as DA:O, but DA:O is certainly a lot better.

[MarshalVaako]

Oblivion was okay, but the few mistakes they made like the level scaling, using five voice actors for everything and so forth just destroyed the game for me. I haven't beat it yet, really need to get around to just finishing it one day.



Fallout 3 though is a great game. No its not Isometric or turn based. But if you judge it on its own merits its a great game. Very atmospheric, sandbox done right.



Dragon Age is actually fun, unlike Oblivion. I really don't want to compare it to Fallout 3 though, lets just say I like both.

[Jalem001]

Comparing Oblivion to Dragon Age is silly. That's what it comes down to. Its two different games trying to do two very different things. Oblivion lacked many RPG elements, but if Bethesda continues down the path they're going down then we can expect things to get better. Fallout 3 was promising.

[OG Swift]

MarshalVaako wrote...

Oblivion was okay, but the few mistakes they made like the level scaling, using five voice actors for everything and so forth just destroyed the game for me. I haven't beat it yet, really need to get around to just finishing it one day.

Fallout 3 though is a great game. No its not Isometric or turn based. But if you judge it on its own merits its a great game. Very atmospheric, sandbox done right.

Dragon Age is actually fun, unlike Oblivion. I really don't want to compare it to Fallout 3 though, lets just say I like both.

well the truth about Oblivion is real.. the game itself was made very nicely .. quests were fun for me and that atmosphere was great .. i could even accept 5-man team dubbin everyone (lol) but level scaling ruined my game.. it wasn't fun anymore when all weak enemies dissappeared and only some stupid portals still openin with stupid mutants ... that really sucked

[Default137]

Once again, it boils down to opinion, not fact.



I liked Oblivion, I set up my own story there, and set out on my own adventure, I made a few mods that enhanced this adventure, and I had a really great time, it felt like a really well written DnD session, which the only ending being my own imagination.



I also like Dragon Age Origins, its more linear, and the story is not my own, but its obviously written very well, I will remember the characters, and the story for some time, however, it is not my story, it is my characters story, and the world is forced on me.



Saying either is a bad game is just being silly, they are both good, its a matter of opinion, especially when you read the opinions as to why most of you have, saying one game is better due to story, would be like me saying Spellforce is a far greater game then DA:O due to the better RTS control, and addition.

[VanDraegon]

I appreciated the expanse of the world and the gorgeous graphics but frankly, the interactions with npcs were repetative and once you entered one tower thing through a gate, you have entered them all. I couldnt finish....

[TheRealIncarnal]

I'd say that Oblivion is actually a decent game, although I enjoy it far less than Dragon Age. It's just a very different kind of game, and nonlinear to a fault. The series has actually reached a point where I think that it could benefit from a bit more focus on the story, or some down time where I won't feel like a jackass for never visiting Weyeon Priory until an ingame year after I started.

Still, I wouldn't mind a new ElderScrolls game provided that it did something very different this time, preferably in Akavir so it could be a little further from the norm.

Oh, that's actually one big thing that both the Elder Scrolls series and Dragon Age do very right, they make the world feel like it has history and geography. Although the geography of Oblivion was at times a little jarring, but it was much better in the expansion, which is why I think that they need to take TES:V a little out of it's normal element, kind of like they did with Shiviring Isles. 

Modifié par TheRealIncarnal, 08 novembre 2009 - 09:21 .

[Tiskenburdle]

Johohoho.Ehehehe wrote...

That's exactly the problem. I think that every game should be three-dimensional and I do not mean graphic. That is to say, the size of the game can be approximately expressed by the world's size that represents two dimensions. The third dimension is obviously the depth - storyline, character, atmosphere etc. Oblivion and Fallout 3 are huuuge games in the 2D meaning. Immense worlds which take shattering your W key just to run it accross, your hair going gray to explore every nook and cranny of it, to pick up and sell all the spoons, cups, mugs, plates and unwashed pants. I would gladly sacrifice a substantial portion of that size for the sake of the third dimension. I would prefer one house with a lot of fun, quests, puzzles, character etc. rather than a dead city of a size of New York with random ambushes and locations. I would prefer a short novel that I will remember to a book of 1.000 pages full of flat characters, bad storyline and random-generated text with the great option to take all the letters and puzzle my own story with them.

I understand your dimensional metaphor, and although I believe there are more dimensions to be accounted for in terms of expanse and quality of a game, let's restrict it to this for the time being.

In terms of expanse, what is bigger... A 10' x 10' x 2' cube or a 2' x 2' x 10' cube?  The amount of World in Oblivion is Astronomically bigger than that of Dragon Age... That's okay, because Dragon Age makes up for it with interactivity and story.  But given the spacial metaphor, Oblivion would come out on top... The Story and Interaction of Dragon Age is immensly better than Oblivion, but not 100x so... Perhaps 20x.   The World however is at least 100x smaller.

It's understandable that you weigh the storyline more heavily than world expansiveness, but that's a matter of personal preferance.  Someone else might do the opposite.

The novel metaphor is perhaps a bit inaccurate though..  Primarily because the benefit of a game which focuses upon world expansiveness, is the ease in which it may be fleshed out.  Dragon Age is a great game and a great story, but it is far easier to create objects and stories within a game like Oblivion which provides an expansive world, than it is to create entirely new area's that expand upon Dragon Age. 

To reuse your book metaphor, it requires less effort to turn that 1000 page boring book into an interesting epic, than it does to expand the shorter interesting novel into an interesting 1000 page epic.  The reason for this is that all the work to create world has already been done.. All you need is a story.. In Dragon Age, the story is great, but the world is relatively small.. You not only need another story, but to expand it you need to create more World.  It's an entirely different focus and ones not really superior to the other.

I completely understand where everyone who has no interest in player mods or creating stories themselves would view Dragon Age as vastly superior.  Because in my opinion the Main Story arc is vastly superior in Dragon Age.  The World however is much smaller, and because of that there is less than can be done within the world without recreating the world itself.

I don't want to sound as if I'm defending Oblivion as the better game, and I'm afraid I'm starting to.. I just don't believe people are looking at this as objectively as they might if the game in question was a flight simulator...  I firmly believe they are very different games which focus upon almost entirely different goals, and I don't think it's fair to say Oblivion is inferior because the story isn't as good, any more than it is to say Dragon Age isn't as good because the World isn't as big.

[Ebassist]

I've thought for years if we locked Bioware and Bethesda up in a room together for three years we'd emerge with the perfect RPG, or more likely we'd end up with a load of dead game designers who'd long ago resorted to cannibalism.



Anyhow the point I'm trying to make is they are both great at what they do, and their games are both always similar to their companies traditional blueprint, with both strengths and failings. Bioware write better characters and stories and Bethesda are fantastic at creating open, breathing worlds.



And both their style of games are ****es to make, despite their games being critically and commercially successful you don't really see anyone trying to emulate them. Bethesda don't really have any challangers in their RPGs other than perhaps the Gothic series. Bioware really only have Obsidian to compete with them, a company that shares a lot of history and heritage with bioware. Hell throw Obsidian in there and all, I'm looking forward to Alpha protocol and some of the guys from the fallout/planescape days are there! Couldn't hurt.