128 réponses à ce sujet

[Ramikadyc]

I just wanted to share this with anyone who doesn't already know. The C-Base decision has been discussed several times; I even made a topic discussing what your squad might think of you in ME3 depending on your decision. Turns out, your squad seems to have different opinions after the battle than they did in the heat of the moment. I've made a list here of every squad member's suggestion as to whether or not they think keeping the base is a good idea. Note that these opinions are stated inside the Collector base, after TIM tells you to salvage it.

Garrus: I don't know, Shepard. What happened here was horrible, but we have to stop the Reapers. If we destroy this base then all these people died for nothing.
Grunt: He's right. When your enemy gives you a weapon, you use it. You might not get another chance.
Jack: Seriously? Shepard, he's a user, just like Collectors.
Jacob: It's better because we'll do it? Shepard, this is way over the line.
Kasumi: Shep, he's talking about doing it all again. How will that help anything?
Legion: Shepard-Commander, this facility is data. It has no inherent ethical value. Destroying it will not return those lost. Keeping it may save others.
Miranda: I'm not so sure. Seeing it first hand--using anything from this base seems like a betrayal.
Mordin: Agreed. Collector base horrific. Vile experiments, but should use what's here. Risks galaxy to ignore opportunity.
Samara: You have not really defeated the enemy if you adopt their methods.
Tali: Shepard, we fought to stop it. Us using it doesn't make it right.
Thane: Shepard/Siha, I've made a life of killing those who deserve to die. We must struggle to not become what we hate.
Zaeed: Someone gives you a weapon, you don't complain that it's dirty--you use it.

(note: Morinth does not have a specific dialogue line for this decision; Either she says nothing or she uses Samara's line. I'd be willing to bet on what her opinion would lean to, though...)

These are their definitive dialogue lines--I've checked the audio files and there are no alternatives for them (like in some situations were crew members have both a statement and a reaction recorded, yet only one makes the statement and only one makes the reaction, which varies depending on who you bring). All of this, of course, is in stark contrast to some of their opinions AFTER you make the decision. For example, if you decide to keep the C-Base and you speak with Legion on the Normandy afterwards, he tells you that he hopes you don't use the base because humans have so much potential to build their own future, and Mordin tells you that your decision was risky and dangerous, that Cerberus can't be trusted, and that he would not have salvaged the base--despite both of them suggesting otherwise at the time of the decision.

edit: Highlighted names for quick reference as to whether or not each individual's opinion falls into the Renegade or Paragon choice category.

Modifié par Ramikadyc, 19 mars 2010 - 10:46 .

[javierabegazo]

Wow, first time I've heard Legion's response, very interesting.

[KillaKow]

I think once they see TIM's evil smirk after he gets the base they realize they probably shouldn't have given him such a massive tech cache.

[Vaenier]

Legion: Shepard-Commander, this facility is data. It has no inherent ethical value. Destroying it will not return those lost. Keeping it may save others.

His response sums it up pretty nicely. No need to cloud the debate with emotions.

[Schroing]

Almost seems like there was -supposed- to be some diversity of opinion afterwards.

[Bigdoser]

Its also interesting what legions says after you destory the base as well.

[SofaKingLiveBXNY]

I never heard many of the Miranda is usually wit me in my games..but I think the in-game speech is just talk...the post game is more than likely thier true feelings...The other dialogue would lead you to believe using any reaper tech is wrong, even tho the normandy has reaper tech.. but using thier base goes againt the games sense of ethics IMO

[Vaenier]

Its funny how Bioware screwed up their duologue. They could not even keep their personalities consistent for 10 whole minutes...

[Mcjon01]

What, no love for Kasumi just because she isn't real yet? "Shep, he's talking about doing it all again! How will that help anything?"



I like it because besides Jack's, it's the only one that focuses less on the morality of what happened at the base, and more on how TIM is a just a horrible, horrible person all around. Well, that and because of the nickname.

[Ramikadyc]

Mcjon01 wrote...

What, no love for Kasumi just because she isn't real yet? "Shep, he's talking about doing it all again! How will that help anything?"

I like it because besides Jack's, it's the only one that focuses less on the morality of what happened at the base, and more on how TIM is a just a horrible, horrible person all around. Well, that and because of the nickname.

Well, since you mentioned it I'll add it. Her response is in the game files, but she hasn't been released yet, and while I know this forum is meant for spoilers, I didn't want to spoil unreleased content, no matter how small.

[Alamar2078]

I think the differing opinions are odd but understandable. They may not mind using the knowledge in the base but they certainly wouldn't want to see TIM fire up the base to make little Volus or Turian Reapers

[Ramikadyc]

Alamar2078 wrote...

I think the differing opinions are odd but understandable. They may not mind using the knowledge in the base but they certainly wouldn't want to see TIM fire up the base to make little Volus or Turian Reapers

It's hard for me to believe that they somehow thought at the time that the Alliance or Council or some other similar entity would be given the base instead of Cerberus. The only logical conclusion is "keep base, give to Cerberus."

[GuardianAngel470]

javierabegazo wrote...

Wow, first time I've heard Legion's response, very interesting.

Really, first time?  I always take legion with me.  Combat drone to occupy Harbinger while me and legion tag team with the widow.  Very effective.

[Ecael]

I don't know, I'd take the advice of:

A. Garrus
B. Grunt
C. Mordin
D. Legion
E. Zaeed
F. The Illusive Man

over:

1. Jack
2. Jacob
3. Kasumi
4. Miranda
5. Samara
6. Tali
7. Thane

...specifically because of Mordin's and Legion's advice. They're the most logical ones on the squad (would be nice if EDI had an opinion though).

Even if the Illusive Man smirks the way he does, he's also equally furious when Shepard dies destroying the base. When Joker reports back to him, he tells him that they will move on fighting for humanity's interests even without Shepard (the same way Shepard would have told him that he will continue fighting for humanity's interests without Cerberus).

Still, I'll destroy the base with my Paragon and save it with my Renegade, and see how each turns out.

[Ramikadyc]

Ecael wrote...


Still, I'll destroy the base with my Paragon and save it with my Renegade, and see how each turns out.

Do you have a "canon" playthrough? I have one that I brought from ME1 into ME2, and I'll replay it closer to ME3 and bring it into the sequel. I know others do, but don't you have a "this is my story" game, or is it more of "I just want to experience the stories" games? Just curious.

I'm saving the base in mine.

[SofaKingLiveBXNY]

I wouldn't listen to Grunt or Zaeed just because...I liked Grunt alot but he is like 2 weeks old and Zaeed is not leadership material anyway..Garrus agreeing with TIM bothers me but at the same time he is a soldier i'd expect that kinda, his logic is flawed tho.. Jack's opinion means nothin to me..
Legion couldnt decide on his own ppl so he can fall back..I like him but he's an AI they dont understand human greed.

The people I take into the most consideration on the topic all say blow it except Mordin..but at the end I think he realize's it wasnt good in TIM sole possession..

Both cereberus employees, Miranda and Jacob they kno more about TIM and cereberus than anyone else even Shep they don't think its worth it in his hands that says alot. Samara is the oldest and wisest in the group..If she doesnt feel its right its probably not..


*on all my playthroughs I have destroyed the base so far... My OG Shepard(65/35 Paragon) couldnt trust TIM... the next one is more renegade and still couldnt give him the base...

the one Im playing now is like 85% paragon Adept J3sus Shepard...I might give him the base on this one just to give myself a different dynamic. But this shepard should hate cereberus the most it would be against his nature but Idk

Modifié par SofaKingLiveBXNY, 19 mars 2010 - 07:29 .

[Bigdoser]

I like samara response the most thats the reason why i blew that thing sky high.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 19 mars 2010 - 07:26 .

[KarmaTheAlligator]

I'd take Legion's advice... about making our own future with technology we thought up instead of using someone else's, but not about the base.



Mordin also stats that if a species isn't ready for the technology, it'll be a disaster like with the Krogans. I really don't understand why those two change their mind on this.

[Vaenier]

IF the base was the only way to defeat the Reapers, would you still blow it up because it is evil? [This is a hypothetical situation, don't say you will find another way.]

[Ramikadyc]

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...


Mordin also stats that if a species isn't ready for the technology, it'll be a disaster like with the Krogans. I really don't understand why those two change their mind on this.

Mordin also says that the technology should come about as a means of compensating for limitations. One could argue that the current galactic races need to make up for a lot of shortcoming if they are to have any hope of defeating the Reapers--thus, the Collector Base.

[KarmaTheAlligator]

Ramikadyc wrote...

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...


Mordin also stats that if a species isn't ready for the technology, it'll be a disaster like with the Krogans. I really don't understand why those two change their mind on this.

Mordin also says that the technology should come about as a means of compensating for limitations. One could argue that the current galactic races need to make up for a lot of shortcoming if they are to have any hope of defeating the Reapers--thus, the Collector Base.

Ok, so Mordin's opinion makes more sense, but keeping the base would be playing into the Reapers' plans of controlling our progress.

[Terraneaux]

It was retarded that we couldn't hand it over to the council, in any case.

[Mcjon01]

Vaenier wrote...

IF the base was the only way to defeat the Reapers, would you still blow it up because it is evil? [This is a hypothetical situation, don't say you will find another way.]

If it were truly the only way to defeat the Reapers, I probably wouldn't blow it up out of sheer principle.  I would, however, hold the thing as ransom over TIM.  If he doesn't contact Alliance and Citadel forces right then and there to inform them of what we've found and how to get to it, I'm just going to sit down, blow the base, and take a ride into a supermassive black hole.  It's a risky bluff, sure, but I think TIM is intelligent enough to realize that giving the entire galaxy access to the technology rather than letting humans horde it, is still preferable to everyone getting wiped out.

[Ramikadyc]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

@Ramikadyc
What about Morinth? Same as Samara?

Either it's the same or she doesn't voice her opinion. I went through the audio files and couldn't find one for her.

edit: Actually she's only got one unique line in the whole Suicide Mission, just went and checked. The rest is recycled from Samara.

Modifié par Ramikadyc, 19 mars 2010 - 07:42 .