128 réponses à ce sujet

[Vaenier]

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...

Ramikadyc wrote...

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...


Mordin also stats that if a species isn't ready for the technology, it'll be a disaster like with the Krogans. I really don't understand why those two change their mind on this.

Mordin also says that the technology should come about as a means of compensating for limitations. One could argue that the current galactic races need to make up for a lot of shortcoming if they are to have any hope of defeating the Reapers--thus, the Collector Base.

Ok, so Mordin's opinion makes more sense, but keeping the base would be playing into the Reapers' plans of controlling our progress.

Not that argument again... They dont want us to have their advanced weapon and shielding technilogies... Making them reliant on the relays is one thing, advancing their weapons to uberness is not what they planned.

[Mcjon01]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

@Ramikadyc
What about Morinth? Same as Samara?

There's no audio listed for Morinth, so I assume she just uses Samara's line.

[Ramikadyc]

Vaenier wrote...

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...

Ramikadyc wrote...

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...


Mordin also stats that if a species isn't ready for the technology, it'll be a disaster like with the Krogans. I really don't understand why those two change their mind on this.

Mordin also says that the technology should come about as a means of compensating for limitations. One could argue that the current galactic races need to make up for a lot of shortcoming if they are to have any hope of defeating the Reapers--thus, the Collector Base.

Ok, so Mordin's opinion makes more sense, but keeping the base would be playing into the Reapers' plans of controlling our progress.

Not that argument again... They dont want us to have their advanced weapon and shielding technilogies... Making them reliant on the relays is one thing, advancing their weapons to uberness is not what they planned.

To add to this: note that the Thanix Cannon upgrade for the Normandy--the gun which destroys the Collector Ship during the Suicide Mission dogfight--was based on technology recovered from Sovereign's main gun after the battle of the Citadel. It's one thing to want society to develop on planned paths, it's another when that society rebels, breaks into your home, pisses on your couch and steals your TV.

Modifié par Ramikadyc, 19 mars 2010 - 07:46 .

[screwoffreg]

Ive kept the base, even on my Paragon playthroughs. Who says we ultimately CAN'T have the Council use it anyway? Im sure a Council fleet with the Reaper IFF would overwhelm Cerberus if it came to blows...



Anyway ,its certainly "noble" to destroy it. But like the "noble" ending of Dragon Age (where your PC dies), nobility sometimes doesnt pay off. Its about a War damnit! With the most powerful race in the Galaxy with MILLIONS of years of experience...

[Ramikadyc]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Ramikadyc wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

@Ramikadyc
What about Morinth? Same as Samara?

Either it's the same or she doesn't voice her opinion. I went through the audio files and couldn't find one for her.

edit: Actually she's only got one unique line in the whole Suicide Mission, just went and checked. The rest is recycled from Samara.

What is it?  If you don't mind.

"Love to hear your voice. I'm holding, but I've had about enough fun for today." I believe that's said when you radio back to the team holding the line--that's her response (she says it sarcastically).

[KarmaTheAlligator]

Ramikadyc wrote...

To add to this: note that the Thanix Cannon upgrade for the Normandy--the gun which destroys the Collector Ship during the Suicide Mission dogfight--was based on technology recovered from Sovereign's main gun after the battle of the Citadel. It's one thing to want society to develop on planned paths, it's another when that society rebels, breaks into your home, pisses on your couch and steals your TV.

Great analogy

Yeah, I see your point, it just seems restrictive (that tech is still only one possibility). It might work for short term, but on the long run, we might just turn out to be the next Reapers.

[Mcjon01]

Vaenier wrote...

Not that argument again... They dont want us to have their advanced weapon and shielding technilogies... Making them reliant on the relays is one thing, advancing their weapons to uberness is not what they planned.

Of course, it's questionable as to how much could even be gained from the base in the first place.  The relays, after all, have been sitting around for the entire history of every civilization that currently exists, and none of them understand the technology enough replicate it.  Lord knows they must have tried, they're not all Asari.  Heck, the galaxy's top scientists have trouble understanding Geth technology, and they're nowhere near as advanced as the Reapers.  It'll probably be some help, sure, but it's not going to be a magic bullet.

[Vaenier]

Mcjon01 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Not that argument again... They dont want us to have their advanced weapon and shielding technilogies... Making them reliant on the relays is one thing, advancing their weapons to uberness is not what they planned.

Of course, it's questionable as to how much could even be gained from the base in the first place.  The relays, after all, have been sitting around for the entire history of every civilization that currently exists, and none of them understand the technology enough replicate it.  Lord knows they must have tried, they're not all Asari.  Heck, the galaxy's top scientists have trouble understanding Geth technology, and they're nowhere near as advanced as the Reapers.  It'll probably be some help, sure, but it's not going to be a magic bullet.

Well, you will never know if you blow it up before proper study. If it turns out to be useless, then you can blow it up later.

[Ramikadyc]

Mcjon01 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Not that argument again... They dont want us to have their advanced weapon and shielding technilogies... Making them reliant on the relays is one thing, advancing their weapons to uberness is not what they planned.

Of course, it's questionable as to how much could even be gained from the base in the first place.  The relays, after all, have been sitting around for the entire history of every civilization that currently exists, and none of them understand the technology enough replicate it.  Lord knows they must have tried, they're not all Asari.  Heck, the galaxy's top scientists have trouble understanding Geth technology, and they're nowhere near as advanced as the Reapers.  It'll probably be some help, sure, but it's not going to be a magic bullet.

You bring up a neat point with this. In actuality, the Protheans developed the one-way mass relay on Ilos, and that was done with very limited numbers and resources, while they were hiding underground from the Reapers. Also worth noting, Matriarch Aethyta mentions that she believes asari society needs to focus on more important matters, creating new mass relays from existing technology being one of the examples given. So while it hasn't been replicated by current galactic society, it's surely possible considering the Protheans did it and that members of society consider it a possibility.

[Ramikadyc]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Vaenier wrote...
Well, you will never know if you blow it up before proper study. If it turns out to be useless, then you can blow it up later.

The thought of what Cerberus would use it for other than fighting the Reapers is frightening.  On the other hand, it is arguably a necessary risk to keep because of the threat that exists from the Reapers.  Destroy the Reapers first, then worry about Cerberus and their crazy experiments later perhaps.

This is my thought exactly. Cerberus has to realize that if the Reapers succeed, there will be no more Cerberus, so you have to figure that, if nothing else benign comes from salvaging the base, Cerberus will at least use it to stop the Reapers.

From a metagaming standpoint, I understand the concerns about saving it. But when it comes down to me and my personal canon storyline, I'm all for elevating humanity above the other races--securing human dominance--and while I'm not in favor of killing off the other races, I am in favor of using an iron fist to achieve that. But that's just me!

[eternalnightmare13]

I would take Legion/Mordin's advice but for the simple fact that TIM has proved himself to be unethical IMO.

[KarmaTheAlligator]

Ramikadyc wrote...

Mcjon01 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Not that argument again... They dont want us to have their advanced weapon and shielding technilogies... Making them reliant on the relays is one thing, advancing their weapons to uberness is not what they planned.

Of course, it's questionable as to how much could even be gained from the base in the first place.  The relays, after all, have been sitting around for the entire history of every civilization that currently exists, and none of them understand the technology enough replicate it.  Lord knows they must have tried, they're not all Asari.  Heck, the galaxy's top scientists have trouble understanding Geth technology, and they're nowhere near as advanced as the Reapers.  It'll probably be some help, sure, but it's not going to be a magic bullet.

You bring up a neat point with this. In actuality, the Protheans developed the one-way mass relay on Ilos, and that was done with very limited numbers and resources, while they were hiding underground from the Reapers. Also worth noting, Matriarch Aethyta mentions that she believes asari society needs to focus on more important matters, creating new mass relays from existing technology being one of the examples given. So while it hasn't been replicated by current galactic society, it's surely possible considering the Protheans did it and that members of society consider it a possibility.

That also brings up another neat point: In the millions of years that the Reaper business has been going on, are you telling me this is the first time a species actually got hold of some Reaper tech? The possibility of that is ridiculously small, and yet the Reapers are still very much active, so it does suggest that it's not the way to go.

[Mcjon01]

Ramikadyc wrote...

Mcjon01 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Not that argument again... They dont want us to have their advanced weapon and shielding technilogies... Making them reliant on the relays is one thing, advancing their weapons to uberness is not what they planned.

Of course, it's questionable as to how much could even be gained from the base in the first place.  The relays, after all, have been sitting around for the entire history of every civilization that currently exists, and none of them understand the technology enough replicate it.  Lord knows they must have tried, they're not all Asari.  Heck, the galaxy's top scientists have trouble understanding Geth technology, and they're nowhere near as advanced as the Reapers.  It'll probably be some help, sure, but it's not going to be a magic bullet.

You bring up a neat point with this. In actuality, the Protheans developed the one-way mass relay on Ilos, and that was done with very limited numbers and resources, while they were hiding underground from the Reapers. Also worth noting, Matriarch Aethyta mentions that she believes asari society needs to focus on more important matters, creating new mass relays from existing technology being one of the examples given. So while it hasn't been replicated by current galactic society, it's surely possible considering the Protheans did it and that members of society consider it a possibility.

Well, everyone knows that when you're working underground, the technological complexity of things you can invent is inversely proportional to the number of people you have working on the project multiplied by the quality of parts available.  It's the Tony Stark Principle.

Plus, weren't the Protheans on the brink of unlocking the secrets of Mass Relay technology even before the Reapers invaded?  Vigil seemed to imply they had been working on it for quite a while.

[eternalnightmare13]

Ramikadyc wrote...

Ecael wrote...


Still, I'll destroy the base with my Paragon and save it with my Renegade, and see how each turns out.

Do you have a "canon" playthrough? I have one that I brought from ME1 into ME2, and I'll replay it closer to ME3 and bring it into the sequel. I know others do, but don't you have a "this is my story" game, or is it more of "I just want to experience the stories" games? Just curious.

I'm saving the base in mine.

So what, you only have one character or you make the same choices each time with different characters/class? 

Personally, I have two character making different choices each time.  I consider both 'my story' just alternate variations.  One isn't lesser then the other. 

I know some people will use an earlier save and replay a section to see an alt out come (in ME1 you can actually get Paraseni (spelling) on Noveria killed for example).  and then not save that game so as not to overwrite their 'canon' Shep.  I'd rather see each verision reach its fruition in each game and the triology.

[gloowacz]

Ramikadyc wrote...

You bring up a neat point with this. In actuality, the Protheans developed the one-way mass relay on Ilos, and that was done with very limited numbers and resources, while they were hiding underground from the Reapers. Also worth noting, Matriarch Aethyta mentions that she believes asari society needs to focus on more important matters, creating new mass relays from existing technology being one of the examples given. So while it hasn't been replicated by current galactic society, it's surely possible considering the Protheans did it and that members of society consider it a possibility.

Wrong. Conduit was under development long before Reapers showed up, and was nearly finished. When reapers came <-(gotta love this word ) protheans went into cryo and finished after waking up. Then made this make-keepers-ignore-reaper-signal device and transferred to citadel.

[Ramikadyc]

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...

Ramikadyc wrote...

Mcjon01 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Not that argument again... They dont want us to have their advanced weapon and shielding technilogies... Making them reliant on the relays is one thing, advancing their weapons to uberness is not what they planned.

Of course, it's questionable as to how much could even be gained from the base in the first place.  The relays, after all, have been sitting around for the entire history of every civilization that currently exists, and none of them understand the technology enough replicate it.  Lord knows they must have tried, they're not all Asari.  Heck, the galaxy's top scientists have trouble understanding Geth technology, and they're nowhere near as advanced as the Reapers.  It'll probably be some help, sure, but it's not going to be a magic bullet.

You bring up a neat point with this. In actuality, the Protheans developed the one-way mass relay on Ilos, and that was done with very limited numbers and resources, while they were hiding underground from the Reapers. Also worth noting, Matriarch Aethyta mentions that she believes asari society needs to focus on more important matters, creating new mass relays from existing technology being one of the examples given. So while it hasn't been replicated by current galactic society, it's surely possible considering the Protheans did it and that members of society consider it a possibility.

That also brings up another neat point: In the millions of years that the Reaper business has been going on, are you telling me this is the first time a species actually got hold of some Reaper tech? The possibility of that is ridiculously small, and yet the Reapers are still very much active, so it does suggest that it's not the way to go.

My response wasn't meant to be snide, sorry if it came off that way. I meant that it was a neat point, in the sense that the technology is there, but society doesn't have the necessary motivation to recreate this stuff because they're unaware of the threat to their existence. In regards to your reply--the Reapers and their technology have been around for millions of years, yes, but how many societies were aware that such a thing as Reapers existed at all? If they did know I'm sure the technology would have been replicated on an accelerated scale, but unfortunately
everyone lived their lives oblivious to the fact that they would soon be snuffed out of existence. The Protheans learned of the Reaper threat at the last minute, so imagine what they could have achieved had they lived even a decade longer knowing that their time was potentially coming to an end.

The research project on Ilos was top-secret--it was just one of many, and it was probably the only one that was off the record, therefore providing a sanctuary for the Protheans. I wasn't implying that creating the conduit was done out of necessity, but it was a covert project, and I would venture a guess that if all of the galaxy knew of such an undertaking that greatre results would be achieved in less time.

Going back to Mordin's quotes--technology is developed to compensate for shortcomings. Knowing you're about to be extinct would be a major shortcoming, I would say.

[KarmaTheAlligator]

Ramikadyc wrote...

My response wasn't meant to be snide, sorry if it came off that way. I meant that it was a neat point, in the sense that the technology is there, but society doesn't have the necessary motivation to recreate this stuff because they're unaware of the threat to their existence. In regards to your reply--the Reapers and their technology have been around for millions of years, yes, but how many societies were aware that such a thing as Reapers existed at all? If they did know I'm sure the technology would have been replicated on an accelerated scale, but unfortunately
everyone lived their lives oblivious to the fact that they would soon be snuffed out of existence. The Protheans learned of the Reaper threat at the last minute, so imagine what they could have achieved had they lived even a decade longer knowing that their time was potentially coming to an end.

The research project on Ilos was top-secret--it was just one of many, and it was probably the only one that was off the record, therefore providing a sanctuary for the Protheans. I wasn't implying that creating the conduit was done out of necessity, but it was a covert project, and I would venture a guess that if all of the galaxy knew of such an undertaking that greatre results would be achieved in less time.

Going back to Mordin's quotes--technology is developed to compensate for shortcomings. Knowing you're about to be extinct would be a major shortcoming, I would say.

That's the thing, isn't it? We don't really know what the hell happened to all those other species before the Protheans. Make it difficult to argue one way or another... But I still think the chances of the Protheans -and therefore us- being the only ones who ever did anything is very small.

[MyChemicalBromance]

I had that dialogue when I brought Garrus and Tali.

[Relshar]

Reaper tech means indoctrination. If TIM gets his hands on it you know he is going to indoctrinate human colonies to build his own reaper ship.

Look at Cerberus past record in experiments.

[Errol Dnamyx]

The Illusive Man knows what has to be done!