128 réponses à ce sujet

[Vegielamb]

Nightwriter wrote...

Vegielamb wrote...

Oh boy, so this is how they're dividing up the party for M3.

Huh?

Blowing up the base gets you the party members who agree with that choice for M3. Not blowing up the base gets you the party members who agree with that choice. The members who disagree leave and pull a Kaiden/Ashley/Wrex with you.

[Nightwriter]

Vegielamb wrote...

Blowing up the base gets you the party members who agree with that choice for M3. Not blowing up the base gets you the party members who agree with that choice. The members who disagree leave and pull a Kaiden/Ashley/Wrex with you.

Hmm. That is... very interesting.

[Onyx Jaguar]

So basically if I keep the base I keep Zaeed, Grunt, Mordin and Garrus. If I blow it up I keep Miranda, Jack, Jacob and Thane.



****

[Azint]

Vegielamb wrote...

Blowing up the base gets you the party members who agree with that choice for M3. Not blowing up the base gets you the party members who agree with that choice. The members who disagree leave and pull a Kaiden/Ashley/Wrex with you.

That is a terrible idea.

[Barquiel]

Well, all squadmates think it was a good idea to destroy the base (back on the ship). Renegades will be very lonely.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Yes Mass Effect 3 will be really fun with no squadmates.

Anyway, I took Jack and Mordin with me to the climax. Jack only actually says anything on the subject If I seem to favor keeping the base before making the actual decision. Mordin likewise only argues for keeping the base if I lean towards destroying it in the conversation with The Illusive Man before the big decision dialogue.

On the Normandy I think Garrus is the only one who appers that he maintains any sort of consitency regarding his position from the base mission. At least if you keep the base. He seems to be hopeful that Cerberus can find some useful technology even if he is afraid of the possible consequences of giving the Illusive Man such a powerful repository of knowledge.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 04 mai 2010 - 11:41 .

[Vegielamb]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Anyway, I took Jack and Mordin with me to the climax. Jack only actually says anything on the subject If I seem to favor keeping the base before making the actual decision. Mordin likewise only argues for keeping the base if I lean towards destroying it in the conversation with The Illusive Man before the big decision dialogue.

On the Normandy I think Garrus is the only one who appers that he maintains any sort of consitency regarding his position from the base mission. At least if you keep the base. He seems to be hopeful that Cerberus can find some useful technology even if he is afraid of the possible consequences of giving the Illusive Man such a powerful repository of knowledge.

I wonder if the choices you made during loyalty missions affects opinions? Did you save the genophage data? Most of the quests involve some sort of renegade/paragon dilemma.

[Vegielamb]

Barquiel wrote...

Well, all squadmates think it was a good idea to destroy the base (back on the ship). Renegades will be very lonely.

Continuity? Bah, since when do they keep it straight? Just look at the pot holes in M2 vs M1.

I suspect the dividing line, if they choose to do this, is going to be based on those suggestions made in the heat of the event rather than the rational consideration later.

[CommanderTravis]

I like what thane samara and jack say. Stooping to your enemies level means you've lost regardless. and giving TIM control of that base doesn't seem at all a good idea. I wouldn't be surprised if TIM abducted more humans to build another reaper and terrorize the galaxy.

[Nightwriter]

Shandepared wrote...

Friends are for bleeding-heart paragons!

The cry of a lonely man...

[askanec]

Options are worth more alive than dead. If the collector base is destroyed, it's gone forever and whatever scrap left is useless to anyone. If the base is kept, the information contained inside can be used for the benefit of mankind and alien races, or it can be mothballed.



Even technology meant only to kill thousands or even millions of our own species, such as the gun or the nuclear warhead, is not inherently evil. You can't tie morals into technology. When the Axis powers conducted horrific human experiments during World War 2, the Allied nations did not discard what the experiments discovered after the war. Medical knowledge was advanced to the benefit of mankind.



There are concerns Cerebus will keep the technology to themselves. Maybe they would, but I trust the Illusive Man is smart enough to realize the Reapers is too big a problem for Cerebus or even humanity to handle alone. When survival vs extinction is at stake, it's no time to be playing petty politics. Of course, I fully expect Cerebus to maneuver themselves into the most advantageous position during the chaos, but that'll be a problem for the future.

[jwalker]

Vaenier wrote...

Legion: Shepard-Commander, this facility is data. It has no inherent ethical value. Destroying it will not return those lost. Keeping it may save others.

His response sums it up pretty nicely. No need to cloud the debate with emotions.

Didn't he say something about not using technology is not your own ?
It's a Reaper strategy. We learned that from ME1. And wasn't that the reason why the "true geth" and the heretics divided in the first place ? The heretics accepted reaper technology, geth didn't.

But now, on the collector base....

[Sajuro]

Vaenier wrote...

IF the base was the only way to defeat the Reapers, would you still blow it up because it is evil? [This is a hypothetical situation, don't say you will find another way.]

Sorry, but it's called taking the third option for a reason.
http://tvtropes.org/...akeAThirdOption
And yes, I would still blow it up. I may not defeat them but I'd find a way to weaken them enough so the next cycle could defeat them.

[jwalker]

I keep the base.
Not because it's a renegade run. Most of my runs are "paragon", the blue bar grows faster than the red one, makes things easier
I really think it's the best choice.
The inmediate and worst threat are the reapers. if there's a chance that base can help, i take it.
If after the reapers are gone, TIM wants to build his own empire, it'll be dealt with.

Honour, moral, ethics. It doesn't mean anything if you're extinct.
Like Jack says on the collector ship, "dead is dead, there's no such thing as a good way to go"

Finally, if after the reapers are defeated there's a Cerberus dictatorship across the entire galaxy, well ... dictators fall, they always do.

And no, i don't think that TIM is recycling Saren's idea from ME1. That would be TOO lame...

[enormousmoonboots]

The only thing Cerberus ever actually succeeded at was resurrecting Shepard, no way I'd trust them with Reaper tech (well, more Reaper tech, ever stop and think that maybe if you hadn't stolen half of Sovereign the Council would have had enough evidence to acknowledge them, TIM?). It doesn't count as saving the galaxy if there's no galaxy worth coming back to.

[jwalker]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

 It doesn't count as saving the galaxy if there's no galaxy worth coming back to.

So, the chance of absolute and complete annihilation  is best than the chance of some sort of Cerberus dictatorship ?

That's thoughtful. Thanks for including us all.

Here's another option.

If the galaxy falls under TIM's ruling, all those who are too ethical, all those who reek self-righteousness, can commit mass suicide. If suicide can't be done because of some sort set of principles or beliefs, i'm pretty sure TIM can arrange something. And that'll prove his evilness in the process . It's a win-win.

Everybody else will have the chance of keep fighting.

[STG]

Giving a terrorist organization with plans to build super soldiers a base with possible reaper tech? Doesn't sound stupid at all...

[enormousmoonboots]

jwalker wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

 It doesn't count as saving the galaxy if there's no galaxy worth coming back to.

So, the chance of absolute and complete annihilation  is best than the chance of some sort of Cerberus dictatorship ?

That's thoughtful. Thanks for including us all.

Here's another option.

If the galaxy falls under TIM's ruling, all those who are too ethical, all those who reek self-righteousness, can commit mass suicide. If suicide can't be done because of some sort set of principles or beliefs, i'm pretty sure TIM can arrange something. And that'll prove his evilness in the process . It's a win-win.

Everybody else will have the chance of keep fighting.

It's a vidya gaem, I can afford to be idealistic :V And in the idealistic game that I'm playing, I can honestly say that I'd prefer a Game Over to a human-run galaxy. Play your game the way you want to play it, and I'll play mine the way I want to play it. No need to get mad at me, brosef.

[jwalker]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

It's a vidya gaem, I can afford to be idealistic :V And in the idealistic game that I'm playing, I can honestly say that I'd prefer a Game Over to a human-run galaxy. Play your game the way you want to play it, and I'll play mine the way I want to play it. No need to get mad at me, brosef.

Holy crap!
It did sound bad. I wasn't mad at you, just being passionate about it. Sorry

[Vegielamb]

jwalker wrote...

And no, i don't think that TIM is recycling Saren's idea from ME1. That would be TOO lame...

TIM may already be indoctrinated just enough to be a good tool. The whole eye thing is way to Saren-esque to trust.

[freestylez]

Vaenier wrote...

Its funny how Bioware screwed up their duologue. They could not even keep their personalities consistent for 10 whole minutes...

Agreed. The inconsistency is quite baffling and I'm not going to try to rationalize it. Legion and Mordin's response are the completely opposite.

Modifié par freestylez, 05 mai 2010 - 04:58 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Vegielamb wrote...

jwalker wrote...

And no, i don't think that TIM is recycling Saren's idea from ME1. That would be TOO lame...

TIM may already be indoctrinated just enough to be a good tool. The whole eye thing is way to Saren-esque to trust.

Or, you know, Renegade Shepard.

TIM is the one person actively leading a major group against the Reapers and thwarting their machinations. When the easiest path to supporting the Reapers would be to NOT act, TIM does. No one made him revive Shepard, engineeer a double-bluff against the Collector trap, find the Derilect Reaper and Reaper IFF, build the Normandy to go to the Collector Base, help assemble the team to take that base, and then offer the suggestion to keep the tech for use against the Reapers. The Reapers wanted none of it, and could have had it all if he had just stood aside or obfusicated and blocked Shepard.

[Sajuro]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Vegielamb wrote...

jwalker wrote...

And no, i don't think that TIM is recycling Saren's idea from ME1. That would be TOO lame...

TIM may already be indoctrinated just enough to be a good tool. The whole eye thing is way to Saren-esque to trust.

Or, you know, Renegade Shepard.

TIM is the one person actively leading a major group against the Reapers and thwarting their machinations. When the easiest path to supporting the Reapers would be to NOT act, TIM does. No one made him revive Shepard, engineeer a double-bluff against the Collector trap, find the Derilect Reaper and Reaper IFF, build the Normandy to go to the Collector Base, help assemble the team to take that base, and then offer the suggestion to keep the tech for use against the Reapers. The Reapers wanted none of it, and could have had it all if he had just stood aside or obfusicated and blocked Shepard.

Maybe the Reaper controlling TIM could just be wanting to screw Harbinger. Or it could be an overall Reaper gambit to divide and conquer the races

[Dean_the_Young]

Yes, let's divide and conquer the galaxy by giving them the equivalent of the atom bomb right before we invade. That's a brilliant way to make our invasion go easier!

More seriously, giving a secret organization super high-tech stuff doesn't split the galaxy if the organization in question is, well, secret. If they have any brains, the other races will work with the Alliance against the Reapers regardless. If they refuse to, they aren't smart enough to have been credible allies in the first place.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 06 mai 2010 - 12:28 .