46 réponses à ce sujet

[SDNcN]

The Grey Warden Tresurer mentions that the First, who I am assuming is the leader of the Grey Wardens in their entirety, is interested in Amaranthine because it sets a precedent for Grey Wardens ruling and provides a way for remaining relvent post-blight.

Riordan says that in the Anderfels the Grey Wardens have a lot of power there due to weak leadership from the king and a number of Wardens like it that way.

What if in another DA game a catastophe occured (like a high dragon rampage) and Grey Wardens arrive to restore order, only to later refuse to cede power back to the local leadership? What if the people rather have Grey Wardens rule?

What if future Grey Wardens plot to overthrow a monarchy and use Blood magic to force others help them like Sophia Dryden did.

The Grey Wardens could suddenly turn into pretty compelling anagonists with a shift of perspective.

Anyone see some serious potential in this for future DA games?

[JamieCOTC]

That could be an interesting turn of events.  I would see it becoming more of a war between Grey Warden factions, though I would not wish to play such a game w/out an imported character.  Would be interesting, but I doubt that is where they are heading.  Awakening has many good qualities, but its a bit too generic  and I fear that is the direction everything is heading.  

[MEUTRIERE]

I hope so.  And I hope my PC can be the dictator. 

[Nobody Important]

This could be very very very interesting. I would love it if the grey wardens were trying to take over everything and trying to form an empire or something. Also they are heavily connected to the royal court in Orlais.

Modifié par Nobody Important, 19 mars 2010 - 09:27 .

[Thor Rand Al]

In Ferelden the Grey Warden's kinda have taken over. If you made Alistair King technically he still is a Grey Warden. I guess he could be considered Ferelden's Grey Warden King lol. 


Edit:  I actually kinda like the ring to that.  Thedas's first Grey Warden King and His Grey Warden Queen (well I did marry him lol.)

Modifié par Thor Rand Al, 19 mars 2010 - 09:36 .

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

My PC coudn't care less. Unless of course, the ruling Grey Wardens will be a threat to anyone she cares about. Then, Warden Commander or not, she'll go and kick their asses.

Besides, she never liked Grey Wardens much anyway, after she learned of their recruitment techniques.

[SDNcN]

Nobody Important wrote...

This could be very very very interesting. I would love it if the grey wardens were trying to take over everything and trying to form an empire or something. Also they are heavily connected to the royal court in Orlais.

I'd think it would be more like them starting to flex their muscles by using their status as legendary heroes to their advantage in order to gain influence in the courts and attempt to establish more situations like Amaranthine where they are a legitimate politcal power in countries other than Anderfels.

[Daerog]

Once the last of the darkspawn and Archdemons are dead, then the Grey Wardens need to be wiped out to remove the blight entirely.

The Grey Wardens pretty much rule in the Anderfels because of that nation's weak government and are only showing good governance in Amaranthine to show relevance between Blights, once the blight is gone, the Grey Wardens should disappear as well. However, Grey Wardens doing what they wish is nothing new, so such a plot would be interesting.

[nos_astra]

SDNcN wrote...
What if future Grey Wardens plot to overthrow a monarchy and use Blood magic to force others help them like Sophia Dryden did.

Um, doesn't exactly this happen in Origins already? Especially as a Cousland you can end up with a few impressive titles and a lot of political influence: Prince/Princess-consort, Teyrn/Teyrna of Gwaren, Arl/Arlessa of Amarathine, Chancellor (+ your husband/wife is the King/Queen and your brother Teyrn of Highever)

Ferelden is yours.

[SDNcN]

klarabella wrote...

SDNcN wrote...
What if future Grey Wardens plot to overthrow a monarchy and use Blood magic to force others help them like Sophia Dryden did.

Um, doesn't exactly this happen in Origins already? Especially as a Cousland you can end up with a few impressive titles and a lot of political influence: Prince/Princess-consort, Teyrn/Teyrna of Gwaren, Arl/Arlessa of Amarathine, Chancellor (+ your husband/wife is the King/Queen and your brother Teyrn of Highever)

Ferelden is yours.

There was a Blight and the reason to overthrow Anora and Loghain in Origins was to unite the land against it.

I am refering to the Grey Wardens oversteping their place and interfering in politics that has nothing to do with fighting Darkspawn.

I think Awakening establishes that if you accept becoming the consort, you stay with the Wardens for a bit, but eventually leave to join the court. You aren't actively apart of the Wardens when you have those titles save for Arl as the Warden Commander.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I think a Grey Warden civil war, between "expansionists" and "conservatives" could be a very interesting plot in an expansion or sequel. And the PC could pick a team.

[odiedragon]

Honestly I'm kind of surprised that the First Warden likes this idea, rather than thinking it a bad prescient. That being said, they also say that Celine is pissed that the Orlesian Wardens were turned back from Ferelden. Continuing KoP's Grey Warden civil war idea, I could very much see Orlais using a Grey Warden King/ruling pair as a flimsy excuse to start up the war again. The Orlesian Wardens ally with the Empire, because they believe that Alistair/Alistair-Cousland/Cousland should be brought down and Orlais supports their goals... and will then, of course, plan in claiming Ferelden again after the Warden Ruler(s) are brought down. Meanwhile, the First Warden and the Wardens from the Anderfells support Ferelden and send troops to support keeping him/them on the throne. A giant hypocritical cluster-thing.

[elearon1]

I like the idea ... so long as I can import my Warden as part of the story - having to decide whether she wants to support the move for power or oppose it - I can see some interesting and very difficult moral decisions here for the pc.



Really, that is what I want to see more of in DA, real - difficult - moral decisions with consequence. So far only Awakenings seemed to have one of note and even then you don't get to see the repercussions during the game ... I'd love to see a game where, halfway through, your decision causes the story to deviate in one of two significant directions. If the game were 50 bucks and only 40 hours with both options played I would buy it, simply for the sensation of having a very real impact upon the game.

[LadyDamodred]

As I played through Awakenings, I realized that if my PC, and those that follow her, recruit people and act the same way she does, the Grey Wardens of Ferelden are gonna be a little special. We seem rather...independent. I mean, even though Alistair and I are both Grey Wardens, if an order ever came through that required us to do something we very much disagreed with or threatened the security of Ferelden, I'm pretty sure we would ignore it. I don't know about anyone else, but this is how I would see.



I would be very much interested in a game that explores factions within the GW (along with some standard world-ending catastrophe), or that exploits a situation like I listed above.

[Sarah1281]

Once the last of the darkspawn and Archdemons are dead, then the Grey Wardens need to be wiped out to remove the blight entirely.

Wipe them out? As in kill them? That's seems a little drastic. Stop creating more I definitely agree with but I doubt anyone would say otherwise as there is no point in the GWs if no darkspawn exist.

Honestly I'm kind of surprised that the First Warden likes this idea, rather than thinking it a bad prescient.

Really? When Riordan explained about the Wardens at the headquarters he explained tha they were a major political power there and loved it. That's part of that country's GW culture and as the First Warden is presumably from there, it makes sense how he or she would endorse it and seek to expand their power politically.

[Venatio]

I think the Grey Wardens are just trying to improve their power base which in turns gives them greater mobility in dealing with the Darkspawn. Like the Jedi in Star Wars they need resources. Training Padawans in the way of the Force doesnt come free, or those fancy lightsaber components, and those maintenance driods dont fix themselves (well some of them do, but you get the point).

The Grey Wardens where once one of the most powerful organizations in all of Thedas, perhaps even eclipsing the Templars. With the decline of the Darkspawn on the surface for 400 years I think they see a way to return to their former glory.

Modifié par Venatio, 20 mars 2010 - 01:51 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

I am going to expand on the idea. I really like it.

So the epilogue in Awakening (mine at least) said that the savior of Ferelden one day disapeared. So I am thinking that the First Warden had him kidnapped, as he was not sure where he would side. He would try to convince him of his master plan.

The First Warden's plan is linked to Celene I. Celene had planned to marry Cailan and make him Emperor of Orlais. The First Warden knows that Cailan is fascinated by the Wardens, so it would be very easy for him to make Cailan slowly but surely give Ferelden to the Wardens. The arrangement between Celene and the First Warden would be this. Celene would allow the Wardens to control Ferelden and create their own semi-indepedent kingdom, within an Orlesian Empire. In return, the Wardens would become Orlais' elite legions, which could aid it in expanding in Tevinter.

Of course, this would be a ruse from the First Warden. He would attempt to take out both Celene and Cailan, and claim both Orlais and Ferelden for the Order. But his plan was compromised during the fifth blight. But he also saw an opportunity. And that's Amaranthine. He either has the savior of Ferelden become Arl, or senf an Oresian Warden that comes from the Imeprial court and is obviously linked to Celene. If Loghain is alive, then he has him leave for Orlais, as he realises that he is a threat (and the one who jeapordised his plan in the first place). He would be uncertain about the Orlesian or Fereldan Commander and decide to have him / her tested. 

After the events of Awakening, the PC is kidnapped by the First Warden's followers, in an attempt to convince him / her of their vision. However, the PC is freed from a bunch of Warden resistance fighters,who tell the PC that a secretive Warden civil war had begun in the Anderfels. The First Warden's plan was making conservative Wardens anxious, and not before long, they started to oppose him. But it had yet errupted into full scale civil war.

This civil war makes the First warden more desperate, so he resorts to the unthinkable. He makes a deal with an indepedent darkspawn warlord (the Architect doesn't need to live or die for this. This warlord could be an experiment of the Architect before his demise). The First Warden asks this darkspawn to lead a full scale invasion of Ferelden. In exchange, the First Warden would provide him with a steady supply of females from every race, every year, in addition to some lands in the south of Ferelden. The First Warden would also send agents to weaken Ferelden as much as possible, by kidnapping the savior of Ferelden for one. They would also attempt to assassinate the king / queen. And since there is no heir to the throne, the First Warden will have the excuse he needs to make the Wardens "temporarily" rule over Ferelden while the crisis had abaited.

Celene also agrees with the plan and would dedicate Orlesian legions to help the Wardens settle in. she thinks that Ferelden would be back under Orlais' control, but with the blanket of the Wardens and the threat of the darkspawn to justify it. Of course the PC saves the king / queen from assassination. Celene wanted to abort the plan, but the First Warden pressured her into action. The plan would proceed nonetheless.And now the civil war was truly started. The Wardens against the First Warden in the Anderfels were almost compeltely annihilated, but many of them fled to Ferelden in order to fight the "expansionists" there. If Loghain is still alive, then he flees Orlais and returns to fight for his beloved Ferelden.
  
During the game, the PC could be given the choice to either join the "expansionists" or remain fighting for the conservatives. The First Warden claims  that the Wardens have sacrificed everything and risk their lives everyday for a world that is too quick to forget their sacrifice. He believes that the Wardens must rule the land in order to protect it better. He argues that the last 5 blights caused millions of deaths precisely because the land was divided between petty kingdoms and lords that would kill each other oblivious to how many of their own people were slaughtered. But if Thedas was united under the Wardens. Then they can face any blight and perhaps even preempt and aid the dwarves underground. 
The PC can either side with or against him.

Unknowingly to all of them, the darkspawn warlord was in fact controlled by the Archdemon, Razikale, the Dragon of Mystery, who had used the ressources the First Warden provided to his puppet to guide the darkspawn into gfinding his body.  The end of the game would be the Archdemon awakening, signaling the beginning of the 6th blight.

Of course it's still too simple. But in general, I think this idea would be really cool.
I don't know if the old Gods can plan like this before being tainted. I just think his title, the dragon of mystery, sounds like a manipulative sort. 
And I am not sure if this would fit an expansion or a sequel. Maybe an expansion. and the sequel would be the 6th blight in Orlais.  

[Venatio]

... wow.



My only concern with that "theory" is that since Wardens dont live long I dont think that the First Warden would have that long to get ambitious enough to do something like that.

[LadyDamodred]

I like it. You should start writing fanfic, KoP.

I really like the idea of an antagonistic First Warden (and so it appears in some of my writting, hehe). I think the Grey Wardens in Weisshaupt are thrilled with what happened in Ferelden, especially if you have a GW king and queen; you have defacto GW rulers over an entire nation. Throw in the fact that you now have an arling directly under your control and the people look to GW for leadership, and you can see the benefits.

As time goes by, however, I would think the First Warden would be less than enamored of the situation. Yes, it is a great example of how GW can and should rule (from his perspective), but he has very little control over it. He can send orders to the GWC in Amaranthine, but are they really gonna risk the ire of the monarch(s), especially in Ferelden? And if he attempts to order the king and queen around? Well, I'm sure you can see exactly how that would go over. Kidnapping the PC would be the way to go, since they are the biggest threat.

I realize this is geared more to having a HNF and Alistair ruling, but imo it fits best with a scenario like this. There's also a bit of personal preference. *coughs*

With KoP's permission, I might lift a couple ideas to use in one of my stories.

@Venacio:
I personally think that the leadership in Weisshaupt is fairly clannish.  They probably all think/act/feel the same.  There will be some differences, but I can easily see each new First Warden coming from within the same circle of people who share the same ideas and goals.

Modifié par LadyDamodred, 20 mars 2010 - 02:11 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ LadyDamodred. Permission given

And yea there was some personal preference in what I wrote as well. Vis a vis Loghain mostly.

[Sarah1281]

Wouldn't it be something if Loghain was right all along?

[LadyDamodred]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ LadyDamodred. Permission given
And yea there was some personal preference in what I wrote as well. Vis a vis Loghain mostly.

Hooray!  Thank you very much.  I'm currently working on one right now, but it was started before I played Awakenings and I'm trying to figure out if I should include what happened.  It complicates things.  I don't want to ignore it, but it might require a certain amount of careful working around the events.  Meh.  But, anyways, I like the idea of the First Wardens plot involving some sort of grand conspiracy.  We'll see how well I can work that in.

*apologizes for derailing the thread a bit*

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ LadyDamodred. Be sure to tell me when you are finished! Or if you need help

@ Sarah. I admit, I have an ulterior motive to make Loghain partially right lol

[Raiil]

This is actually a story idea I've been juggling for a while, based on my epilogue in the story. My f!Amell ran off with non-King Alistair and disappears.





I agree that the Ferelden Wardens seem to be a very independent lot. For the first two- the PC and Alistair- their only objective is to save the world. Which is impressive, of course, but domination doesn't seem to be an option. (Individual results may vary, of course), I felt that the PC left because of the way the Wardens were trying to insinuate themselves politically; when it's mentioned that they're the only Grey Warden in Ferelden, I ~imagined~ that Alistair had been recalled to Weisshaupt. Given what Riordan said about the Anderfel Wardens, someone like Alistair wouldn't have approved of the way they run things. They, as well as the party members you recruit in Awakenings, have a different mindset- saving Ferelden. Ruling as Wardens doesn't seem to fit as well into that- it's something they'd do to protect Ferelden. They'd rule in their own right, maybe.





I imagine the First Warden insinuating themselves with the Chantry, and Orlais (where I believe the head of the Chantry resides) in order to grab more power. After all, you harboured an apostate mage, possibly twice if you keep Anders with you, something the Chantry doesn't agree with. And who is to say that Celene doesn't have her eye on Ferelden instead?





I should go write this all down... hn.

[SDNcN]

Venatio wrote...

... wow.

My only concern with that "theory" is that since Wardens dont live long I dont think that the First Warden would have that long to get ambitious enough to do something like that.

Avernus in Warden's Keep was able to survive for centuries by using Blood magic despite being a Grey Warden.