1316 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

Perhaps for Genevieve and Bregan, but not for Utha, who was of sound mind and body.

I question the 'of sound mind'-ness of any of the Silent Sisters.

[Godak]

GrammarCub wrote...

So why go through another boss battle for people who don't even like or respect you?

I highly doubt that your character ever thought the words "boss battle".

[tmelange]

GrammarCub wrote...

My first playthrough, I used an Orlesian Warden. I figured that character would spare the Architect for any number of reasons -- he's a pragmatist instead of a hardliner, and was trying to do the greatest good for the greatest number. He also doesn't really give a **** about Ferelden -- the locals have been downright hostile even though he tried to protect them. So why go through another boss battle for people who don't even like or respect you? Serves 'em right if they get eaten by genlocks, the conspiratorial xenophobes.

My current playthrough is with my imported character, who has taken the extreme high road throughout the game. I'm just about to meet the Architect again ... and I'm not so sure he'll survive. All darkspawn must be eradicated, after all ...

Does your Orlesian warden care that the Architect slaughtered the whole crew of Orlesian wardens that were there before you? That he used them for experiments, and drained them of their blood? He doesn't have to care about Ferelden to care about his brothers-in-arms, to seek justice and vengence on behalf of his countrymen who died in that godforsaken mud-pit of a land, far from the beautiful heights of Orlais. Also, I don't think any major change to the habits of the darkspawn would remain limited to Ferelden for long.

[Sarah1281]

Also, I don't think any major change to the habits of the darkspawn would remain limited to Ferelden for long.

Yes, in the epilogue Ferelden doesn't seem to care WHAT you did with the Architect while the other Wardens freak out. Which leads me to wonder who told them about the Architect and your deal with him and why. At least in Origins everyone has the sense no to mention Morrigan's demon-baby to them...

[elearon1]

>>Sociopaths, based on the very vague definitions, simply do not care about the already established norms. That doesn't mean they cannot, in and of themselves, come up with their own ethical understanding (no m,atter how perverse it is).<<



Let us not get on the topic of Sociopaths. So many people get the use of the term wrong it is frustrating. And, no, sociopaths aren't just people who disagree with the established norms - there is much more - or in some ways much less - to it than that. Sociopaths do not have a moral compass, they don't simply redefine morals for their own interests, they ignore them outright. (save when using their detached and purely intellectual grasp of such things to manipulate others)



That said, darkspawn are not sociopaths - they're asocial, lacking in understanding of social skills on a very basic level. (the ability to scream commands at your cannon fodder is not proof of social skill)



But that is all really beside the point. As a student of psychology you want to know if the Architect can be trusted? The answer is no, his personality demonstrates that he will do whatever it takes to achieve his goals and while he may try to sound pleasant and nonthreatening, the truth is he cares about no one who stands in his way. So if he thought it in the best interest of his plans to break deals and wage war on humanity again, he would do so without a second thought.

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Perhaps for Genevieve and Bregan, but not for Utha, who was of sound mind and body.

I question the 'of sound mind'-ness of any of the Silent Sisters.

You got me there. 

[Stoomkal]

I think this is the *best* dilemma of DA...

I really dislike the idea of mindless bad guys, Tolkien took prejudice and racism to a whole new level.

A fun fact is that the German government of the time - board won't let me spell it - actually asked to publish his first book for their regime. It had the "perfect" themes of eugenics and white supremacy. He told them to **** off...

Now, I actually thought the Darkspawn were done rather well for non-subjective evil types.

Awakening blows the lid off this and asks you to be either a negotiator, or to enact a genocidal campaign on what is now simply another race with subjective thoughts and emotions.

Now *we* are the - board won't let me spell it - regime!

Add to this, I have close friends with "tainted blood". They freak out badly when they bleed and scream "Don't get it on you!". It is tragic and *human* and makes us all cry...

However, they typically do not want to capture women and spew in their mouth, so I am still abit on the anti-DS side!!

My only thought is this... my *character* would be completely trapped: His *child* is an old god...

Would he not want to side with the Architect to protect his child with Morrigan? Or would he want him dead to prevent the secret from getting out if he pursued the old gods.

Also, kinda difficult to write out an interesting character in one small and glitchy expansion. A waste of potential, but a great moral dilemma.

Still trippin, really...

[Axekix]

Stoomkal wrote...

My only thought is this... my *character* would be completely trapped: His *child* is an old god...

Would he not want to side with the Architect to protect his child with Morrigan? Or would he want him dead to prevent the secret from getting out if he pursued the old gods.

This is a very interesting point... at the same time, it could also be possible that the Architect would see the child as a threat to his goal of freeing his people, since it would be the most "vulnerable" of the remaining gods to the corruption (ie the Darkspawn don't have to tunnel for centuries to find it).  In that case sparring him might not be prudent.

Modifié par Axekix, 24 mars 2010 - 06:33 .

[Stoomkal]

Axekix wrote...

Stoomkal wrote...

My only thought is this... my *character* would be completely trapped: His *child* is an old god...

Would he not want to side with the Architect to protect his child with Morrigan? Or would he want him dead to prevent the secret from getting out if he pursued the old gods.

This is a very interesting point... at the same time, it could also be possible that the Architect would see the child as a threat to his goal of freeing his people, since it would be the most "vulnerable" of the remaining gods to the corruption (ie the Darkspawn don't have to tunnel for centuries to find it).  In that case sparring him might not be prudent.

...

Zig-Zactly!!

My character may disagree with the genocide of an emerging species - but he also would want to protect his own child...

Hmm...

[Efesell]

It's kind of a really out there assumption that the Architect would even know about the child.

[Stoomkal]

Why would he not? He is a *specialist* in archdemon and old god lore...



Besides, don't villains always find out your dark secrets and blackmail you with them?



He would know you *should* be dead... which is actually the one greatest, gaping plot hole in the game, anyway.



Apparently, the First Warden does not care about these things. I would have liked one freaking dialogue where I could have said Riordan did it.



Instead, a hand pass... yay.

[Efesell]

Unless he was peaking through your bedchambers that night there isn't much reason for him to know about it.

[Sarah1281]

The First Warden was apparently harrassing Alistair and/or Loghain about it by the time ofthe coronation but they weren't about to explain anything. Maybe they've given up the 'ask directly' route.

[Efesell]

I think it's more than a little debatable how much of an Old God the kid will be anyway for that matter.

[Stoomkal]

Except for a thing called plot development...



Plus... he would know from Darkspawn or even from rumours that Riordan died before the Archdemon did - so you or Alistair/Loghain would have *had* to do it... but you are all alive.



Or... the fact that some of your party knew about it...



Or... the fact that he has been researching Archdemon weaknesses for a long time would have given him reason to observe you during DA.



Lots of reasons, really.

[Stoomkal]

Efesell wrote...

I think it's more than a little debatable how much of an Old God the kid will be anyway for that matter.

...

Well... according to the game, not really debatable at all... 

[Efesell]

Stoomkal wrote...

Except for a thing called plot development...

Plus... he would know from Darkspawn or even from rumours that Riordan died before the Archdemon did - so you or Alistair/Loghain would have *had* to do it... but you are all alive.

Or... the fact that some of your party knew about it...

Or... the fact that he has been researching Archdemon weaknesses for a long time would have given him reason to observe you during DA.

Lots of reasons, really.

How would the Darkspawn know you made demon babies with Morrigan exactly? Their link to that Old God was cut just as clear as any other.

The party knew it? How? I didn't tell them. Hell the party wasn't even informed that an ultimate sacrifice had to be made.

Modifié par Efesell, 24 mars 2010 - 07:13 .

[Efesell]

Stoomkal wrote...

Efesell wrote...

I think it's more than a little debatable how much of an Old God the kid will be anyway for that matter.

...

Well... according to the game, not really debatable at all... 

The outcome is left intentionally vague so you can't really say either way for sure.

[Stoomkal]

Because Alistair knows... he said so at the end of the game... he mentions Morrigan's ritual.



You know that, right?

[Efesell]

Actually it's possible for Alistair to NOT know and ask you what the hell happened.

[Stoomkal]

Lol...



Except before the Final Battle he says that Morrigan's Ritual may not work...



Just go play the game...

[Efesell]

Which is actually bugged dialogue if that occurs, and confirmed as such.

During the Coronation he will question you about it.

[Sarah1281]

Maybe you tell him between the ritual and heading into the city and he hits his head in the fight and has no idea why neither of you are dead. Of course, it also doesn't explain why a romanced Alistair on the scene wouldn't try to 'save' you but maybe it's because of the concussion.

Ditto for Loghain because he never seems to know what's going on.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 24 mars 2010 - 07:25 .

[Efesell]

Well Loghain is getting on in years.

So with him we just nod and move on with the conversation, especially if its about Orlesians.

[LD50]

Stoomkal wrote...

I think this is the *best* dilemma of DA...

I really dislike the idea of mindless bad guys, Tolkien took prejudice and racism to a whole new level.

A fun fact is that the German government of the time - board won't let me spell it - actually asked to publish his first book for their regime. It had the "perfect" themes of eugenics and white supremacy. He told them to **** off...

Just for the record, thats not correct. Lord only knows why I ever read a Tolkien biography but what in fact happened is that he refused that have a german version of the hobbit published in germany by a german publisher because he found their personal politics distasteful. Anyway, that is besides the point.

This is an interesting discussion and I would just like to interject something in there. It may be because its 3am here and I'm having trouble concentrating but I haven't seen anyone mention the Architect's plan from The Calling.

(Spoiler? I guess?)

Obviously, the Warden from the game would not be aware of this but, as I recall, the Architect's plan was, more or less, to infect everyone in the world with the taint. Inspired by the wardens' version of the taint, he figured he could infect the entire world and thereby create peace since everyone left would be, in effect, part darkspawn. Sort of like a worldwide scale joining ritual. Which, of course, would kill off the vast majority of the non-darkspawn population of the  world since so few people actually survive the joining.

I'm genuinely curious as to how the folks posting think that this can be reconciled as a positive, ethical thing.