1316 réponses à ce sujet

[Efesell]

His first plan certainly had some.. kinks.. that needed working out. It seems like he's done so at least.

[Sarah1281]

It's been mentioned but since his plans seem to have changed by Awakening and the Warden has no way of knowing about what happened it really can't have too much of an impact on whether or not the Warden lets him live.

[LD50]

Sarah1281 wrote...

It's been mentioned but since his plans seem to have changed by Awakening and the Warden has no way of knowing about what happened it really can't have too much of an impact on whether or not the Warden lets him live.

Granted, the Warden has no way of knowing any of this. So, outside of a metagame discussion, it really could not have an impact on the choice.

But!

Is there anything at all that can lead us to believe that the Architect has changed his overall plan? It seems obvious that making darkspawn sentient doesnt make them always make them more sedate. The Mother and her brood certainly aren't all that peaceful. What's more, they seem to pretty vastly outnumber the Architect's posse.

Am I the only one that therefore finds it hard to believe that a supposedly brilliant mind like the Architect thinks that if he makes all the darkspawn self-aware, peace will spontaneously break out?

[Efesell]

Maybe not, but he probably grasps that the alternative pretty much carries a zero chance as opposed to a slim one.

[krylo]

LD50 wrote...
Is there anything at all that can lead us to believe that the Architect has changed his overall plan? It seems obvious that making darkspawn sentient doesnt make them always make them more sedate. The Mother and her brood certainly aren't all that peaceful. What's more, they seem to pretty vastly outnumber the Architect's posse.

Am I the only one that therefore finds it hard to believe that a supposedly brilliant mind like the Architect thinks that if he makes all the darkspawn self-aware, peace will spontaneously break out?

This is exactly what can lead us to believe he's changed his overall plan.

He's seen that making everyone tainted won't/can't lead to peace, because once freed of the song, even tainted creatures find reasons to war against each other.  His plan to taint everyone to create peace is flawed, and he'd have to know it now.

Well, that and the fact that it's never even hinted at in the entire game in even the most mild of ways can lead us to assume it has been abandoned.

[clafount]

tmelange wrote...

However! It matters not, because this girl won't be sitting around waiting to be hauled off to the alien cow farm; she won't flip the Skynet switch; she will not be on the welcoming committee when the Visitor ship arrives, offering us a cure for cancer; she will not go quietly to be sacrificed to the demon. When Morpheus offers the pills, she's taking the red one.

I'm not ready to turn myself into a fruit cocktail for some monster so it can reproduce, power its cells, feed itself or achieve its individuality.

I...think I love you for this post! Said it so well, you did.

[LD50]

krylo wrote...

LD50 wrote...
Is there anything at all that can lead us to believe that the Architect has changed his overall plan? It seems obvious that making darkspawn sentient doesnt make them always make them more sedate. The Mother and her brood certainly aren't all that peaceful. What's more, they seem to pretty vastly outnumber the Architect's posse.

Am I the only one that therefore finds it hard to believe that a supposedly brilliant mind like the Architect thinks that if he makes all the darkspawn self-aware, peace will spontaneously break out?

This is exactly what can lead us to believe he's changed his overall plan.

He's seen that making everyone tainted won't/can't lead to peace, because once freed of the song, even tainted creatures find reasons to war against each other.  His plan to taint everyone to create peace is flawed, and he'd have to know it now.

Well, that and the fact that it's never even hinted at in the entire game in even the most mild of ways can lead us to assume it has been abandoned.

So, because every plan he has undertaken to realize his peaceful goals have been colossal failure and unethical to boot, we can only assume that his current plan whill be all sugar and spice and work out fine? 

I don't recall him ever truly mentioning his plans in Awakening, that is true. In fact, he is very vague about all his plans. At the very least, there are a lot of key steps missing in what he has presented.

Warden blood -> Cruel and unusual experiments -> Sentient darkspawn -> ?????  -> World peace! Yay!

The missing steps would be rather worrisome, considering his past behaviour.

[Godak]

Where do you get world peace from? The Architect's only goal is to "free" the darkspawn from the Old Gods' influence.

[LD50]

Godak wrote...

Where do you get world peace from? The Architect's only goal is to "free" the darkspawn from the Old Gods' influence.

A good point. I guess I inferred from the Calling. Seeing as his original plan was to taint everyone and thereby eliminate what he perceive as the cause for conflict between the darkspawn and the rest of Thedas, I guess I just stuck with that idea.

I will certainly admit that it is quite possible that he has no peaceful intentions.

[Forteg]

I spared him but i dont know why,

all i know is that the scout he sends to Amaranthine is an absolute dude and he seems really friendly at the end, for some reason i also find the scenes with him and the dwarf 'Utha' quite funny

[Capone666]

Does anyone know the approval drops and increases for each companion based on this choice?

[Addai]

Nathaniel gives a frowny face for killing him. -3, I think??

[sylvanaerie]

According to Prima guide, Oghren and Nathaniel disapprove if you don't ally to try to end the Blights. Velanna's is kind of weirdly described. She disapproves if you kill him but she also disapproves if you help him. Kinda figure that ties into whats going on with her sister though. Anders disapproves if you help him but won't leave the group over it. Sigrun seems to have the strongest reaction to you helping him as she will leave group and fight you.



This is all Prima guide advice though, I killed him on my playthrough and no one seemed to care.

[tmelange]

clafount wrote...

tmelange wrote...

However! It matters not, because this girl won't be sitting around waiting to be hauled off to the alien cow farm; she won't flip the Skynet switch; she will not be on the welcoming committee when the Visitor ship arrives, offering us a cure for cancer; she will not go quietly to be sacrificed to the demon. When Morpheus offers the pills, she's taking the red one.

I'm not ready to turn myself into a fruit cocktail for some monster so it can reproduce, power its cells, feed itself or achieve its individuality.

I...think I love you for this post! Said it so well, you did.

Thank you! LOL I think I've been outvoted on this thread, and that's fine, but I find it alarming how easily some would sacrifice women in such a horrible fashion for the sake of a species whose existence is inimical to humanity. I wonder if we can come up with a magical way for the men to bear the darkspawn babies. *g* I suspect we'd have a whole different discussion if it were men who were being brutally and sexually violated.

Of course, I'm making a list. When the monsters come, and require certain...sacrifices from us in the furtherance of peace, I'm going to send them in the direction of certain peace-loving people on this thread while I escape to arm the resistance. LOL

[Jostle]

I did NOT spare the architect because my biggest personal questions as a player were not options in the conversation i had with him. My biggest concerns were:



1) If you used your method to free other darkspawn, such as the Mother (who went stark raving mad and continued the Blight) why do you think that freedom of choice for your people is a good thing?



2) Even if you could guarantee that all darkspawn turned "good" upon ingesting Grey Warden blood, how on Earth do you propose I get enough blood for all of them?



3) Even if you could both guarantee that all darkspawn turned "good" upon ingesting Grey Warden blood, AND enough blood could be provided for all the darkspawn, how would your race continue on without your main means of reproduction: capturing and corrupting living humans, dwarves, elves, etc. or kidnapping females and making them into broodmothers?



Since I felt that the very existence of darkspawn, who strive to reproduce as all living things do, was a direct threat to the very existance of every other race of sentient humanoid life, I killed the hell out of him. It's funny how he has this lab and research and all this arcane knowledge but can't see that his very nature was opposed to mine. Unless I COMPLETELY missed something...

[DJ0000]

I just took a chance on ending the blights once and for all. I relaise that he's not going to be able to cure all the darkspawn and even if he did, I have no doubt some of them would still search for the Old Gods anyway but, it's about as viable an option as anything else.



Also, I do see how we could provide some blood, gather all the Wardens and have each of them gave a little blood, an amount that could be survived. This wouldn't be enough to cure them all but it would be enough to let him experiment a little more.



I think I just got tired of having to do everything myself and saw that someone could potentially help out. Also, I got the idea that he was an ally rather than an enemy. At least he and his diciples cpould offer some help.

[MarkyBoy147]

im gonna spare him, for the sake of my demon baby in Dragon Age 2. Hopefully the darkspawn wont be chasing my babeh.

[CybAnt1]

sylvanaerie wrote...

According to Prima guide, Oghren and Nathaniel disapprove if you don't ally to try to end the Blights. Velanna's is kind of weirdly described. She disapproves if you kill him but she also disapproves if you help him. Kinda figure that ties into whats going on with her sister though. Anders disapproves if you help him but won't leave the group over it. Sigrun seems to have the strongest reaction to you helping him as she will leave group and fight you.

This is all Prima guide advice though, I killed him on my playthrough and no one seemed to care.

AFAICT, although people hate on the accuracy of the Prima guide, it seems to assess the situation accurately (from my observation). 

Apparently, Sigrun & Justice will oppose most vehemently your decision to aid the Architect and will turn against you and fight you if you choose to do this ... but the guide does say clearly that's dependent on your approval rating, if it's high/friendly and you do a successful Persuade, they will neither fight you nor leave after this decision.

I know people are mulling over the various reasons whether or not to support the Architect and if we know his real agenda .... bear in mind we know that Fade Spirits are able to perceive things beyond the ken of mortals ... I consider it a fairly significant fact that one of the companions who is most opposed to working with the Architect is Justice.

Let's just say it was another reason I decided against sparing him ... a 2nd time.

 

[KnightofPhoenix]

CybAnt1 wrote...
 bear in mind we know that Fade Spirits are able to perceive things beyond the ken of mortals ... I consider it a fairly significant fact that one of the companions who is most opposed to working with the Architect is Justice. 

 
Eum no. Justice at the end realises that he knows very little about the world of mortals and sees that his world of black and white cannot coexists or be easily implemented with the shades of grey in our world (his own words).
 
Justice is opposed to the Architect (and all darkspawn) for one reason. He is obessed with vengeance or what he likes to call "justice". But at least he can be persuaded to change his very narrow world view.

[Drake Sigar]

I didn't hesitate to kill the Architect. The last thing we needed was darkspawn that can think. They didn't fall back into the earth, destroyed a city, killed thousands of people, used advanced tactics and outsmarted the keep's defenders.



Even if the Architect and his brood did by some miracle manage to hold up their end, you think the humans and dwarfs would sit back and keep the peace? Hell no.

[Volourn]

"Am I the only one that therefore finds it hard to believe that a supposedly brilliant mind like the Architect thinks that if he makes all the darkspawn self-aware, peace will spontaneously break out?"



Peace is never easy. But, mass slaughter is never the first resort it should be the last resorted.



As long as the darkspawn are mindless tainted creatures there will never be peace. There is no surefire way to destroy darkspawn forever. Remember,e even if you kill all the old gods, it doesn't mean the darkspawn will dissappear. They will still exist to murder, cause mayhem, and be a nuicance,



However, with the ability to think and have freedom to choose, what they want like any othr intelligent race there is a chance for peace.



Afterall, elves and humans ar eboth intelligent races supposedly yet in the game they are largely at oods. Meanwhile, the dwarves are too busy playing political games to use their intelligents to do menaingful things to get themselevs back to their former glory. Shoudl we wipe everyone out?



That's the thing. It makes things easier for us if all darkspawn remain mindless monstersas it makes our choice whene cnountering them easy. Just kill them. But, if you cna't just attack darkspawn on sight because that particiualr darkspawn might be on your side, you open yourself up to betrayal.



Afterall, when we meet a fellow human in real life we can't simply point and see hey that guy is a murderer and that guy is a cool dude. We just don't know forcing us to think.



In essence, the choice to keep the darkspawn mindless when we have a way to give them their freedom to choose their path lets' us take the easy path and remain mindless ourselves and makes us lose our freedom to choose as there then is then no choice.



So free the darkspawn to free ourselves.

[elearon1]

Capone666 wrote... Does anyone know the approval drops and increases for each companion based on this choice?

If you have Justice and Sigrun in your party and side with the Architect they will attack you.  

[Efesell]

Unless you talk them down.

[Stoomkal]

You know - I am not sure that anything written about the Architect in "The Calling" is relevant.

For one, that book is full of flaws, inconsistencies, and plain screw ups. Even David Gaider admitted that he wrote it too fast...

... and then submitted the wrong manuscript!

I have no idea how a writer could treat his work like that, but it certainly read like a dime store D&D novel.

Firstly, the European and American versions list different ages and birthdates for some major canonical characters, and then there is the... uh... 'motivation' of Utha. It takes barely a couple of conversations for her to give up her heritage, humanity and ethics and turn to the Dark Side. Not since Anakin Skywalker has there been such a risible flaw in character motivation.

Then there is the Architect. Remember how he looks? Remember his plan? Was any of this even remotely relevant to this game?

I would hazard that they are not even the same character. I would also gather that Gaider's novel is considered by the development team to be little better than fan fiction.

It certainly *adds* gaping plot holes to Awakening, and vice-versa.

So... kill away! They are *obviously* not the same character 

[Efesell]

I have not read The Calling but from what I gather the Architects plan remains fairly similar, it's just his methods that change a great deal.