1316 réponses à ce sujet

[Stoomkal]

Efesell wrote...

Oh I expect it will be referenced.. most major things are.
Provided that it doesn't bug out.. of course.

...

What?

-Like who killed the Archdemon?
-Like the decisions at the end of Origins? (boon, Teryn of Gwaren)
-Like being a King or Queen?
-Like romances?
-Like Morrigan's Child?
-Like well... everything...

Like *those* major things that were referenced, you mean?

I doubt anyone has any confidence in BAwares ability to build a continuous story after Awakening.

It is a spin off using as little detail as humanly possible.

Whether or not the Architect is alive or dead is bound to be *utterly* irrelevant past this expansion... whatever the outcome.

[Efesell]

It could be The Seeker mentioned in the codex entries.

[Stoomkal]

Efesell wrote...

It could be The Seeker mentioned in the codex entries.

I hope so...

I actually would prefer more Disciples in the future... the Architect is just a gaping plot hole as far as I am concerned - I do not believe he can be reconciled with his previous incarnation.

[Efesell]

Stoomkal wrote...

Efesell wrote...

Oh I expect it will be referenced.. most major things are.
Provided that it doesn't bug out.. of course.

...

What?

-Like who killed the Archdemon?
-Like the decisions at the end of Origins? (boon, Teryn of Gwaren)
-Like being a King or Queen?
-Like romances?
-Like Morrigan's Child?
-Like well... everything...

Like *those* major things that were referenced, you mean?

I doubt anyone has any confidence in BAwares ability to build a continuous story after Awakening.

It is a spin off using as little detail as humanly possible.

Whether or not the Architect is alive or dead is bound to be *utterly* irrelevant past this expansion... whatever the outcome.

Being a King/Queen (Well not really but you know): Referenced.
Romances: Referenced.
Morrigan's Child: Irrelevant to the story at hand, not much reason to reference.

And several other decisions from Origins are brought up, minor though they be.

And just what about the Architect is a plot hole? Unless you're still going on about how he looks different so he's apparently a separate character.. in which case nevermind.

Modifié par Efesell, 25 mars 2010 - 09:46 .

[Stoomkal]

You may find a couple of people around this place are a little annoyed about the lack of reference to anything substantial to Origins.



I was just trying to say, that if they continue in their same way, then whatever happens to "Architect 2.0" will probably be completely irrelevant...



I hope I am wrong... but most big choices have become irrelevant from Origins.



And you got one right there... ;-)

[Massadonious1]

How much time has passed between Origins and Awakenings? Going by standard pregnancy periods, Morrigan may not have even had the god-baby yet. You want them to acknowledge that Morrigan is still pregnant? How relevant is that?

[Efesell]

Just a few months, I think? Not long enough anyway. Aside from appeasing Morrigan fans with some info about what's going on it would have no point in this story.



As for Architect.. I think at the very least his disciples will continue to feature. As it's just too big of a plot point to sweep under the rug.

[blademaster7]

Massadonious1 wrote...

How much time has passed between
Origins and Awakenings? Going by standard pregnancy periods, Morrigan
may not have even had the god-baby yet. You want them to acknowledge
that Morrigan is still pregnant? How relevant is that?

Relevant to the story? Not at all. But is sure as hell relevant to my  character(well one of many that is).

She didn't get pregnant out of nowhere. It's also my characters child and I find it dissapointing  that they didn't even throw a single bone(instead they gave a bugged  ending that no one can trigger). You get to hear Oghren moan about  Branka, Felsi and his child all the time and you don't even have a  simple response to say to him "Hey, at least you get to see Felsi your  child every now and then".

It's not like it would cost them much  to put that line on a mute character.

The whole "decisions will  have an impact" is just marketing BS. All I noticed is a 20 second cameo from Alistair. The rest of the game is pretty much 99% the same even if you play as an Orlesian.

Oh, I also saw Wynne and it just made me wish they didn't put her in the XP. WTF happened to her plan to  travel with Shale to Tevinter?

Stoomkal made a valid point by saying that whatever happend to the Architect will never come up again, ever.

Modifié par blademaster7, 25 mars 2010 - 10:14 .

[Massadonious1]

But that's the point. If it's not part of the story, then how satisified will you be with a passing mention?



Allistar:"So, that Morrigan, still pregnant, eh?"

Warden:

1) Probably.

2) Who knows.

3) Who cares, I hated that shrew.



And, I'm with Efesell in regards to the Architect. I'm sorry, but what he's trying to do is something they can't easily retcon. Talking Darkspawn, possible freedom from future Blights? That's a pretty big deal.

[IanPolaris]

Stoomkal wrote...

EDIT: Actually, in Efesell's defence, the Architect thought *precisely* what he is saying... that the death of the Old Gods would free the DS from the call and promote "some kind" of evolution.

Not quite.  What the architect wrote was speculation.  Namely it was speculation that removing the calling would be necessary for there to be any realistic chance for the Darkspawn to awaken on their own.  He never said that removing the song would as a matter of fact cause the Darkspawn to awaken and as I said earlier, there is good reason to think otherwise (at least in the short term).

Ultimately, the sad fact remains that the ecology of the Darkspawn (especially in reproduction) precludes any peaceful co-existance with humanity and drawing on Grey Warden blood only makes this incompatibility worse.

The architect may well be right....what he proposes may well be in the best interest of the Darkspawn race.

However, the fact remains that if lot of the Darkspawn improves, the lot of everyone else is in jeapordy.  That's why I regard siding with the Architect to be an act of Treason (Sigrun certianly thinks so and I agree with her reasoning) not to mention an incredibly dumb thing to do.

In the end either the Darkspawn will take over the entire world or they will have to be eradicated.  Unless the fundamental ecology (and not just sapience) of the Darkspawn changes there is no other alternative.

-Polaris

[blademaster7]

Believed it or not, that would have made a lot of difference to me and many other people.



My current Awakening playthrough ended with my character settling in Denerim with Leliana. I started the game and I did not even got a codex entry to fill me up. My "good ol' friend" Oghren won't even ask me "Hey, how's Leliana doing?". The only thing we get is a powerpoint slide.



There is also the matter of who killed the archdemon. Bioware stated that it would have an impact. Yeah, right... I heard no one mentioning that Loghain died in the final battle as a hero. Whether they know if he took the final blow on the AD matters little. The fact of the matter is that he gave his life fighting the blight and no one even remembers it. Instead, I got all the credit.



Small references like that would have made me view this XP with a different(and better) perspective.



And seeing that ALL the endings suggest that your PC leaves the Wardens and the fact that DA devs mentioned that they will avoid doing another story with a blight; I guess it's safe to say that we won't be seeing the darkspawn and the Architect again(new character or old).

[sylvanaerie]

Efesell wrote...

Just a few months, I think? Not long enough anyway. Aside from appeasing Morrigan fans with some info about what's going on it would have no point in this story.

As for Architect.. I think at the very least his disciples will continue to feature. As it's just too big of a plot point to sweep under the rug.

Except Oghren has married AND produced a child with Felsi by the time of these events.  So it has to be more than just a few months unless he was slipping away during Origins for a little dwarven lovin'.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 25 mars 2010 - 12:09 .

[Efesell]

Maybe it's faster with dwarves. There was that thing with the Dwarf Noble origin too.

[sylvanaerie]

yes but dwarves have fertility issues too. I dont' believe he could have "romanced" Felsi and gotten her with child and married in just a few months. Gestation is gestation, I doubt it happens in 2 or 3 or even 6 months. I would think given similar physiology we would be looking at something close to human gestation.  I would hate to think its just sloppy writing full of holes, would really crap on my opinion of Bioware's writers.

Plus if you talk to Wynne in camp as a mage she will mention its been a year you were on the road. If other Origin timelines follow that general guide then the DN pregnancy would make more sense than Felsi's miracle baby.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 25 mars 2010 - 12:20 .

[Efesell]

Well six months is the time given. So I guess Oghren made a few more visits to that bar than I thought..

[sylvanaerie]

Well it has been at LEAST six months since the Origins ending as you are Alistair's wife if you play the HNF who married him. I would hate to think my honeymoon was spent in Amaranthine building the Wardens instead of snuggling with my new husband. That would suck majorly! I would be willing to go with maybe 10 months or even a year following Origins. Seems to make more sense to me though its never actually mentioned (that I could find).

Of course that would explain the pissy expression my PC has after killing the Mother.  I can see the T-shirt now "I went on my honeymoon, kicked ass and all I got was this lousy T-shirt".

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 25 mars 2010 - 12:27 .

[Efesell]

I thought it had a more concrete mention but maybe that was just from the pre-release speculation.

[sylvanaerie]

And if she JUST had the baby prior to Oghren showing up that really makes me steamed over this guy's abandonment. I wish there was an option to tell him get the hell back to his family what are you doing joining the GW's???? It apparently precludes having a normal life (Look at Kristoff and Aura and Keenan and Nida).



Geez hope Alistair and Valora don't end up like that. I think I would have to go to Bioware's offices and go postal on them if thats the next project.

[CybAnt1]

Massadonious1 wrote...

How much time has passed between Origins and Awakenings? Going by standard pregnancy periods, Morrigan may not have even had the god-baby yet. You want them to acknowledge that Morrigan is still pregnant? How relevant is that?

Unless dwarven gestation is faster or Oghren knocked up Felsi before you actually got them back together at the tavern, it's got to be 9 months after Origins. Oghren has a baby. 

Ergo, Morrigan's baby ... born. 

Dunno, whatever's coming next, I will really be surprised if the story arc isn't central or at least critically elemental to the plot. There's too much hanging in the air. 

Morrigan was as unwilling to discuss the whole detail behind the Dark Ritual as the Architect was to discuss the whole detail behind his Plan (in this case Plan 2.0). 

I don't think the Architect's Plan is going away no matter what ... this is why we're told about the Seeker. 

Further, given the deliberate effort the game has made so far to prevent you from understand what Flemeth and/or Morrigan were up to ... there's got to be a reason for that. 

[Feraele]

IanPolaris wrote...

Cazlee wrote...

I finally finished a game where I didn't spare the architect and I can't tell whether it's a better or worse ending. But it felt awful killing him.

Better to kill the architect than doom the human race to intelligent Darkspawn who have just proven to do a lot of damage.  I kill him without a second thought.  My race's survival comes first.  I regard Utha and the Velanna's sister as traitors.

-Polaris

Both Utha and Velanna's sister, seem to be close to transforming into ghouls, look at their eyes, and the dark blotches on their faces.

Far as I am concerned, they seem mind-controlled or brainwashed.   Both of them are forever changed from their original personalities, and physical bodies.   For Velanna's sister, she is not a GW, so why is she being kept around?  And alive?  To become a broodmother for shrieks?

I have several characters yet to run through Awakening, I think what I will do is..half will kill off both the Architect and The Mother, the other half will allow the Architect to live....thats assuming of course there is some sort of follow-up or follow-through on this expansion.

I wasn't impressed with the lack of continuity here and there through from Origins to Awakening, so I am not holding out hope that we'll get answers to these new questions, should the sequel come along.

Anyways, we'll see.

Modifié par Feraele, 25 mars 2010 - 01:35 .

[Feraele]

CybAnt1 wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

How much time has passed between Origins and Awakenings? Going by standard pregnancy periods, Morrigan may not have even had the god-baby yet. You want them to acknowledge that Morrigan is still pregnant? How relevant is that?

Unless dwarven gestation is faster or Oghren knocked up Felsi before you actually got them back together at the tavern, it's got to be 9 months after Origins. Oghren has a baby. 

Ergo, Morrigan's baby ... born. 

Dunno, whatever's coming next, I will really be surprised if the story arc isn't central or at least critically elemental to the plot. There's too much hanging in the air. 

Morrigan was as unwilling to discuss the whole detail behind the Dark Ritual as the Architect was to discuss the whole detail behind his Plan (in this case Plan 2.0). 

I don't think the Architect's Plan is going away no matter what ... this is why we're told about the Seeker. 

Further, given the deliberate effort the game has made so far to prevent you from understand what Flemeth and/or Morrigan were up to ... there's got to be a reason for that. 

Fernando Melo stated that 6 months have passed since Origins and the start of Awakening..think it was in a long interview done with the Greywarden site.

[CybAnt1]

Then ... again .... either dwarven gestation is one trimester shorter, or Oghren knocked up Felsi three months before you met her. (That could be why she's so mad at him.)



Or ... that statement shouldn't be taken as authoritative, given that yes, Wynne says it's been *a year* or so since she's seen you.

[sylvanaerie]

Feraele wrote...

CybAnt1 wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

How much time has passed between Origins and Awakenings? Going by standard pregnancy periods, Morrigan may not have even had the god-baby yet. You want them to acknowledge that Morrigan is still pregnant? How relevant is that?

Unless dwarven gestation is faster or Oghren knocked up Felsi before you actually got them back together at the tavern, it's got to be 9 months after Origins. Oghren has a baby. 

Ergo, Morrigan's baby ... born. 

Dunno, whatever's coming next, I will really be surprised if the story arc isn't central or at least critically elemental to the plot. There's too much hanging in the air. 

Morrigan was as unwilling to discuss the whole detail behind the Dark Ritual as the Architect was to discuss the whole detail behind his Plan (in this case Plan 2.0). 

I don't think the Architect's Plan is going away no matter what ... this is why we're told about the Seeker. 

Further, given the deliberate effort the game has made so far to prevent you from understand what Flemeth and/or Morrigan were up to ... there's got to be a reason for that. 

Fernando Melo stated that 6 months have passed since Origins and the start of Awakening..think it was in a long interview done with the Greywarden site.

I think the Continuity Gods must have been asleep at the wheel then...Don't really see Oghren hooking up and knocking up Felsi (esp considering dwarven fertility issues) in 6 months time.

[Ambeth]

IanPolaris wrote...

Edit PS:  Eventually either humanity or the darkspawn will have to become extinct.  The fundamental ecologies can not co-exist which means the architect (if he is sincere which is an open question) is doomed to fail anyway.  Far better that humanity fight DUMB darkspawn than SMART darkspawn.  Sigrun has it right.

Interesting point, though - if humanity (and by that I mean humans, elves, dwarves and qunari - what word to use to encompass them all?) goes extinct, the darkspawn will not be far behind.  (*begin mental rambling* Which means they are less parasite and more infection - they have to hijack a 'cell' (female human/dwarf/elf/qunari) to make more of themselves.  But an infection that kills the host is ultimately a failure, as the infection must then die out, too.  *end mental rambling*)

[LD50]

Just to throw some fuel on the fire:

Has anyone considered the possibility that the darkspawn truly are biblical boogeymen?

If the Chantry is correct, then the darkspawn are basically the result of Tevinter mages cursed by the Maker for their sins.

In this view, the darkspawn are basically divine retribution upon the mortal world. A plague that will last until the last Blight and the last of the old Tevinter gods is dead.

You can easily make a Lucifer parallel (à la Paradise Lost) with the Architect.

Modern atheistic views aside, its hard to doubt the existence of some sort of supreme being in the DA universe. Not necessarily an omnipotent godhead but there is evidence of *something*. The Black City can be seen in the Fade, the ashes of Andraste thing and so on.

So, consider the possibility that they are monsters without souls sent both to test mortals and to punish the Tevinter.

Does this not affect the idea of sparing the Architect? Come to think of it, it would likely make having the child with Morrigan a monstrous sin as well but that is not really germane to the discussion.