1316 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...

Suffice to say that I find the Architect a much more reliable source on this specific issue than what you are saying. No reason for mycharacter to doubt him in that specific issue.  

The architect lies to you multiple time including the attack on Vigil's keep.  He's not a good person to believe.

Completely and utterly irrelevent.
The attack on Vigil's keep is a matter of common sense that my character can understand and grasp.
The issue about the darkspawn and the song on the otherhand he cannot and clearly the Architect knows more about this than him, the proof being that he succeeded in freeing some of his people.
No reason to believe he is lying in his notes about the song and the darspawn. Period.

[IanPolaris]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ IanPolaris
The Architect's NOTES (not what he tells me) and his success is all the evidence I need to know that he is right in that particular issue. The rest is irrelevent.

The NOTES themselves are rife with speculation.

If a scientist lied to me about a certain thing, that wouldn't make me doubt his notes, especially if his experirments wielded the results he wanted.
The Architect is a more reliable source on this issue than you for one.

We know that the experiment is a sucess.  That does NOT mean that the architect's theory is the right one.  At most it is one and only one piece of evidence for it.  The Architect doesn't do anything close to proper scientific reasoning or analysis (including the isolation of variables) for you to call the Architect's notes to be anything other than speculation.

I am tired to repeating myself.
His motives are secondary to why I spare him. The fact that he can potentially avert the blights and provide guidance to a species that will be freed anyhow is the primary reason. His motives are anotehr issue, that I have already discussed in detail before and I won't do so again.

Nice.  What makes blights so scare is that while the AD is around, the Darkspawn are SMART (or at least Cunning).  So you want to eliminate the future blights and have humanity suffer from a blight all the time until they are exinct!  BRILLIANT!  The fact is that the Darkspawn will always regard humanity as Prey.  Their ecology demands it.  That being so, all Darkspawn must die.   It's a cruddy solution, but given a choice betwen Darkspawn and humanity, I'll take humanity every time.

-Polaris

"Sigrun Was Right"

[tmelange]

master-fluff wrote...

Why is no one thinking of the Childrens ?

From what I understand, The Children are corrupted darkspawn produced only by The Mother who just happens to be the only broodmother "freed" by The Architect, right ? By siding with The Architect and 'freeing' the darkspawn, aren't you also giving them a potential army of Children to play with ?

The darkspawn wouldn't be subjugated into peace by fear of dying as some Architect apologists seem to be suggesting, they could just send the kids out to play.

I have, many times, over the last few days thought about the issue of the children. I think it's easier to confer "people" status on the inimical when the beings at issue look humanoid. But the children look like creatures, and they're prevalent like insects. The darkspawn horde is more than just the hurlocks or some architect that probably isn't even an ordinary darkspawn, from how he looks. Would the children become intelligent too? Should we enable a horde of intelligent roaches to overrun the earth? 

It's just all so ridiculous. I know there is a gaming propensity to find a way to rationalize positions that in reality would be completely untenable, but in the case of the darkspawn, the prosperity of their species subtracts from the prosperity of the humanoid species.

And, I don't think it's some big moral conundrum to draw a line in the sand, to look out for the best interest of your own kind, and to simply say that the darkspawn's right to exist "free" and unimpeded ends where it impinges on our right to exist free and unimpeded. There is no moral requirement for us to give up our blood, our women, our environment, our health, our safety and security, our sanity, and our way of life just so that some mad scientist can complete a eugenics program that posits some inalienable right for the darkspawn to be better than they are.

Modifié par tmelange, 25 mars 2010 - 08:41 .

[IanPolaris]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Completely and utterly irrelevent.
The attack on Vigil's keep is a matter of common sense that my character can understand and grasp.
The issue about the darkspawn and the song on the otherhand he cannot and clearly the Architect knows more about this than him, the proof being that he succeeded in freeing some of his people.
No reason to believe he is lying in his notes about the song and the darspawn. Period.

No it's not irrelvant.  Vigil's Keep is proof positive that the Architect can not be trusted and does NOT have your best interests at heart.

-Polaris

[Addai]

KoP: How is it that you come to assume that intelligent darkspawn are free from the influence of the song? What if they are still following the call of the old gods, but are simply more tactically sophisticated in their intent to subjugate humanity?

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ IanPolaris
The Architect's NOTES (not what he tells me) and his success is all the evidence I need to know that he is right in that particular issue. The rest is irrelevent.

The NOTES themselves are rife with speculation.

Speculation that wielded the reults he wanted. To say that he reached the results he wanted, with the wrong theory is a big stretch. One which I won't make, thank you very much. 

Nice.  What makes blights so scare is that while the AD is around, the Darkspawn are SMART (or at least Cunning).  So you want to eliminate the future blights and have humanity suffer from a blight all the time until they are exinct!  BRILLIANT! 

No, once the old Gods are dead and there is no more song, there is no more blights, that's the very definition of the word. At best, it would be hordes.
To assume that the darkspawn will all be united under one banner and blindly obey orders like in a blight, while beign awakened, is a stretch.

Humanity being extinct = darkspawn being extinct.
If the darkspawn become rational, they would know that it's not tin their self interest to extemriante the others.
Durign the lbight on the otherhand, they are not motivated by reason.

I would much rather fight any enemy that can be reasonable, can show fear, can disobey orders, can show some form of morality, can be negotiated with (see Qunari merchant) than having to face hordes of mindless pawns that do not act with reason, cannot know fear, cannot hesitate, cannot disobey orders, want nothing else than the extermiantion of all life.

A war of limited aims with intelligent darkspawn, that can have some principles, is better than having to face 2 blights that have a strong possibility to eradicate all life.

[IanPolaris]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
It's irrelevent if the song became stronger or not. The point is that Ruck was dominated by the song mentally. That's the point.

It also disproves your thesis.  Ruck was driven insane by the taint and was dominated by the song, but he was fully sapient.  How do we know this?  Ruck was able to intelligently discourse with the GW and even trade with him or her.  Thus we know that there is no causal link between being mindless and hearing the song (although there does seem to be a causal link between sanity and hearing the song....but everyone already knew that).

-Polaris

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...

KoP: How is it that you come to assume that intelligent darkspawn are free from the influence of the song? What if they are still following the call of the old gods, but are simply more tactically sophisticated in their intent to subjugate humanity?

Because if that's the case, the Mother wouldn't have gone mad. It's clear that she is no longer influenced by the song, because she can't hear it, which made her mad. She may want to hear it again, but she isn't influenced by it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
It's irrelevent if the song became stronger or not. The point is that Ruck was dominated by the song mentally. That's the point.

It also disproves your thesis.  Ruck was driven insane by the taint and was dominated by the song, but he was fully sapient.  How do we know this?  Ruck was able to intelligently discourse with the GW and even trade with him or her.  Thus we know that there is no causal link between being mindless and hearing the song (although there does seem to be a causal link between sanity and hearing the song....but everyone already knew that).

No it doesn't. At all.
Ruck says that the song is getting irresistible. It's a slow process. Same happens with the Wardens and that's why they eventually start having more vivid dreams (due to the song).
But at the end, they become mindless. Ruck will have no choice but to join the blight after a certain period of time. And read the codexes about the ghouls. They become mindless. And that's due to the song (WArden dreams, what Ruck is saying).  

Ruck was not a ghoul when we talk to him. He was in the process of becoming a ghoul.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 mars 2010 - 08:52 .

[IanPolaris]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Speculation that wielded the reults he wanted. To say that he reached the results he wanted, with the wrong theory is a big stretch. One which I won't make, thank you very much. 

No it's not.  In fact it happens all the time in science (getting the "right" results for the wrong reason).  That is why the scientific methode exists and why the Architect's notes are just speculation.  All we KNOW is that Grey Warden blood can cause Darkspawn to awaken.  That's IT!

Nice.  What makes blights so scare is that while the AD is around, the Darkspawn are SMART (or at least Cunning).  So you want to eliminate the future blights and have humanity suffer from a blight all the time until they are exinct!  BRILLIANT! 

No, once the old Gods are dead and there is no more song, there is no more blights, that's the very definition of the word. At best, it would be hordes.
To assume that the darkspawn will all be united under one banner and blindly obey orders like in a blight, while beign awakened, is a stretch.

Not necessary that they are.  The Darkspawn spread lethal disease by contact (and possibly by proximity), they take and ensalve human (and elf, dwarf, quonari) females in order to reproduce AND they outbreed the humanities by AT LEAST 1000:1 (and I am inclined to think it's probably closer to 100,000 to one).

Given that, and if the Darkspawn are smart too, then Humanity is doomed (between warring nations of Darkspawn that view them as food, slaves, or worse).

Humanity being extinct = darkspawn being extinct.
If the darkspawn become rational, they would know that it's not tin their self interest to extemriante the others.
Durign the lbight on the otherhand, they are not motivated by reason.

Look around.  How often are even sapient cultures rational enough to look that far ahead.  Even IF they were, then the best that humanity would have to hope for would be to be treated as cattle by the Darkspawn overlords.

That might be even worse than extinction.

I would much rather fight any enemy that can be reasonable, can show fear, can disobey orders, can show some form of morality, can be negotiated with (see Qunari merchant) than having to face hordes of mindless pawns that do not act with reason, cannot know fear, cannot hesitate, cannot disobey orders, want nothing else than the extermiantion of all life.

A war of limited aims with intelligent darkspawn, that can have some principles, is better than having to face 2 blights that have a strong possibility to eradicate all life.

The problem is that fundamentally, Darkspawn even if fully intelligent are incompatible with humanity.  They can not co-exist.

-Polaris

Modifié par IanPolaris, 25 mars 2010 - 09:03 .

[IanPolaris]

Ghouls become mindless because the Taint destroyes their mind.  There are plenty of real-life diseases and conditions and poisons that act very similiarly.  YOU are speculating that it's because of the the Song.

The codecies are very clear.  It is the TAINT (read poison) that makes Ghouls go insane and eventually mindless, not the Song.  In fact all Grey Wardens hear the song too, but they are not mindless.

The link you desperately need to make your decision justifiable simply isn't there as a matter of fact.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

KoP: How is it that you come to assume that intelligent darkspawn are free from the influence of the song? What if they are still following the call of the old gods, but are simply more tactically sophisticated in their intent to subjugate humanity?

Because if that's the case, the Mother wouldn't have gone mad. It's clear that she is no longer influenced by the song, because she can't hear it, which made her mad. She may want to hear it again, but she isn't influenced by it.

You don't know (and neither do I) why Mother went mad.  I might also have been a side-effect of the anti-joining ritual rather than the cessesion of the song.  I know what Mother says, but even more than the Architect, I wouldn't hold much stock in anything she says either. 

The point is you don't know and your information sources are suspect at best.  Even IF we accept that intelligent darkspawn aren't influenced by the song, it does NOT imply that if there were no song then all Darkspawn would become intelligent.   Logic and the world doesn't work that way.

-Polaris 

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...
No it's not.  In fact it happens all the time in science (getting the "right" results for the wrong reason).  That is why the scientific methode exists and why the Architect's notes are just speculation.  All we KNOW is that Grey Warden blood can cause Darkspawn to awaken.  That's IT!

Because Warden blood means resistance to the song, yes I know that. The Architect knows that. And he is a more reliable source in this matter than you or I.

Not necessary that they are.  The Darkspawn spread lethal disease by contact (and possibly by proximity), they take and ensalve human (and elf, dwarf, quonari) females in order to reproduce AND they outbreed the humanities by AT LEAST 1000:1 (and I am inclined to think it's probably closer to 100,000 to one).

Given that, and if the Darkspawn are smart too, then Humanity is doomed (between warring nations of Darkspawn that view them as food, slaves, or worse).

The Qunari merchant was proctected from infection. So interaction with the darkspawn is possible. And a certain form of co-existance is possible.

The reproduction issue, while a problem, can be remedied.
The fact is, they do not need that many broodmothers, so the incentvie to capture many is low. Once they become intelligent, they have no need to do so. They might, they might not. To potray it as a need is false.

The broodmother issue can be solved by sending away the most criminal women to the darkspawn, while tranquilising them (so they do nto feel emotional pain). An ugly solution. But one that might preserve peace.

The problem is that fundamentally, Darkspawn even if fully intelligent are incompatible with humanity.  They can not co-exist.

Yes they can, to a certain extent. They do not need to wipe us out. They do not need that many of our women. And they have nothign to gain from tainting us. And the infection can be contained and humans can be protected from it in order to have some form of interaction (Quanri merchant).

So it's not impossible to co-exist. Neither sides gains anythign from annihilating the other. And no side needs to completely rule over the other.
So yes, they can coexist. Whether they will or not is another issue.

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...

Ghouls become mindless because the Taint destroyes their mind.  There are plenty of real-life diseases and conditions and poisons that act very similiarly.  YOU are speculating that it's because of the the Song.

The codecies are very clear.  It is the TAINT (read poison) that makes Ghouls go insane and eventually mindless, not the Song.  In fact all Grey Wardens hear the song too, but they are not mindless.

The link you desperately need to make your decision justifiable simply isn't there as a matter of fact.

No, Ruck says it's because the song is getting stronger. That's evidence. The rotting of the mind is because the song becomes a strong impulse.

The fact that the Wardens have vivid dreams about the Archdemons and can "listen" to them is proof that the song is making them mindless. The fact that their dreams become much stronger and that some Wardens can even understand the dreams before they go to the callign shows that the song is at the center, not the taint.  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 mars 2010 - 09:08 .

[IanPolaris]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
No it's not.  In fact it happens all the time in science (getting the "right" results for the wrong reason).  That is why the scientific methode exists and why the Architect's notes are just speculation.  All we KNOW is that Grey Warden blood can cause Darkspawn to awaken.  That's IT!

Because Warden blood means resistance to the song, yes I know that. The Architect knows that. And he is a more reliable source in this matter than you or I.

Yes but WHY?  Does Grey Warden Blood make you resistant to the Song which causes the Darkspawn to become Sapient (as you contend) OR (which is what I think is far more likely) does Grey Warden Blood enable the Darkspawn to master  or tamp-down his own taint which enables him to think and articulate and it is THIS which also (as a side effect) makes you resistant to the song?  The architect doesn't know.  He speculates but doesn't know.

Not necessary that they are.  The Darkspawn spread lethal disease by contact (and possibly by proximity), they take and ensalve human (and elf, dwarf, quonari) females in order to reproduce AND they outbreed the humanities by AT LEAST 1000:1 (and I am inclined to think it's probably closer to 100,000 to one).

Given that, and if the Darkspawn are smart too, then Humanity is doomed (between warring nations of Darkspawn that view them as food, slaves, or worse).

The Qunari merchant was proctected from infection. So interaction with the darkspawn is possible. And a certain form of co-existance is possible.

We don't really know what was involved in keeping the Qunari merchant "taint" free.  We know from the epilog and from other sources that unless you take very special precautions (which the Architect with that sole exception doesn't bother to do), then the lethal taint IS spread apparently by very casual contact.  It's one thing that makes Grey Wardens special....they are immune from this (for obvious reasons).  I fail to see how the darkspawn would even take the trouble since the Architect clearly isn't bothered by it (nor is the 'messenger').

The reproduction issue, while a problem, can be remedied.
The fact is, they do not need that many broodmothers, so the incentvie to capture many is low. Once they become intelligent, they have no need to do so. They might, they might not. To potray it as a need is false.

All species, intelligent or not, desire to reproduce.  Also note that the Architect says NOTHING about dealing with the Broodmother issue,...and he is plenty smart enough to think of it.  It is a biological need to prey on humanity in order for Darkspawn to reproduce.  That is even more so if the Darkspawn start fighting each other....in which case they will enslave as many human (or elf, dwarf,etc) women as possible (on each side) to build up the biggest armies the fastest.

Don't tell me that they wouldn't think of it this way since our own human histroy IRL says just the opposite.

The broodmother issue can be solved by sending away the most criminal women to the darkspawn, while tranquilising them (so they do nto feel emotional pain). An ugly solution. But one that might preserve peace.

Why should the darkspawn care?  It's the Golem/Caradin/Branka issue all over again except on steroids.  Warring Darkspawn "kings" will as many "human" women as possible for his armies no matter what....and intelligent Darkspawn would have the power and numbers to take what they want by force.

The problem is that fundamentally, Darkspawn even if fully intelligent are incompatible with humanity.  They can not co-exist.

Yes they can, to a certain extent. They do not need to wipe us out. They do not need that many of our women. And they have nothign to gain from tainting us. And the infection can be contained and humans can be protected from it in order to have some form of interaction (Quanri merchant).

So it's not impossible to co-exist. Neither sides gains anythign from annihilating the other. And no side needs to completely rule over the other.
So yes, they can coexist. Whether they will or not is another issue.

I'm sorry, but any race that fundamentally preys on another and uses that other race to parasitally reproduce IS fundamentally and ecologically unable to coexist with the other especially from the PoV of the Prey race (ie Humanity).  At best, if you help the architect, you will doom humanity to be a slave/cattle/breeder race for the Darkspawn.

-Polaris

[Addai]

Ruck tells you that the song is getting stronger, that's true, but it is NOT clear that he is losing his mind because of that. He's losing his mind because of the taint, and that in turn makes him susceptible to the song. It is as the taint advances in Grey Wardens that they, too, begin to lose their ability to reason and control themselves.

[IanPolaris]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Ghouls become mindless because the Taint destroyes their mind.  There are plenty of real-life diseases and conditions and poisons that act very similiarly.  YOU are speculating that it's because of the the Song.

The codecies are very clear.  It is the TAINT (read poison) that makes Ghouls go insane and eventually mindless, not the Song.  In fact all Grey Wardens hear the song too, but they are not mindless.

The link you desperately need to make your decision justifiable simply isn't there as a matter of fact.

No, Ruck says it's because the song is getting stronger. That's evidence. The rotting of the mind is because the song becomes a strong impulse.

Ruck says that the song is getting stronger.  First of all what Ruck says given his state is unreliable at best and secondly, it still doesn't prove that the SONG is making him mindless.  It only shows that the taint is rotting his brain.

In short, the evidence you think is there doesn't say what you think it does.

The fact that the Wardens have vivid dreams about the Archdemons and can "listen" to them is proof that the song is making them mindless. The fact that their dreams become much stronger and that some Wardens can even understand the dreams before they go to the callign shows that the song is at the center, not the taint.  

False.  Eventually it's the TAINT that claims you, not the song.  The Dreams are like a gauge to how far the taint has progressed.  All the evidence says that it is the TAINT that eventually makes you mindless, not the Song.

-Polaris

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...
Yes but WHY?  Does Grey Warden Blood make you resistant to the Song which causes the Darkspawn to become Sapient (as you contend) OR (which is what I think is far more likely) does Grey Warden Blood enable the Darkspawn to master  or tamp-down his own taint which enables him to think and articulate and it is THIS which also (as a side effect) makes you resistant to the song?  The architect doesn't know.  He speculates but doesn't know.

And let's assume that's true, I think the Architect knows more than you on this (he experimented, you are coming up with theories from thin air), so I will believe him on this specific issue.

We don't really know what was involved in keeping the Qunari merchant "taint" free.  We know from the epilog and from other sources that unless you take very special precautions (which the Architect with that sole exception doesn't bother to do), then the lethal taint IS spread apparently by very casual contact.  It's one thing that makes Grey Wardens special....they are immune from this (for obvious reasons).  I fail to see how the darkspawn would even take the trouble since the Architect clearly isn't bothered by it (nor is the 'messenger').

Irrelevent. The point is that it's possible and not impossible as you contend.
 
And the infection seems to be more due to the consumption of blood (wardens, manabri, ruck..e.tc), then casual interaction.

The taint will not reach the level necessary to wipe out the species.

All species, intelligent or not, desire to reproduce.  Also note that the Architect says NOTHING about dealing with the Broodmother issue,...and he is plenty smart enough to think of it.  It is a biological need to prey on humanity in order for Darkspawn to reproduce.  That is even more so if the Darkspawn start fighting each other....in which case they will enslave as many human (or elf, dwarf,etc) women as possible (on each side) to build up the biggest armies the fastest.

Don't tell me that they wouldn't think of it this way since our own human histroy IRL says just the opposite.

A possibility. Not a necessity.
Just like it's a possibility that the USA suddenly invades Canada to get its oil (an economic necessity). That doesn't mean we should plan to annihilate the Americans.

Intelligent darkspawn can be negotiated with. And they can show moral concerns. That's not the case with the blights that you don't seem concerned about.
 
If they seek to make war, we will fight back. Simple as that. Competition and strife is always good.

Other than the fact that exterminate the darkspawn is a morally questionable decision, in practise it may prove to be impossible, especialyl if they become awakened even after the old gods are destroyed.
It's just choosing the less painful option. I prefer an enemy that can be neogtiated with and can be influenced by emotions.

[tmelange]

Addai67 wrote...

Ruck tells you that the song is getting stronger, that's true, but it is NOT clear that he is losing his mind because of that. He's losing his mind because of the taint, and that in turn makes him susceptible to the song. It is as the taint advances in Grey Wardens that they, too, begin to lose their ability to reason and control themselves.

This is what I think also. The song is a constant -- not in the sense that it can't change in nature/intensity, because apparently it does as it becomes corrupted -- but in the sense that whatever effect it has should be the same on all beings subject to that effect. If the song was the thing that causes Ruck to lose his mind, then the song would have the same effect on the same class of people at the same time (like listening to the radio). It's only because each individual person is in a different state of deterioration as a result of the taint that the song has a different effect. 

Which takes us back to the point that it is not the song that makes the difference; it is the TAINT and the resistance (or lack of resistance) to the effects of the taint that controls the state of the mind.

Modifié par tmelange, 25 mars 2010 - 09:31 .

[Volourn]

"Genocide is the appropriate response."



Genocide is NEVER the appropriate response.

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Ghouls become mindless because the Taint destroyes their mind.  There are plenty of real-life diseases and conditions and poisons that act very similiarly.  YOU are speculating that it's because of the the Song.

The codecies are very clear.  It is the TAINT (read poison) that makes Ghouls go insane and eventually mindless, not the Song.  In fact all Grey Wardens hear the song too, but they are not mindless.

The link you desperately need to make your decision justifiable simply isn't there as a matter of fact.

No, Ruck says it's because the song is getting stronger. That's evidence. The rotting of the mind is because the song becomes a strong impulse.

Ruck says that the song is getting stronger.  First of all what Ruck says given his state is unreliable at best and secondly, it still doesn't prove that the SONG is making him mindless.  It only shows that the taint is rotting his brain.

Except he is hearing the Archdemon, aka an old God, aka the source of the song.

The fact that the Wardens have vivid dreams about the Archdemons and can "listen" to them is proof that the song is making them mindless. The fact that their dreams become much stronger and that some Wardens can even understand the dreams before they go to the callign shows that the song is at the center, not the taint.  

False.  Eventually it's the TAINT that claims you, not the song.  The Dreams are like a gauge to how far the taint has progressed.  All the evidence says that it is the TAINT that eventually makes you mindless, not the Song.

Nope. The dreams are about the OLD GODS aka the source of the song. It's not dreams that come out of nowhere. It's consistent dreams about one single thing, the source of the song.

If it was indeed the taint only, I find it hard to believe that all the Wardens happen to dream about the exact same thing, which happens to be the source of the song.

One cannot hear the song without being tainted. But the fact that the Wardens go to their calling ONLY when they start having stronger dreams about the Old Gods, shows that the song is the heart of the issue.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 mars 2010 - 09:37 .

[IanPolaris]

Volourn wrote...

"Genocide is the appropriate response."

Genocide is NEVER the appropriate response.

Smallpox disagrees.

What we did to smallpox amounted to genocide.  The Darkspawn are essentially equivalent.  They are a disease that threatens humanity and can not coexist with it.

Genocide against the Darkspawn is appropriate and logical measure.

-Polaris

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...

Volourn wrote...

"Genocide is the appropriate response."

Genocide is NEVER the appropriate response.

Smallpox disagrees.

What we did to smallpox amounted to genocide.  The Darkspawn are essentially equivalent.  They are a disease that threatens humanity and can not coexist with it.

Genocide against the Darkspawn is appropriate and logical measure.

-Polaris

Smallpox can't think. It isn't sentient.

The darkspawn can be sentient. and not only that, they can be morally benevolent (the Messenger).
I would have alot of problem extermiantign them.

[CybAnt1]

The Architect succeeded in freeing darkspawn. 

Well, according to his notes, he's experimented on freeing dozens. 

And the number of benevolent, friendly (not just intelligent) darkspawn you've encountered?

That's right. ONE. The Messenger. Maybe that was his ONLY success. (By success, I mean not just creating a sentient darkspawn, but one that won't attack and threaten humans, let alone help them.) 

What does that suggest about his track record? I think he's not doing so hot. 

I ran into a lot of intelligent, sentient darkspawn, now with names. The Lost. The Withered. The First. Etc. Most of them were still hostile and dangerous. The Messenger was the only one I ran into that I would call genuinely different. 

Given his low success rate, the Architect's Plan (2.0) is still a danger to the human/etc. races. 

[IanPolaris]

You Architect Apologists keep missing the point:



Sure the Old Gods may be the source of the song. Yes the Taint may enable you to hear it. What you have consistantly FAILED to show is that there is a causal relationship between the Song and the Darkspawn awakening in either direction. All the source material makes it very plain that the song doesn't rot your brain. The TAINT does that.



There is no a priori reason to think that just because the Song might end, that the Darkspawn would all instantly awaken. There is a lot of reason to think that the Darkspawn are implacably hostile and can not peacefully coexist with humanity unless humanity is a cattle/slave race to the Darkspawn. Even intelligent darkspawn would have no motive or reason to "negotiate" with their food when they would have the overwhelming numbers and resources to simply take what they want (and that IS the Darkspawn nature awkened or no as DOA-A proves).



Far better to maintain the status quo and give humanity a fighting chance against dumb darkspawn than side with the Architect and thus make a race that views you are PREY even stronger.



-Polaris