1316 réponses à ce sujet

[Ezio Faraglia]

I spared the Architect because he seemed like a genuine person, not just a darkspawn. While not a perfect idea to end the blights, it is an idea.

And the main reason, is because the ONE and single duty of the wardens is to end the blight. Sparing the Architect is either a shortcut to ending blights, with a possibility of the smart darkspawn and humans not being able to coexist (but honestly, without the mother to convince the 'changed' darkspawn, they will be faithful to the Architect, less chance of warring upon humans). The other option, is to kill the architect and not follow your duty to end the blights no matter the cost (even if the cost includes intelligent darkspawn attacking). It even says in the epilogue that the cycle of the old gods will continue

Plus, the architect is doing noble work for his people. He is saving them from enslavement and potentially ending the blight. If he doesn't end the blight, he is an ally during them or there will be less darkspawn to deal with. Either way, sparing the architect is like keeping options open.

Btw, who's to say that the architect wants more broodmothers? they have tons of them and he will be breaking his promise if he attempts to take human resources. And he is obviously afraid of the commander

[Thor Rand Al]

Ezio Faraglia wrote...

I spared the Architect because he seemed like a genuine person, not just a darkspawn. While not a perfect idea to end the blights, it is an idea.
And the main reason, is because the ONE and single duty of the wardens is to end the blight. Sparing the Architect is either a shortcut to ending blights, with a possibility of the smart darkspawn and humans not being able to coexist (but honestly, without the mother to convince the 'changed' darkspawn, they will be faithful to the Architect, less chance of warring upon humans). The other option, is to kill the architect and not follow your duty to end the blights no matter the cost (even if the cost includes intelligent darkspawn attacking). It even says in the epilogue that the cycle of the old gods will continue
Plus, the architect is doing noble work for his people. He is saving them from enslavement and potentially ending the blight. If he doesn't end the blight, he is an ally during them or there will be less darkspawn to deal with. Either way, sparing the architect is like keeping options open.
Btw, who's to say that the architect wants more broodmothers? they have tons of them and he will be breaking his promise if he attempts to take human resources. And he is obviously afraid of the commander

Would you be willing to put the lives of the very ones that you're sworn to protect by becoming a Grey Warden to that risk?

"A Grey Wardens duty is to defend mankind from the Blight.  It is not for us to judge, to gamble with the lives of those in our care."

[Thor Rand Al]

Architects own words from The Calling book.  "Ending the Blights is not enough.  Freed of their compulsions, the darkspawn would tear each other apart.  It would be a vast bloodletting.  But in time they would regain their numbers, and then the threat of the taint we carry would once again bring us into conflict with your kind."

That right there is the reason why darkspawn can never coexist with the outside world.  Doesn't matter if they never bring another Archdemon out ever again.  If you allow the Architect to continue on all your doing is dooming the outside world because your giving them power.  There is only 1 way for humans and darkspawn to coexist, to stop this from ever happening and if you read the book then you know what the Architect had plans in the book.  Who's to say he still doesn't have that planned.  Whats to stop him from making his army and succeeding.  You who allowed this to happen in the first place by letting him live?  If allowed to continue on these creatures will be more powerful, more intelligent and harder to defeat. 

[Vicious]

Darkspawn cannot co-exist with other races. Ever. So it's up to one to decide if the threat of constant war against them is greater or less than the threat of 2 more blights.



That said, the blight, the sickness the Darkspawn spread, is completely under-represented in the games, and made out to be a very big deal in the lore.



Other than that, it matters little really. Bioware can simply have another intelligent Darkspawn [there's plenty running around] to pick up where the Architect left off.

[Costin_Razvan]

THIS (the intelligence, cunning, and collective will) is what makes the Blights so dangerous. If you side wth the architect, you agree to end periodic blights with (eventually) a blight that lasts 24/7.

Architect's darkspawn are individuals who make their own choices, some are good some are bad exactly like people. An Archdemon's darkspawn are mindless beasts who act following a hive mind, they could be compared to Tyranids.



I would argue, based on facts we know. That an Archdemon is far more dangerous then any intelligent darkspawn. Each Blight has had the potential to wipe out all life on the surface, the first was barely stopped as it was.

[bruntie2]

From reading The Calling you'd know all about The Architect's future plans.



(SPOILERS for those who haven't read The Calling)



He wanted to turn every human into a Grey Warden (meaning most people would die), and then taintify them (and they're pretty crazy then). Is it worth stopping the Blights if all the people left are tainted and possibly crazy? Short answer:no. Letting The Architect live is a terrible idea.

[Layn]

his heart seemed in the right place, he just did some stupid things. Come on, if you do something that can possibly start a blight, at least tell others!
I thought free will is always a good thing. If this really could stop darkspawn from finding any more old gods, it would be good. Of course, now darkspawn wouldn't need leadership and still stay around fighting, but at least they don't all agree and fight each other, making it easier for us.
I wanted however for grey wardens to stay in contact with the architect, to work together to prevent any more wars between darkspawn and everyone else, they'd just have to have their own place and be seperated from everyone else. Also i thought that the grey wardens should have helped the darkspawn in setting up a government with laws and everything.

of course when all this was decided, i didn't read the calling, nor did my warden. But the Epilogues actually seem pretty good. And the messenger i spared even went vigilante and helped people (the idiot however ends up tainting people)

anyway, the architect seems to want peace. Any other awakened darkspawn that might take over after him might want the opposite

anyway, yay i'm responsible for the existence of an old god child and the existence of intelligent darkspawn. Weisshaupt will definitely like me.

Modifié par Crrash, 27 mars 2010 - 11:41 .

[darkshadow136]

I spared him he was born different then the other Darkspawn a mutant if you want to use the reference. He was an outcast of his own kind, and wanted co-existance, peace for his people, and freedom from the old gods. He just lacked the knowledge and people skills with other races in the beginning to show his peaceful motivations. I think if you sparred him , and they include him in either DAO2 or another expansion he will be a valuable ally for you. Lets face it whether you talk about the chantry's treatment of Mages, snobbish high up grey wardens that are safe in Orleas, or the human nobility of Fereldon you will have a lot of armchair quarterbacks 2nd guessing your decisions when they are just sitting back while you are on the fron lines fighting the battle for them.

[Vulee94]

@OP: Damn you for reminding me of VTMB, now I have to play it AGAIN!

[Darkannex]

This is sort of why I dislike Awakening. You need meta-game knowledge to see the whole picture. For people who haven't read The Calling-the Architect comes off as a much different type of being. For those of us who HAVE read The Calling, we get a whole plethora of knowledge which our characters in game really should have no way of knowing - but it is VITAL to know.

[Costin_Razvan]

He has changed his views since the Calling however. Realizing that with Grey Warden blood the Darkspawn no longer hear the Old God's Calling.

[Layn]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

He has changed his views since the Calling however. Realizing that with Grey Warden blood the Darkspawn no longer hear the Old God's Calling.

yes, but even so darkspawn can't coexist with others without tainting them. even the vigilante messenger darkspawn tries to do good things but ends up tainting people just because he got near to them.

[Sarah1281]

And the main reason, is because the ONE and single duty of the wardens is to end the blight.

I hate it when people say this. The GW's first and foremost duty is to end the Blight, yes. If the Blights are ended and the darkspawn become intelligent and enough of them decide to attack the surface to be a huge problem will the GW just sit back and say 'there's no Blight so this isn't our problem' or will they do what their order was designed to do and protect Thedas, as a whole, from the darkspawn by whatever means necessary? If the Warden does decide to spare the Architect and he comes through about not having any more Blights (which really doesn't seem all that difficult to do if he can guard the last two Old Gods and prevent searching darkspawn from reaching them or passing on the location for the GW to kill before they are tainted) then there job isn't over. They'll need to keep an eye on the darkspawn and, if they judge that the awakened darkspawn are a serious enough threat to humanity, take action.

Btw, who's to say that the architect wants more broodmothers? they have tons of them and he will be breaking his promise if he attempts to take human resources. And he is obviously afraid of the commander

We don't know how many they have and eventually those they do have will die and they'll need more. I don't think he ever promised NOT to take more and I'm sure he'd have the sense to do it discretely somewhere you're not paying attention to.

[sylvanaerie]

what is that part of the oath ? In peace vigilance? GWs fight the darkspawn no matter whether its a blight or not. The Calling is a perfect example. GWs go into the Deep Roads and commit suicide by darkspawn slayage. Most of the time there are no Blights so what do GWs do in their down time? throw luaus? Duncan even says "Gray wardens battle the darkspawn, exciting or no" not "Gray Wardens only worry about stopping the Blight."



For me helping the Architect is going against everything the GWs try to do. "So he wants to end the blights" and yea thats a good thing but in the interim of centuries between humanity has to deal with this guy making their opponents (who most often just stay in the deep roads coming up for occasional raids hence everyone's its not a real blight attitude in Origins) intelligent and murderous opponents who can think and strategize instead of just mindlessly follow whatever their instincts tell them.



Seems to me a better solution would be to actually HELP Orzammar deal with the darkspawn instead of helping the Architect and just turning a blind eye to the situation.

[Layn]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Seems to me a better solution would be to actually HELP Orzammar deal with the darkspawn instead of helping the Architect and just turning a blind eye to the situation.

blind eye?
sure, he gets to make his awakened darkspawn society and all, but that doesn't mean we don't get to kill any darkspawn that still shows itself to be hostile.

[sylvanaerie]

Crrash wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

Seems to me a better solution would be to actually HELP Orzammar deal with the darkspawn instead of helping the Architect and just turning a blind eye to the situation.

blind eye?
sure, he gets to make his awakened darkspawn society and all, but that doesn't mean we don't get to kill any darkspawn that still shows itself to be hostile.

Yes but now those hostile darkspawns can think and strategize (One of the problems with Ostagar is the AD was directing the fight and flanked the army before Loghain could do anything about it).  They all expected mindless hordes not a thinking being directing the horde.

Now we will have pockets of thinking Darkspawn leading their fellows similar to the Archdemon cause the mindless ones won't be sentient (and remember he can't innoculate every darkspawn) against people even when there aren't any blights.  So humanity is living in a constant state of Blight without the archdemon even being there.  Granted in smaller scale but they still can spread the taint, attack villages for raiding/breeding purposes.and wreak untold havoc.  Look at the havoc just the Mother caused (another of the Architect's experiments) and she was limited to Amaranthine.

Humanity are darkspawn prey.  I see nothing in the Architect's plan to help humanity,just free his fellows from the song.  His very actions against me (Killing/kidnapping wardens, experimenting on me and my companions, siccing his pet dragons on me) just screamed "Don't trust a word I say".

Also its brought up in the game that the GWs at the keep didn't sense the darkspawn ahead of time....why was that?  Perhaps there is something more sinister going on here that hasn't been revealed (or maybe I missed it in game).  Too many holes for my PC to deal with.  Just dealing with the enemies one on one, one at a time is all I can handle in the game.

*Edited cause I suck at expressing myself in text*

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 27 mars 2010 - 06:09 .

[Pauzed]

"Blight" is just a name that gets thrown around by humans for the most part when the Darkspawn come to the surface on mass. Which also has the effect of tainting/blighting the land. Between these so called Blights the humans/elves dont give a hoot about the Darkspawn its only the Dwarves that get stuck with the problem. And the Darkspawn only stay underground because of the call/song of the old god calling them to find it down there.



Theres two more Blights to go (Assuming seven Old Gods and we have had five Blights now). If they are both defeated by the Wardens there will be no song to entrance the Darkspawn anyway so they all wake up.



The Architects way will require farming crazy amounts of Warden blood likely to a point of taking more humans forcing them to take the joining and farm them for blood. Unless you think each Warden going to the local doctors and donating a pint every month or two will be enough (Or that the other Wardens would even do that). I can actually see the Architect seeing this issue and once he has a large enough force just going and tainting the last Old Gods either killing them or getting the Wardens to kill them to get rid of the song.



But the truly worrying point is either way it happens the call/song's controll isnt going to last forever and Darkspawn are still going to be tainted and they are still going to need new broodmothers sooner or later. (Unless they add in some magic way for the darkspawn to reproduce with each other.. even though all the ones Ive seen look male.. not counting broodmothers ofc). So at most its the end of the Archfiends, the "Blight" threat is still there if the Darkspawn decide they dont like living underground anymore.

[Ziggeh]

I spared the Architect because I figure it would help destroy the Darkspawn. We have no way of knowing (it would have been among my first questions!) what the darkspawn will want if they all became awakened, but even if they overcome the destructive element that seems to be their defining feature prior to it, they are still a parasitic race, feeding and procreating by death and capture. Peaceful coexistence is not, to my mind, possible.



And so the choice is to repeat the cycle (even passed blight seven, without these large culling of numbers they'd build up and become a menace) or break it and hope it works out better than before. After seeing the result of just a little intellegence: all out civil war, I figure the result of a full scale awakening (though I appreciate that involves a lot of Warden juice) would mean factions and infighting.



Now that you can work with. They stop being a single entity to crash against, their focus shifts. They can be fought in groups, played against one another and treated as more than an occasional threat by the surface, as their new individual goals and schemes will almost certainly lead to conflict above ground more often than every 500 years.



Added all up, small groups might be more effective fighting forces, but overall they become weaker as there is no overall any longer.

[The Other One]

ejoslin wrote...

I let him live. I don't know, this will sound bad, but I really didn't have enough information about him at all to make a real decision so I couldn't be bothered about either choice. The mother seemed to hate him, and so I figured why not make her mad before killing her.

Same here. I usually "take the high road" and try to be good to everyone (unless I'm going after a specific achievement).

But in my latest playthough (this morning), Sigrun wouldn't accept my decision and attacked us. I'm quite fond of Sigrun, and I'm very unhappy about how this turned out, so I'm going to replay from an earlier save so we can all live happily ever after. Sorry about that Mr. Architect.

[Addai]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

Added all up, small groups might be more effective fighting forces, but overall they become weaker as there is no overall any longer.

And when these smaller factions are able to unite under, say, their savior The Architect?  Congratulations, you've just helped your enemy organize and gain a significant morale boost.

[Addai]

darkshadow136 wrote...

I spared him he was born different then the other Darkspawn a mutant if you want to use the reference. He was an outcast of his own kind, and wanted co-existance, peace for his people, and freedom from the old gods. He just lacked the knowledge and people skills with other races in the beginning to show his peaceful motivations.

Where does it show he wants to co-exist?  He wants you as experimentation subjects and to help him defeat the Mother, sure...

[Costin_Razvan]

That is assuming they can unite all under his banner. Now that is REALLY stretching it out a lot. If the Mother is any example then one can figure that his plan will also involve a lot of Darkspawn fighting each other.

[sylvanaerie]

Oh goodie so while they have their civil wars we get caught in the middle (which is precisely the events of Awakening) The Hero of Ferelden isn't going to live forever. What are they going to do with the mess when the PC is dead and can no longer protect them?

[Default137]

I helped him.



Honestly, the ending to Awakening felt super rushed, and I was not given enough information to really say I could make a solid decision, I was expected to choose between the Architect, who I knew nothing about, other then he wanted to stop more Blights from happening, and just kill everyone, which from previous knowledge with Bioware games made me think one of his disciples would just pick up the torch and finish the work anyway.



And why wouldn't I side with him? Oh sure, he caused a Blight accidentally, but it wasn't like he tried to do it on purpose, he was trying to stop them altogether, and his reasoning didn't hold up very well. I don't really think the games show just how devastating a Blight really is, especially when left uncontained, I mean, look at just how bad Ferelden looked after you got the last ally, just before the Landsmeet, the entire country went black, and probably 3/4ths of the population was dead, or soon to be dead, Denerim was under siege, the gossips were saying people were leaving in droves, trying to escape to Orlais. Blights destroy EVERYTHING in their path, and if he can honestly stop them from happening, more power to him.



Honestly though, I doubt it will matter in the end, the Orlesian Warden ending suggest a blight will be hitting the Anderfels next, and all the foreshadowing of the First Warden supporting us, because he wanted nobility to see Wardens could be nobles, so he could take over the kingdom, and all the talks of going ons in the Anderfels, and I think we will be heading their next, and possibly spar off with the First Warden, since he seems like an ass.

[Costin_Razvan]

Arguable, The only reason the surface got caught in the Civil War in Awakening was because the Architect sent his darkspawn to Vigil's Keep and that made the mother realize what he was after.



I would also like to argue that it WOULD be better for the surface if the Darkspawn would attack constantly rather then just one big war once in a few centuries. Perhaps the humans would finally realize that they are a constant threat they can't just ignore as they currently do until a Blight happens.



Even Human and Elven Grey Wardens don't care all that much with dealing with the Darkspawn as a whole, yet they MUST be dealt with. You CANNOT ignore them as they pose a real long term threat.