[quote]At least the darkspawn do what they do at the behest of a god, as opposed to humans who do all the same things for whatever reasons happen to be handy, usually personal gain. [/quote]Yeah, you can blame the Blight and roaming around looking for Old Gods on the Old Gods. The turning people into Broodmothers and killing those they encounter? So not the Old Gods fault.
[quote]The childer grubs were specifically a Mother creation, the Architect seems to be more benovelent than some so called "humans" in the game, Loghain, Bhelen, Branka, Zathrian, Anora, are all choices the player can make as to whether they live or die and yet a darkspawn who shows more compassion than any of the mentioned individuals would be killed on sight. [/quote]The Mother didn't 'create' them: she birthed them. The Mother did not demonstrate that she will have hurlocks, genlocks, or sheiks but rather the 'Children' which everyone agreed were an abomination. The Mother is insane and can't keep calm for longer than five minutes, it seems, so I kind of doubt she genetically engineered herself to give birth to the 'Children' and rather they are the natural result of being 'awakened.' Since actual GW either can't reproduce or do so with great difficulty, it makes sense that Broodmother's reproduction would be effected. And the Messenger shows no sign of compassion until the epilogue anyway so since no one makes the connection, it's probably metagaming for the Warden to know what happened to him. He agrees to fight with you in the city if that's the condition you have for letting him live but self-preservation does not equal intelligence.
[quote]Utha donated her blood, Serrani i think is willing to become the next brood mother, so with the Architect's guidance, Serrani as the brood mother i think the darkspawn are in for an evolutionary turn. [/quote]I don't think we have any evidence of that and certainly no evidence that either Utha or Seranni are mentally sound. Besides, since I highly doubt sanity has any impract on what kind of offspring you produce, her being sane wouldn't mean she still wouldn't produce the 'Children' or perhaps the elven equivalent if the Mother was once a different race. And it's muh easier to say 'I believe in what you're doing' to the Architect then 'I am willing to become a Broodmother myself.'
[quote]Who is to say that if the taint is contagious as it is then why is it that the Wardens are tainted but still not infectious, could it be because of the joining? The darkspawn taint can not be as contagious as it is made out to be because in Orgins you have party members covered in darkspawn blood for the duration of the game and not a single one has turned yet. [/quote]Oh, that is a point. We know that being 'awakened' doesn't completely stop the spread f the taint as the Messenger still spreads it but it seems the spread isn't as widespread as it should be or else people would make the connection that everyone infected was helped by the mysterious cloaked traveller. And originally your companions WERE suppsoed to be tainted and go through the Joining but, like many other things, it was cut for time so the characters had plot immunity.
[quote]Really? Bregan ( Commander of the Grey in Orlais btw ) sided with him until the Architect killed Genevieve and that was with the Architect planning to turn everyone into Wardens not like now where he merely needs Grey Warden Blood. Utha did the same. [/quote]
First of all, I've yet to see any evidence of Utha being even remotely sane and she'll clearly turning into a ghoul. Remember how sane Tamlen was? Or Ruck? And look how well siding with the Architect and letting him live in the Calling worked. We had another Blight and all of that mess with Amaranthine and the Mother. And what do we have to show for it besides a lot of death, destruction, kidnapped and experimented on GW? A few intelligent darkspawn, only one of which has actually shown any decencyin the entire game.
[quote]Duncan would not have joined Architect if he had similar goals like in the Calling but you can bet he would have allied him if presented with the offer you are presented in Awakening. [/quote]I'm not so sure. A big reason for allying with him then was that he promised his help defeating the Mother. The Mother, for all her intelligence and craziness, was just a Broodmother and killing her wasn't any harder than killing Laryn in the first game. It wasn't the easiest thing in the world, granted, and once she picked up my companions and held them immobile while she attacked them they were pretty much guarenteed to be taken out of the fight but it was quite doable and if anyone had any ranged attacks (or was a ranger and could throw bears, wolves, and spiders at her) then she couldn't even attack back.
Besides, Duncans goals appeared to be 1) stop the Blight 2) make sure we're not kicked out of Ferlden again and have enough people to do our jobs 3) kill darkspawn 4) everything else Even if he did initially side with the Architect, there was no way he'd let him live after realizing he started the Fifth Blight. Another compelling reason Duncan would have for not siding with him is that he was around during the events of the Calling and knows just how insane and devastating the Architects plans can get. Just because he might have SAID hs goals had changed (because you know Duncan would have asked) does not mean that he would have been being honest.
[quote]A grey warden isn't meant to empathise or give darkspawn a chance, they are unworthy of trust or life and deserve only to be eradicated. They have not provided thedas with any reason to tolerate their existance and i doubt they will in the future. [/quote]Grey Wardens are not supposed to help darkspawn. They are supposed to kill them. That is kind of in the job description. Individuals like Utha and maybe you might decide not to kill them, but that is your decision as individuals and not as Grey Wardens as the order doesn't even remotely approve. GW are not called upon to be saints. They aren't required to give everyone a chance and show infinite mercy and compassion and no one expects that from you (expect possibly Wynne). You are involved in a war against the darkspawn and there is nothing wrong with killing your enemies rather than agreeing to work with them. You might agree to anyway and it might pan out, but you're supposed to protect Thedas from the darkspawn not be the morality police.
[quote]Well on that who can say, we don't have nearly enough to go on there. We have exactly one Darkspawn going bonkers and one becoming Batman, hard to say how it'll pan out when more and more start being created. [/quote]I figured that the Architect learned his lesson from the Withered and singled out the most helpful darkspawn he could find and sent him becuase if he couldn't soften the GWs before he was about to actually talk to them and propose an alliance than no one could.
[quote]Killing all darkspawn even when you don't have to is the shortcut. It's the easy choice. GW arenot inherently moral creatures. [/quote]Is it really the shortcut and the easy choice? There are a LOT of darkspawn and they can reproduce very quickly. Even if you manage to wipe out all but one they could still create and army of Broodmothers and quickly rebuild their race. A lot of this discussion, especially a few pages back, wasn't on the morality of the Architect or whether we had the right to wipe out the darkspawn but on whether it was practical to wipe them all out or if we'd need to settle on a compromise. If it IS feasible to kill them all and GW are not called upon to be moral (and they really aren't) then what justification is there not to kill them all and remove a known threat? Morality? You just said that it was not an issue.
[quote]His stated intent is to have 'peaceful coexistance' ... but does he really believe that humanity/elves/dwarves will accept that? If not-how does he intend to force that issue? [/quote]I don't think he really thought about that. He doesn't understand humans enough to realize darkspawn converging on a GW stronghold - even if it wasn't a sneak attack - would provoke hostilitiese or that knocking people out and stealing their blood before locking them in cages would provoke escape attempts and more hostilities. He really should ask Utha or Seranni for some tips on how to relate to non-darkspawn because he kind of fails at it.
[quote]In the Calling he planned mass genocide himself. He was going to force the Joining on all living things, and then out of the relatively few that survived, advance their Taint to where they were like Utha is in the game. [/quote]I still don't understand how he could have even begun to think that was a good idea. Say he succeeded and, despite heavy casualties, Thedas was populated soley by GW. Not only would they all be gunning for him but they wouldn't be able to reproduce so they'd die out after one generation and so his darkspawn would die out shortly after that. I suppose that's one way to achieve a lasting peace...
[quote]The problem is that, inorder to make all of the darkspawn rational creatures he needs greywarden blood. He wishes peace but at the same time needs our blood to create the peace. Its a peculiar thing. [/quote]It's even stranger because if there was peace and people became convinced that the darkspawn were no longer anything they had to protect themselves against, there would be no more GW. The Mother showed that Broodmothers with GW blood do not spawn nomal darkspawn so Broodmothers would have to be kept mindless - which would probably be kinder for them - and each darkspawn would have to be 'awakened' individually. That's a lot of GW blood required and I can't see people sacrificing as much as they have to to become GW and possibly dying in the process just to serve as a bloodbank.
Modifié par Sarah1281, 28 mars 2010 - 05:15 .
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