1316 réponses à ce sujet

[Darkannex]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Darkannex : Your solution is to not even try peace? I agree that if the Darkspawn with the Architect in the future prove to be a threat they need to be put down, but is the offer of peace not even worth considering?

Had I reason to believe peace possible, I might be considerate of it, yes. However the game gives too much in-game fodder to prove that the Architect is amoral (or rather unaware of morality in most senses). Would I trust him to be able to deliver a lasting peace? He is not an acknowledged lord who speaks for his people. I treat with him and I treat with an aberration who seeks to give humanity's greatest threat additional intelligence. I have seen the results of his experiments with my own eyes. 

He has given me NO reason to believe 1. his sincerity and 2. his ability to impose a peace of any real or lasting kind. 

[Addai]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Without a doubt there was a backup plan which invovled taking what they needed instead of asking for it. But it doesn't change the fact that the Wardens drew first blood.

First blood at the Keep??  How do you figure?  The Wardens were taken completely by surprise and overwhelmed.  It is apparent that the Architect not only carried out a surprise attack, that he was somehow blocking the Wardens' ability to sense the darkspawn approaching.

Likewise, he tries to kill you as you flee his lair, and only later when you've managed to survive and he's having more trouble with the Mother than he thought he would does he decide to approach you to be an ally against her.

At that point, if you ally against him with any other intent than to stab him in the back (which the game doesn't let you do), you must have- to borrow the Origins phrase- fallen off a cart of stupid.  Or be far more pie-in-the-sky hopeful about his promises than any military commander has a right to be.

[Layn]

Addai67 wrote...

At that point, if you ally against him with any other intent than to stab him in the back (which the game doesn't let you do), you must have- to borrow the Origins phrase- fallen off a cart of stupid.  Or be far more pie-in-the-sky hopeful about his promises than any military commander has a right to be.

well, i'm not a military commander. i'm (well my main warden in the game is) a noble who knows how to fight. She did everything up to the defeat of the archdemon her own way and because of that achievement was made warden commander. She doesn't claim to be a goodcommander... she just is in that position and continues doing things her way as always.
they don't agree with what she does? well, crap, don't put her in a position where she has to make tough decisions.

Modifié par Crrash, 29 mars 2010 - 05:06 .

[Addai]

Crrash wrote...
well, i'm not a military commander. i'm (well my main warden in the game is) a noble who knows how to fight. She did everything up to the defeat of the archdemon her own way and because of that achievement was made warden commander. She doesn't claim to be a goodcommander... she just is in that position and continues doing things her way as always.
they don't agree with what she does? well, crap, don't put her in a position where she has to make tough decisions.

By the time you reach Awakening, however, you have served as the commander not only of the Wardens but of Ferelden's armies.  Your martial training, especially as a noble, must have included more than blade work.

I guess one is free to RP a crappy Warden if they like, of course!

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Cause as much darkspawn death as i like to deal my charaters always play the noble hero and will go to great lengths to stop blights from happening and people from dying and if sparing the architect then i will.



Not Sparing him seems to make you a more of a cold blooded killer besides maybe we'll get to side with him when the blight goes to orlais! as it said on the end of the new commander story and plus that one darkspawn you see at amaranthine acted so human you know the architect was doing good.

[Efesell]

Look I'm trying to prevent Blights here not be awarded Grey Warden of the Month.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Efesell wrote...

Look I'm trying to prevent Blights here not be awarded Grey Warden of the Month.

Ha i agree killing every darkspawn in sight doesnt gotta be the only way screw what the wardens think back in orlais they wern't there making the choices you have to make.

[Efesell]

Incidentally, between this and the Dark Ritual I'm sort of becoming the Warden equivalent of the loose-cannon cop who always gets the "Yer outta control!" speech from the Chief.

[Layn]

Addai67 wrote...

By the time you reach Awakening, however, you have served as the commander not only of the Wardens but of Ferelden's armies.  Your martial training, especially as a noble, must have included more than blade work.

i led armies? i only remember leading my little group up to the archdemon while occasionally calling for backup from some armies. and as a noblewoman as far as i could gather the only reason she learned to fight was because she wanted to, and my apparently only did it for fun.

Addai67 wrote...
I guess one is free to RP a crappy Warden if they like, of course!

i sure am!

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Efesell wrote...

Incidentally, between this and the Dark Ritual I'm sort of becoming the Warden equivalent of the loose-cannon cop who always gets the "Yer outta control!" speech from the Chief.

Basically Bruce Willis from die hard lmao

[EmperorSahlertz]

Addai67 wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Without a doubt there was a backup plan which invovled taking what they needed instead of asking for it. But it doesn't change the fact that the Wardens drew first blood.

First blood at the Keep??  How do you figure?  The Wardens were taken completely by surprise and overwhelmed.  It is apparent that the Architect not only carried out a surprise attack, that he was somehow blocking the Wardens' ability to sense the darkspawn approaching.

You weren't there when the fighting started, neither was I, none of us know what really happened, all we've got is the testimony of the Architect. A creature having a hard time reading people and understanding human ways. I doubt he is actually lying.

Addai67 wrote...
Likewise, he tries to kill you as you flee his lair, and only later when you've managed to survive and he's having more trouble with the Mother than he thought he would does he decide to approach you to be an ally against her.

No he doesn't... He just doesn't stops his dragons from trying to munch you. Face it: He HAD to sic his pet dragons on you otherwise you would have tried to kill him right there.

Addai67 wrote...
At that point, if you ally against him with any other intent than to stab him in the back (which the game doesn't let you do), you must have- to borrow the Origins phrase- fallen off a cart of stupid.  Or be far more pie-in-the-sky hopeful about his promises than any military commander has a right to be.

Sadly I see your dooming the world to the cycle of Blights to be even more stupid, so apparently you are still on said cart..

[Efesell]

You weren't there when the fighting started, neither was I, none of us know what really happened, all we've got is the testimony of the Architect. A creature having a hard time reading people and understanding human ways. I doubt he is actually lying.

And uh.. what about the survivors of the keep claiming that they had been ambushed?

No he doesn't... He just doesn't stops his dragons from trying to munch you. Face it: He HAD to sic his pet dragons on you otherwise you would have tried to kill him right there.

I could more easily buy the 'trying to distract you' idea had he not stood there the entire time and watched.

[Addai]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

You weren't there when the fighting started, neither was I, none of us know what really happened, all we've got is the testimony of the Architect. A creature having a hard time reading people and understanding human ways. I doubt he is actually lying.

The seneschal was, and so were the fleeing soldiers you encounter as you first enter the Keep.  They would lie to you... why exactly?

No he doesn't... He just doesn't stops his dragons from trying to munch you. Face it: He HAD to sic his pet dragons on you otherwise you would have tried to kill him right there.

He is on an inaccessible balcony, and releases the dragon thralls, after looking at Velanna's sister to get her approval.

Honestly, this unshakeable faith in a talking darkspawn is touching, but entirely perplexing to me.

[Efesell]

I mean I spare the guy and don't quite understand the amount of blind trust you are giving him.

[Layn]

Efesell wrote...

And uh.. what about the survivors of the keep claiming that they had been ambushed?

weren't those who could know what exactly happened dead? they probably were the first to die

[Sarah1281]

You weren't there when the fighting started, neither was I, none of us know what really happened, all we've got is the testimony of the Architect. A creature having a hard time reading people and understanding human ways. I doubt he is actually lying.

The survivors at the Keep were there to see the attack. The Architect wasn't and unless some darkspawn ran away when you showed up (which I doubt because it was just you and one other girl and they had been demolishing everyone else in their way) he's just assuming that the Withered tried for peace. From what I saw of that particular darkspawn, I kind of doubt it.

i led armies? i only remember leading my little group up to the archdemon while occasionally calling for backup from some armies.

Gameplay-wise. Considering you took over Loghain's, job, though, you probably came up with the battle plan and positioned all the Mages, Dalish, Dwarves, and Redcliffe knights (I know Ostagar only had seven mages but the cut-scene showed quite a bit more coming to Denerim).

[Efesell]

Crrash wrote...

Efesell wrote...

And uh.. what about the survivors of the keep claiming that they had been ambushed?

weren't those who could know what exactly happened dead? they probably were the first to die

The guy you meet at the very start was there when the ambush began, he got the hell out of dodge when everyone started dieing.

[Layn]

Sarah1281 wrote...
Gameplay-wise. Considering you took over Loghain's, job, though, you probably came up with the battle plan and positioned all the Mages, Dalish, Dwarves, and Redcliffe knights (I know Ostagar only had seven mages but the cut-scene showed quite a bit more coming to Denerim).

my god! it's a wonder it all worked out somehow!

[Addai]

Crrash wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

By the time you reach Awakening, however, you have served as the commander not only of the Wardens but of Ferelden's armies.  Your martial training, especially as a noble, must have included more than blade work.

i led armies? i only remember leading my little group up to the archdemon while occasionally calling for backup from some armies. and as a noblewoman as far as i could gather the only reason she learned to fight was because she wanted to, and my apparently only did it for fun.

Addai67 wrote...
I guess one is free to RP a crappy Warden if they like, of course!

i sure am!

You are commissioned to lead Ferelden's armies in Loghain's place.  When you talk to Fergus post-coronation, he says "when I heard that my little sister was not only a Grey Warden, but leading Ferelden's armies..."

For not the first time in this thread, I have to say, "long live Loghain."  Never thought anything would induce me to that.  LOL

[Sarah1281]

my god! it's a wonder it all worked out somehow!

Well if Loghain's still alive it wouldn't be a problem as he would be MORE than happy to make sure you don't accidentally get Denerim destroyed. If not, Alistair doesn't really seem to know much about leading armies but I'm sure Eamon or Teagan would be glad to offer advice. Especially Teagan.

[EmperorSahlertz]

All the survivors never said they were ambushed.. They say: "They appeared out of nowhere!" I'm sorry to tell you but this might just as well mean that suddenly a bunch of Darkspawn is at the front gate and some douche inside the keep thought they were attacking.



And who the hell says I trust the Architect? I'm just saying I like his vision, and if he can bring it to frution I might as well let him try.

[Addai]

At the gate?? They appeared from under the Keep, which is why there are still some in the basements even after the Keep is secured.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Addai67 wrote...

At the gate?? They appeared from under the Keep, which is why there are still some in the basements even after the Keep is secured.

Kinda missing my point aren't you? But them appearing inside the keep just makes it even more plausible that the wardens thought it was an attack. The Darkspawn just took the quickest route from A to B which was the Deep Roads. Remember they got a hard time figuring humans out, they probably wouldn't have thought of the Wardens thinking of it as an attack.

[Efesell]

At best the Architect might have WANTED The Withered to take a more diplomatic route, but that is clearly not how it went down. There's really no reason to assume that it would.. since it was one disciple and your standard group of kill-happy rank and file darkspawn.

And the disciple was more than happy to sparta kick someone into spikes while talking about how he doesn't want too much violence..

[Addai]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

At the gate?? They appeared from under the Keep, which is why there are still some in the basements even after the Keep is secured.

Kinda missing my point aren't you? But them appearing inside the keep just makes it even more plausible that the wardens thought it was an attack. The Darkspawn just took the quickest route from A to B which was the Deep Roads. Remember they got a hard time figuring humans out, they probably wouldn't have thought of the Wardens thinking of it as an attack.

Then why not just retreat?