1316 réponses à ce sujet

[LadyDamodred]

The Calling and The Stolen Throne.



I really enjoyed them because of the way they fleshed out the characters, especially Loghain. It made me enjoy DAO in a whole other way knowing why he is the way he is.

[Raiil]

 I've spared him and killed him. I found that killing him was much more satisfactory.

One, I see no reason to 'need' to kill the Wardens. They are human. They have a form of the taint, which can be altered (re: Avernus) and have some odd properties, but in and of themselves, they don't corrupt other humans into Wardens or darkspawn simply by virtue of being in close proximity to them. They will die eventually, and if they had to be slain near the ends of their lives, when they hear the calling, I doubt few would run from it. But killing them where they stand? Not so much.

I don't completely believe the Architect. Obviously, he has his own agenda and his reasoning for doing so, and while I pity the intelligent darkspawn, they cannot live with humans, elves, or dwarves. If they could find some isolated island to repopulate without taking our women away, maybe, but that doesn't appear to be an option. At this time, it's a matter of survival of the fittest. The natural races of Thedas will be eradicated if the darkspawn were to co-exist, and no, I don't see that being a rational choice. It's very much an us vs them thing to me, and I will choose us every single time.

[tmelange]

Mavkiel wrote...

I spared him on my first run through. For the greater good. Let me explain..

If the darkspawn have a mind of their own, they are not able to be compelled by an arch demon. They will not feel an overwhelming need to come to the surface and kill everything. Also, with their newfound indepence we would likely see fragmentation of their leadership. This would in the end make them easier to slaughter.

So yes, I spared the architect, to aid me in my plans for committing genocide. After all, why would I want a species that needs brood mothers to live anyways? The new darkspawn could be friendly as kittens and I still would want to kill them all.

What I want to know is why the intelligent darkspawn are above ground now in the first place? If they are so rational, surely they can just go to wherever they want to go underground. Yet, here they are, ransacking Virgil's Keep, slaughtering farmers, terrorizing the city and kidnapping, killing and experimenting on gray wardens. It's because they need something from us. They are parasites. They will always need something we don't want to give them to prosper, either for reproduction, food, blood or whatever.

[tmelange]

FenrirAndvari wrote...

I killed him. If there is going to be anykind of savior for the Darkspawn it will be up to the child Morrigan gave birth too. At least when it come to my storyline I got going.

I certainly trust Morrigan's plan more than the Architect's...I think. LOL

[Mavkiel]

tmelange wrote...
What I want to know is why the intelligent darkspawn are above ground now in the first place? If they are so rational, surely they can just go to wherever they want to go underground. Yet, here they are, ransacking Virgil's Keep, slaughtering farmers, terrorizing the city and kidnapping, killing and experimenting on gray wardens. It's because they need something from us. They are parasites. They will always need something we don't want to give them to prosper, either for reproduction, food, blood or whatever.

One side is above ground to get warden blood. The other side is topside to mess with the other group and cause havoc. As you said, they will always be parasites, I just want them to have more leaders and more divison in their ranks. I would trust the mage guild/chantry/wardens to take care of any darkspawn leaders that show actual talent.

Modifié par Mavkiel, 20 mars 2010 - 05:42 .

[Robalicious_13]

tmelange wrote...

Robalicious_13 wrote...

I dunno, I'm kinda stuck on this choice too...

I just beat the game today for the 1st time and I spared him, but I began to think more and more about it.

Even if it ends blights and AD's controling hordes of mindless creatures, it puts in its place intelligent creatures instead. 

A mindless beast that follows commands from a Archdemon/God through song is bad enough, but a creature that is able to think for himself and is able to plan is scarier.

Whose to say that even if they do break free and there is no more blights, what will stop these new darkspawn from wanting revenge on those who killed their brothers and sisters by the thousands while they were unable to do nothing due to being mind controlled? I think many would be looking for revenge.

And these smart darkspawn will soon figure out ( cause their smart) that they will need this warden blood to keep the smart darkspawn race around, and that people ( females= Broomothers) will be needed to ensure this new smart race of darkspawn never die out. So while you think that a whole nation won't suffer at the hands of a blight, intime the whole world may face a threat that is allowed to grow, that is not just a mindless scary horde, but a horde of intelligent thinking monsters.

I think either way if we kill him or not he will be in the expansion ( he might of done the "Ultimate Sacrifice" achievment, but bioware will say that he was able to be imported into the Xpac, because somthing totally different happend.

Anyway, I guess we just have to wait and see.

BTW, I haven't read any of these books, but they sound pretty interesting, can anyone tell me how many there are, or where I can get them. I was pulled into the DA craze via DA:O, but the books sound like they'ed be cool!

Thanks

-Rob

Your reasoning is exactly the way I considered the issue. On the one hand is the blight, a danger that is defined, that we've dealt with successfully five times, that we managed to defeat last time with only 2 gray wardens. On the other hand you have intelligent darkspawn, who are parasitical to humans, carry corruption and taint with them wherever they go, and that not only eat humans, but also use them to breed. How is empowering them a sustainable option? LOL

There are two Dragon Age books: The Calling and ...the other one. LOL I forget the name. They are available at any bookstore, including amazon.com. Everyone seems to think they're great, or at least they add a lot to a person's understanding of the big picture.

Yeah. On my next playthrough, I think I will kill him. And thank you for teeling me about the books, I'll check that out!

[tmelange]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Wouldn't it be easier to kill them when they're mindless and without leadership at all? That's how they are most of the time and there are only two old gods left to corrupt, which typically take the darkspawns forever to find so if you're looking into genoicde, I don't think intelligent darkspawn are not the way to go. Sure the may have their disagreements, but if they realize someone is trying to destroy their entire species, they'll table them.

I would think so. Just look at the opening sequence of Awakening: a sneak attack by intelligent darkspawn that took everyone off guard. I'd rather slaughter tons of mindless cretins head-on than to have to engage in a game of wits with a foe that outnumbers me 100 to 1. LOL

[Robalicious_13]

LadyDamodred wrote...

The Calling and The Stolen Throne.

I really enjoyed them because of the way they fleshed out the characters, especially Loghain. It made me enjoy DAO in a whole other way knowing why he is the way he is.

And thanks to you too!

[KnightofPhoenix]

tmelange wrote...

Mavkiel wrote...

I spared him on my first run through. For the greater good. Let me explain..

If the darkspawn have a mind of their own, they are not able to be compelled by an arch demon. They will not feel an overwhelming need to come to the surface and kill everything. Also, with their newfound indepence we would likely see fragmentation of their leadership. This would in the end make them easier to slaughter.

So yes, I spared the architect, to aid me in my plans for committing genocide. After all, why would I want a species that needs brood mothers to live anyways? The new darkspawn could be friendly as kittens and I still would want to kill them all.

What I want to know is why the intelligent darkspawn are above ground now in the first place? If they are so rational, surely they can just go to wherever they want to go underground. Yet, here they are, ransacking Virgil's Keep, slaughtering farmers, terrorizing the city and kidnapping, killing and experimenting on gray wardens. It's because they need something from us. They are parasites. They will always need something we don't want to give them to prosper, either for reproduction, food, blood or whatever.

The one doing most of the killing is the Mother. She intends to kill the Wardens so they cannot be used by the Architect.
The Architect was on the surface because he needed Warden blood, and he needed to eliminate the Mother. But his forces weren't the cause of most of the destrcution (except the keep). It was mostly the mother.

And let's be real here. Human civilisations have always wanted something that other civilisations didn't want to give them, like land, riches, ressources, slaves...etc. We are not that better.

[tmelange]

Mavkiel wrote...

tmelange wrote...
What I want to know is why the intelligent darkspawn are above ground now in the first place? If they are so rational, surely they can just go to wherever they want to go underground. Yet, here they are, ransacking Virgil's Keep, slaughtering farmers, terrorizing the city and kidnapping, killing and experimenting on gray wardens. It's because they need something from us. They are parasites. They will always need something we don't want to give them to prosper, either for reproduction, food, blood or whatever.

One side is above ground to get warden blood. The other side is topside to mess with the other group and cause havoc. As you said, they will always be parasites, I just want them to have more leaders and more divison in their ranks. I would trust the mage guild/chantry/wardens to take care of any darkspawn leaders that show actual talent.

I think it could play out this way. I think it's a strategy that makes sense. Though, in-story, I've seen so much death I just don't want to do too much talking with darkspawn. LOL Sort of that, "Don't converse with Fade demons credo. It benefits naught, and there are too many pitfalls."

[tmelange]

Valentia X wrote...

 I've spared him and killed him. I found that killing him was much more satisfactory.

One, I see no reason to 'need' to kill the Wardens. They are human. They have a form of the taint, which can be altered (re: Avernus) and have some odd properties, but in and of themselves, they don't corrupt other humans into Wardens or darkspawn simply by virtue of being in close proximity to them. They will die eventually, and if they had to be slain near the ends of their lives, when they hear the calling, I doubt few would run from it. But killing them where they stand? Not so much.

I don't completely believe the Architect. Obviously, he has his own agenda and his reasoning for doing so, and while I pity the intelligent darkspawn, they cannot live with humans, elves, or dwarves. If they could find some isolated island to repopulate without taking our women away, maybe, but that doesn't appear to be an option. At this time, it's a matter of survival of the fittest. The natural races of Thedas will be eradicated if the darkspawn were to co-exist, and no, I don't see that being a rational choice. It's very much an us vs them thing to me, and I will choose us every single time.

I like your style. You're fierce. LOL

[Dave of Canada]

Let him free, my metagaming side wanted to kill him but he's charismatic and even though I knew what he was doing - I still felt like siding with him was a good thing, even if I knew it wasn't.

[Mavkiel]

Hmm one question though is it really only Old-Gods that can become arch demons? I have some doubts about it. After all arent old-gods simply really old dragons? We have already seen several fairly large dragons alive and well. If those could eventually become arch demons, we would be talking about a never ending cycle.



If on the other hand they cannot use the newer dragons, killing that darkspawn becomes much more attractive.

[Ash Wind]

Spared him... I guess I wanted to believe him, but still felt wrong in a sense.



LOVE that the Messenger becomes the Darkspawn Batman of Amaramthine

[tmelange]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

tmelange wrote...

Mavkiel wrote...

I spared him on my first run through. For the greater good. Let me explain..

If the darkspawn have a mind of their own, they are not able to be compelled by an arch demon. They will not feel an overwhelming need to come to the surface and kill everything. Also, with their newfound indepence we would likely see fragmentation of their leadership. This would in the end make them easier to slaughter.

So yes, I spared the architect, to aid me in my plans for committing genocide. After all, why would I want a species that needs brood mothers to live anyways? The new darkspawn could be friendly as kittens and I still would want to kill them all.

What I want to know is why the intelligent darkspawn are above ground now in the first place? If they are so rational, surely they can just go to wherever they want to go underground. Yet, here they are, ransacking Virgil's Keep, slaughtering farmers, terrorizing the city and kidnapping, killing and experimenting on gray wardens. It's because they need something from us. They are parasites. They will always need something we don't want to give them to prosper, either for reproduction, food, blood or whatever.

The one doing most of the killing is the Mother. She intends to kill the Wardens so they cannot be used by the Architect.
The Architect was on the surface because he needed Warden blood, and he needed to eliminate the Mother. But his forces weren't the cause of most of the destrcution (except the keep). It was mostly the mother.

And let's be real here. Human civilisations have always wanted something that other civilisations didn't want to give them, like land, riches, ressources, slaves...etc. We are not that better.

I'm trying to think: the beginning part of Vigil's keep is intelligent darkspawn; the slaughter in the woods of the elves and caravans are intelligent darkspawn, with the added bonus of them being smart enough to write, and pit the elves against the humans; the siverite mine slaughter is intelligent dawkspawn from the Architect faction.

What's left is the blackmarsh and the deep roads. The blackmarsh was a fade issue, with one intelligent darkspawn working for mother. I don't remember who was responsible for the situation in the deep roads, the slaughter of the legion and the broodmother pit.

It just doesn't seem that the Architect faction has clean hands at all.

Modifié par tmelange, 20 mars 2010 - 06:19 .

[tmelange]

The architect looks to me like a cross between a darkspawn and an arcane horror. Maybe that has something to do with why he became intelligent...

[Dave of Canada]

tmelange wrote...

The architect looks to me like a cross between a darkspawn and an arcane horror. Maybe that has something to do with why he became intelligent...

An Arcane Horror mated with a Broodmother?

[KnightofPhoenix]

tmelange wrote...
I'm trying to think: the beginning part of Vigil's keep is intelligent darkspawn; the slaughter in the woods of the elves and caravans are intelligent darkspawn, with the added bonus of them being smart enough to write, and pit the elves against the humans; the siverite mine slaughter is intelligent dawkspawn from the Architect faction.

What's left is the blackmarsh and the deep roads. The blackmarsh was a fade issue, with one intelligent darkspawn working for mother. I don't remember who was responsible for the situation in the deep roads, the slaughter of the legion and the broodmother pit.

It just doesn't seem thar the Architect faction has clean hands at all.

The caravans wasn't them, but Velanna. But yes, they tricked her.

However, deap roads, the blackmarshes and the assault on Amaranthine and the Vigil was all the Mother. 
Plus, the rumors of new darkspawn terroriszing the countryside and amassing in Amarathine (the Children), is from the Mother's faction.

So while the Architect definately isn't innocent, he was far less destrcutive than the Mother.
He does say that he sent the Withered to negotiate, but it was the Wardens who wouldn't listen. Whether that is true or not is highly questionable. But I feel that he has little reason to lie about this. It is possible at least.

[Dave of Canada]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

He does say that he sent the Withered to negotiate, but it was the Wardens who wouldn't listen. Whether that is true or not is highly questionable. But I feel that he has little reason to lie about this. It is possible at least.

Well, sending in a huge task force from underground does look a little suspicious. I'd rather send in an unarmed messenger from the top.

[Sarah1281]

The problem with that is that these are Grey Wardens who don't realize darkspawn can even talk and certainly don't see a reason not to immediately kill the stray darkspawn so the message never would have been delivered that way.

[Mavkiel]

Sarah1281 wrote...

The problem with that is that these are Grey Wardens who don't realize darkspawn can even talk and certainly don't see a reason not to immediately kill the stray darkspawn so the message never would have been delivered that way.

How about kidnap a merchant, give him/her some gold for the hassle and ask him/her to arrange a meeting? Its a tad round about. But it would probably make the wardens a tad curious.

[Vicious]

I think it's very foolish to trust The Architect at all. He has the Darkspawn's interests in mind, not yours, not anyone else's. He may give you the basic idea behind his actions, but he's leaving all the juicy parts out - the parts that everyone is arguing about in this thread. [brood mothers, the intentions of an intelligent Darkspawn horde, his inability to control The Mother, etc]



And for those reasons I simply cannot let him carry out his plans. In the long run, I doubt it will matter - Valenna's sister was conspicuously absent in the final battle: there are plenty of intelligent Darkspawn out there still running around, SOMEONE will pick up where The Architect left off.





A great example is his laying siege to Vigil's Keep 'asking for help against the Mother' and then he excuses his actions because he 'doesn't know much of your kind.' Right, he doesn't know much of my kind, throwing out his interactions in the novels which I'm sure was a learning experience, he sure knew how to fool Valenna convincingly.





While I appreciate his being polite and meeting me face-to-face, unlike when I was met with Loghain, I could not find a single reason to allow The Architect to live.





From reading his laboratory notes, it was easy to see he had ZERO empathy. Put a creature like that in charge of an intelligent Darkspawn horde? Right in Ferelden? Like I said, I just can't see a reason to let him walk.

[Kelnuin]

Just a reminder to those who read DA: The Calling, the Architect already knows where the other Old Gods are located. The former Orleasian Warden Commander, that King Maric went into the Deep Roads after, told the Architect. I think the Architect is probably related to "The Origin of the Darkspawn". Whether it is the corruption of the Chantry's allegorical Maker's Golden City or some other cause.

[nranola]

I'm just curious... what decision did you guys make? Vigil's Keep or Amaranthine? Morrigan's Ritual or Ultimate Sacrifice? I have a theory swirling around in my head, and I want to confirm if it's accurate. xD

It just occured to me that this is another issue of making a decision with little to no knowledge of the consequences. Morrigan didn't give you all the details of the ritual either so you're taking a big risk by going through with it. For all we know Morrigan could be planning on controlling the darkspawn for her own whims. It's kind of the same with the Architect if you think of it that way. He could be preparing for a full-scale darkspawn invasion, or he could genuinely be trying to stop more destruction, or something else entirely.

Modifié par nranola, 20 mars 2010 - 08:46 .