1316 réponses à ce sujet

[krylo]

tmelange wrote...

 Dude, you should be a paragon. LOL

...And YOU should be an adult.

Also, if the proximity to darkspawn taints a god, and that's why the Architect needs to stay away from them, what would the continued proximity to intelligent darkspawn with their own goals and agendas do to humanity? How is that a good idea..

It's a better idea to deal with a slowly growing presence of intelligent darkspawn than to deal with all of them becoming suddenly intelligent all at once.  Confused, frightened, and in the middle of fighting humanity.  There would be absolutely no chance of peace.

The seventh blight would not end after the death of the last archdemon in such a scenario.  It wouldn't end until the people of Thedas and the Darkspawn were able to sit down and talk, or one side had completely wiped the other out.

Given our track record over the last however many millenia goes for fighting darkspawn--I'm not willing to say that the 'fair' races of Thedas are likely to win that confrontation.

The dwarves have lost all but two of their Thaigs, the first blight lasted for 90 years, the next three blights (2-4) each required grey wardens with the armies of entire nations at their back.  This last blight required an unseen unification in Ferelden between dalish, dwarves, magi, and ungifted humans--and it still consumed a quarter to half the country before it was stopped.  

Judging the danger of the blights by the fifth is a huge mistake.  We were fighting an old god of BEAUTY.  It was most likely the weakest of the old gods, if their names and realms of power have anything to do with their actual abilities--and this was the only Blight to be contained within a single country.

[tmelange]

Brockololly wrote...

krylo wrote...

we don't know that the intelligent darkspawn that the Architect seeks to free would be limited in number. Why would he only want to free some of his people?

He would want to free all of them, but the method for doing so is analogus to the warden's joining ritual.

You can't get every single darkspawn together and have them all drink grey warden blood all at once, even if you HAD that much magically prepared warden blood.  The logistics would be ridiculous even if the darkspawn could be reasoned with and convinced to drink of it willingly.

Therefore it would have to happen at a relatively controlled pace, compared to the sudden 'freeing' of the entire race all at one time at the apex of the seventh blight.

The thing here is do we consider the methods of the Architect from The Calling or from Awakening? In The Calling, the Architect's plan was to magically taint mass numbers of people in Thedas through magical means. Seeing as he is a quite skilled mage, what is to say that the Architect wouldn't try to brew up some sort of plan where he can mass "awaken" all of the darkspawn?  Speculation to be sure, but magic makes for a convenient excuse for things in fantasy worlds.

He sounds like really bad news in The Calling. LOL Bad darkspawn mage is BAD.

[tmelange]

krylo wrote...

*snip*

Judging the danger of the blights by the fifth is a huge mistake.  We were fighting an old god of BEAUTY.  It was most likely the weakest of the old gods, if their names and realms of power have anything to do with their actual abilities--and this was the only Blight to be contained within a single country.

I thought someone in another thread said that the 7th old god is the weakest. I got the impression that they are somehow in descending order of power.

In any event, you might well be right. I just wonder: what if we were to sit down with darkspawn (or we really can't sit down with them without risking taint, maybe yell across a field, lol), what would the accord look like? For a species that preys upon you, uses you for food, breeding etc., what stick would you be able to hold over their heads when you're outnumbered 100s to 1? 

How do you see us all living?

Modifié par tmelange, 20 mars 2010 - 06:04 .

[krylo]

It's obvious they don't NEED to feed on us to survive, else they all would have starved to death in the deep roads. There aren't enough dwarves to feed them all, and humans aren't disappearing at a high enough rate either. They can most likely eat any meat, and just don't really care if the living meat they are devouring was once sentient or not. Deep stalkers, nugs, brontos, whatever.

Breeding would be an issue (and would probably result in occassional darkspawn raids to take females), and, no, I don't see a true peace appearing. I do, however, see it as better to deal with the far more dangerous intelligent darkspawn when they're still in the deep roads, and aren't granted intelligence in the middle of a war with the fairer races.

That would be... very bad. Much worse than a blight.

The only reason we haven't been wiped out in the past 5 blights is because it ends when the Archdemon is destroyed. If this were not true, Thedas would have been lost to the first blight.

Modifié par krylo, 20 mars 2010 - 06:07 .

[BigEd420]

The Architect is a sociopathic Ass-Basger, he doesn't have any emotions what so ever. And can't understand them either. Letting him live would be very, very stupid. He's a monster, treating him any way differently would be silly, giving him an army of intelligent monsters is even more silly. Well, that's my opinion at least

[Kenshen]

I let him live because darkspawn have taken that next step of evolution which does make them dangerous but wouldn't it be better to have some kind of dialog open so you at least have some idea what they are doing. Keep your friends close but your enemies even closer.



The Architect might be the first smart darkspawn but who is to say he will be the last. I feel it would be best to at least start out peacefully then go from there. This doesn't mean I trust him that I do not. What was up with the clones of your party he made and I find it very curious that he had dragonkin in his base. What was he using them for I wonder. Could it be he is really searching for a faster way to find an old god? I don't know but I do see the reasons why people would just kill him.

[SSH83]

If the darkspawn are a "people" and not just mindless abominations, then butchering them would be genocide.  If we can make peace, then we would have given birth to a new race of sentient being.

However, if i really have my ways, I'd kill architect and use his research to free the darkspawns under my own supervision.  :3

[Dannyboy1186]

He wanted the darkspawn to be free from the Dark Gods and the fact he wanted peace. Since I like everyone to hold and sing I thought this was a step in the right direction.

[tmelange]

Dannyboy1186 wrote...

He wanted the darkspawn to be free from the Dark Gods and the fact he wanted peace. Since I like everyone to hold and sing I thought this was a step in the right direction.

What if the song is the only thing that holds darkspawn in check? Freeing the darkspawn from the song could be like opening the gates to hell.

Perhaps the issue is how do we keep the darkspawn in check, when we will lose all controls once they have completed the corruption of the last old god, not how to hasten the deterioration of the one thing that has kept the horde at bay...

The blight only happens when the song fails (is corrupted).

[Cairsoir]

I know I should have killed him, but after getting approval loss from all of my buddies (like it mattered anymore in that case >.<) and the fact I got my arse handed in by him caused me to later join up with him. Well, I figured that all allies are needed against that disgusting.. thing.



Though I must admit, if darkspawn did get freed from the Archdemons grasps, they'd be just more dangerous. Free mind is a dangerous weapon.

[Addai]

Darkspawn leader... dead. Simple, really.

[Thalorin1919]

If the darkspawn were free, MAYBE they wouldnt just run around killing people mindlessly.



I mean when you go to Amaranthine at the end of the game - that messenger that comes is scared out of his mind that your going to kill them. I think once they are intelligent, I think they will realize too that there kind doesnt want to wage war anymore.



I mean its probably a longshot. But on my first playthrough I sided with him.

[ObserverStatus]

I really don't care about the freedom of the darkspawn, I just don't want the archdemon to return.

[MBirkhofer]

tmelange wrote...

The plot reminded me of the ME Rachni situation but it lacked the key issue that the Rachni Queen wanted to find a world separate from humans to live in peace, AND the underlying premise that the Rachni aren't naturally antagonistic to others but for the corruption of their natural order.

I thought, perhaps, I had missed some key dialogue that explained how a human could think that intelligent darkspawn would be at all feasible. LOL 

The thing its.  its not .  Rachni in ME are natural creatures.  And more so, we are pretty clearly told their hostily was directly due to corruption by Soveriegn.

Darkspawn are lawful evil in DnD terms.  They are inherently tainted and corrupt the very earth and people around them. Peace is not possible when their mere existance poisons the minds and bodies of every living thing around them.  Thats not due to their actions from an Old gods song, but instead their very nature.
At best, the resistance makes them no longer lawful evil, but now chaotic evil serving no master.

At best it makes them comparible to a demon. At worst, they are still insane just like the mother.   She was a "freed" darkspawn, who was once human herself.  Do you really want more of her.
Kill them all. 

[Sarah1281]

A vigilante who inadvertantly infects many of those he helps with the taint. Even when the darkspawn try to help, they still corrupt what they come into contact with.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

A vigilante who inadvertantly infects many of those he helps with the taint. Even when the darkspawn try to help, they still corrupt what they come into contact with.

So the solution is to exterminate them, despite the fact that at least some of them can be benevolent?

[Sarah1281]

They certainly can't interact with non-darkspawn on a regular basis without this kind of thing happening. If the darkspawn aren't exterminated, they at least need to live apart from the rest of society.

[MBirkhofer]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

A vigilante who inadvertantly infects many of those he helps with the taint. Even when the darkspawn try to help, they still corrupt what they come into contact with.

So the solution is to exterminate them, despite the fact that at least some of them can be benevolent?

He wasn't benevolent. He was simply following your orders so you don't kill him.    his existance is still tainted. poisoning everything around him by just being there.    As well, potentially returning to canabalism the moment you let him go.  They do eat people still.



What was the deal with Utha?  I did not see any dialogue options regarding her in my run somehow.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

They certainly can't interact with non-darkspawn on a regular basis without this kind of thing happening. If the darkspawn aren't exterminated, they at least need to live apart from the rest of society.

The Qunari merchant delt with the Architect directly and he wasn't infected. The darkspawn messenger fought alongside us in Amaranthine and we weren't infected.

The taint can be contained. And some of form interaction can happen.

[KnightofPhoenix]

MBirkhofer wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

A vigilante who inadvertantly infects many of those he helps with the taint. Even when the darkspawn try to help, they still corrupt what they come into contact with.

So the solution is to exterminate them, despite the fact that at least some of them can be benevolent?

He wasn't benevolent. He was simply following your orders so you don't kill him.    his existance is still tainted. poisoning everything around him by just being there.    As well, potentially returning to canabalism the moment you let him go.  They do eat people still.

What?
Nobody told him to start helping humans after the war. The messenger did this on his own accord.

And they don't need to eat people. And it's not cannibalism if you eat another species.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 20 mars 2010 - 09:31 .

[MBirkhofer]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

MBirkhofer wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

A vigilante who inadvertantly infects many of those he helps with the taint. Even when the darkspawn try to help, they still corrupt what they come into contact with.

So the solution is to exterminate them, despite the fact that at least some of them can be benevolent?

He wasn't benevolent. He was simply following your orders so you don't kill him.    his existance is still tainted. poisoning everything around him by just being there.    As well, potentially returning to canabalism the moment you let him go.  They do eat people still.

What?
Nobody told him to start helping humans after the war. The messenger did this on his own accord.

And they don't need to eat people. And it's not cannibalism if you eat another species.

Yes after you are correct.
But also take note, it specifically says cases of darkspawn taint occur as well.    He's helping people, but still cuasing taint just be being there.
(despite that I exicuted him, and he still appearently was "let go"..)

[Sarah1281]

And it's not cannibalism if you eat another species.

Maybe not but as the other species, it's something we would like to avoid either way.

[KnightofPhoenix]

MBirkhofer wrote...
Yes after you are correct.
But also take note, it specifically says cases of darkspawn taint occur as well.    He's helping people, but still cuasing taint just be being there.
(despite that I exicuted him, and he still appearently was "let go"..)

It wasn't clear for me if he was responsable. I thought the taint was due to the man I freed from Kal'Hirol.
I will try to kill the guy and spare the messenger and see if the infection still happens.

But once again, I point to the Qunari merchant. He delt with the Architect directly and he wasn't infected.
So the infection can be avoided, while preservign some form of interaction.

I am not comfortable about exterminating a potentially intelligent and benevolent species becaue they can infect us to be honest.

[tmelange]

MBirkhofer wrote...

tmelange wrote...

The plot reminded me of the ME Rachni situation but it lacked the key issue that the Rachni Queen wanted to find a world separate from humans to live in peace, AND the underlying premise that the Rachni aren't naturally antagonistic to others but for the corruption of their natural order.

I thought, perhaps, I had missed some key dialogue that explained how a human could think that intelligent darkspawn would be at all feasible. LOL 

The thing its.  its not .  Rachni in ME are natural creatures.  And more so, we are pretty clearly told their hostily was directly due to corruption by Soveriegn.

Darkspawn are lawful evil in DnD terms.  They are inherently tainted and corrupt the very earth and people around them. Peace is not possible when their mere existance poisons the minds and bodies of every living thing around them.  Thats not due to their actions from an Old gods song, but instead their very nature.
At best, the resistance makes them no longer lawful evil, but now chaotic evil serving no master.

At best it makes them comparible to a demon. At worst, they are still insane just like the mother.   She was a "freed" darkspawn, who was once human herself.  Do you really want more of her.
Kill them all. 

I agree 100% with you. They are evil and corrupt and parasitic by nature. Even if you assume they have a right to "evolve", it would be at the expense of humanity. They would pollute the earth, and by their very numbers would overwhelm us. Where is the sense in enabling the destruction of your own species?

When the aliens land on earth, I'm going to make sure we don't send some of the people commenting on this thread to negotiate with them. LOL We might end up as the cows on the alien dairy farm.

Modifié par tmelange, 20 mars 2010 - 10:45 .