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Is ME3 going to require a constant Internet connection to play?


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#1
Ecael

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So, I did get a rather ambiguous answer on the other forums where my two posts are locked to be moved to Off-Topic:

http://social.biowar...00880/6#1809413

Don Moar wrote...

2. We're certainly not in a position to discuss what DRM we may or
may-not use on ME3.


My original post:

Honestly, I thought this garbage was isolated to Ubisoft, but now EA is starting to do the same with the Command and Conquer 4 release:

Command and Conquer forums
EA laces CC4 with Always-On DRM

"First thing to be clear about, Command & Conquer 4 does require you to be connected to the internet to play... So there ya go, no disc in the drive necessary, just activate your account with your serial key and presto, you're ready to go. It's actually much easier than before."

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As with Ubisoft and Assassin's Creed 2 (a single-player game that was ported to the PC), C&C 4 forces you to have an Internet connection at all times. If you lose connection for more than a few seconds, you are booted out of the game and left with your last autosave. Ubisoft remedied the autosave problem by making the game save constantly now (but not removing the internet-requiring DRM).

When Assassin's Creed 2 for PC was released, pirates and script kiddies went to work right away and DDoS'd the servers while cracking the internet connection requirement:
Ubisoft Attack

In other words, while some people who actually bought the game were unable to play because Ubisoft's servers couldn't handle the attack, people who got the game from 'alternative sources' were able to play without even paying for it. Thus, only the people who BOUGHT the game were punished by the DRM.

The fact that EA began implementing this into their games sets a troubling precedent for the future of all the game companies they publish for, including BioWare. What's even more troublesome is that they intend to include 'online services' in all their 2011 games and on:

John Schappert - "In fiscal 2011, every one of EA’s releases will have an online component, both downloadable content and online play"
Of course, Ubisoft designates their always-on Internet requirement as their 'Online Services Platform'.
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Mass Effect 1 used to have primitive SecuROM DRM, but it was later removed with its release on Steam. EA has does not hesitate to add copy protection to their software. Yet, Spore became one of the most illegally downloaded games of all time because of its own DRM. What is the point of putting such restrictions when people don't want to pay for and deal with the hassle?

Imagine if Microsoft or Adobe started making Microsoft Office or Adobe Photoshop require an online connection to prevent piracy - would customers appreciate the copy protection, or would they just download it or use a different program instead? Yes, I may be comparing essential applications to games, but to a software company it's all the same - we are the customers that buy their products.

The hope is not all bad, though. Steam (which is a less intrusive DRM, to be fair) recently dropped two of Ubisoft's games altogether for including the online requirement. Even the digital distributors are revolting against these strict DRM standards.
Steam dumps Ubisoft DRM games

Thus, the question goes out to the BioWare developers: If EA told you to include an always-on Internet component in the Cerberus Network, would you be forced to include it? And if you did, would you be able to justify it?
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Would we start getting screens that look similar to this?

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Just remember, even if the Cerberus Network is successful with paid DLC and may necessitate an Internet connection eventually, many people will still buy it because it's BioWare. Others, however, may resort to less... restrictive methods.

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#2
Don Moar

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Hey,



My answer in those other threads may have been ambiguous but it was honest.



ME3 is still a long way off and no decisions regarding DRM have been made yet, nor would I expect them to get made for some time. That being said, the customer response to DRM used on past BioWare and other products will factor into that decision. If you have any doubts, just consider that the customer response to the DRM used on ME1 (PC) influenced the DRM decision on ME2 (PC).





Don M

#3
Ecael

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Don Moar wrote...

Hey,

My answer in those other threads may have been ambiguous but it was honest.

ME3 is still a long way off and no decisions regarding DRM have been made yet, nor would I expect them to get made for some time. That being said, the customer response to DRM used on past BioWare and other products will factor into that decision. If you have any doubts, just consider that the customer response to the DRM used on ME1 (PC) influenced the DRM decision on ME2 (PC).

Don M

That's good to know that the customers (and BioWare themselves) can influence the usage of DRM, even when it comes to massive publishers like EA.
I appreciate the response!:innocent:

#4
Sblade

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Don Moar wrote...

Hey,

My answer in those other threads may have been ambiguous but it was honest.

ME3 is still a long way off and no decisions regarding DRM have been made yet, nor would I expect them to get made for some time. That being said, the customer response to DRM used on past BioWare and other products will factor into that decision. If you have any doubts, just consider that the customer response to the DRM used on ME1 (PC) influenced the DRM decision on ME2 (PC).


Don M


Good, then remember that the longest thread in the old boards is for complaining about the ME1 implementation (10 day auth)

About the permanent connection DRM, if the Mastering Chief is considering it, he may document himself about how Ubisoft´s DRM is shooting themselves in the foot.

I believe Bioware has enough bargain power and smart staff to not allow crazy scenarios like the one that has happened with Assasin´s Creed 2.

I will be surprised if next EA game has this type of DRM like in C&C 4.

#5
Guest_randumb vanguard_*

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hey a mod that isn't stanley woo!!!

havn't seen anyone like that around this section...

#6
Guest_Celrath_*

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The only way to have perfect DRM that can't be bypassed or hacked is to not store the game on the computer at all. Which I'm betting is the next step.

#7
Don Moar

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@Sblade:



As I said, I was already aware that ME1 (PC) DRM was a "bit" of a hot issue. Not only was I aware of it, I helped moderate some of those threads at that time. I'm also aware that we made some adjustments to how ME1 (PC) DRM would work prior to the game's release based on customer feedback at that time. I'm also aware that that incident played a role in our choice of DRM solutions on ME2 (PC).



Again, as I said, we're not in a position to be "considering" any particular DRM solution at this point.



Finally, as I said, when the time comes the customer response to past DRM on both BioWare and non-BioWare products will be considered in any decision we make.



(Didn't I already cover all that?)





Don M

#8
Panderfringe

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When you lose internet connection a Bioware hit squad will personally show up to your house and murder your dog.



If you do not have a dog one will be provided.

#9
Guest_randumb vanguard_*

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Panderfringe wrote...

When you lose internet connection a Bioware hit squad will personally show up to your house and murder your dog.

If you do not have a dog one will be provided.

Posted Image... what! no they wouldn't!! But if stanley woo can find my house then that means... no! It can't be...
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

#10
Ecael

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Don Moar wrote...

@Sblade:

As I said, I was already aware that ME1 (PC) DRM was a "bit" of a hot issue. Not only was I aware of it, I helped moderate some of those threads at that time. I'm also aware that we made some adjustments to how ME1 (PC) DRM would work prior to the game's release based on customer feedback at that time. I'm also aware that that incident played a role in our choice of DRM solutions on ME2 (PC).

Again, as I said, we're not in a position to be "considering" any particular DRM solution at this point.

Finally, as I said, when the time comes the customer response to past DRM on both BioWare and non-BioWare products will be considered in any decision we make.

(Didn't I already cover all that?)


Don M

If it came down to it, I wouldn't mind if it became a Steam-exclusive. I've already used Steam to purchase both ME1 and ME2.

#11
Homey C-Dawg

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No sale for me if it requires a constant internet connection.
Appreciate the response from Bioware. I understand you guys aren't thinking about ME3's DRM atm, but just throwing my opinion out there like everyone else for consideration.
C&C4 looked like an ok game, but I'd have bought it in a heartbeat if not for the constant internet connection thing. It's a shame because I'm a huge C&C fan. As a huge ME fan as well, I'd hate to pass up on ME3 for a reason that has nothing to do with game design, but I would just like C&C4.
Edit for clarity.

Modifié par Homey C-Dawg, 20 mars 2010 - 01:03 .


#12
Panderfringe

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Don Moar wrote...

Finally, as I said, when the time comes the customer response to past DRM on both BioWare and non-BioWare products will be considered in any decision we make.


Don M

We've already established the customer response is going to be reactionary and irrational. Taking it into account would be what we like to call a "really silly move."

Modifié par Panderfringe, 20 mars 2010 - 01:05 .


#13
generic username

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Why would anyone at EA think this is a good idea? Honestly?

I trust that Bioware wouldn't let this fly, I wouldn't be buying ME3 otherwise.

#14
Panderfringe

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generic username wrote...

Why would anyone at EA think this is a good idea? Honestly?


You have a large company, beholden to shareholders. These shareholders don't really know much about the effects of DRM policy on the end-user, and they don't really want to know better. These shareholders hear that video game piracy is a problem, they demand some way to at least attempt to prevent it.

Ta-da, there you have it.

#15
SithLordExarKun

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Oh god i hope not, this POS DRM treats genuine buyers like criminal scumbags while the pirates get to play the game for free and without issue.

I really hope they stop implementing the piece of Sh!t known as SecuCrap because if they do, i am going to Sh!t a brick.

.

Modifié par SithLordExarKun, 20 mars 2010 - 01:24 .


#16
Panderfringe

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SithLordExarKun wrote...

Oh god i hope not, this POS DRM treats genuine buyers like criminal scumbags while the pirates get to play the game for free and without issue.

I really hope they stop implementing the piece of Sh!t known as SecuCrap because if they do, i am going to Sh!t a brick.

.

let's be honest, most PC game owners are pirates. Like, really here, let's not pretend otherwise.

#17
Don Moar

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@Panderfringe:



I think we've established that the response of *some* customers will be reactionary and irrational. That doesn't necessarily make those responses wrong but you do need to make sure you're not giving those comments a disproportionate amount of weight.



As I said, I have confidence that when the time comes, we'll find a way that balances the needs of both BioWare and our customers.





Don M

#18
SithLordExarKun

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Panderfringe wrote...

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Oh god i hope not, this POS DRM treats genuine buyers like criminal scumbags while the pirates get to play the game for free and without issue.

I really hope they stop implementing the piece of Sh!t known as SecuCrap because if they do, i am going to Sh!t a brick.

.

let's be honest, most PC game owners are pirates. Like, really here, let's not pretend otherwise.

Right right. What about the PC players who frequently post on this forum that registered their game? What about me, that bought every game out there than pirate it? 

I don't call people who pirate their games gamers, i call them f@gz. Really there are just as many people who pirate on consoles as they do on PC.

#19
Rubbish Hero

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No, but you will be able to buy the a slightly different model, with shades, for $10.99.

#20
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I say DRM is the biggest and dumbest bull**** invented by the gaming industry.
Does anyone, ANYONE believe DRM makes a difference to piracy? Is anyone in the gaming industry honestly that naive that DRM will lessen piracy or even stop it?

Trust me, systems like this are a pain in the a-hole for honest gamers like us who actually buy their games, but for pirates? Nahhhh, they found a solution to DRM right after it got introduced. Every time the industry come with a new (sometimes ridiculous) anti-piracy method, the pirates will find a way to bypass it. They always will.

DRM is a waste of time and it only pisses honest games off.

PS: Thank the maker that I own ME1 and ME2 for the Xbox360. And when ME3 comes out, I'm going to buy that game for the Xbox360 too. So I don't have to worry about stupid DRM bullcrap.

Modifié par Luc0s, 20 mars 2010 - 01:56 .


#21
EatinMcRib

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I'm going to say this right now. If EA wants to sabotage ME3 with this nonce-sense, I will not buy it.

Will. Not. Buy. It.

Loyal paying customer, right here. Look in profile if thou doth not habeeb, in case those funny little icons below my photo don't do it for you. As legit as bread is sliced. But it doesn't matter. The suits will come up with whatever in order to do anything they want.

I guarantee you if the worst for ME3 does come to pass, that little "3" will not be among those little icons. If it does, I will probably be already dead by then, from eating my hat, plus keyboard, a million dicks, and a cold glass of arsenic.

Modifié par EatinMcRib, 20 mars 2010 - 02:08 .


#22
Forsakerr

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maybe some people pirate games but dont, i never did and i never will , i don't remember what game it was but i couldn't play the game because of stupid DRM and i had bought it ,took me over a week before the game company even replied to my mail and sent me a link where i could download a fix so i could play it , people who pirate games plays them without any problems while people who are like me and buy their games get boned .i m against pirating because it hurts small companies and i ve seen tons of companies get swallowed and disbanded by bigger ones or they just close



i play PC games since the 80s my first computer was an IBM PC junior who had a 8k of ram cartridge and every single time i played a game i either bought it or borrowed it from a friend but never downloaded any off internet (exept the digital versions sold by Steam or something alike or bought it from the company who made it itself)





since internet is not 100% viable losing connection to the net would prevent me from playing a game i bought then hell yeah im against that kind of crap



2-3 days ago i saw review about silent hunter 5 that some guy from around here did and he could nt play because ubisoft's servers were down ,ended up the game sucked anyways but still, i dont want that kind of stuff in the games i want to buy if they do then i ll skip them and they will lose my support and wont buy from them anymore

#23
SithLordExarKun

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DRM actually encourages people to pirate.

#24
GreedIsNoException

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I think adding that to any game is plain stupid. What about The Old Republic? DA:O 2? These will also make appearance around the same time as ME3... Adding something to try and avoid piracy when it actually increases piracy. That's what this is.

#25
Loerwyn

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Really? I can't say that UbiSoft's DRM has driven me to pirate The Settlers 7. I, instead, have decided that I'll save myself over £20 and buy The Settlers 6 instead.

I have no patience for people who pirate a game because of DRM. Why? It's making the problem worse. Let's say you have Game 1, and they release it. Game 1 gets pirated and so when Game 2 comes out they add a disc check. Very quickly it's broken so on Game 3 they add an online authentication, and then that's broken. Game 4 is a tougher online authentication, and that's broken. Finally we come to Game 5 which needs a constant net connection, and then that's broken. What's next? It does my tree in when pirates complain about DRM - If they didn't pirate in the first place the chances are it might not be anywhere near as dire a situation as it is.

Pirate a game and make the problem worse. Buy the game and hope to the Maker that it doesn't.