200 réponses à ce sujet

[Chaos-fusion]

Hmm, fair enough then. But then, what is so special about Half Life 2? That seems to have as much adoration, but that was Half Life 1 with better graphics, and a nice physics thing going.



But I will put this down to the fact I didn't play it until it had been out for years.

[Leinadi]

Baldurs Gate 2. Still my second fav Bioware game, but eh. The game had two major good points to it afaik. Occasionally very fun encounters, and a great explorative feel during the first part of the game. Exploration is aided by a wonderful ambience in Ahtkatla and other areas.
But once you leave that behind? Boredom abound. Felt the characters were all over the place in terms of quality (and never really going beyond decent) and story wasn't particularly interesting, though somewhat saved by Irenicus' great voiceactor. Choices are extremely lacking.

Bioshock. A great visual design, might be one of my personal favs actually. But the gameplay... oh lord, the gameplay. It sucked so bad. Someone said watered down System Shock 2, and that's really how it felt. Extremely lacking.

Fallout 2. Yes, it was larger than the first game and had some engine improvements but that's pretty much it. The internal consistancy was shot to hell, the game is littered by lame pop-culture jokes, combat design had gone from alright (in F1)  to terrible. The overall quality of locations was completely all over the place. Still a decent sandboxy game with some great options here and there but it was the one game that proved to me that more isn't always better.

There are many others, but those  always comes to mind for me when discussing this topic. And I still like BG2 and F2 quite a bit, but eh...

Modifié par Leinadi, 21 mars 2010 - 10:23 .

[Loerwyn]

MrHimuraChan wrote...

Half-life 2 was (is) all about the physics. Simple things like balancing a wooden rod on top of a brick were impossible untill then. The havok engine (wich is common today) was first used in HL2. And also the graphics wich were incredibly good for a game that was not that heavy on the system (very well coded).

No, it really, really wasn't the first game to use Havok. HL2 was 2004, Uru (just one game that uses it) was 2003. Valve also took the Havok engine and heavily modified it.
The Source engine remains one of the most efficient engines currently in use, and the modified Havok engine used by Source is supposed to be one of the most realistic in use.

[Seagloom]

MerinTB wrote...

Seagloom wrote...
Where is your Last Stand critique? Yeesh... I didn't enjoy that movie.

I'll reply more to you later on that other stuff - but here's the link to my review:
http://ingenre.com/2...the-last-stand/

It originally appeared on Mania.com

I read it. It wasn't nearly as long as your parenthesis sidebars implied. I guess reading isn't high up on most people's list these days though. I missed most of the second X-Men movie, but I saw the first and third, and thought some of your points were spot on. The movie is hazy in my memory now so I can't remember everything to form a solid opinion on some of the things you brought up. That movie was a travesty. If X-Men Origins: Wolverine has any purpose for its existence, it's probably to make Last Stand seem slightly better.

Modifié par Seagloom, 21 mars 2010 - 10:49 .

[Chaos-fusion]

MrHimuraChan wrote...

Half-life 2 was (is) all about the physics. Simple things like balancing a wooden rod on top of a brick were impossible untill then. The havok engine (wich is common today) was first used in HL2. And also the graphics wich were incredibly good for a game that was not that heavy on the system (very well coded).

Ah, that would be why I feel it's overrated. Physics are nice and all, but it's ultimately useless fluff when the rest of the game isn't fun. And I didn't find either HL 1 or 2 particularly fun. But, no matter. Others enjoy them so much, which is great.

[Loerwyn]

Seagloom wrote...

I read it. It wasn't nearly as long as your parenthesis sidebars implied. I guess reading isn't high up on most people's list these days though. I missed most of the second X-Men movie, but I saw the first and third, and thought some of that was spot on. That movie was a travesty. If X-Men Origins: Wolverine has any purpose for its existence, it's probably to make Last Stand seem slightly better.

Wolverine was great.
It had Wade Wilson, it ruled for that reason alone.

[Seagloom]

I will respectfully disagree. >.>

[Xephyr829]

Halo Series

God of War Series

MW2

[Godak]

Seagloom wrote...

I will respectfully disagree. >.>

I disagree that Origins was good, but I think it's better than X3.

My ranking: X2, X, XO:W, X3.

[Wrath of Bong]

I like to add about "Halo 2 in 2004 is the first time many people played online multiplayer." Well, maybe for you console gamers, who finds it hard or didn't have the system to set up a PC to play multiplayer but as someone already mentioned Counterstrike was popular online before Halo 2 and before that the Quake series, where you can "jump", more specifically, rocket-jump all over the map.



As for the most overrated game: Metal Gear Solid 4. The reasons:



* It has a clusterf**k storyline because it as to squeeze in all that happened in the first three MGS games and contains plentiful of Japanese melodrama. Why on Earth they brought back Raiden, no one likes him. Plus added useless characters like Johnny.

* You watch the game more than playing. I know that's similar with the other MGS games but it more worse in MGS 4.



Also, MGS 3 is also overrated, for several reasons but mostly because you control Raiden most the time.

[Darth-Mandalore]

MerinTB wrote...

No, that's it -

for "long past the game's prime fanatical fanbase" I'm adding:

Baldur's Gate 2 (a game I really do like)
Planescape: Torment
Deus Ex

Too many people bring up the latter two games as if they were the gospel on CRPGs and shoot down those who dare to even suggest they didn't play them. It's gotten very annoying.

Lets put aside Planescape: Torment as I can understand your gripe there, it is one of my favorite games but I do understand why some people dont like it.

However Deus Ex is another story, I can understand that if you played the game the way it was meant to be played and still diddnt like it, it is your opinion after all, but what I cant stand is people bashing the game because a) they diddnt understand the point of the game or havent actually played the game.

Pretty much everyone I know of who played the game the way it was meant to be played loved it, the only people I have ever seen complain about the game either havent played it (like yourself) or use the same excuse again and again and again, "Oh the combat is terrible, I tried to shoot my way through Liberty Island and got my arse handed to me", if this is the way you are playing then I hate to say it but you are doing it wrong, Deus Ex is not your standard FPS, you cant just hope to blast your way through with superior firepower, the game forces you to think about your situation and try to find other solutions to complete the mission while trying to manage the resources you have on hand, I myself prefer to tackle the Liberty Island mission without even firing a shot, I will admit that the first mission doesnt leave the best first impression, it was only after I beat the Liberty Island mission that I saw how great the game was.

Now I dont care if you dont like the game but you cannot call a game overrated if you havent played it or dont know how to play it. To this day there hasnt been any FPS games that have offered the same experience as Deus Ex, now days it is mostly linear rush in guns blazing games that dominate the FPS genre. Ever since I have played Deus Ex I have been looking for another game like it but none have come along. 

[Darth-Mandalore]

Wrath of Bong wrote...

I like to add about "Halo 2 in 2004 is the first time many people played online multiplayer." Well, maybe for you console gamers, who finds it hard or didn't have the system to set up a PC to play multiplayer but as someone already mentioned Counterstrike was popular online before Halo 2 and before that the Quake series, where you can "jump", more specifically, rocket-jump all over the map.

As for the most overrated game: Metal Gear Solid 4. The reasons:

* It has a clusterf**k storyline because it as to squeeze in all that happened in the first three MGS games and contains plentiful of Japanese melodrama. Why on Earth they brought back Raiden, no one likes him. Plus added useless characters like Johnny.
* You watch the game more than playing. I know that's similar with the other MGS games but it more worse in MGS 4.

Also, MGS 3 is also overrated, for several reasons but mostly because you control Raiden most the time.

Hey since you love Raiden so much dont forget Metal Gear Solid: Rising is comming out and it will be chocked full of the masochistic emo goodness that is Raiden.

Also I think you mean MGS2 not MGS3, although I will admit MGS2 had its moments.

[Wrath of Bong]

Oh, I will buy MSG: Rising and use the disc as a butt-stratcher. While, I use the FFXIII disc for the other cheek,
Oops, you're right, I mean to say MGS2. I love MGS3 from the story, to the epic boss fights and how there is no Raiden in the game.

I disargee with BG2, Planescape: Torment and Deus Ex being overrated. But since MerinTB seems to be more into JRPGs and they are so innovative, so who am I to say BG2, Planescape and Deus Ex are not overrated.

Darth-Mandalore, you were kind enough to recommend me Metal Gear Solid: Rising, I suggest you try Deus Ex: Invisible War. You will have a blast! Meaning, you will blast your PC to hell for ever having install that car wreck.

Modifié par Wrath of Bong, 22 mars 2010 - 10:06 .

[MerinTB]

Wrath of Bong wrote...
I disargee with BG2, Planescape: Torment and Deus Ex being overrated. But since MerinTB seems to be more into JRPGs and they are so innovative, so who am I to say BG2, Planescape and Deus Ex are not overrated.

Wow, that's just  flat-out wrong.  This is someone who knows nothing about me and makes a huge assumption.

I'm a PC Gamer, first and foremost.  With a few very rare exceptions, I prefer to get my games on the computer.  The PC is not a place to get JRPGs.

Outside of an NES that was an X-Mas present, for which I never got a single game beyond the Zelda it came with (and I never finished that), a SNES I bought during Advanced Training (the part of your military training for your MOS after Basic Training) with my roommate to kill downtime (which when we bought off of a guy from a previous class who was leaving came with Spider-Man Maximum Carnage, X-Men: Children of the Atom, and about 6 sports games - and those were the only games I owned for that system), and a GBA I won while I worked at EB Games several years ago (for which I also won several "classic games" like Zelda, Ice Climber, etc. - and only bought Golden Sun and Tactics Advanced based on my boss's recommendations) - the only consoles I've bought are XBOX's, which haven't been, until recently, any place to find JRPGs.

The JRPGs I've played in my life include Final Fantasy 3/6, Final Fantasy 7, Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced, and Golden Sun.   And a smidgen of others I've tried maybe an hours worth of or so (like Lost Odyssey or FF 8) that I never got into nor finished.  I don't know if Sudeki counts as a JRPG, probably does, but I probably got about 10 hours into that game before getting bored.

The "western" CRPGs I've played start with Ultima 1 and Wizardry 1 and continue on up to (I have it sitting here, I just haven't opened it yet) Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening.  They are far too numerous to mention.

My favorite CRPGs include Freedom Force, VTM: Bloodlines and Dragon Age.  Not one of those is a JRPG.

The fact that I defend FF XIII from those who seem hellbent on hating JRPGs (and that I disagree with those who ARE FANS of Final Fantasy in general but are very disappointed in FF XIII) doesn't mean that I prefer JRPGs.

But nice strawman combined with poisoning of the well.  Please try again with your next post a new logical fallacy, perhaps a false dichotomy - you could claim that you either like Deus Ex or you like Final Fantasy and there's no in-between.  See how that one works for you.

Darth-Mandalore wrote...
Now I dont care if you dont like the game but you cannot call a game
overrated if you havent played it or dont know how to play it. To this
day there hasnt been any FPS games that have offered the same experience
as Deus Ex, now days it is mostly linear rush in guns blazing games
that dominate the FPS genre. Ever since I have played Deus Ex I have
been looking for another game like it but none have come along.

For a game to be considered overrated (and this is almost entirely subjective call, meaning it is basically opinion) means for it to get more hype or praise than it deserves.

My saying that Deus Ex or Planescape: Torment "get more praise than they deserve" is based on what I said - "Too many people bring up the latter two games as if they were the gospel
on CRPGs and shoot down those who dare to even suggest they didn't play
them. It's gotten very annoying."
That's not me saying the games are good or bad -
it's saying that people, like you, who claim that (paraphrasing) "the only reason you can dislike Deus Ex is because you played the game wrong" are annoying.  Why can't someone dislike Deus Ex and still have played it right?
Would it help you if I said the biggest hurdle to me even trying that game is that I don't like modern warfare games, military games, or spy/espionage games?  Deus Ex always struck me as some kind of FPS / Action RPG hybrid that was grounded in a near-futuristic miltiary/spy story - it's really not my thing.  I don't like FPS as a general rule, and I don't like military/spy/guns games.
There are some glaring exceptions in stuff like Mass Effect or (yes I'm going to say it) Halo, but there are usually specific reasons for that (Halo is more space / sci-fi than military AND I played 1 and 2 with my bro-in-law on cooperative the whole way through, and THAT made the FPS aspect bearable - plus I loved driving the vehicles while he did the killing, so...)

Deus Ex (and the others I listed) may indeed be grand examples of their genres / styles - but no game is so good that is deserves people telling others "if you didn't like it, there's something wrong with you" -
that statement makes those games (and ANY games) overrated.

Modifié par MerinTB, 22 mars 2010 - 04:02 .

[Bigchris4747]

Trash Talk ^

[Wrath of Bong]

MerinTB wrote...

Wrath of Bong wrote...
I disargee with BG2, Planescape: Torment and Deus Ex being overrated. But since MerinTB seems to be more into JRPGs and they are so innovative, so who am I to say BG2, Planescape and Deus Ex are not overrated.

Wow, that's just  flat-out wrong.  This is someone who knows nothing about me and makes a huge assumption.

I'm a PC Gamer, first and foremost.  With a few very rare exceptions, I prefer to get my games on the computer.  The PC is not a place to get JRPGs.

Outside of an NES that was an X-Mas present, for which I never got a single game beyond the Zelda it came with (and I never finished that), a SNES I bought during Advanced Training (the part of your military training for your MOS after Basic Training) with my roommate to kill downtime (which when we bought off of a guy from a previous class who was leaving came with Spider-Man Maximum Carnage, X-Men: Children of the Atom, and about 6 sports games - and those were the only games I owned for that system), and a GBA I won while I worked at EB Games several years ago (for which I also won several "classic games" like Zelda, Ice Climber, etc. - and only bought Golden Sun and Tactics Advanced based on my boss's recommendations) - the only consoles I've bought are XBOX's, which haven't been, until recently, any place to find JRPGs.

The JRPGs I've played in my life include Final Fantasy 3/6, Final Fantasy 7, Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced, and Golden Sun.   And a smidgen of others I've tried maybe an hours worth of or so (like Lost Odyssey or FF 8) that I never got into nor finished.  I don't know if Sudeki counts as a JRPG, probably does, but I probably got about 10 hours into that game before getting bored.

The "western" CRPGs I've played start with Ultima 1 and Wizardry 1 and continue on up to (I have it sitting here, I just haven't opened it yet) Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening.  They are far too numerous to mention.

My favorite CRPGs include Freedom Force, VTM: Bloodlines and Dragon Age.  Not one of those is a JRPG.

The fact that I defend FF XIII from those who seem hellbent on hating JRPGs (and that I disagree with those who ARE FANS of Final Fantasy in general but are very disappointed in FF XIII) doesn't mean that I prefer JRPGs.

But nice strawman combined with poisoning of the well.  Please try again with your next post a new logical fallacy, perhaps a false dichotomy - you could claim that you either like Deus Ex or you like Final Fantasy and there's no in-between.  See how that one works for you.

Geez, I was actually praising you, okay, maybe it's not the best praise, as I don't do it often. I thought you are like me, you're into JRPGs. I didn't like FFXIII but still into JRPGs and want the genre to be back to its best like it once was. I deserved everything you said about me. I learnt a lesson today to not praise anyone. I will be a more cynical person now, as the world is not  all sunshine and rainbows.

PS Does it have to be a strawman? Can't it be a strawwoman laced with poison? Not that there's nothing wrong with liking men. But it's not me.

Modifié par Wrath of Bong, 22 mars 2010 - 10:48 .

[MerinTB]

Wrath of Bong wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Wrath of Bong wrote...
I disargee with BG2, Planescape: Torment and Deus Ex being overrated. But since MerinTB seems to be more into JRPGs and they are so innovative, so who am I to say BG2, Planescape and Deus Ex are not overrated.

Wow, that's just  flat-out wrong.  This is someone who knows nothing about me and makes a huge assumption.

Geez, I was actually praising you, okay, maybe it's not the best praise, as I don't do it often. I thought you are like me, you're into JRPGs..

If it was meant as praise, you are right it's not the best.  What you wrote, up there in bold, read to me as being extremely saracastic and dismissive of me - as in
"MerinTB is a fanboy of JRPGs, so ignore what he says about these western RPG's"
And hence my reaction.

I doubt it was intended as praise, but if it was, my apologies.

[surfgirlusa_2006]

MrHimuraChan wrote...

Elder Scrolls: Oblivion.

Everyone said it was among the greatest games ever made, i had to buy it!

And... i know it's personal opinion, but to me, Oblivion is so... boring. Almost to the point of being sleepy. -.-

I know what you mean.  I don't dislike Oblivion and I like open world games, but it seemed like it was a vast world with little direction.  I never knew what to do or where to go, and just ran around looking at the scenery and completed some random sidequests.  I also never really felt like I got to know other characters really well.  This was the first game I tried playing on the PS3 though and the biggest game I had ever tried, so I'll probably give it another go...after I play more DA: O


Does anyone feel that FFXIII is a bit overrated?  I don't dislike it, but playing such a linear RPG after moving away from that experience was a bit unsettling, and I'm not really getting into the characters as much as when I played FFX (which I originally disliked due to linearity).

[insochris]

Leinadi wrote...

Fallout 2. Yes, it was larger than the first game and had some engine improvements but that's pretty much it. The internal consistancy was shot to hell, the game is littered by lame pop-culture jokes, combat design had gone from alright (in F1)  to terrible.

as far as i'm concerned, there were only a few noticeable changes to combat: unarmed attacks upgrade (punch to strong punch, jab, etc), the IFF perk from Fallout 1 was integrated into normal combat, and the companion combat settings (which didn't exist at all in Fallout 1).

otherwise it was pretty much the same as in Fallout 1.

[Ryzaki]

The entire Baldur's gate series



*hides behind flame shield*