Aryck1095 V2 wrote...
This thread is about the Kasumi DLC, how the hell did it turn in a Boys Vs. Girls debate?
Check out pages 6 & 7.
Maybe 5 too.
EvilChani wrote...
First, you have to realize that, for many people, these games are entertainment. Said people have jobs, and lives, and don't have five or ten hours a day to "practice" getting better at games. If they have to devote the time they would to an actual skill - such as learning a musical instrument, playing a sport, practicing firing a *real* gun, etc. - then they would rather learn something that is actually useful in the real world, especially if learning to play the game is more frustrating than learning a useful skill.
Taking that into consideration, an average person is not going to find any "fun" in being, as you put it, "KO'd by an advanced player". When you first learn to do something, be it anything from playing music to lifting weights, you don't get thrown in the middle of an "advanced" lesson your first time out. With music, you start with simple pieces that are meant for a beginner. With weight lifting, you start with lighter weights and focus on form until you're ready to advance. No one hands you Fur Elise on your first day of piano lessons and criticizes you for not being able to play it. No one expects you to be able to do one-legged squats with your body weight the first time you ever touch a weight. The former would make you too frustrated to continue your lessons and the second would get you injured. To expect your average game newbie to enjoy being thrown in a Halo match with an advanced player is no different from my other examples.
You may stick your nose up in the air at the idea of someone not being willing to learn by being killed immediately over and over until they either get lucky or manage to learn to use the controls, but not everyone takes joy in frustration. Therefore, there should be other methods of "learning", such as playing with people who are actually on your level (which is a joke in Halo matches since you have advanced players stuck in lower levels!) or playing in single player mode on casual until you get the hang of it. Also take into consideration that some people are never going to advance. Not everyone has great hand/eye coordination, especially in games (for example, I can shoot a gun as well as or better than anyone I know, save my cousin who is insanely good with weapons, but when I get headshots in ME2, it's usually pure luck), and those people may never be interested in playing any game on any level other than casual. Take away the casual level - or make it too difficult - and you'll lose a portion of your customers
That philosophy applies in almost all areas of learning, and this is something I have no qualms to begin with. However, I'd like to mention that because shooter games are very much hands on and dependent on reaction times, you don't learn a great deal by starting on a level you can easily win. There's a difference between placing yourself in an environment that is challenging enough for your current skills, versus being outright dominated in every single battle. I was talking about the importance of the former -- if you're loosing at least 1/3rd of the time, you are on the right track.
I understand the intention behind the music connections, but using the piano as an example is a very poor analogy. There are far too many things to consider in the beginning that doesn't demand speed and fast combinations. You're not reacting to the environment -- just to what is written before you, and even then you can "adjust" music notes to your tastes (oh, the joys of artistic freedom). Slow and easy are often permitted for starters.
Something like martial arts have closer similarities: in sparring, some trainers pair the combatants with an opponent who is one level ahead of them. The advanced fighter doesn't really learn anything new, but the weaker guy has so much to gain from observing his tactics and strategy even if he looses. And as for weight training, how far you want to push yourself depends on whether you're hoping to shed off weight by toning your body, or build muscle. They both require completely different approaches. For the former, it's looking to find the "right" level (however slow that may be), while the other is all about increasing load each time it becomes manageable.
Back to the point: I never disagreed (or said) the casual level should be eliminated, because technically, people can still be K.O'd on the first stage. I merely questioned how someone
would improve by not challenging themselves. This point seems to be lost when you stated that there are players who will always remain in the same spot, either by choice or skill. Improvement for these people is obviously out of the inquiry.
Lastly, I agree "there should be other methods of learning." This is a good statement that supports the quoted part I was responding to, but it wasn't an idea touched upon in my response. Though it does shifts the attention over to clarifying what was meant by "being iced by a six-year-old [...] within the first two minutes of play". Some multiplayer FPS sessions are pretty brief, especially if you have tons of players on that server. Two minutes is darn good if you're new. 10 minutes is a miracle for the inexperienced -- most die in 20 seconds. FPS demands a separate mindset, where the player has to make each second count. It is a tactical experience whereas traditional RPGs are strategic in a sense where fast-reactions do not ensure survivability.
A frustration at multiple deaths is an opinion shared amongst many beyond non-standard gamers. And it can be off-putting to those who aren’t interested in the first place. I think grouping players with comparable (but not the same) skills is a good idea for leveling the battlefield. For those with poorer hand-eye coordination, there are a lot of games available that's easy-going on the player's reflexes. They don't have to throw themselves into situation where they're chronically disadvantaged, or expect one series to water-down the difficulty. Nonetheless, Mass Effect is a little different because it's also an RPG. Some people just want to hear the story, and so of course the devs have to implement the casual option. But this is unlikely to happen on pure FPS/TPS. Not until Halo 2/3, Call of Duty 4 & Team Fortress 2 came around, there weren't many casual players on shooters. In a way, it's like music. Most people listen to mainstream as kids, and branch out to more selective genres when they're older.
EvilChani wrote...
It all goes back to marketing, and to the fact that game manufacturers need to realize that 18 year old boys are not the only customers they have. So, while 18 year old boys tend to equate the size of their penis with how many headshots they get and want to stare at ****** all day long, there are only so many 18 year old boys out there and, typically, they have no money of their own. That means there is a large portion of the market that they are missing.
Most large companies tend to go with what they think is safe, until some other company makes a hit by doing something unique and appealing to the wider masses. I'm sure the developers would gladly consider other buyers, but they need to be absolutely certain they're not wasting time on people who may or may not be there for the long run. It does take some time for 'new' groups to get mainstreamed, and until then, the advertisers are comfortable with following the old procedures. Change may not occur in drastic measures, but as you see more women working in the industry, and female characters being released each year, I think it's safe to say they've taken notice. (Pink controllers & Nintendo DS, anyone?)
The newcomers won't get into hardcore gaming right away. Though we have seen a huge uprise in casual gaming that gives the Sims a run for its money. It is ridiculous to ignore important customers yet there also needs to be social support on the female end too. Admitting you're a fan of Twilight is more acceptable than saying you're a Halo 3 champion.
Modifié par Nyx.Aeterna, 25 mars 2010 - 01:18 .
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. But also i would have to wait and see the reviews before considering buying the DLC. Look's good from the pic's so far.
