173 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave the Seagull]

I saved them, but apparently an alliance missle strayed and took down the Acension in a single shot a few minutes after meeting up with me after killing Saren, which is the only explanation I can give for everyone saying they're dead despite expressly saving them and being congratualed by them post game. ****ing corrupt saves.

And no, I never killed the council in any of my playthroughs. The space battle which happens when you do that is too damn boring, and not nearly cool enough.

[Mcjon01]

Lemonwizard wrote...

I heard that decapitating a nation's government by killing all their leaders has serious consequences like causing extreme political instability for a number of years.


Can anybody confirm this?

But, but, Shandepared told me that's the surest path to a peaceful Earth!  Why would he lie?

[HomicidialFrog]

Lemonwizard wrote...

I heard that decapitating a nation's government by killing all their leaders has serious consequences like causing extreme political instability for a number of years.


Can anybody confirm this?

Ah  yes, "political instability" .We have dismissed that claim.

[Wraith_3]

The first time I played I went after Sovereign because I figured there were more lives at risk by it being attached/near to the Citadel than those on the Ascension. Then I replayed the end because I figured it would be smarter for humans to save the Council and not look like they were humans first.

[Lord Coake]

justinnstuff wrote...

Well let's see, you killed off the council and instituted a human empire. I don't know about you guys, but I'd hate to have just humans in charge. That's a baaaaad idea.

You have to put up with **** talk and general ****ing even if the council died as a result of you focusing on Soverign.  You know, the militarily correct choice.  Afterwards, a new, multispecies council is made, with [Anderson] representing humans.  Still, the council refuses to see you, thinking you alwys "put  humans first".

Jackasses.

Thats the price the Council pays for thinking that boarding a military vessel in the middle of a freaking warzone is a good idea.  If they wanted to run away, they should have had the fastest frigate available waiting for them to jet them away to Palaven and the entire dammed Turian Navy or something.

The council boarding the Destiny Ascension "for safety" was absolutely asinine.  You get the political leaders away from the fighting, not put them on the ship thats not only the centerpiece of the defense, but already taking fire.

Modifié par Lord Coake, 20 mars 2010 - 11:27 .

[Barquiel]

justinnstuff wrote...

 I don't know about you guys, but I'd hate to have just humans in charge. That's a baaaaad idea.

this!

I always save the council (I would miss turian air quotes too^_^)

[DPSSOC]

I usually kill the Council and I was a little surprised by the hate myself. Yes I killed the Council and saved the rest of you ungrateful pricks. Thank you so much for pointing out my mistake next time you die too.

[wizardryforever]

Wow, I can't believe that people think killing the council would be the right thing to do.  Maybe if Shepard were an unfeeling robot (though even Geth have feelings now), then focusing on Sovereign would be the right thing to do.  But seriously, letting the council that has successfully run a huge interstellar government die just because they annoyed you is even worse than focusing on pure logic.  What's even worse is that people like the OP are now asking "WTF, all I did was completely take over your government and effectively kick everyone else out, what's the big deal?"

Think about it, if such a thing happened to a council that we were part of, and some upstart species, lets say Turians, killed off our representation and replaced it with all Turians, don't you think we would be royally pissed off at the Turians for doing such a thing?  That's why I was so surprised that the council dying was the default situation.

I'll admit, I was really annoyed at the council the first time I played ME2, because things seemed so positive when I saved them, like they finally believed me.  Now they go back to being their willfully ignorant selves just cause I die.  Still, much better for everyone if the council lives.

[GenericPlayer2]

Its a catch 22. Without metagaming, you have no idea if Sovereign can be destroyed if the 5th fleet tries to save the Destiny Ascension first. My first instinct is to concentrate on Sovereign - there will always be more politicians and more dreadnoughts, but if Sovereign activated that relay then all sentient organic life in the galaxy might come to an end. You are the only one who knows the stakes, and its your call.



I have playthroughs with both sets of decisions, but from an RPG non-metagaming stand point, I would let the council die. In terms of aftermath, there is some gratitude for saving the council, and it perplexes me. I don't know why these politicians in particular are so special. If it was a turian spectre or Salarian Spectre who knew what was at stake, could he not arrive to the same conclusion? Hostility against humans does not abate with the survival of the original council, nor does their willingness to discount your warnings. I honestly think people will not get their 'told you so' moment or "Ah yes Reapers" moment because they saved the council, they made their bed and slept in it. BW could always change that but that is how I feel.



Now if the council dies, you hear a lot about brewing tensions, Turians disregarding the Firaxen treaty (if thats what its called...I am refering to the dreadnought treaty). It becomes clear that anti human hostility has increased. When you are at the end of the game you really begin to wonder if destroying the base is the right thing to do. I am certain that Shep can get the job done against the Reapers, but after that I want humanity to have an edge should Turians decide to put that huge fleet to use.



Of course none of this matters, as I believe that BW likes to offer the illusion of choice instead of real choice. The same story is going to be told in ME3, with a few minor twists. I have heard all the "ME2 is the middle story" arguments, but I don't buy it. I will probably buy and enjoy ME3, but I am not convinced that choices in ME and ME2 will have a big effect.

[Wild Still]

They had it coming, and the only good Asari is a dead Asari.

[Mcjon01]

It does kind of ruin the feeling of making a tough but necessary decision to abandon the Council when you see that no matter what you do, you still have to wait around for the Citadel arms to open. It's like,



Shepard: "Focus on Sovereign, there's no time to spare!"

Alliance: "Roger!"

Alliance: ...

Council: ...

Alliance: ...

Council: ...

Council: "Dicks."

Council: *explodes*

Alliance: "Right, Sovereign!"

[wizardryforever]

If what I hear about creating a new council with equal representation is true, then it makes no real difference. But the time I killed the council (never again) the new council was all humans. It's not that the individuals on the council are special, it's that they are representatives for their governments, and humans can't effectively represent an alien government, can they?

[Mcjon01]

Shandepared wrote...

Mcjon01 wrote...

It does kind of ruin the feeling of making a tough but necessary decision to abandon the Council when you see that no matter what you do, you still have to wait around for the Citadel arms to open.

That's not the point, genius. When you save the Council you lose several ships. You're waiting around so as to hit Sovereign with your full might.

I was talking more about the difference between "Save the Council" and "Focus on Sovereign", not "Save the Council" and "Let the Council be our Meat Shield".  Obviously, that's the rationale behind the pure Renegade option.

[Mcjon01]

Shandepared wrote...

Mcjon01 wrote...

I was talking more about the difference between "Save the Council" and "Focus on Sovereign", not "Save the Council" and "Let the Council be our Meat Shield".  Obviously, that's the rationale behind the pure Renegade option.

The only difference is in what Shepard says, to a lesser degree his motivation. Otherwise the tactical situation is not changed. You are keeping your forces back.

I could have sworn that the middle-ground option had the Alliance forces rushing in at the same time as the Paragon option, just instead of actually firing on the Geth they just sort of swerve around and head for the Citadel.  Which you would think would still put them in enemy fire needlessly, except it doesn't because as far as the game is concerned the Alliance is invisible to Geth unless they try to act like big damn heroes.

Of course, the game makes a lot of silly assumptions like that.  I mean, I only saved the Council because I assumed that even if the ship was damaged, having a fully functional dreadnaught-class cannon to point at a stationary Reaper at close range would be useful.  But nope, victory is all due to Sovereign being stupid and leaving himself open for the Normandy's pea-shooter.

Modifié par Mcjon01, 21 mars 2010 - 12:18 .

[Mcjon01]

Well okay then. Now I'm disappointed in my memory AND the ending.

[Asari]

Wild Still wrote...

They had it coming, and the only good Asari is a dead Asari.

[SimonTheFrog]

When i played ME1 the first couple of times, i always thought that shooting the Sovereign as soon as possible is really the only thing that matters. I mean, it tries to open the gate... the longer you wait the more it might succeed. So i always thought it's a strange choice to wait doing so...

After i reluctantly tried the counsil-saving thingy i realized that there is utterly no impact about the sovereign at all.

Hm... maybe i didn't pay attention enough.



Anyway, it's pretty much just deciding between humans or aliens and putting this into paragon/renegade is strange as it is neither. It's like selecting between Ash and Kaidan had an impact on paragon/renegade as well.

[Lord Coake]

Asari wrote...

Wild Still wrote...

They had it coming, and the only good Asari is a dead Asari.

No worries, ma'am.  Internal Security already has him and the rest of Terra Firma under watch by conceled snipers.

[abstractwhiz]

 It strikes me as unrealistic that humanity was able to just waltz in and assume control. The fact that the Council members are dead doesn't mean anything by itself - they can easily be replaced by new delegates. In the final ME cutscene, Udina spouts some BS about humanity being 'stronger' as a result of Sovereign handing out a royal ass-kicking to the Citadel fleet. This is the bit that bugs me.

Realistically, the Citadel fleet can't be more than a small fraction of the military strength of the other species. This especially applies to the Turians, who have been fighting space wars before we even had gunpowder, have an almost completely militarized society with hints of imperium (client species, anyone?), and probably espouse political beliefs similar to Shandepared.  They should have fleets containing thousands of ships. The only way for humans to take over would be to declare a long bloody war against pretty much everyone, including the three biggest economies in the galaxy. Hell, it feels like there's less hope of winning this war than there is of defeating the Reapers. <_<

So I always save the Council, because the alternative feels like bogus writing. I'd rather take on the Reapers with a Turian spearhead and STG intel, with humanity doing the commando-type strike missions that Alliance tactics seem heavily focused on. 

And of course, the Asari can distract the Reapers using certain abilities that they tend to downplay...

[IccaRa]

Is there any discernible different in ME2 when it comes to the Paragon Council Dead ending and the Renegade Council Dead ending? Are you still hated?



My MainShep saved them, but I'm playing through as a secondary Shep who chose to "focus on Sovereign" and encouraged a new alien council.