173 réponses à ce sujet

[wizardryforever]

Shandepared wrote...

Mcjon01 wrote...

I'm not entirely sure the Geth would care about the Citadel fleet, at that point.  Religious fervor can be a powerful motivator for doing stupid things.

I'm betting they were smart enough to know that doing that would only get them destroyed and free up the Citadel fleets to help take down Sovereign.

Would it though?  If the Ascension is destroyed, there goes all the leadership for the citadel fleet.  That would cause at least momentary confusion as command was reestablished.  Geth, however, think at the speed of light, and would be able to make decisions much faster than any organic.  Then there is the fact that much of the citadel fleet was destroyed due to the sheer surprise of the geth attack.  I don't think that what was left by that point would be much threat to the Geth on its own.

Besides, the sandwich effect (cool name for a game right there) you describe would also sandwich the Alliance ships (the stronger of the two organic fleets) between Sovereign and the geth.  The Alliance would focus on Sovereign, whereas the Geth could organize their fleet in such a way to minimize flanking by the remaining citadel ships.  This would cause far more loss of life than necessary, especially when much of it could be prevented by not being a cold-hearted bastard.

[Canned Bullets]

I saved the Council because the Alliance destroy the Reaper anyways.

[wizardryforever]

True, very little about the battle is shown or explained. But I really think that the tactics of the situation could go either way, so you're left with a purely moral/ethical decision, with the neutral option being a "I'm not taking any chances, sorry council" type of situation.

[Steingrimur Steingrimsson]

On my main Shepard I always save them, it just seems like the reasonable thing to do. I'm going for the ending where you ally yourself with all the alien races and they defeat the reapers with the combined power of love and friendship, whereafter they will form an all-species council that will last for like twenty years before an intergalactic war breaks out. Now with salvaged Reaper technology! It will be great fun!

[Pacifien]

I have to agree that because little information is given about the space battle around the Citadel, you can't really use the situation in your decision on whether or not to save the Council. I don't buy the argument that the Destiny Ascension is a potentially powerful warship in the future because that doesn't help you much in the now. I don't buy the argument that the Geth will be at your back, because 1) you're assuming all the other Citadel fleets will let them get that close to an open Citadel and 2) space is three dimensional.



Damn, I miss playing Homeworld...

[Pacifien]

Steingrimur Steingrimsson wrote...

On my main Shepard I always save them, it just seems like the reasonable thing to do. I'm going for the ending where you ally yourself with all the alien races and they defeat the reapers with the combined power of love and friendship, whereafter they will form an all-species council that will last for like twenty years before an intergalactic war breaks out. Now with salvaged Reaper technology! It will be great fun!

I dunno, the Asari and Salarians seem a little resistent to allowing any species into their club. I wouldn't mind seeing the entire Council setup fall.

[princess_stomper]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Mcjon01 wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Collider wrote...

Actually, we're talking about Mass Effect, not American history. I played ME2 with the council died because of concentrating on Sovereign and the closest thing to chaos were ~40 race riots through two years.

That's what tear-gas was invented for.

What happens when the Quarians and Volus start rioting?

They didn't

See, that was my assumption. I don't know anything about American history so I had no idea that the loss of one president caused such an issue. I'm pretty certain that, in my country, if you got rid of every single member of parliament it wouldn't make a scrap of difference - within a week they'd all have been replaced by others exactly like them and we'd all carry on as before.

Therefore I allowed the council to die with a clear conscience, assuming that they'd have been neatly replaced by near-clones of themselves within a week or two and while people would howl for a while about the injustice of it all, they'd all have forgotten about it after a year or so.

It would also be my assumption that regardless of whether I callously sacrificed the council or callously sacrificed innocent civilians, I'd still end up facing a bunch of idiotic politicians who didn't believe a word I said - whether they were the originals or just their equally bureaucratic replacements.

[OldMan91]

You know, one of the interesting cliches that people seem to hold on to is the idea that all parliament members are idiots and the government is made up by monkeys.



I would really like to see these people do a better job at governing. They wouldn't last a day.

[JulianusApostate]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

princess_stomper wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Mcjon01 wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Collider wrote...

Actually, we're talking about Mass Effect, not American history. I played ME2 with the council died because of concentrating on Sovereign and the closest thing to chaos were ~40 race riots through two years.

That's what tear-gas was invented for.

What happens when the Quarians and Volus start rioting?

They didn't

See, that was my assumption. I don't know anything about American history so I had no idea that the loss of one president caused such an issue. I'm pretty certain that, in my country, if you got rid of every single member of parliament it wouldn't make a scrap of difference - within a week they'd all have been replaced by others exactly like them and we'd all carry on as before.

Therefore I allowed the council to die with a clear conscience, assuming that they'd have been neatly replaced by near-clones of themselves within a week or two and while people would howl for a while about the injustice of it all, they'd all have forgotten about it after a year or so.

It would also be my assumption that regardless of whether I callously sacrificed the council or callously sacrificed innocent civilians, I'd still end up facing a bunch of idiotic politicians who didn't believe a word I said - whether they were the originals or just their equally bureaucratic replacements.

It wasn't princess.  Yeah it was big, but the riots had to do with other issues as well.  The 1960's was a very turbulent time in American History and JFK's assassination is part of that, but there was a lot of issues on the table that decade.  The Vietman War that president Lyndon Johnson who was JFK's vice got the U.S. involved in.  The Civil Rights movement.  Hippies and Sex, Drugs, and Rock and Roll etc...

I think people are ignoring the fact that the council was NOT the entire government of all citadel space, or even (in my opinion) all that essential to the government. Sure, they vote on the biggest decisions, and decided who to send th fleet in after, but they have to have a legislative body SOMEWHERE. 3 people cannot write, interpret and enforce all the laws for however many billions there are out there.

Also, each race has their own home government - the Turian Hierarchy, the Asari Republics, and so on. Also the elcor and volus and hanar and drell and quarians weren't even represented (yes I know there are a lot less of them than the main 3) in the equation. It's not like Councilor Anderson suddenly replaced every government organization in the Systems Alliance. If he died, they'd have a bunch of speeches, some mourning, and a new Councilor to pick up the job next week.

So honestly? I don't think the Council should be the focus of the decision. I think the 10,000 odd crew of the Destiny Ascension should be the center of the debate. Though I for one let them die with the neutral decision.

Modifié par JulianusApostate, 25 mars 2010 - 11:12 .

[Raphael diSanto]

OldMan91 wrote...

You know, one of the interesting cliches that people seem to hold on to is the idea that all parliament members are idiots and the government is made up by monkeys.

I would really like to see these people do a better job at governing. They wouldn't last a day.

Only because people have different opinions as to what's right

If everyone thought the way I do, we wouldn't need governing, because everyone would always be in agreement 

Modifié par Raphael diSanto, 25 mars 2010 - 11:15 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

What did you expect? Humanity wasn't in a good position in ME1 and even if you let them die because you didn't know if there'd be enough to take out Sovereign, you're still going to get hate. Everyone is going to believe that humanity did it for itself whether the Council was sacrificed to stop Sovereign or just for humanity's benefit. Instead of creating a new golden age for the galaxy it will look more like humanity is imposing an iron fist on the galaxy.



Replacing the old council must have not been easy plus the replacements will never be like the old council. They're 4 different individuals. Besides the new council is even more useless than the old one. At least the old one is willing to hear you out and give you back Spectre Status. The new one doesn't even bother meeting with the man who put them in charge much less give you your Spectre Status back if Udina is councilor.

[JulianusApostate]

Shandepared wrote...

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

 Instead of creating a new golden age for the galaxy it will look more like humanity is imposing an iron fist on the galaxy.

The old Council would do anything but create a golden-age for the galaxy.

They may seem like stupid *****, yes, but you have to admit that Bioware seems to imply that harmony between all races will come from the paragon choices.

[Barquiel]

1200 years without a major conflict isn't that bad imo (compared with humanity)

[Nightwriter]

I saved them cuz I believed in what they stood for: a unison of the species, a galactic community.



Little did I know they had suffered severe brain damage during the attack on the Citadel and have been leaking brain fluid for the past two years.

[wizardryforever]

Shandepared wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

1200 years without a major conflict isn't that bad imo (compared with humanity)

Oh? Tell that to the quarians, batarians, or the humans. It was a false peace administered by at the hands of a tyrannical government.

Do you really see the Council government as tyrannical?  How do you figure that?  If that's tyrannical, what isn't?  Anarchy?

[Gavinthelocust]

The Turian Councilor is an ****, I regret nothing.

[Splinter Cell 108]

Shandepared wrote...

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

 Instead of creating a new golden age for the galaxy it will look more like humanity is imposing an iron fist on the galaxy.

The old Council would do anything but create a golden-age for the galaxy.

I was refering to humanity not the Council.