111 réponses à ce sujet

[Mister Mida]

apotheosic wrote...
having your persuasion dictated by your paragon/renegade score is just silly. how does being good or evil make you more persuasive?

I was wondering the same thing.

[nhsk]

"filthy xbox owner" blah blah blah

The original xbox was originally developed for xbox, then later ported to pc.

A better system would be that none of the conversational options was colored, and depending on how much of a renegade or paragon you were people would take threats more lightly if you were paragon, or persuasion attempt less likely to succeed if reversed.

F.example. if you have 75 % Paragon a threat would be less likely to be succesfull and trigger combat instead of withdrawal or a standdown by the opposing part - Then you could mark conversation options with [persuade] or [threaten] instead.

Modifié par nhsk, 19 mai 2010 - 02:50 .

[Spartas Husky]

Bump....extra bump.. BRING IT.



So that multiple playthroughs allows us to be fully max and be able to play as we like.

[Lunatic LK47]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I don't want to have to spend skill points on a conversation skill.  I honestly like the system as it stands.  I mean, I know plenty of people who play Paragade or Renegon Sheps and do just fine.  If you're going out of your way to pick neutral options, thats your choice.  The point behind Paragon/Renegade IS a show of Shepard's charisma by firmly taking a stance in either one camp or the other.  No one is going to be persuaded by Shepard's charisma if Shepard stays perfectly in the middle.

This. I really found ME1's system to be a mess and ended up using Lorik Qu'inn just because of the fact that maxing out both of the persuasion skills helped my chances with discounts/selling items at higher prices. ME2 at least doesn't dump this on me while I can handle the situation the way I want to handle it, provided I appropriately upgrade my base class (i.e. Shock Trooper for the bonus negotiation if I'm a soldier)

[Collider]

ME2's system is terrible. You can 100% paragon or renegade and still not be able to use charm or intimidate. That's incredibly flawed.

[Nivenus]

I'd say a single persuade skill that works for both charm/intimidate (and which you're better at determined by your morality score) makes sense to me. It'd be a nice compromise and is pretty close to DA:O's system (a single persuade skill with strength/cunning determining which you're better at).

[kraidy1117]

I like the system my welf, never ran into any problems and I am a Paragade..... Don't see where the complaining comes.

[Collider]

kraidy1117 wrote...

I like the system my welf, never ran into any problems and I am a Paragade..... Don't see where the complaining comes.

I was paragade and I had to side with Miranda or Jack in their fight. I hate that! Why is Bioware punishing me. I had full persuasion with my class skill.

[Nivenus]

kraidy1117 wrote...

I like the system my welf, never ran into any problems and I am a Paragade..... Don't see where the complaining comes.

I never actually ran into problems myself either, but I like non-combat skills. I hate using my morality as the sole basis for my capacity to persuade others.

I'd also like a hacking skill in ME3.

[kraidy1117]

Nivenus wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

I like the system my welf, never ran into any problems and I am a Paragade..... Don't see where the complaining comes.

I never actually ran into problems myself either, but I like non-combat skills. I hate using my morality as the sole basis for my capacity to persuade others.

I'd also like a hacking skill in ME3.

Nah, the thing I loved about ME2 is that I was not forced to bring a hacker with me, unlike ME where if I had no hacking powers I had no choice or miss out on stuff, thats bad. I like that E2 givesu freedome with our squad.

[fongiel24]

Renegade/Paragon responses should be for RP purposes only. There should be a third way for paragades. Underneath that, a persuade system like in the old KOTOR games might work. You would have a separate persuade skill that determines the probability of your Renegade/Paragon/Neutral persuasion attempt.

[Nivenus]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Nivenus wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

I like the system my welf, never ran into any problems and I am a Paragade..... Don't see where the complaining comes.

I never actually ran into problems myself either, but I like non-combat skills. I hate using my morality as the sole basis for my capacity to persuade others.

I'd also like a hacking skill in ME3.

Nah, the thing I loved about ME2 is that I was not forced to bring a hacker with me, unlike ME where if I had no hacking powers I had no choice or miss out on stuff, thats bad. I like that E2 givesu freedome with our squad.

I agree that's bad because it limits a player's agency. However, there's no reason they couldn't make a hacking skill that makes you better (such as giving you a longer time limit or more opportunities to try again if you fail). Fallout 3 is a good example of a game where having skill in hacking is useful but not necessary.

[Onyx Jaguar]

If I was behind this change old thread I would make it even more confusing by putting it into a Bethesda/AD&D (ADD?) system that you leveled up a single persuasion stat but also having renegade/paragon dictated by actions. This could get you by as a Paragade/Renegon but would not make it for a strictly neutral character as they would not be very charismatic. The persuade skill would have the by product of allowing for shop bonuses or whatnot. The Paragon/REnegade system should be additional dialogue options and not a necessity.



Like ME 1.

[cachx]

I like the system in place now.



In ME1 you were practically forced to divert skill points to max charm and intimidate just to be able to pick the choices.

[Nivenus]

Actually, I'm pretty sure charm/intimidate were still extremely desirable options for the most part in ME1. They let you skip a boss battle, after all.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Also saves Wrex if you didn't do his personal mission.



That Saren suicide was the greatest thing since the suicide at the end of Fallout 2



But in ME 2 it seemed to be even more essential at all times. I think the only times you should have been punished was the Zaeed loyalty mission and a couple others. The fight resolutions were annoying and problematic.

[Collider]

Optimal system:



Except in situations which deal with reputation, your paragon and renegade scores are not prerequisites to convincing people. Instead, it's tied to your persuade skill which itself is independent of your paragon or renegade score

[Nivenus]

Collider wrote...

Optimal system:

Except in situations which deal with reputation, your paragon and renegade scores are not prerequisites to convincing people. Instead, it's tied to your persuade skill which itself is independent of your paragon or renegade score

I see your point, but a lot of people really hate investing in a persuade skill all that much and not having paragon or renegade play a role at all would mean you kind of have to make up two different skills (as in ME1).

[Mister Mida]

A persuasion skill combining KotOR/Jade Empire/Mass Effect 1 factors would be nice imo. It also would be cool that instead that the dialogue gets blanked out, you can still choose it but if your skill is not good enough you get a different response from the NPC.

[Collider]

Nivenus wrote...

Collider wrote...

Optimal system:

Except in situations which deal with reputation, your paragon and renegade scores are not prerequisites to convincing people. Instead, it's tied to your persuade skill which itself is independent of your paragon or renegade score

I see your point, but a lot of people really hate investing in a persuade skill all that much and not having paragon or renegade play a role at all would mean you kind of have to make up two different skills (as in ME1).

Not really.

X Ability
X Ability
Y class Ability w/+ Persuasion
X Ability

If they level up Y to the fullest they can use any persuade option. Some persuasion options may fail or succeed depending on your paragon or renegade score - for example if people know you're very merciful you'll have different options and outcomes than if instead people know you're ruthless.

[Nivenus]

All this talk of combining previous RPG systems with ME gives me a weird idea... introducing base abilities to the ME universe (as in strength, dexterity, intelligence, etc, etc.).



Not something I anticipate happening, but it's an interesting idea. It would also allow the differentiation of a persuade skill by ability rather than by morality (as in JE and DA:O).

[Collider]

See, my problem is that the current system in ME2 restricts roleplaying. Roleplaying is the damn reason I played Mass Effect in the first place, please don't destroy that Bioware.

[Nivenus]

Collider wrote...

See, my problem is that the current system in ME2 restricts roleplaying. Roleplaying is the damn reason I played Mass Effect in the first place, please don't destroy that Bioware.

I agree. Your skill to sway someone to your view should not be dependent solely on how moral/immoral you are. They're two separate aspects of roleplaying.

[onelifecrisis]

I think the current system works fairly well. Shepard needs the courage of his convictions. A man (or woman) who is torn between deontological and consequentialist viewpoints will not be able argue with real conviction from either standpoint. Not that there is really such a thing as a deontological Shepard, what with all the needless killing that he/she likes to do, but still, one can try.

[Icinix]

I like the charm / intimidate option over the paragon / renegade options.



Top choices are noble / paragon choices, lower choices are selfish / renegade actions.

Everything on the other side should be reserved for special selections. What I liked about Charm / Intimidate was it allowed you to get options that were niether paragon nor renegade.



E. g The unique weapons license, or keeping company interests on Feros. They were choices that allowed a much more 'neutral' character, or allowed you to balance potential benefits against moral actions.