The thing is I do not see the difference between chemical and program in relation to intelligence or will as being any more significant than the difference between a man-made mirror and the surface of water in relation to reflection. I would think that 'intelligence' and 'will' are words we use to describe a sophisticated sequence of reactions to stimuli. Whether that is because of a chemical arrangement, or because of how the hardware is programmed, ultimately that makes no difference to what is being discussed
Something that has been bugging me about EDI
Débuté par
Symbolz
, mars 20 2010 07:03
Retour en haut
#152
Guest_Maviarab_*
Posté 21 mars 2010 - 05:01
Guest_Maviarab_*
Guest_Maviarab_*
-
- Guests
The very definition of intelligence is in iyself....hard to define Toby i will agree.
as has been said, a chatbot can be supremely 'intelligent', and its also artificial lol....thats where the lines tend to cross and become blurry, you could say my cat which maniplualtes me into getting what it wants shows 'intelligence'...
as for the mirror analogy, I will also agree there there is a very fine line between chemical and machine, itsa subject and field that is very difficult to nil down to one specific thing, and as such, creates interesting discussion
'Will' is perhaps slightly different imo, but will recognise its importance and as you say its relevence to an extent...
Btw, glad you arrived, its teken the topic and discussion ina slightly different direction which is interesting hehe, though right now, I have no idea if were on topic or off topic lmao
as has been said, a chatbot can be supremely 'intelligent', and its also artificial lol....thats where the lines tend to cross and become blurry, you could say my cat which maniplualtes me into getting what it wants shows 'intelligence'...
as for the mirror analogy, I will also agree there there is a very fine line between chemical and machine, itsa subject and field that is very difficult to nil down to one specific thing, and as such, creates interesting discussion
'Will' is perhaps slightly different imo, but will recognise its importance and as you say its relevence to an extent...
Btw, glad you arrived, its teken the topic and discussion ina slightly different direction which is interesting hehe, though right now, I have no idea if were on topic or off topic lmao
#153
Posté 21 mars 2010 - 05:27
Symbolz
-
- Members
- 655 messages
I dunno if we're on topic or offtopic myself...and I created this thread. 
I think intelligence is both easy and hard to define and categorize. There are so many subjective interpretations, many which I believe are situational. For example: You take a bushman from Africa and have him do a IQ test, I can almost guarantee that he would fail it, or not even complete it. Does that make him dumb? I don't think he would be in his own enviroment. Intelligence doesn't really translate well from one area to another.
...am I off topic? I dunno anymore!! I don't like the colour of my gun. 
I think intelligence is both easy and hard to define and categorize. There are so many subjective interpretations, many which I believe are situational. For example: You take a bushman from Africa and have him do a IQ test, I can almost guarantee that he would fail it, or not even complete it. Does that make him dumb? I don't think he would be in his own enviroment. Intelligence doesn't really translate well from one area to another.
...am I off topic?
I dunno anymore!! I don't like the colour of my gun.
#154
Guest_Maviarab_*
Posté 21 mars 2010 - 05:35
Guest_Maviarab_*
Guest_Maviarab_*
-
- Guests
Very good equation Symbol, and also very accurate
#155
Posté 21 mars 2010 - 05:50
Symbolz
-
- Members
- 655 messages
Thank you. I remember as a kid these movies called The Gods Must Be Crazy 1 & 2. They were about this bushman in Africa and his perspective of the modern world. It's really funny. Worth a watch for sure. Anyways, the little fellow during the course of the movie showed extremely clever survivial techiques. I wouldn't know what to do to survive there.
Modifié par Symbol117, 21 mars 2010 - 05:56 .
#156
Guest_Maviarab_*
Posté 21 mars 2010 - 06:05
Guest_Maviarab_*
Guest_Maviarab_*
-
- Guests
Based on your analogy's, you ever seen this?
To me shows great intelligence, cleverness and will
To me shows great intelligence, cleverness and will
#157
Posté 21 mars 2010 - 06:22
Symbolz
-
- Members
- 655 messages
No. I have never seen that video before. Wow. I'm rarely in awe, but that was nothing short of amazing.
#158
Guest_Maviarab_*
Posté 21 mars 2010 - 10:18
Guest_Maviarab_*
Guest_Maviarab_*
-
- Guests
hehe yeah, I know not really anything to do with your topic, but as we got into intelligence and stuff, it truly is an awe ispiring story
#159
Posté 21 mars 2010 - 10:30
jklinders
-
- Members
- 502 messages
Symbol117 wrote...
I dunno if we're on topic or offtopic myself...and I created this thread.
I think intelligence is both easy and hard to define and categorize. There are so many subjective interpretations, many which I believe are situational. For example: You take a bushman from Africa and have him do a IQ test, I can almost guarantee that he would fail it, or not even complete it. Does that make him dumb? I don't think he would be in his own enviroment. Intelligence doesn't really translate well from one area to another.
...am I off topic?
Well our IQ tests have a math and language component. Get those out of the way, I'll bet most bushmen would outperform us in spatial awareness and pattern analysis, given that those are a much more important part of their daily life. Any intelligence measure needs a cultural gauge.
the metal working of bronze age Greece is gaining a ne wappreciation with modern historians. They were incredibly skilled craftsmen that made things we have a hard time replicating even with modern tools. the ancients were not stupid and niether is the bushman in your example.
#160
Guest_Solomen052_*
Posté 21 mars 2010 - 10:44
Guest_Solomen052_*
Guest_Solomen052_*
-
- Guests
EDI: The computer is your friend citizen. Please report to the airlock for immediate termination.
This is a joke.
This is a joke.
#161
Posté 21 mars 2010 - 10:48
Symbolz
-
- Members
- 655 messages
jklinders wrote...
Well our IQ tests have a math and language component. Get those out of the way, I'll bet most bushmen would outperform us in spatial awareness and pattern analysis, given that those are a much more important part of their daily life. Any intelligence measure needs a cultural gauge.
the metal working of bronze age Greece is gaining a ne wappreciation with modern historians. They were incredibly skilled craftsmen that made things we have a hard time replicating even with modern tools. the ancients were not stupid and niether is the bushman in your example.
Oh for sure! That's what I was trying to convey is what we think is intelligent may not translate well for us to understand. What we may see as some heathen might probably well be a savant for his/her culture. I have no illusions myself if I were dropped even into a place like downtown LA that I would survive.
I do have a huge respect for ancient cultures...probably why I have such a fasination with history. The things they accomplished without modern equipment is nothing short of amazing. Brilliant, brilliant minds. Even today we still don't know what combination of material to make Greece Fire. A fire that burns on water. That's genuis!
#162
Posté 21 mars 2010 - 10:56
jklinders
-
- Members
- 502 messages
Symbol117 wrote...
jklinders wrote...
Well our IQ tests have a math and language component. Get those out of the way, I'll bet most bushmen would outperform us in spatial awareness and pattern analysis, given that those are a much more important part of their daily life. Any intelligence measure needs a cultural gauge.
the metal working of bronze age Greece is gaining a ne wappreciation with modern historians. They were incredibly skilled craftsmen that made things we have a hard time replicating even with modern tools. the ancients were not stupid and niether is the bushman in your example.
Oh for sure! That's what I was trying to convey is what we think is intelligent may not translate well for us to understand. What we may see as some heathen might probably well be a savant for his/her culture. I have no illusions myself if I were dropped even into a place like downtown LA that I would survive.
I do have a huge respect for ancient cultures...probably why I have such a fasination with history. The things they accomplished without modern equipment is nothing short of amazing. Brilliant, brilliant minds. Even today we still don't know what combination of material to make Greece Fire. A fire that burns on water. That's genuis!
Well a few people think they may have figured greek fire out at least. I doubt you could find someone to hand make a sword with period materials that was still as strong and sharp as the day it was made after rotting in a tomb for 3000 years though. Likewise with mayan astronomy(no 2012 comments please), no telscopes just a lot of time and observation.
Hmmmm, Ok open question for the group. If intelligence is based partially on cultural context and the first AI is a culture of one, how is it's intelligence assessed.
*rubs slightly throbbing temples*
#163
Posté 21 mars 2010 - 11:09
Symbolz
-
- Members
- 655 messages
jklinders wrote...
Hmmmm, Ok open question for the group. If intelligence is based partially on cultural context and the first AI is a culture of one, how is it's intelligence assessed.
That's a good one. As is it's hard enough without applying varient like culture. That would be interesting new way to look at AIs. LOL. A Jamacinan AI would crack me up, "Hey Sheperd mon. What's this bobbaclot of a pliot doin'? I'm going to eject this fool out da airlock, seen?"
#164
Posté 21 mars 2010 - 11:14
Symbolz
-
- Members
- 655 messages
Well looks like I'll have to continue this discussion tomorrow. Have to pack up my laptop and get rdy for the end of my shift.
Culturally based AIs....discuss....go!
Culturally based AIs....discuss....go!
