194 réponses à ce sujet

[Alikain]

I think both Flemeth and Morrigan played as. think about it, flemeth show Morrigan how to do the ritual to begin with, and send her away with the warden. the question we should be asking is who is Morrigan. could it be that she is Flemeth and why does she want a God child.

[VampireCommando]

i didnt care, my character loved her, and you never know, she could turn out to be a good mother, and i think that she will raise the child well as it would constantly remind her of me, 'her love' as she once said and that i belive would make her have slightly noble intentions with the child.

[Venatio]

I had at first suspected as much, but it turns out that Morrigan has a soft spot according to Gaider:


http://aimostudio.com/index2.htm
(scroll down and go to the Bioware log)

An interesting comic no less. Point is, Morrigan is not her mother - she is not so heartless that she would do that to her child... I would hope. She probably has other plans for it.

Modifié par Venatio, 20 mars 2010 - 10:39 .

[elearon1]

The answer for my character? She didn't want to die to stop the Blight, so she took this opportunity when it was provided for her. Selfish? Yes. But no one said my character had to become a bleeding heart, self sacrificing hero - she joined the Wardens in order to get out of a murder rap, after all.

[thegreateski]

"Hmm . . . death is not in my job description. Bend over Morrigan."



As you can tell my PC is very likable fellow.

[Zhijn]

Ahh im such a sucker for Morrigan.
I like how she warms up around the hole "romance" deal, but still acts very fleeing.

What a challenge!. Uh what.

the "i disagree to everything" is rather annoying tho.

Just to bad DAO2 probably wont have a import feature (atleast i think i read that). So any unfinish issues with Morrigan and the godlike child will be likely be dealt with by someone else (or mabye another expansion?).

[Avissel]

I wouldn't discount DA2 using an import. While there has been no Official statement ether way. it's kind of a large feature to never make use of.

[frostajulie]

Morrigan is almost always my soul sister. She is not evil but she is a product of her upbringing. Morrigan is not socially charismatic, she is a wild and free spirited woman with a heavy and well earned distrust towards society and people in general. Most of Ferelden would slaughter her for no wrongdoing on her part other than what she is a mage not under the chantry's control. My PC's always grow to love her and we are all saddenned that she leaves us in the end bit we understand she is an apostate with a god baby to protect. I beleieve she is thinking of all the other people forced to suffer under the dominion of the Chantry and her plan for the god baby is somehow tied to preserving the old god and beginning some kind of revolution to bring freedowm and choice to a second class society; the mages.



I always perform the ritual because we believe in Morrigan. And we always wish her the best.

[Venatio]

Avissel wrote...

I wouldn't discount DA2 using an import. While there has been no Official statement ether way. it's kind of a large feature to never make use of.

Agreed, if Bioware can free up some resources they can focus on making the import function for DA2 all that it can be. It would be awesome if you could bring over characters from both Origins and Awakening, mix up the party a bit along with some new blood.

[Gill Kaiser]

This is a stupid topic. Flemeth merely takes new bodies, not new souls. The thing that gives Morrigan's child its power is the soul of an Old God. If Flemeth tried to use the child as a host, it would negate the entire point of the affair.

Also, Morrigan cannot take new bodies the way Flemeth can because she isn't an abomination whose very existence is based upon possession.

Morrigan simply wants to raise the child to suit her needs. Mythology is full of stories of children of power being born and raised for great purpose by a witch-mother. Look at Arthurian legend.

[MEUTRIERE]

Save life, become Queen now.  Worry about god-babies later. 

Modifié par MEUTRIERE, 21 mars 2010 - 02:27 .

[Livemmo]

bobobo878 wrote...

No, no, no. Flemeth is going to decide to skip a generation and possess the baby. She will than proceed to murder Morrigan.

This was flemeth's plan all along. Dying in dragon form was just a setback!

[Fishy]

elearon1 wrote...

The answer for my character? She didn't want to die to stop the Blight, so she took this opportunity when it was provided for her. Selfish? Yes. But no one said my character had to become a bleeding heart, self sacrificing hero - she joined the Wardens in order to get out of a murder rap, after all.

Yeah like Morrigan said.No Warden before had the choice unlike you . Bah personnaly i'm giving up with Morrgan god thing .. It's can be many thing.i just don't want to play has a god-baby.Playing has my son would feel stupid!

[Red Frostraven]

Look at the facts, people.
Start with the final dialogue.

Have these two questions in mind:
1: Does she intend to posses the body of the child bodysnatcher style?
2: Does she intend to let Flemeth enter the child bodysnatcher style?
Then look at her answers.
Ask her away to your heart's desire, and tell me...
does she ever promise to NOT harm the child, or even suggest that she won't pull a flemeth?
It was because I feared she might pull a flemeth I investigated the whole tree this time...

Then. Let's rant a bit about how demons change bodies.
1: Bodies possessed by demons, change.
a) Abominations
A regular dragon changed into the final boss in Origins through possession by the archdemon.

2: The archdemon is a demon x10 -- so whatever the child is, it's body will be a lot more powerful through changes.
Heck. How do we know that the child IS human in the first place with a shapechanger as it's mother and a shapechanger legend as it's grandmother?
They may just as well be dragon shapechangers for all we know.
AND then there's the fact that the archdemon possessed a mature dragon.
How will a child DEVELOP with the soul of an old god, when full grown creatures can change a whole lot?

3: Whatever the child becomes, the body may be somewhat more powerful and have more potential than a regular human.
Coupled with the talents of a century old mage, extraordinary potential can go a long way.

------

To whomever said that Morrigan doesn't want power over others...
1: What was her opinion on the anvil? Forge some more golems, build an army out of OTHER PEOPLE and lock their wills!

2: What was her opinion on the slavers? They were having a fine business.

3: Killing innocent elven slaves to get a minor health boost? Morrigan APPROVES.
Killing the innocent for a minor health boost is, Evil.
Enslaving the innocent for an army of golems is, Evil.
Morrigan is, Evil.

----------------------

Modifié par Red Frostraven, 21 mars 2010 - 02:38 .

[Lethias]

Well i agree, i don't want to sacrifice myself, seriously, no one told me that will be necessary. Also my mage didn't even choose to be a grey warden so, rly not in the mood to sacrifice myself after working so much for ferelden, and i wanted Alistair as king, and if i let him sacrifice himself then half ferelden will blame me anyway. Plus my character loved Morrigan and she asked so nicely

Also keeping the anvil isn't evil as far as someone only make people golems who volunteer, because let's face it it's a great weapon againt the darkspawn. Sometimes you are in a situation where you can't just throw away something that powerful because of moral.

And Morrigan said that she won't use the child to attack Ferelden, and she said it won't be evil etc. I understand that she is a quite selfish and don't care about moral, but she isn't that lunatic killer or tipical evil person.

(Edited)

Modifié par Lethias, 21 mars 2010 - 02:45 .

[krylo]

Red Frostraven wrote...
does she ever promise to NOT harm the child

Yes.  You can ask her this, and she confirms that the child will not come to harm.

or even suggest that she won't pull a flemeth?

Yes.  When she finds out how Flemeth jumps bodies, you can suggest it would be useful.  She informs you it is not unless you are a centuries old abomination--which she isn't.

It was because I feared she might pull a flemeth I investigated the
whole tree this time...

Then why are you asking if she says the child won't be hurt, with the assumption she doesn't?  When she very clearly does.

A regular dragon changed into the final boss in Origins through possession by the archdemon.

False.

The Old Gods of Tevinter were in the forms of dragon from day one.

2: The archdemon is a demon x10 -- so whatever the child is, it's body will be a lot more powerful through changes.

False again.  The Old Gods are never suggested to be powerful fade spirits in the game.  They are suggested, occassionally, at being extremely powerful and intelligent dragons, or an entirely different being--but it is never suggested that their true form lays within the fade.

Heck. How do we know that the child IS human in the first place with a shapechanger as it's mother and a shapechanger legend as it's grandmother?

More evidence you didn't explore the dialogue tree.  Morrigan tells you, in the same line in which she tells you that she won't hurt the child, that it could hardly be called a child after a day.  This may be metaphorical, referencing it's soul.  It may be literal referencing the Old God's ability to make it's host body resemble its original body.

They may just as well be dragon shapechangers for all we know.

Dragons have roughly the intelligence of a dolphin, and don't use magic in Thedas.

Read codexes more.

AND then there's the fact that the archdemon possessed a mature dragon.

Again: No it didn't.  Read more codexes.  The archdemon was Urthemiel, Old God of the Tevinter.  The Tevinters that turned to dragon worship after their gods vanished because they so resembled their gods.  The Old Gods don't possess dragon bodies--that is their natural form.


In conclusion--You've obviously only played the game once, and didn't actually bother learning the lore.

Please play through again, and learn the lore before attempting further theory-crafting.

Modifié par krylo, 21 mars 2010 - 02:56 .

[VampireCommando]

krylo wrote...

Red Frostraven wrote...
does she ever promise to NOT harm the child

Yes.  You can ask her this, and she confirms that the child will not come to harm.

or even suggest that she won't pull a flemeth?

Yes.  When she finds out how Flemeth jumps bodies, you can suggest it would be useful.  She informs you it is not unless you are a centuries old abomination--which she isn't.

It was because I feared she might pull a flemeth I investigated the
whole tree this time...

Then why are you asking if she says the child won't be hurt, with the assumption she doesn't?  When she very clearly does.

A regular dragon changed into the final boss in Origins through possession by the archdemon.

False.

The Old Gods of Tevinter were in the forms of dragon from day one.

2: The archdemon is a demon x10 -- so whatever the child is, it's body will be a lot more powerful through changes.

False again.  The Old Gods are never suggested to be powerful fade spirits in the game.  They are suggested, occassionally, at being extremely powerful and intelligent dragons, or an entirely different being--but it is never suggested that their true form lays within the fade.
6

Heck. How do we know that the child IS human in the first place with a shapechanger as it's mother and a shapechanger legend as it's grandmother?

More evidence you didn't explore the dialogue tree.  Morrigan tells you, in the same line in which she tells you that she won't hurt the child, that it could hardly be called a child after a day.  This may be metaphorical, referencing it's soul.  It may be literal referencing the Old God's ability to make it's host body resemble its original body.

They may just as well be dragon shapechangers for all we know.

Dragons have roughly the intelligence of a dolphin, and don't use magic in Thedas.

Read codexes more.

AND then there's the fact that the archdemon possessed a mature dragon.

Again: No it didn't.  Read more codexes.  The archdemon was Urthemiel, Old God of the Tevinter.  The Tevinters that turned to dragon worship after their gods vanished because they so resembled their gods.  The Old Gods don't possess dragon bodies--that is their natural form.


In conclusion--You've obviously only played the game once, and didn't actually bother learning the lore.

Please play through again, and learn the lore before attempting further theory-crafting.

LOL looks like some one didnt do there homework very well, oh well morrigan is just, well one of the most compeling characters that i have ever interacted with, in short she rules. . . and the face that my PC is madly in love with her still and WILL fine her one day, - that ring has to do something useful- grrrrrrrr

[Red Frostraven]

The line where you believe she sais she won't harm the child is the very REASON I made this topic, because she doesn't say she won't harm it.



She evades the question entirely and then sais something along the lines of "the most part of the child won't get hurt".



Besides, in that dialogue, she reveales that the dark ritual is the reason Flemeth saved the Warden.



But finding the dialogue tree has proven to be a royal pain:

The wiki has every single voice-only dialogue with morrigan and the partymembers, and every single dialogue EXCEPT the dark ritual.

[J-Reyno]

Morrigan may not be actively evil, in a sense, but she is morally opportunistic enough to do and allow evil. She wants to come out ahead. That's how I see her.

And who says that a soul=power? Morrigan seeks the essence of the old god. How do we know the possession ritual doesn't also preserve that essence even if the child itself loses its soul? We don't know what constitutes this essence, and it's feasible to think she desires the power it brings for some purpose. I highly doubt that she simply wants it around, you know, to hang out. Of course that doesn't mean she intends to perform the ritual, but she definitely wants to do something. Perhaps she wants to create being as powerful as the corrupted old gods in order to battle/destroy them. Though please believe that she'll hardly be doing so just to be a savior, and what to do with her in the future will be a morally ambiguous decision.

As far as why I did it, my character didn't want to die, neither did he want his best friend to die. Simple.

[krylo]

Red Frostraven wrote...

The line where you believe she sais she won't harm the child is the very REASON I made this topic, because she doesn't say she won't harm it.

She evades the question entirely and then sais something along the lines of "the most part of the child won't get hurt".

Besides, in that dialogue, she reveales that the dark ritual is the reason Flemeth saved the Warden.

But finding the dialogue tree has proven to be a royal pain:
The wiki has every single voice-only dialogue with morrigan and the partymembers, and every single dialogue EXCEPT the dark ritual.

Pulled from youtube after minimal searching:



That's not an evasion.  That's very clearly saying that, no, the child will not be hurt.

[Urazz]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Morrigan can't do the ritual anyway. When she tells you she found out how her mother lived so long and before she tells you about the body-snatching, you can ask her if she can use it too and she says something about how she could if she were a centuries-old abomination.

Yeah that was my thought on why she can't do it.  She's not an abomination like Flemeth is and so Flemeth's ritual to switch bodies probably won't work for Morrigan or other mages.

Gill Kaiser wrote...

This is a stupid topic. Flemeth merely takes new bodies, not new souls. The thing that gives Morrigan's child its power is the soul of an Old God. If Flemeth tried to use the child as a host, it would negate the entire point of the affair.
Also, Morrigan cannot take new bodies the way Flemeth can because she isn't an abomination whose very existence is based upon possession.
Morrigan simply wants to raise the child to suit her needs. Mythology is full of stories of children of power being born and raised for great purpose by a witch-mother. Look at Arthurian legend.

I do agree the soul probably is a major factor of the mage's power but I'm thinking it'll also effect the child's body as well and allow it to be more powerful as well to contain the soul.

Modifié par Urazz, 21 mars 2010 - 03:31 .

[Red Frostraven]

the child will not be hurt....it will be changed.

And that is not evasive and or questionable, coming from a woman who endorse murder of innocent slaves to gain a minor health increase through a ritual performed by a slaver??

We need her definition of hurt, and her definition of changed -- because that witch is vile.

It's also worth mentioning that she refers to the child's soul as a possession within the child, rather than a part of the child.
She more than indicates that the soul of the old god is precious.

"Changed", worries me, coming from a bodysnatching shapeshifter.

Modifié par Red Frostraven, 21 mars 2010 - 03:42 .

[KendallX23]

i am thinking a scenario played before in other games/movies....the child beeing an Old God in a human body will grow out of control...so not even Morrigan will be able to do anything about it...and he will unite the darkspawn to attack.Morrigan will turn to u for help..feeling very sorry for something she though will never happen nor that it was her wish.

Hey...it might happen and it would make for a nice story..

[Efesell]

It really doesn't seem like anything terrible would befall the child.



The bigger concern might be allowing Morrigan to have influence over such a (potentially) powerful being, but that doesn't bother me enough to play martyr.

[krylo]

Red Frostraven wrote...

because that witch is vile.

And at this point I'm done.

There's no arguing logic or reason with people with strong personal biases.

Do another play through.

Romance her, or even just befriend her.

Pay attention to facial expressions.

Might also want to put her on the team to get you out of Fort Drakon, just to see how 'good' she is at lying.