194 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

And that is not evasive and or questionable, coming from a woman who endorse murder of innocent slaves to gain a minor health increase through a ritual performed by a slaver??

The difference is, she sees the slaves as too weak to defend themselves and the Old God as strong enough to preserve. Her version of morality is mostly based on strength, after all. If the elves had broken free of the cages by the time you arrived or during the fight and were wiping the floor with the slavers and the blood mage offered to sacrifice their lives in exchange for saving him, Morrigan wouldn't be so quick to approve.

[Addai]

Red Frostraven wrote...

The line where you believe she sais she won't harm the child is the very REASON I made this topic, because she doesn't say she won't harm it.

She evades the question entirely and then sais something along the lines of "the most part of the child won't get hurt".

??  She says "leaving aside the fact that after one day the child can barely be called a child, no, it will not be hurt.  It will be changed."

So she does, in fact, say that the chlld will not be hurt.

Besides, in that dialogue, she reveales that the dark ritual is the reason Flemeth saved the Warden.

And?

[KnightofPhoenix]

krylo wrote...

Red Frostraven wrote...

because that witch is vile.

And at this point I'm done.

There's no arguing logic or reason with people with strong personal biases.

I am surprised that you even considered going in in the first place. It was clear from the first post that the op didn't seem to understand the lore well, nor the character of Morrigan.

[krylo]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

krylo wrote...

Red Frostraven wrote...

because that witch is vile.

And at this point I'm done.

There's no arguing logic or reason with people with strong personal biases.

I am surprised that you even considered going in in the first place. It was clear from the first post that the op didn't seem to understand the lore well, nor the character of Morrigan.

I'm bored, involved in some IMs and prefer to play games full screen, and arguing about DA is kind of fun.

The obvious bias just wasn't frustrating/annoying enough to over ride my need to find something to do until then.

[Addai]

Red Frostraven wrote...

And that is not evasive and or questionable, coming from a woman who endorse murder of innocent slaves to gain a minor health increase through a ritual performed by a slaver??

I don't think anyone would say that the ritual is not questionable.  Obviously it is mysterious and unsettling.  I believe you misunderstand Morrigan's point of view, however.  She sees power as means of survival.  The Wardens, as she knows better than you do at that point and as Flemeth has known since long before your PC's time, are the only ones who can defeat the Blight.  What she suggests is terrible, obviously, but there is rationale for her to propose it beyond something so simple-minded as "that witch is vile."

You don't see Morrigan going around killing people wantonly to gain blood magic power, do you?  She specifically distinguishes herself from maleficar and abhors the methods of darker mages, including her mother.  For instance, she tells Leliana that her mother's stories chilled her blood and haunted her dreams, and that she dreaded being told she had to participate in the sex games her mother played with (presumably) Chasind men.

It's also worth mentioning that she refers to the child's soul as a possession within the child, rather than a part of the child.
She more than indicates that the soul of the old god is precious.

I don't follow you here.  What are you trying to say?

You might be interested in this comic which depicts a scene that was going to have been put into the game but ended up being left out.  it was intended to show that Morrigan had difficulty going through with the ritual.

[J-Reyno]

Sarah1281 wrote...

The difference is, she sees the slaves as too weak to defend themselves and the Old God as strong enough to preserve. Her version of morality is mostly based on strength, after all. If the elves had broken free of the cages by the time you arrived or during the fight and were wiping the floor with the slavers and the blood mage offered to sacrifice their lives in exchange for saving him, Morrigan wouldn't be so quick to approve.

I'm not saying she's evil but honestly, that would hardly make a difference as a point to argue otherwise.

Anyhow, Morrigan is simply a questionable character. So what if she can come to love the Warden and show sincere feelings. Her love is prejudice, at best.

Also, taking her at her word is foolish.

[Darthnemesis2]

Because my PC (who did the ritual) was IN LOVE WITH HER and will chase her across the world to find her and his kid. My other guy said f u to Morrigan, let Alistair kill the dragon and then rode off into the sunset with Zevran.

[Thalorin1919]

My character did it out of love. Even though Morrigan didnt really show that she wanted to save your life more then just getting this kid. David Gaider wrote a little comic story with some girl I cant remember drawing them out.



Even though the comic is based where the warden is female - in a lovely relationship with Alistair - and Morrigan's only friend. The comic basically showed Morrigan crying cause she wanted to have this god baby, but didnt want to hurt the wardens feelings by sleeping with Alistair.



I really wish they showed that scene in the game, but he said they decided to scrap it. Retarded. >.>

[Red Frostraven]

krylo wrote...

Red Frostraven wrote...

because that witch is vile.

And at this point I'm done.

There's no arguing logic or reason with people with strong personal biases.

PERSONAL biases?

Even Loghain is purer than Morrigan.

Let's make a short list..:

-She WANTS the warden to enslave souls of the innocents into golems, KNOWING that enslaving them traps them and controls them.
No respect for the living.

-She APPROVES if the warden kills innocent elven slaves to gain a minor health boost.
No respect for the living.

-She approves of killing Connor, knowing there's two better alternatives where one leads to noone getting killed.

And that is from the top of my head, and I've yet to play through the game as an evil character... I'm sure there's more definately evil acts she agree to.

Sten is practical and honest, and is rather neutral.

Morrigan is dishonest, stupid and rather evil.
Stupid, because she lacks the mental capacity of realizing the concept of strength in numbers: she disapproves of dialogue choices that leads to YOU getting power because you did not intimdate or hurt anyone to acchieve that power.
She's a brute savage, and evil: Growing up in the wilds does not excuse you for supporting plain out senseless murder, slavery, imprisonment and forcing other people's wills for temporary personal gain.

She's not a cat playing with mice, she is a rat playing with mice, not realizing that there's cats in the world, and that she's a rodent herself.

You don't see Morrigan going around killing people wantonly to gain blood magic power, do you?

That depends upon the order you do the quests.
You could easily complete about 10 quests in a row where she approves of you putting a dagger up someones' belly for no other reason than because you can.
(Ignoring the fact that my warden could slay her just as easily, which shows a serious lack of character and insight, her walking around without armor around someone immune to her magic.)

Furthermore, she may not have problems with the ritual, but leaving the warden permanently after traveling with him or her for an effing year and growing more as a character faster in that year than she ever did with her mother in the wild.
She gained power at 10 times the rate she did with her mother, with the warden.
Ultimately, being sad for leaving someone MAY be a selfish act; self-pity, or having a part of her life she liked come to an end.
She might even be sad for FAILING.

Finally: even Darth Vader cares about those he love.
Even evil people care about their friends.
That doesn't mean he didn't build the Death Star.

...
Perhaps she'll be less sadistic, short-sighted and vile in the next game.
She approves of killing connor for god's sake, when you could be trading for power with the demon!!

Modifié par Red Frostraven, 21 mars 2010 - 11:33 .

[CerebusAlteri]

know why i loved morrigan? her strength of character. and you know when? the fade everyone was taken in including wynne, i had her on my team your results may vary, but mrs wynne expert on the fade, has a guardian spirit within her that supposedly protects her, is totally duped by the fade and sitting there like a babbling idiot, like allister,. then i come upon morrigan light of my life, beacon in the darkness she is telling her fade mother to go bleep herself. and asks me to kill it so she can get some peace and quiet ;P.



i was like you know what all other faults aside, i did not have to spend any time all trying to convince her we were in the fade. she knew full well where she was and what was happening and was the only party member to not act like a idiot.



and yea she is not against killing a few innocents to gain power, through blood magic or dark magic or whatever. but a decent ability of persuasion you can make her see things form the other side and she does not hate your decisions when destroy the anvil, really funny when you tell her you might use her to make a golem, and she says you would never! and you say if all i cared about was power i might.



not like she wasnt raised to want power and need it no matter the cost, not like she was not raised by a demon abomination that told her stores of eating the men she had sex with. and using her daughter to lure men to their deaths. or that she had any positive upbringing at all.



you can change her thru your actions like you can most party members in dao yea it is not a startling change but you can get her to see things through the eyes of the weak just a little bit. and at the very end she really seems to genuinely care about you, and is not just using you.



and beside i was not letting her sleep with emo allistar or loghain if anyone is doing the deed i am and i will live with the consequences. and i will spend the rest of my days resisting the taint and seeking her out and my child.



morrigan forever.

[Behindyounow]

Red Frostraven wrote...

She approves of killing connor for god's sake, when you could be trading for power with the demon!!

This. She's more of an evil for evil's sake, than doing it for power, like a smart person. She reeks of chaotic stupid to me.

[Red Frostraven]

krylo wrote...

2: The archdemon is a demon x10 -- so whatever the child is, it's body will be a lot more powerful through changes.

False again.  The Old Gods are never suggested to be powerful fade spirits in the game.  They are suggested, occassionally, at being extremely powerful and intelligent dragons, or an entirely different being--but it is never suggested that their true form lays within the fade.

Heck. How do we know that the child IS human in the first place with a shapechanger as it's mother and a shapechanger legend as it's grandmother?

More evidence you didn't explore the dialogue tree.  Morrigan tells you, in the same line in which she tells you that she won't hurt the child, that it could hardly be called a child after a day.  This may be metaphorical, referencing it's soul.  It may be literal referencing the Old God's ability to make it's host body resemble its original body.

They may just as well be dragon shapechangers for all we know.

Dragons have roughly the intelligence of a dolphin, and don't use magic in Thedas.

Read codexes more.

AND then there's the fact that the archdemon possessed a mature dragon.

Again: No it didn't.  Read more codexes.  The archdemon was Urthemiel, Old God of the Tevinter.  The Tevinters that turned to dragon worship after their gods vanished because they so resembled their gods.  The Old Gods don't possess dragon bodies--that is their natural form.


In conclusion--You've obviously only played the game once, and didn't actually bother learning the lore.

Please play through again, and learn the lore before attempting further theory-crafting.

To me, it seemed that the archdemon was about ten times as powerful as any demon I encountered. I know archdemons aren't from the fade, but I was misled into believing they possesed dragons by some random word of mouth in the lines of "the archdemon is a corrupted dragon".
They're the old gods, who are some sort of dragons, corrupted by the darkspawn.
That doesn't change the fact that they're ten times more powerful than demons from the fade.
The fact that the corrupted old god in Origins is the old god of beauty kind of supports my view that there is a slight corruption in the picture here.
...
If that dragon is the god of beauty in it's current form, nothing would stop Wayne Knight from being the "god of athletics and maintaining a healthy diet".

What morrigan sais and what morrigan means is two different things. She doesn't lie, but then again -- how can we be sure she won't at some point?
When she sais the child will hardly be a child after a day...
It will be an old god's soul in a body. But would that body be a human child, is my question.
That, she didn't answer properly.
She doesn't lie, but she is dishonest.

Furthermore, she knows the ritual without the grimoires: If you keep one of the tomes, either one, she will still perform the ritual.
If it's possible to hang onto both of them, she will still know the ritual.

Modifié par Red Frostraven, 21 mars 2010 - 11:59 .

[Koralis]

Red Frostraven wrote...
-She WANTS the warden to enslave souls of the innocents into golems, KNOWING that enslaving them traps them and controls them.
No respect for the living.

Note that Carradin began by accepting volunteers.  Shale was a volunteer, hence the reason for her name on the monument in her loyalty quest.  It was only later that the king got power hungry and started pressing dwarves into service that didn't volunteer.  A just ruler could also order that no control rods be used, so that golems have free will.  Shale seems pretty happy with being a golem so long as she isn't a servant, but a real person.

Just because a weapon CAN be used in an evil way doesn't mean that the weapon itself is evil.  Morrigan knows that it's a HUGELY powerful tool, and could mean the difference between beating the blight or not... if you were to die before reaching the archdemon, then you'd be second-guessing the decision to trash the anvil.  

-She APPROVES if the warden kills innocent elven slaves to gain a minor health boost.
No respect for the living.

She believes in Survival-of-the-fittest... the slaves aren't fit at all, and will not be facing a darkspawn hoard like you will.  If a little more health makes the difference in success or not, then the sacrifice of the elves in this would no more lead to their death than pressing them into service to be fodder for darkspawn to help you save the world.

Somewhat more questionable, but in the "doing whatever it takes" camp, it's rational.  Rational vs good and evil are different beasts.

-She approves of killing Connor, knowing there's two better alternatives where one leads to noone getting killed.

She doesn't know that at all.

1) Kill Connor
2) Kill Isolde
3) Travel to the mage's circle and hope that Conner doesn't kill everyone in the castle while you're away.  The game specifically mentions that it's a risk.  The fact that the game doesn't make it "risky" is beside the point... Morrigan can't know the meta-game.

If you had chosen 3, and everyone in the castle was slaughtered and Conner was loose in the world to kill indiscriminantly, you'd feel quite the fool.   Conner will still have to die eventually, and he's taken  hundreds with him.

She approves of killing connor for god's sake, when you could be trading for power with the demon!!

And bargaining with demons never ends well.    The fact that the game allows us to push off the consequences so far out so that we don't have to deal with it makes the deal seem pretty good.  In 30 years time, or whenever the demon returns, and it starts slaughtering everyone, it may seem a bit different.

Morrigan could very well fear a trick that would lead to HER becoming an abomination, and hence not even being willing to consider a demonic bargain.

Modifié par Koralis, 21 mars 2010 - 12:11 .

[Red Frostraven]

dream_operator23 wrote...

When you ask if the child will be harmed, her response refers to whether it will be harmed by absorbing the soul of the archdemon...she is not talking about later in the child's life. You can tell because she says that you can't even call it a child yet, so she is obviously referring to the embryo.

I only did the ritual once with Morrigan, because that character had come to rely on her so much and really needed her with him in the final battle. I don't like to do the ritual if I can finish without her because she flat out refuses to tell you what she will do with the child and to me that doesn't bode well for future events.

When she sais "Ignoring that after but one night IT could hardly be called a child..."
That DOES maintain it's original meaning if you rewrite it as both:
1: "the child will hardly be a child one day after birth"
2: "the child will hardly be a child one day after conception"

You are right.
She may be evading the question by nine freaking months.

[Deuterium_Dawn]

Addai67 wrote...

You're missing a few things here. Flemeth keeps her soul and possesses the body of her daughter, "overwriting" the soul of the daughter with her own. The point of Morrigan's ritual is to save the *soul* of an old god. What would be the point of possessing the body of a Cousland or Alistair child and overwriting the old god's soul?

As for the ending, how does this sound: Morrigan's god-baby aids you in saving the world from an even greater threat?

Or it encounters darkspawn, becomes an Archdemon(again) and starts another blight. It may be the child of  a Gray Warden, but that doesn't make it a Gray Warden, or immune to the taint. And the Old Gods were hardly benevolent to begin with, teaching the Tevinters the blood magic with which they build their abominable empire and supposedly tricking them into storming the Fade.

Dragons have roughly the intelligence of a dolphin, and don't use magic
in Thedas.

Read codexes more.

I did actually, and if you read the one on Dragon Cults, it speculates on the intelligence of dragons, and doesn't make any decisive statements as you claim.

Modifié par Deuterium_Dawn, 21 mars 2010 - 12:18 .

[Layn]

Thalorin1919 wrote...

My character did it out of love. Even though Morrigan didnt really show that she wanted to save your life more then just getting this kid. David Gaider wrote a little comic story with some girl I cant remember drawing them out.

Even though the comic is based where the warden is female - in a lovely relationship with Alistair - and Morrigan's only friend. The comic basically showed Morrigan crying cause she wanted to have this god baby, but didnt want to hurt the wardens feelings by sleeping with Alistair.

I really wish they showed that scene in the game, but he said they decided to scrap it. Retarded. >.>

what? she clearly said that she offered the ritual because she believed it would help her friend, even though it might be a horrible thing to ask (now what did she mean with horrible? asking to have sex with her friends boyfriend? creating the old god child? or was she just afraid the warden would take the question the wrong way?)

Modifié par Crrash, 21 mars 2010 - 12:33 .

[Red Frostraven]

Koralis wrote...

Red Frostraven wrote...
-She WANTS the warden to enslave souls of the innocents into golems, KNOWING that enslaving them traps them and controls them.
No respect for the living.

1: Note that Carradin began by accepting volunteers.  Shale was a volunteer, hence the reason for her name on the monument in her loyalty quest.  It was only later that the king got power hungry and started pressing dwarves into service that didn't volunteer.  A just ruler could also order that no control rods be used, so that golems have free will.  Shale seems pretty happy with being a golem so long as she isn't a servant, but a real person.

Just because a weapon CAN be used in an evil way doesn't mean that the weapon itself is evil.  Morrigan knows that it's a HUGELY powerful tool, and could mean the difference between beating the blight or not... if you were to die before reaching the archdemon, then you'd be second-guessing the decision to trash the anvil.  

-She APPROVES if the warden kills innocent elven slaves to gain a minor health boost.
No respect for the living.

2: She believes in Survival-of-the-fittest... the slaves aren't fit at all, and will not be facing a darkspawn hoard like you will.  If a little more health makes the difference in success or not, then the sacrifice of the elves in this would no more lead to their death than pressing them into service to be fodder for darkspawn to help you save the world.

Somewhat more questionable, but in the "doing whatever it takes" camp, it's rational.  Rational vs good and evil are different beasts.

-She approves of killing Connor, knowing there's two better alternatives where one leads to noone getting killed.

3: She doesn't know that at all.

1) Kill Connor
2) Kill Isolde
3) Travel to the mage's circle and hope that Conner doesn't kill everyone in the castle while you're away.  The game specifically mentions that it's a risk.  The fact that the game doesn't make it "risky" is beside the point... Morrigan can't know the meta-game.

If you had chosen 3, and everyone in the castle was slaughtered and Conner was loose in the world to kill indiscriminantly, you'd feel quite the fool.   Conner will still have to die eventually, and he's taken  hundreds with him.

She approves of killing connor for god's sake, when you could be trading for power with the demon!!

4: And bargaining with demons never ends well.    The fact that the game allows us to push off the consequences so far out so that we don't have to deal with it makes the deal seem pretty good.  In 30 years time, or whenever the demon returns, and it starts slaughtering everyone, it may seem a bit different.

Morrigan could very well fear a trick that would lead to HER becoming an abomination, and hence not even being willing to consider a demonic bargain.

She's Female Hitler for crying out loud!
Killing innocents because their opinions differ from yours? Check
Killing the weak and disabled? Check
Killing those she fear? Check
Killing for no other reason but because she can? Check

1: She would fuel the golems with the weak and whomever she could find, and would not object the least to sacrificing innocents to the forge.
Besides, SHE wants us to charge Loghain naked without the aid of Redcliffe, the elves or dwarves, and would probably suggest to do the same with the archdemon.
She doesn't care for armies, as long as they're not obtained through evil means.
Find me one example of her approving for getting the aid of the elves or dwarves.

She sides with the werewolves despite them obviously being weaker than the elves. (evidently, because you cut through them like a lava axe through soft butter)
... so...
She likes golems, she likes werewolves... she hates the weak who make the fight against the darkspawn POSSIBLE through their taxes and food production...
Besides. Zethran CREATED the werewolves. Doesn't she see the power in THAT?
If not, she is blind, favoring the weak product of a mage over the mage that produced that interesting product.

2: That logic is flawed. Alistair plus the warden is stronger than Morrigan. Does that mean they, in her opinion, should have the right to kill her for power?
How does she measure who is powerful enough to be allowed to live?
Had she been raised by someone else than flemeth, she might have turned out to be one of those weaklings she despises like most mages become.

3: Then she's stupid or have had her ears glued shut.
We took out the petty undead from the castle who's only strength was in numbers, and connor is under the surveilance of a small army.
She knows firsthand that power can come from demons, and she does approve of killing Isolde to enter the fade as well.
So arguing that she doesn't know the alternatives, or that she's afraid isn't true.

4: When at any point in the game did she NOT want you to bargain with demons for power?
Did she not object to letting the demon free in Asunder. She did not object to the demon possessing the man in the Mage tower.
She approves of going into the fade through Isolde's sacrifice, but NOT by the help of mages saving them both??
She must metagame to believe that bargaining with demons doesn't end well, too.
Besides, my bargain with the demon went just fine, BECAUSE I went to the mage tower and grew powerful enough to intimidate the demon to leaving and giving me more power.

Modifié par Red Frostraven, 21 mars 2010 - 12:48 .

[Red Frostraven]

Crrash wrote...

Thalorin1919 wrote...

My character did it out of love. Even though Morrigan didnt really show that she wanted to save your life more then just getting this kid. David Gaider wrote a little comic story with some girl I cant remember drawing them out.

Even though the comic is based where the warden is female - in a lovely relationship with Alistair - and Morrigan's only friend. The comic basically showed Morrigan crying cause she wanted to have this god baby, but didnt want to hurt the wardens feelings by sleeping with Alistair.

I really wish they showed that scene in the game, but he said they decided to scrap it. Retarded. >.>

what? she clearly said that she offered the ritual because she believed it would help her friend, even though it might be a horrible thing to ask (now what did she mean with horrible? asking to have sex with her friends boyfriend? creating the old god child? or was she just afraid the warden would take the question the wrong way?)

It should be mentioned that she lies, right there.

The ritual was planned from BEFORE Flemeth saved the warden, she admits this in the dialogue.
The ritual is thus business as usual, and she doesn't do it to save a friend: She does it even at minimum aproval.

And keep on to both grimoires, and Morrigan will still know the ritual.
That's TWO lies from Morrigan right there in that dialogue, which opens up for more.

Modifié par Red Frostraven, 21 mars 2010 - 12:53 .

[CerebusAlteri]

she was not too hyped to goto the fade when i made her do my first play thru, she might have been all for killing Isolde but got a bit grumpy when i asked her to head off to the fade to kill the demon.



i was against going to the mage tower, period. it made no sense to me a) the mage tower was in shambles, to hike there would have taken about a week, someone pointed out to me you could take a boat there by pursuing a line of questioning but that was not made clear by the dialogue choices.



but in my mind it would have taken far too long to go there, maybe get enough mages to help, and return, even assuming 2 days demon conner would be stupid enough to sit there twiddling his thumbs waiting for you to go to get help to expel it.



bit lazy on biowares part imo let you get away with the win win win option. should have turned into the loose loose option, because on the face of it going to mage tower was the least likely and common sense course of action. why u get payed the big bucks to make the hard decisions.

[Layn]

Red Frostraven wrote...

It should be mentioned that she lies, right there.

The ritual was planned from BEFORE Flemeth saved the warden, she admits this in the dialogue.
The ritual is thus business as usual, and she doesn't do it to save a friend: She does it even at minimum aproval.

And keep on to both grimoires, and Morrigan will still know the ritual.
That's TWO lies from Morrigan right there in that dialogue, which opens up for more.

she doesn't lie. why should she? she was really asking Alistair for an opinion on something she didn't even clarify to him.

Flemeth had planned the ritual. Flemeth sent Morrigan with the warden to do the ritual. Morrigan however doesn't have to want to do the ritual. Specially if you kill Flemeth, she can do whatever she damn well wants and the comic makes it very clear that she only suggested doing the ritual because it would save the warden.


maker's breath, this reminds me of the very very very long discussion with Lotion some months ago

[Red Frostraven]

Well. She does the ritual without having read ANY of the grimoires, with -100 approval -- or whatever the minimum is, even if the warden tells her to take a short hike off a long cliff as early as lothering.
It is metagaming to know she lies, but she DOES, and this is a metagame discussion.
She doesn't do it to save alistair or the warden: She does it for her own personal reasons independant of her approval, even if she has spent only 1 day in their party and hate the living daylight out of them both.

Modifié par Red Frostraven, 21 mars 2010 - 01:31 .

[Layn]

Red Frostraven wrote...

Well. She does the ritual without having read ANY of the grimoires, with -100 approval -- or whatever the minimum is, even if the warden tells her to take a short hike off a long cliff as early as lothering.
It is metagaming to know she lies, but she DOES, and this is a metagame discussion.
She doesn't do it to save alistair or the warden: She does it for her own personal reasons independant of her approval, even if she has spent only 1 day in their party and hate the living daylight out of them both.

well, of course, if after joining the warden:
a) Flemeth isn't killed, she might possibly do what her mother told her to do.
learned nothing but hatred, she will do it for whatever reason Flemeth wanted the child for
BUT if she actually made friends, she will do it to save them.

what i  mean is that the characters aren't static. The way you treat them influences them. Sure in the end Morrigan always asks the same question, but in every case it's with a different motivation, and it actually CAN be a good one. Her change in motivation of course will also influence what she will do with the child.

the black grimoire has nothing to do with the ritual. Flemeth told
Morrigan from the start about how it works

Modifié par Crrash, 21 mars 2010 - 01:36 .

[Red Frostraven]

Which means that Morrigan lies when she sais Flemeth intend to take over her body.
She does lie at some point.
Or at the least, she's so damned disearnest that she'd be better off lying from a moral standpoint:
Constant trickery and bickering is no better than an outright lie.

And how can her motivation be good when she does it for reasons of personal gain first, and to save the life of the warden second?

Heck, would she do it if she didn't benefit from it at all?
I think not: With 100 aproval, she's still hellbent about NOT telling the warden what she already knows about killing the archdemon.
She IS a "me first, anyone else second" character, and would never do anything for anyone else if there was no profit.

Modifié par Red Frostraven, 21 mars 2010 - 01:43 .

[Layn]

Red Frostraven wrote...

She does lie at some point.

why do you insist that she HAS to lie? she doesn't lie. she omits things once in a while, like the mission Flemeth sent her on. Sure she doesn't even tell me about it once she is free from flemeth and we are friends, but i can understand that shes afraid i would mistrust her and kick her out if she told about it.

Red Frostraven wrote...

And how can her motivation be good when she does it for reasons of personal gain first, and to save the life of the warden second?

becaaause she isn't doing it for personal gain in that particular case i stated?

Red Frostraven wrote...

Heck, would she do it if she didn't benefit from it at all?
No way.

my interpretation from the playthrough where we were best friends? yes she would.
of course in your playthrough where i suppose that you didn't become friends and she continued as hating of everyone as at the start, she would only do it for personal gain. after all, that morrigan thinks friendship is a weakness.

as i said. Her character isn't static. All she knows at the start is what Flemeth told her, mistrust of everyone she meets when she leaves and Templars who appear once in a while to kill her. After over a year travelling with a friendly warden however (one who treats her as a friend) she learns a lot more of the world and changes.
Actually similar to how Alistair and Leliana can get "hardened".

Modifié par Crrash, 21 mars 2010 - 01:55 .