293 réponses à ce sujet

[JaegerBane]

Jenocide wrote...

if you make a profit its stealing. 

That's the issue. Since nothing was paid for, *any* money gained is profit.

[Jenocide]

JaegerBane wrote...

Jenocide wrote...

Supreme Courts are wrong quite a bit though out history. And the UK / Canada / US Court all have very a differnt view's on this law.

While you're correct, I don't think that was the point Ryzaki was trying to make. He was claiming that because the supreme court treat them differently means that they must be completely different.

Logically that isn't any different to saying that because manslaughter and murder are treated differently, murder doesn't involve killing as manslaughter does. At the end of the day the basic crime is the same.

both Murder and Manslaughter involve killing someone.

if get in a fight with my wife and push her down the stairs that's manslaughter.
if i plan to kill my wife then stab her 2 week's later thats murder.
 
 killing is bad Mmm-kay.

[Synnworld]

Ryzaki wrote...

Synnworld wrote...

1. To what is in bold, read the post above yours.
2. Really the fact like games like oblivion and dao itself true potential can only be tapped and exceeded only when those who enjoy modded games can gain access to them? Unlike consoles who can only get access to downloadable content by official releases, pc gamers get that plus much more do to mods. Thousands of mods fix problems left untouched, and sometimes I do believe some stuff is left that way by the developers for the modding community to come in and fix themselves.

Oblivion- magic didn't scale well, and still doesn't on console versions. Yet, on pc versions that not only had been fixed by multible mods, hundreds of new quest, better texturing, new items, and even new areas are being added to the point where oblivion is still being played to this day. One of my favorite mods basically pulls veronica from the bauldur's gate series and places her, as well as her story and romance into oblivion (with a better ending).

dao- it is still young, but there are already some decent mods out there, my current facorite is the shapeshifter mod and respec mod. I said it once and I'll say it again, high dragon and desire demon form FTW!

In this day in age fora game to survive on pc then it has to be moddable.

1 is a joke and personal preference. That wasn't supposed to be taken seriously. 2...is actually true. PC versions may have more longevity but for the most part the console versions outsell the PC versions by large margins. Even DA's console versions outsold the PC version I believe. Though DA console versions are a joke. Really guys. Some of these bugs need to be fixed. I'm sick of having people complain  to me about the Dex bug. (Frankly I told him to just make a warrior instead but instead he complains *shrugs*) framrate issues. And I notice something funny console gamers are a lot more likely to be unforgiving about graphics than PC gamers are. Which...is hilarious ironic considieng PC has better graphics most of the time.

Though PC gaming has been dying an awful long tim. Someone needs to hurry up and end it already. Must be in so much agony by this point.

The reason console outsells pc is because console is played more then pc; which is one reason it is easier to get away with adult content on a pc game then a console one. While Pc do have better graphics majority of the time, it is also one of the biggest problems that go against pc gaming. To keep those graphic s up to date, one has to constantly update their hard drive, while console gamers have the luxury of not being bothered with this problem. I had bought demigod at full price but was unable to play it for about 5-6 months until I had got my new labtop. My graphics card just could not handle the game, and currently I lag so hard on divinity 2 that it has simply become a waste of money. I can't argue with the dude not wanting to be a warrior as I find none mage characters in just about every none fighting game I play boring as hell to use, especially in a rpg.

PC gaming will never die:wizard::wizard:

Jenocide wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Jenocide wrote...

Supreme
Courts are wrong quite a bit though out history. And the UK / Canada /
US Court all have very a differnt view's on this law.

While
you're correct, I don't think that was the point Ryzaki was trying to
make. He was claiming that because the supreme court treat them
differently means that they must be completely different.

Logically
that isn't any different to saying that because manslaughter and murder
are treated differently, murder doesn't involve killing as manslaughter
does. At the end of the day the basic crime is the same.

both Murder and Manslaughter involve killing someone.

if get in a fight with my wife and push her down the stairs that's manslaughter.
if i plan to kill my wife then stab her 2 week's later thats murder.
 
[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/policeman.png[/smilie] killing is bad Mmm-kay.

But it feels so right!

Modifié par Synnworld, 21 mars 2010 - 01:47 .

[Jenocide]

JaegerBane wrote...

Jenocide wrote...

if you make a profit its stealing. 

That's the issue. Since nothing was paid for, *any* money gained is profit.

There is a big difference between the two. You can legally share music in Canada (download only) if you do not make a profit form the act.

[Ryzaki]

Synnworld wrote...


The reason console outsells pc is because console is played more then pc; which is one reason it is easier to get away with adult content on a pc game then a console one. While Pc do have better graphics majority of the time, it is also one of the biggest problems that go against pc gaming. To keep those graphic s up to date, one has to constantly update their hard drive, while console gamers have the luxury of not being bothered with this problem. I had bought demigod at full price but was unable to play it for about 5-6 months until I had got my new labtop. My graphics card just could not handle the game, and currently I lag so hard on divinity 2 that it has simply become a waste of money. I can't argue with the dude not wanting to be a warrior as I find none mage characters in just about every none fighting game I play boring as hell to use, especially in a rpg.

PC gaming will never die:wizard::wizard:

 

True the graphic issues are annoying. And it is a lot more expensive to upgrade a PC then it is to buy a new console most of the time. And yeah the whole incompatiablity issues are really annoying as well. I bought one PC game. I don't think I'll ever buy another. Consoles are the way to go. Besides its easier to share console games among friends. None of that serial key nonsense. Just pop the disc in and you're free to go. Plus used games are made of win. 10 bucks off a brand new game? Yes please! Though I will buy a new game if I really think its good.

...does that mean used games, piracy and theft are all on the same level?  *shrugs* Oh well. At least used games are legal. As are video game rentals.

Also...lag...lag is suckage. That one PC game...I think I barely met minimial recs and god the lag was terrible. That pretty much cemented my love for console gaming. The day there are mods for consoles are the day I leave the PC behind and never look back.

...you wait! One of these days Console games will catch up and totally own PC gaming! *evil laughter*

And consoles are more widespread. Though I hope more adult content will find its way to console. I'm getting sick of the whole "only children play video games" sterotype.

the_one_54321 wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...
Piracy
- an excuse companies use to justify releasing piece of ****,
overpriced games. If all piracy stopped tomorrow, do you think companies
would drop their prices? Or improve quality? Wake up please.

They
might stop including software that hijacks our computers or forces us
to do things that we don't want to do, or are inconvenient. They also
might start producing as many games for the PC as they used to.

Way
to completely miss the point, genius. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie]

LOL.
[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie] They will
stop producing as many games for the PC. Console has proven itself to
be more convient and cheaper as well as more profitable. I'm surprised
it hasn't happened sooner.

Though I wonder...imagine if all the
big names went console exclusive. I could
already imagine the epic rage on video game forums everywhere. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 mars 2010 - 02:08 .

[the_one_54321]

wowpwnslol wrote...
Piracy - an excuse companies use to justify releasing piece of ****, overpriced games. If all piracy stopped tomorrow, do you think companies would drop their prices? Or improve quality? Wake up please.

They might stop including software that hijacks our computers or forces us to do things that we don't want to do, or are inconvenient. They also might start producing as many games for the PC as they used to.

Way to completely miss the point, genius.

[the_one_54321]

Ryzaki wrote...
Also...lag...lag is suckage

Oh, you're talking about Xbox Live! now, right? 

[Ryzaki]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Also...lag...lag is suckage

Oh, you're talking about Xbox Live! now, right? 

XD

Fine you got me there.

Frankly I hate Xbox Live. Bloody microsoft must be out of their minds if they think I'm playing for internet when neither Nintendo or Sony will make me pay for it? Hell Microsoft can GTFO with that Live fee. I hate that people pay it too because that just plants the idea in Microsoft's head that its okay.

Then they still have the nerve to place ads! Ads that can easily provide the cost for the servers!!!

Seriously screw microsoft. <_< Bloody money grubbing corporation. And yes I'm aware that's the purpose of a corporation. Doesn't mean I have to like it. SONY is moneygrubbing too but at least I don't have to pay to use my own internet.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 mars 2010 - 02:13 .

[Dam Wookie]

Wow it has been widely agreed upon that duplicating items is a grey area that does not fit into the classic view of stealing or into a view of sharing without loss. Apparently some haven't realised that yet.



If a person was going to buy the game and instead uses a copy then there is clear loss.

If a person was not going to buy the game and uses a copy then buys it because they like it there is clear gain.

If a person was going to buy the game and instead uses a copy and realises they have been mislead into believing a piece of rubbish was something they wanted. Removes the copy and does not buy the game. Then some unfairness has happened on both sides and the purchaser tried to protect themselves.

If a person was forced to buy the game as they want say a top rpg and there is no system in place they can trust to choose games and the drm was too strict. Then some perceived unfairness must have happened to the gaming industry and it is trying to protect itself.





In the music industry tape sharing was rife in the 80s. Allot of musicians wouldn't have had access to half their influences without sharing. They wouldn't exist in the form they do today.

The music industry is also now in a financial mess and partially blames mp3 sharing.

Online stores stopped selling drm music when fans shopped elsewhere. Something that is not possible with a game. If the music industry had the same level of control there would only be drm music.



The law is created to try to protect both the industry and the consumer. Both have conflicting interests. One wants you to buy products based on how well they can market it and get you to believe it is what you want. The other wants to buy products that they actually want with clarity.

The law has struggled in this area. There isn't millions of people in jail for using copies of material. There isn't millions of people openly sharing copies of material acting like doing so is risk free.



Despite research I have wasted what amounts to £1000's on pure toss over the years. Theoretically. In an area were material can be copied rather than outright stolen, trialling material certainly would have financial benefits for myself and idealistically money would also be directed towards the companies who in my opinion deserved it. I would be less cheated.



When I payed £35 for ultima ascension. A game that never worked. I was certainly cheated out of my money.

Those who paid £100 for life subscriptions to Hellgate London were robbed blind.

When in the UK I have to put up with localised pricing systems from money grabbing companies like EA when other countries get more for less I am being cheated.

[Synnworld]

Ryzaki wrote...

Synnworld wrote...


The reason console outsells pc is because console is played more then pc; which is one reason it is easier to get away with adult content on a pc game then a console one. While Pc do have better graphics majority of the time, it is also one of the biggest problems that go against pc gaming. To keep those graphic s up to date, one has to constantly update their hard drive, while console gamers have the luxury of not being bothered with this problem. I had bought demigod at full price but was unable to play it for about 5-6 months until I had got my new labtop. My graphics card just could not handle the game, and currently I lag so hard on divinity 2 that it has simply become a waste of money. I can't argue with the dude not wanting to be a warrior as I find none mage characters in just about every none fighting game I play boring as hell to use, especially in a rpg.

PC gaming will never die:wizard::wizard:

 

True the graphic issues are annoying. And it is a lot more expensive to upgrade a PC then it is to buy a new console most of the time. And yeah the whole incompatiablity issues are really annoying as well. I bought one PC game. I don't think I'll ever buy another. Consoles are the way to go. Besides its easier to share console games among friends. None of that serial key nonsense. Just pop the disc in and you're free to go. Plus used games are made of win. 10 bucks off a brand new game? Yes please! Though I will buy a new game if I really think its good.

...does that mean used games, piracy and theft are all on the same level?  *shrugs* Oh well. At least used games are legal. As are video game rentals.

Also...lag...lag is suckage. That one PC game...I think I barely met minimial recs and god the lag was terrible. That pretty much cemented my love for console gaming. The day there are mods for consoles are the day I leave the PC behind and never look back.

...you wait! One of these days Console games will catch up and totally own PC gaming! *evil laughter*

And consoles are more widespread. Though I hope more adult content will find its way to console. I'm getting sick of the whole "only children play video games" sterotype.

the_one_54321 wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...
Piracy
- an excuse companies use to justify releasing piece of ****,
overpriced games. If all piracy stopped tomorrow, do you think companies
would drop their prices? Or improve quality? Wake up please.

They
might stop including software that hijacks our computers or forces us
to do things that we don't want to do, or are inconvenient. They also
might start producing as many games for the PC as they used to.

Way
to completely miss the point, genius. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie]

LOL.
[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie] They will
stop producing as many games for the PC. Console has proven itself to
be more convient and cheaper as well as more profitable. I'm surprised
it hasn't happened sooner.

Though I wonder...imagine if all the
big names went console exclusive. I could
already imagine the epic rage on video game forums everywhere. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

@ bold
That is called hacking and that is illegal on console games so it won't happen.

@Italic
This will never happen sadly; majority of none gamers are simple minded.

@underline
Xbox live and playstation 3 live.

[the_one_54321]

Ryzaki wrote...
Seriously screw microsoft. <_< Bloody money grubbing corporation. And yes I'm aware that's the purpose of a corporation. Doesn't mean I have to like it. SONY isfmoneygrubbing too but at least I don't have to pay to use my own internet.

You know, the worst part is that they don't even provide servers. They use an xbox as the host. That's why the lag is always bad and the host always has an advantage. It's plain braindead to pay for Xbox Live!.

[Synnworld]

It is also stealing when you play or borrow your friends copy of the game >_>

[Ryzaki]

Synnworld wrote...

It is also stealing when you play or borrow your friends copy of the game >_>

Since when?  If that's the case used games would never be sold. And seeing as the selling, buying, rental and trading of video games is quite legal....

the_one_54321 wrote...

You
know, the worst part is that they don't even provide servers. They use
an xbox as the host. That's why the lag is always bad and the host
always has an advantage. It's plain braindead to pay for Xbox Live!.

...I really hate Microsoft. Worst part is that people
let them get away with doing it and then other corporations go: "OMG look how much money
they're making! Let's do it too!!!" and then
you end up paying for services that aren't even bloody worth it. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

Synnworld wrote...

@ bold
That is called hacking and
that is illegal on console games so it won't happen.

@Italic
This
will never happen sadly; majority of none gamers are simple minded.

@underline
Xbox
live and playstation 3 live.

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie]

Fine.
I don't care I still want mods on consoles.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 mars 2010 - 02:26 .

[Weiser_Cain]

I just check out youtube videos, chances are if it's crap you'll find out there.

[Synnworld]

Ryzaki wrote...

Synnworld wrote...

It is also stealing when you play or borrow your friends copy of the game >_>

Since when?  If that's the case used games would never be sold. And seeing as the selling, buying, rental and trading of video games is quite legal....

the_one_54321 wrote...

You
know, the worst part is that they don't even provide servers. They use
an xbox as the host. That's why the lag is always bad and the host
always has an advantage. It's plain braindead to pay for Xbox Live!.

...I really hate Microsoft. Worst part is that people
let them get away with doing it and then other corporations go: "OMG look how much money
they're making! Let's do it too!!!" and then
you end up paying for services that aren't even bloody worth it. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

Synnworld wrote...

@ bold
That is called hacking and
that is illegal on console games so it won't happen.

@Italic
This
will never happen sadly; majority of none gamers are simple minded.

@underline
Xbox
live and playstation 3 live.

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie]

Fine.
I don't care I still want mods on consoles.

@bold
As long as corperations are getting their cut.

Nope mods are pc users only, come to the pc side!

Weiser_Cain wrote...

I just check out youtube videos, chances are if it's crap you'll find out there.

they lied to me about Sacred 2!

Modifié par Synnworld, 21 mars 2010 - 02:34 .

[Ryzaki]

Synnworld wrote...

@bold
As long as corperations are getting their cut.

Nope mods are pc users only, come to the pc side!

EA nor BW makes a dime off a used video game sale other than the original purchase. You realize that if you have a used video game and sell it to your friend with no middle man that still counts as a used video game sale right? So if someone buys the original game sells it later, the person who they sold it too can then sell it ad naseum and all those people will have bought and paid for the game while not giving BW a penny extra than the original sold for.

So...no. Trading games is not illegal and never has been.

One can also give old games for free as gifts that also isn't illegal. I don't know where you're getting that from.
Once you buy the product its yours to do with as you wish as long as you own it (within the bounds of legal rights) you can give the game away for a fee or free but you can't duplicate it for any other purpose than for a back up. Otherwise you can chuck it out a window, its yours at that point.

Now...manipulating the data on the disc is a nother can of worms but the disc itself belongs to you.

Edit: Nothing wrong with editing quote pyramids people. :innocent:

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 mars 2010 - 02:42 .

[L33TDAWG]

Snugglepus wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

...Piracy is not stealing. Good grief.



Its copyright infringement. Still illegal but it is not the same thing as stealing.

No I don't condone piracy. (Frankly you are better off just waiting and reading other people (mostly on gaming sites) reviews of the game and drawing your own opinion. But its not stealing and never will be.

How can you believe website reviews after they rated Awakening higher than DA:O itself? Its not even worth DA:Os dipers...

DA:OA was good, but not worth 40 dollars. By the time I got vigilence and my chest piece made it was the end of the game... and it lasts a good 15 hours at most if you are keen with the first dragon age. Now... if they let you do what you could on mass effect 2 and possibly go back and play dragon age or awakening with your armor and same level it might have been better.

[Synnworld]

Ryzaki wrote...

Synnworld wrote...

@bold
As long as corperations are getting their cut.

Nope mods are pc users only, come to the pc side!

EA nor BW makes a dime off a used video game sale other than the original purchase. You realize that if you have a used video game and sell it to your friend with no middle man that still counts as a used video game sale right? So if someone buys the original game sells it later, the person who they sold it too can then sell it ad naseum and all those people will have bought and paid for the game while not giving BW a penny extra than the original sold for.

So...no. Trading games is not illegal and never has been.

One can also give old games for free as gifts that also isn't illegal. I don't know where you're getting that from.

You do realize I was joking right? If trading was illegal then I would have life without parole right now

[Challseus]

Snugglepus wrote...

How can you believe website reviews after they rated Awakening higher than DA:O itself? Its not even worth DA:Os dipers...

What are you on about? Awakenings metacritic score is 83. Origins's metacritic score is 91. Also, you only have yourself to blame here. It's 2010, not 1990. You don't just buy a game because of cool box art, or because of the developer. Do some damn research... I assume if you have the time to post on these forums about piracy, and most likely pirate games anyway, you have time to actually read previews/reviews.

Hell, by the mere fact that you're posting in this particular forum, you could have saved yourself from disappointment by just reading some of the very threads here!

But, go ahead and make yourself feel better about piracy. Whatever helps you sleep at night...

[Ryzaki]

Synnworld wrote...
You do realize I was joking right? If trading was illegal then I would have life without parole right now

Its hard to read jokes over the internet.

All of the games I'm currently playing is because of trading. DA, ME1, Heavy Rain...I haven't played ME2 yet because my roomie still isn't done with that one. *sighs* I wish she'd hurry the hell up. She keeps claiming she wants to play FF13.


Edit: That Let's Play is funny.
Also: I'm surprised DAA score is so high. Most people here make it sound like the worst, buggiest thing ever.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 mars 2010 - 02:47 .

[Synnworld]

Challseus wrote...

Snugglepus wrote...

How can you believe website reviews after they rated Awakening higher than DA:O itself? Its not even worth DA:Os dipers...

What are you on about? Awakenings metacritic score is 83. Origins's metacritic score is 91. Also, you only have yourself to blame here. It's 2010, not 1990. You don't just buy a game because of cool box art, or because of the developer. Do some damn research... I assume if you have the time to post on these forums about piracy, and most likely pirate games anyway, you have time to actually read previews/reviews.

Hell, by the mere fact that you're posting in this particular forum, you could have saved yourself from disappointment by just reading some of the very threads here!

But, go ahead and make yourself feel better about piracy. Whatever helps you sleep at night...

Dude grab a blunt and some purp then chill. It is just a, or better yet two different discussions going on here.

Ryzaki wrote...

Synnworld wrote...
You do realize I was joking right? If trading was illegal then I would have life without parole right now

Its hard to read jokes over the internet. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie]

All
of the games I'm currently playing is because of trading. DA, ME1,
Heavy Rain...I haven't played ME2 yet because my roomie still isn't
done with that one. *sighs* I wish she'd hurry the hell up. She keeps
claiming she wants to play FF13.


Edit: That Let's Play is funny.

DON'T MENTION FF13! I AM STILL PISSED THEY HAVEN'T CONVERTED ANY OTHER FF GAMES PAST 7-8 TO PC YET!

Modifié par Synnworld, 21 mars 2010 - 02:47 .

[MightySword]

[quote]Synnworld wrote...
[/quote]DON'T MENTION FF13! I AM STILL PISSED THEY HAVEN'T CONVERTED ANY OTHER FF GAMES PAST 7-8 TO PC YET!
[/quote]

You can play IX, X, X-2 and XII on the PC ...

[Synnworld]

[quote]MightySword wrote...

[quote]Synnworld wrote...
[/quote]DON'T MENTION FF13! I AM STILL PISSED THEY HAVEN'T CONVERTED ANY OTHER FF GAMES PAST 7-8 TO PC YET!
[/quote]

You can play IX, X, X-2 and XII on the PC ...

[/quote]Wait since when?  I still need to play XII.

[Challseus]

Synnworld wrote...

Challseus wrote...

Snugglepus wrote...

How can you believe website reviews after they rated Awakening higher than DA:O itself? Its not even worth DA:Os dipers...

What are you on about? Awakenings metacritic score is 83. Origins's metacritic score is 91. Also, you only have yourself to blame here. It's 2010, not 1990. You don't just buy a game because of cool box art, or because of the developer. Do some damn research... I assume if you have the time to post on these forums about piracy, and most likely pirate games anyway, you have time to actually read previews/reviews.

Hell, by the mere fact that you're posting in this particular forum, you could have saved yourself from disappointment by just reading some of the very threads here!

But, go ahead and make yourself feel better about piracy. Whatever helps you sleep at night...

Dude grab a blunt and some purp then chill. It is just a, or better yet two different discussions going on here.

Ummm.... Okay....?

*Shrugs*

[Ryzaki]

Synnworld wrote...
Wait since when?  I still need to play XII.

I'm guessing emulation.

Also: OP did you bother watching the link I gave you? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 mars 2010 - 03:01 .