293 réponses à ce sujet

[Synnworld]

The closet thing I seenn to ffxII being on pc is youtube.

[TJSolo]

Snugglepus wrote...

 These days, when there are no game demos, and you find out what you pay for only after you open a sealed box, piracy begins to look like the only way to determine if given product is worth its price, considering how game footage montage, developer interviews and bribed reviews are different from what you actually get. 
If everyone suddenly chooses philosophy of "If you like the game, buy it(After you played it)", will it motivate developers to be more interested in releasing best quality product possible to make their fans feel the need to pay for it as an honorable and well deserved act?
My answer is - most likely.

LOL goodluck with that rational.

My answer is - no chance.

[Bryy_Miller]

This thread is so out of wack.

[Feraele]

Snugglepus wrote...

You missed the point. As a real fan and honorable person you will always pay for the game if devs did their job, and didn't sell you unfinished piece of junk wrapped up in false advertising and untrue reviews.

THIS is YOUR subjective view...granted Awakening is not perfect, but I don't consider it junk.

I also don't use the "junk" excuse to steal from people either....its still an excuse, a way of justifying your actions.

There is no way, no justification for being a thief...at any time.

Here's a quote from me ..........

"If its good enough to steal..its good enough to pay for".  

[Cardantus]

Also - pirated game does not equal a lost sale. It's another lame myth video game companies made up. Most pirates would never have bought the game in the first place - so the actual effect of piracy as far as game sales go are minimal.

Perhaps you're right, but even if it was relevant, those who pirate are in no position to say whether they would have bought the game.  It's a lot easier to say "well I wouldn't have bought it anyway" when don't miss out on playing the game.  Somehow, I have a feeling that plenty of people who say they didn't like a game really would shell out the money for it if they couldn't play it otherwise.

I don't pirate games, I simply do my homework, don't purchase games I don't want, and let the developer know if there's a specific reason I didn't buy a product even though I might have wanted to.  I think Awakenings looks pretty rough around the edges and much to small for the amount of money they want for that.  I'm not going to pirate it, I've just given my feedback and will wait for the price to drop to $20 or so before I pick it up, since that's what I think it's actually worth.

Modifié par Cardantus, 21 mars 2010 - 03:12 .

[Ryzaki]

mrfoo1 wrote...

1. As long as the rights to a product are owned it is illegal to sell any product for personal gain or compensation outside of the rightsholders permission to do so. The reason as to why you can trade your game in at EB games etc is because they have authorization to make those transactions.

It's just that no corp. is going to go after little timmy shoehorn.

2. Old games can only be given as free gifts when the rights to the product are not held making the rights to the product public domain.

Its just if that Corporation did go after that tiny shoehorn the law would slam them back down so fast their head would spin. There is a restriction to how much you own something when you're selling it to someone else. There's a whole bunch of legal stuff that I can barely begin to understand but the simple fact is if you buy something you're entitled to do anything (except duplicate and sell said duplicates and if you sell the original you're supposed to destroy any and all copies you made). with the item. (Which is why modding your xbox only voids the warrenty and gets you booted off xbox live).

Consumers, despite how much corporations dislike it have rights too.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 mars 2010 - 03:19 .

[Cardantus]

mrfoo1 wrote...

1. As long as the rights to a product are owned it is illegal to sell any product for personal gain or compensation outside of the rightsholders permission to do so. The reason as to why you can trade your game in at EB games etc is because they have authorization to make those transactions.

It's just that no corp. is going to go after little timmy shoehorn.

2. Old games can only be given as free gifts when the rights to the product are not held making the rights to the product public domain.

Wrong, see http://en.wikipedia....t-sale_doctrine

I have the right to transfer ownership of any of my games and charge whatever I want for it as long as I don't make any additional copies...there's nothing illegal about used game sales (though game developers would certainly like you to believe otherwise).

[Feraele]

Ryzaki wrote...

outlaworacle wrote...

Well, you're kinda splitting hairs there, Ryzaki. You are enjoying full use of a product without the developer's seeing a cent. You're stealing from the company, they didn't make it so you could play it for free. They made it so you could buy it.

It's a slippery slope, logically. Technically the same could be leveled against loaning someone a game or buying a game used. But that's STILL not the same thought process as "i want to play this game but, y'know... **** paying for it." That is what makes it stealing.

Its STILL copyright infrigement. That's not fsplitting hairs that's the truth. Its like the difference between someone punching you in the face and stabbing you in the eye before robbing you blind. Both of those actions count as assault but one is arguably a lot worse than the other. Also: Theft removes the original. Piracy does not. They are not the same thing and its not splitting hairs to say so.

...you're not stealing from the company. *sighs* You're making a copy of their game and usually giving it away for free. There's a reason in many courts copyright infrigment and theft are not the same thing. You may think its theft but its not. Theft would be breaking into the BioWare headquaters and stealing one of their computers with all the game data on it, copyright infringment would be making a copy of said game data.

Do you not see the difference?

JaegerBane wrote...



I suppose if we adopt a
retard-level simplistic view of stealing then I guess the above diagram
makes sense.

But the simple fact is, piracy is the theft of
intellectual property. It's silly to try and rationalise as 'not
stealing' because IP still costs to either develop or acquire.

And
that is exactly why there's a whole nother term for it! Conviently
called: Copyright infringment! ../../../images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png

http://www.theregist...heft_and_other/

Yes its copyright infringement..Its still theft..you can still be prosecuted for it...if caught.  Actually you can be sued...

No matter what "pretty words" you attach to this..its still theft, bottom line.

It cannot be justified.

Alot of time and money,  has gone into developping this game and others like it.   If the Devs can't make back what they originally invested, because several someones are passing around pirated copies, then guess what....that company loses money...possibly even to the extreme of going out of business.   (I heard of one case like this recently..but not sure if it actually happened or not)

If you can't  afford it..well I guess don't buy it right?  Or wait til you can afford it.

I'm an artist I know what it feels like to have someone attempt to steal something that you put your heart and soul into.......

Don't be a pirate, don't be a THIEF.

[hexaligned]

1. As long as the rights to a product are owned it is illegal to sell any product for personal gain or compensation outside of the rightsholders permission to do so. The reason as to why you can trade your game in at EB games etc is because they have authorization to make those transactions.

It's just that no corp. is going to go after little timmy shoehorn.

2. Old games can only be given as free gifts when the rights to the product are not held making the rights to the product public domain.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried, at least as far as the US is concerned.
You can argue the morality if you like, but unlike laws, that is subjective.  Personally I think capatilism is an immoral instutuition to begin with, I have no problem with variations of it that are more empowering to the consumer, than to the corporations. 

[Ryzaki]

Feraele wrote...

Yes its copyright infringement..Its still theft..you can still be prosecuted for it...if caught.  Actually you can be sued...

No matter what "pretty words" you attach to this..its still theft, bottom line.

It cannot be justified.

Alot of time and money,  has gone into developping this game and others like it.   If the Devs can't make back what they originally invested, because several someones are passing around pirated copies, then guess what....that company loses money...possibly even to the extreme of going out of business.   (I heard of one case like this recently..but not sure if it actually happened or not)

If you can't  afford it..well I guess don't buy it right?  Or wait til you can afford it.

I'm an artist I know what it feels like to have someone attempt to steal something that you put your heart and soul into.......

Don't be a pirate, don't be a THIEF.

You're kind of late aren't you.

Also: I didn't pirate the game. No need. Not when you're across the hall from someone with the game and who is willing to lend it to you for free.

Game lending and used games are a beautiful thing.

Also: where on earth is this proof that piracy costs game developers so much profits? I mean I can understand them loosing some money (and making some from people who wouldn't buy if they didn't demo) but where are all these outrageous piracy rates causing game companies to shut down coming from?

Also: If piracy is such a problem why on earth don't they just move to the bloody console where the rates are much lower? Would that not make more sense than incorporating all this ridculous DRM? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 mars 2010 - 03:33 .

[Feraele]

Ryzaki wrote...

Feraele wrote...

Yes its copyright infringement..Its still theft..you can still be prosecuted for it...if caught.  Actually you can be sued...

No matter what "pretty words" you attach to this..its still theft, bottom line.

It cannot be justified.

Alot of time and money,  has gone into developping this game and others like it.   If the Devs can't make back what they originally invested, because several someones are passing around pirated copies, then guess what....that company loses money...possibly even to the extreme of going out of business.   (I heard of one case like this recently..but not sure if it actually happened or not)

If you can't  afford it..well I guess don't buy it right?  Or wait til you can afford it.

I'm an artist I know what it feels like to have someone attempt to steal something that you put your heart and soul into.......

Don't be a pirate, don't be a THIEF.

You're kind of late aren't you.

Also: I didn't pirate the game. No need. Not when you're across the hall from someone with the game and who is willing to lend it to you for free.

Better late than never.......

[Feraele]

Ryzaki wrote...

Feraele wrote...

Yes its copyright infringement..Its still theft..you can still be prosecuted for it...if caught.  Actually you can be sued...

No matter what "pretty words" you attach to this..its still theft, bottom line.

It cannot be justified.

Alot of time and money,  has gone into developping this game and others like it.   If the Devs can't make back what they originally invested, because several someones are passing around pirated copies, then guess what....that company loses money...possibly even to the extreme of going out of business.   (I heard of one case like this recently..but not sure if it actually happened or not)

If you can't  afford it..well I guess don't buy it right?  Or wait til you can afford it.

I'm an artist I know what it feels like to have someone attempt to steal something that you put your heart and soul into.......

Don't be a pirate, don't be a THIEF.

You're kind of late aren't you.

Also: I didn't pirate the game. No need. Not when you're across the hall from someone with the game and who is willing to lend it to you for free.

Game lending and used games are a beautiful thing.

Also: where on earth is this proof that piracy costs game developers so much profits?

Here's an example..20 people get the bright idea ..that its better to pirate than to pay.   They tell two friends, their friends tell two friends...and onwards.

Get the picture?   Those are lost sales. 

[Kerilus]

When the suggestion of piracy is posted in the forum of that game, you know the game is not that good...at least not good enough to inspire a basic level of repect.

[Ryzaki]

Feraele wrote...
Here's an example..20 people get the bright idea ..that its better to pirate than to pay.   They tell two friends, their friends tell two friends...and onwards.

Get the picture?   Those are lost sales. 

...and what proof do you have that those people would have bought the game in the first place? 

How do you not know that of those 20 people who never would have heard about the game that say 2 go out and buy it. Is that not know *gained* sales? That's the problem with blaming piracy. You don't have a valid number on how many people whould buy the game in the first place. Or who wouldn't have bought the game if not introduced through piracy. So this whole argument is based off assumptions.


Also: The OP is an idiot. They could have used youtube, or gaming sites or hell asked the people with the golden DA symbol here! It wouldn't have been overly difficult.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 mars 2010 - 03:37 .

[Feraele]

Kerilus wrote...

When the suggestion of piracy is posted in the forum of that game, you know the game is not that good...at least not good enough to inspire a basic level of repect.

Not necessarily...gamers of today..want everything to be free.   You see the question being asked all the time...is this game ftp?   Will this game have to have a monthly sub...or talk about piracy.

Most think that these games are developped out of thin air..that the Devs have deep pockets, and can support giving their game away for free to half a million people or so.

Its not true.     To these sorts I say..go back to playing the badly developped and poorly supported Korean games...that are "ftp".   

[gulegule]

mrfoo1 wrote...

1. As long as the rights to a product are owned it is illegal to sell any product for personal gain or compensation outside of the rightsholders permission to do so. The reason as to why you can trade your game in at EB games etc is because they have authorization to make those transactions.

It's just that no corp. is going to go after little timmy shoehorn.

2. Old games can only be given as free gifts when the rights to the product are not held making the rights to the product public domain.

I'm sorry, I usually have a strict no flames policy... but this is the dumbest thing anyone has ever typed on the internet.

It is never illegal to sell or give away something you've purchased.

Edit: Allow me to also throw in my "The OP is dumb, buy your videogames" statement here

Modifié par gulegule, 21 mars 2010 - 03:43 .

[Feraele]

Oh one more thing...to contradict the OP...there are game demos, go to Fileplanet, they have them all the time. They also have opportunities for getting in on betas of games...if you want "free".

[grieferbastard]

You know, I can read reviews and examples of movies but I have to pay to see them via renting, service subscription or otherwise to watch them - without stealing or pirating them. If I go out to eat and I order X, even if I don't like it, I have to pay for it. If I go to the store and buy a box of corn flakes and take them home to find out that you know, I'm just not in a corn flake mood I still have to pay for it. This isn't some magical, unreasonable idea. This is how adults behave in the real world. If you steal, pirate or otherwise attempt to cheat someone else out of the value of their work you can and should be prosecuted. You should also get called out for being the jackass that you are.

Trying to make excuses for stealing or screwing over someone elses attempts to get paid for the work they do because you're a selfish jackass really isn't going to get a lot of sympathy. I don't know anyone who pirates stuff, games or otherwise, for any reason. If I did I wouldn't keep them as a friend. I have standards that involve not keeping the company of dead-weight leeches on society. I deal with enough ignorant, selfish and self-absorbed people in a day without keeping their company on purpose.

I realize the above post sounds pretty harsh. Generally I'd say that I'm not trying to offend anyone. However if you're the sort of person who'd be offended for getting called out for stealing and otherwise screwing over other peoples hard work for no justification save that, well, you want stuff without having to pay for it.

Buy a used copy. Get a friend to give you theirs. Wait for the price to come down to where you feel it's worthwhile. There's a lot of options. Stealing or pirating are not ones that anyone who isn't a complete self-absorbed, selfish, ignorant special snowflake of a piece of **** would consider reasonable.

That's my warm fuzzy and feeling of love to share for today.

[Kerilus]

I don't doubt that they do pirate the game, or any games. The point being talking about pirating Bioware's game on Bioware's forum.

[Challseus]

grieferbastard wrote...

You know, I can read reviews and examples of movies but I have to pay to see them via renting, service subscription or otherwise to watch them - without stealing or pirating them. If I go out to eat and I order X, even if I don't like it, I have to pay for it. If I go to the store and buy a box of corn flakes and take them home to find out that you know, I'm just not in a corn flake mood I still have to pay for it. This isn't some magical, unreasonable idea. This is how adults behave in the real world. If you steal, pirate or otherwise attempt to cheat someone else out of the value of their work you can and should be prosecuted. You should also get called out for being the jackass that you are.

Trying to make excuses for stealing or screwing over someone elses attempts to get paid for the work they do because you're a selfish jackass really isn't going to get a lot of sympathy. I don't know anyone who pirates stuff, games or otherwise, for any reason. If I did I wouldn't keep them as a friend. I have standards that involve not keeping the company of dead-weight leeches on society. I deal with enough ignorant, selfish and self-absorbed people in a day without keeping their company on purpose.

I realize the above post sounds pretty harsh. Generally I'd say that I'm not trying to offend anyone. However if you're the sort of person who'd be offended for getting called out for stealing and otherwise screwing over other peoples hard work for no justification save that, well, you want stuff without having to pay for it.

Buy a used copy. Get a friend to give you theirs. Wait for the price to come down to where you feel it's worthwhile. There's a lot of options. Stealing or pirating are not ones that anyone who isn't a complete self-absorbed, selfish, ignorant special snowflake of a piece of **** would consider reasonable.

That's my warm fuzzy and feeling of love to share for today.

This.