293 réponses à ce sujet

[Cardantus]

mrfoo1 wrote...

If they are selling those products at profit then yes it is an illegal transaction and criminal. As is little timmy getting a copy of WoW from his mema. As I said. Most companies aren't going to go after the people who have spent the money on the product. So again I reiterate: most corps. aren't going to go after little timmy showhorn.

But using WoW is walking the fine line as the product you are purchasing isn't the same as DA:A/ME/Batman:AA. Nor is the use of set product.

Edit: For clearification I am not saying that you can not sell a product if it is unused/unopened etc. I should have clearified that, I was under the assertion that in reference it was to used products.

/facepalm

No, just...no.  I've already linked the relevant information in this thread once, but as long as you're not making additional copies of a game, you have every right to resell it for whatever price you like.  There's nothing remotely illegal about it.  Game developers want you to believe it is, but then again I'm sure there are plenty of book publishers that wish that used book sales were illegal too.

[YohkoOhno]

Personally, I agree with Harlan Ellison when it comes to piracy

[Ahisgewaya]

wowpwnslol wrote...

relhart wrote...


So if I walk into a grocery store...steal a bag of...cookies..and the owner catches me..I can just say I'm pirating and not stealing? Just walk out of the store and not get prosecuted? hehe

Righto.

Dumb analogy.

A better example would be: I walk into a grocery store and see a bag of cookies I like, but don't want to pay for them. I wave my magic wand and make a copy of the bag of cookies and walk out of the store.

I always get annoyed when people say piracy is stealing. It's not, it's copywrite infringement. Granted, that's still both wrong and illegal, but let's call things what they actually are.

That being said, you pirate games and then developers see no reason to make games anymore. It's that simple.

To use the cookie analogy, you wave your magic wand and make a copy of the cookies, you go home and then eat those cookies. Someone else goes into the store and does the same thing. Then another person does the same thing. Pretty soon, nobody's buying cookies anymore. The people who make cookies now have no money for their product. They can't feed their families. What do they do? They stop making cookies. This happens over and over again until there is no one on earth who makes cookies because people will just "magic wand" them. Word gets around that only a fool makes cookies.

Now there are no more cookies because no one's making them. Centuries pass and then finally someone tries making some cookies, but they're hard and stale because making cookies is now a lost art.

And we're back to the stone age.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 21 mars 2010 - 05:14 .

[DOUGEYEMASTER]

what makes me laugh is the principle of "ill download a pirate copy and then if its good ill buy it" i dont know one person who would actually go and buy it once they have aquired a working pirate copy!! i dont condone piracy wat so ever. if everyone downloaded there games all u would have left are games that have to be played online with a subscription charge for you to play them, would be the only way to guarantee a return, assumming developers bother to make new games for us all

[gulegule]

Jenocide wrote...
EA is allowed to sue people that break Copyright law. If Gamestop was burning games then selling the copy for profit then EA could Sue them for lots of money. What Gamestop dose it buy "Hard" copys of games and re-sell them profit its the same as a used car dealer.

Yes, what we're talking about here really has nothing to do with copyright.  It's right of first sale, which is similar to unconscionable contract law.

My point simply is that what gamestop does is exactly what a used car dealer does, and Toyata nor EA has the legal means to stop them.

[gulegule]

Cardantus wrote...

/facepalm

No, just...no.  I've already linked the relevant information in this thread once, but as long as you're not making additional copies of a game, you have every right to resell it for whatever price you like.  There's nothing remotely illegal about it.  Game developers want you to believe it is, but then again I'm sure there are plenty of book publishers that wish that used book sales were illegal too.

I'll double down on that /facepalm sir

But I know when someone just can't be convinced... best to leave them to their misconceptions.

Modifié par gulegule, 21 mars 2010 - 05:19 .

[Synnworld]

So it is agreed on than?

Piracy, while it is illegal, is not technically stealing.

PC, reigns above all consoles.

[JaegerBane]

Ahisgewaya wrote...
I always get annoyed when people say piracy is stealing. It's not, it's copywrite infringement. Granted, that's still both wrong and illegal, but let's call things what they actually are.

And I've never understood why people have convinced themselves that piracy actually only involves one crime. It involves copyright infringement, yes, but that only covers the part of reproducing intellectual property. The fact that you keep or sell something without paying any cash has nothing to do with copyright infringement by definition.

If I copy a game and keep it then bang, I've just acquired a game without paying for it. Copyright infringement occured by copying the game, true, but i'm not infringing a copyright by owning a copy of the game that I never paid for. At that stage it's no different to simply snatching a disk from the shop

[Synnworld]

JaegerBane wrote...

Ahisgewaya wrote...
I always get annoyed when people say piracy is stealing. It's not, it's copywrite infringement. Granted, that's still both wrong and illegal, but let's call things what they actually are.

And I've never understood why people have convinced themselves that piracy actually only involves one crime. It involves copyright infringement, yes, but that only covers the part of reproducing intellectual property. The fact that you keep or sell something without paying any cash has nothing to do with copyright infringement by definition.

If I copy a game and keep it then bang, I've just acquired a game without paying for it. Copyright infringement occured by copying the game, true, but i'm not infringing a copyright by owning a copy of the game that I never paid for. At that stage it's no different to simply snatching a disk from the shop

So I am stealing if i were to say....create a back on my external of all the games and all the programs on my labtop to my external hardrive? I know a lot of theives then.

[JaegerBane]

Synnworld wrote...
So I am stealing if i were to say....create a back on my external of all the games and all the programs on my labtop to my external hardrive? I know a lot of theives then.

No. It's not stealing. Not if you paid for them originally and keep them to yourself. Hell, you're not even breaking the EULA.

What's your point?

[Synnworld]

filaminstrel wrote...

Synnworld wrote...

So it is agreed on than?
Piracy, while it is illegal, is not technically stealing.

It's already been established before this thread began that piracy is illegal, so whether it's stealing or not is rather moot, and I really don't understand why this thread had to go on for 8 pages to argue about a moot point.

That's not to say that all crimes are equally bad, but, in the context of this thread, the fact that it's a crime at all is really all that matters. It's not a viable way to "save you from disappointment".

(and before anyone goes trying to compare pirates to Martin Luther King or Nelson Mandela or Gandhi... just, don't. For the love of God, just don't.)

No, enlighten me, how are these compared? What is pirating the new way to boycott or do asit in now a days?

JaegerBane wrote...

Synnworld wrote...
So I am
stealing if i were to say....create a back on my external of all the
games and all the programs on my labtop to my external hardrive? I know
a lot of theives then.

[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie]

No. It's not stealing. Not if you paid for them originally and keep them to yourself. Hell, you're not even breaking the EULA.

What's your point?

But am I not aquiring another copy of those games and programs without paying for them by doing thus methods?

Modifié par Synnworld, 21 mars 2010 - 06:31 .

[Ryzaki]

So wait I bought the latest LK CD and it broke in my CD Player (yes I'm clumsy) so downloading all the songs on the CD from a file sharing website and placing them on my ipod is somehow not piracy? Really?

Edit: Or hell another example: If someone lost one of their game discs and pirated the game disc data that they lost is that not piracy? Or if you broke the mass Effect disc trying to get it out of that blasted case and download another copy does that not count? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 mars 2010 - 06:35 .

[Synnworld]

Ryzaki wrote...

So wait I bought the latest LK CD and it broke in my CD Player (yes I'm clumsy) so downloading all the songs on the CD from a file sharing website and placing them on my ipod is somehow not piracy? Really?

Of course not!, you payed for the music already you silly person!
/sarcasm

[JaegerBane]

Synnworld wrote...

But am I not aquiring another copy of those games and programs without paying for them by doing thus methods?

No. That copy you've made is not being sold on and is expressly permitted by the EULA.

This is the core of all the confusion here. People seem to be confusing the concept of a game copy with the idea that it's a physical object. The disk and box (or space on HD) physically exists but what you're paying for is a right to use it, not a specific instance of zeros and ones. That right to use it covers making copies for personal use (it has to, as you physically can't play most PC games without copying data) but what it doesn't cover you for is selling on the right to use it while keeping your own license.

This is the whole point behind intellectual property. They aren't nice simplistic things like cookies or cars which have mass and can be passed from hand to hand.

[JaegerBane]

Ryzaki wrote...

So wait I bought the latest LK CD and it broke in my CD Player (yes I'm clumsy) so downloading all the songs on the CD from a file sharing website and placing them on my ipod is somehow not piracy? Really?

Edit: Or hell another example: If someone lost one of their game discs and pirated the game disc data that they lost is that not piracy? Or if you broke the mass Effect disc trying to get it out of that blasted case and download another copy does that not count? 

It depends on what you mean by 'does not count'. If you're asking if it's technically piracy, yeah. If you're asking if it's morally wrong, hardly.

[Ryzaki]

JaegerBane wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

So wait I bought the latest LK CD and it broke in my CD Player (yes I'm clumsy) so downloading all the songs on the CD from a file sharing website and placing them on my ipod is somehow not piracy? Really?

Edit: Or hell another example: If someone lost one of their game discs and pirated the game disc data that they lost is that not piracy? Or if you broke the mass Effect disc trying to get it out of that blasted case and download another copy does that not count? 

It depends on what you mean by 'does not count'. If you're asking if it's technically piracy, yeah. If you're asking if it's morally wrong, hardly.

Why not? I broke my CD disc. Too bad so sad. If I broke my vase I wouldn't have any right to go back to the store and take a brand new one without paying full price. They're both morally wrong and they're both illegal. You can't claim one isn't stealing and the other is.

If you drop a book in a puddle and the pages are ruined you're out of luck and need to buy a new copy of the book why would it be any different with video games adn the like? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 mars 2010 - 06:47 .

[rammsoldat]

Piracy.....has stopped me from making a few bad gaming purchases. It has also helped me make a few wise ones.



However i dont tend to pirate games much, it usually reqires a level of fiddling about i dislike and I also like to have a solid copy of a game so i can revisit it one day when i feel like it.



However i am getting more tempted to pirate games these days thanks to DRM programes. Im not one of these folks that scream about the invasion of privacy thats involved but i bought a legit copy of GTA 4 that i cant play due to securom disliking my external dvd drive. If i had pirated GTA 4 for my PC i wouldnt have had to deal with the drm.

[Abyss Vixen]

Yarrrrr, plunder his poop deck boys!... Sorry i only read the title dont care much for pirates.

Modifié par Abyss Vixen, 21 mars 2010 - 06:50 .

[JaegerBane]

Ryzaki wrote...
Why not? I broke my CD disc. Too bad so sad. If I broke my vase I wouldn't have any right to go back to the store and take a brand new one without paying full price. They're both morally wrong and they're both illegal. You can't claim one isn't stealing and the other is.

If you drop a book in a puddle and the pages are ruined you're out of luck and need to buy a new copy of the book why would it be any different with video games adn the like? 

Whether something is morally wrong is pretty much subjective. You've paid for a license to use the stuff and now you can't. Your license is still legit so ultimately, no-one is losing out.

Your analogies of books is flawed as the physical cost of duplicating the IP worth of a book is much higher than copying some digital data in the method described. If I dropped my laptop out of a plane I can't realistically expect the company to furnish me with replacement software media on the basis my license is still valid.

Your analogy about vases is completely irrelevant as it's not IP.

[Ryzaki]

JaegerBane wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Why not? I broke my CD disc. Too bad so sad. If I broke my vase I wouldn't have any right to go back to the store and take a brand new one without paying full price. They're both morally wrong and they're both illegal. You can't claim one isn't stealing and the other is.

If you drop a book in a puddle and the pages are ruined you're out of luck and need to buy a new copy of the book why would it be any different with video games adn the like? 

Whether something is morally wrong is pretty much subjective. You've paid for a license to use the stuff and now you can't. Your license is still legit so ultimately, no-one is losing out.

Your analogies of books is flawed as the physical cost of duplicating the IP worth of a book is much higher than copying some digital data in the method described. If I dropped my laptop out of a plane I can't realistically expect the company to furnish me with replacement software media on the basis my license is still valid.

Your analogy about vases is completely irrelevant as it's not IP.

So take an book that you drop in the puddle but now say do you have the right to illegally download the ebook version? According to you that's morally fine? 

Of course not because its physical media. But what about the programs you had on your laptop? Are you somehow morally right if you pirate all the music files, programs and games you had on your PC if you didn't back it up on an external HDD?

If your computer crashes and you lost the vista install disc is it morally right for you to download an exact copy of the vista version you had off a file sharing site? Really?  That's not stealing?

That's very cherry pickish. Its all wrong and it all counts as stealing. Only difference is that you bought the items to begin with and then stole a copy when yours was destroyed.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 21 mars 2010 - 06:57 .

[sumdood]

Piracy isn't stealing. Piracy doesn't even really cause the owner of the copyrights to lose money. The fact is, if pirates couldn't download the game they still wouldn't buy it.

[sumdood]

Ryzaki wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Why not? I broke my CD disc. Too bad so sad. If I broke my vase I wouldn't have any right to go back to the store and take a brand new one without paying full price. They're both morally wrong and they're both illegal. You can't claim one isn't stealing and the other is.

If you drop a book in a puddle and the pages are ruined you're out of luck and need to buy a new copy of the book why would it be any different with video games adn the like? 

Whether something is morally wrong is pretty much subjective. You've paid for a license to use the stuff and now you can't. Your license is still legit so ultimately, no-one is losing out.

Your analogies of books is flawed as the physical cost of duplicating the IP worth of a book is much higher than copying some digital data in the method described. If I dropped my laptop out of a plane I can't realistically expect the company to furnish me with replacement software media on the basis my license is still valid.

Your analogy about vases is completely irrelevant as it's not IP.

So take an book that you drop in the puddle but now say do you have the right to illegally download the ebook version? According to you that's morally fine? 

Of course not because its physical media. But what about the programs you had on your laptop? Are you somehow morally right if you pirate all the music files, programs and games you had on your PC if you didn't back it up on an external HDD?

If your computer crashes and you lost the vista install disc is it morally right for you to download an exact copy of the vista version you had off a file sharing site? Really?  That's not stealing?

That's very cherry pickish. Its all wrong and it all counts as stealing. Only difference is that you bought the items to begin with and then stole a copy when yours was destroyed.

Legally, when you purchase a peice of software you are actually purchasing a license to use the software and you don't own the digital data itself.  Therefore, yes, you could legally download all of your previously purchased software off of a file sharing service legally since you still own the license to use it.

[Ryzaki]

sumdood wrote...

Legally, when you purchase a peice of software you are actually purchasing a license to use the software and you don't own the digital data itself.  Therefore, yes, you could legally download all of your previously purchased software off of a file sharing service legally since you still own the license to use it.

Really? Well...at least now I can safely redownload Jade Empire and KOTOR.

...stupid fragile, easily lost and scratched game discs.


So what good is getting up in arms about file sharing then?  If on some level it will always be legal?