210 réponses à ce sujet

[BubbleDncr]

I'm, at this point, kind of convinced that the sequel will continue with the same Warden.Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the epilogues from Awakening seem to say that the Warden just disappears after awhile, unless you've romanced Morrigan it says you go to Orlais to look for her? That's just what I've heard. So, if the next game takes place with the Warden in Orlais, it doesn't really matter what a lot of the decisions you made in Ferelden were - won't matter who the king of Orzammar is, or what happened to the mages or the Dalish. I mean, how much of the current going-ons in Orlais effect Fereldon? Not very much.

Even if your character is king or queen, there's perfectly legit reasons for them to travel to Orlais (diplomacy anyone?), and if The Calling novel proves anything, its that the writers believe even the King can go on suicidal quests just cos he feels like it.

The biggest issue is having characters like Al, Lel, and Zev coming back, since some people killed Alistair, or Lel and Zev could have left partway through the game. So, from a game design standpoint, that's a lot of dialog to write that some players will never see. But considering the only companions you're required to take with you in DA:O are Alistair and Morrigan, there was still that risk there, too. Not to mention that if you don't get your approval up high enough, or take certain characters certain places, you won't even see a lot of dialog for party members you do have. And the fact that the designers are trying, in Awakening, to streamline their dialog system, only supports idea for me, that Alistair, Lelianna, Zev, and Morrigan could all come back.



Personally, my character was romancing Alistair, and had either 100 approval or pretty close with the other 3, friendship wise, so she'd be glad to have them all be back, and then just the rest of your party members be brand new or maybe from Awakenings.

[Leifa]

BubbleDncr wrote...

I'm, at this point, kind of convinced that the sequel will continue with the same Warden.Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the epilogues from Awakening seem to say that the Warden just disappears after awhile, unless you've romanced Morrigan it says you go to Orlais to look for her? That's just what I've heard. So, if the next game takes place with the Warden in Orlais, it doesn't really matter what a lot of the decisions you made in Ferelden were - won't matter who the king of Orzammar is, or what happened to the mages or the Dalish. I mean, how much of the current going-ons in Orlais effect Fereldon? Not very much.
Even if your character is king or queen, there's perfectly legit reasons for them to travel to Orlais (diplomacy anyone?), and if The Calling novel proves anything, its that the writers believe even the King can go on suicidal quests just cos he feels like it.
The biggest issue is having characters like Al, Lel, and Zev coming back, since some people killed Alistair, or Lel and Zev could have left partway through the game. So, from a game design standpoint, that's a lot of dialog to write that some players will never see. But considering the only companions you're required to take with you in DA:O are Alistair and Morrigan, there was still that risk there, too. Not to mention that if you don't get your approval up high enough, or take certain characters certain places, you won't even see a lot of dialog for party members you do have. And the fact that the designers are trying, in Awakening, to streamline their dialog system, only supports idea for me, that Alistair, Lelianna, Zev, and Morrigan could all come back.

Personally, my character was romancing Alistair, and had either 100 approval or pretty close with the other 3, friendship wise, so she'd be glad to have them all be back, and then just the rest of your party members be brand new or maybe from Awakenings.

Yep, I agree. You bring up great points.

And if Alistair died from the Archdemon - or at your hand -, well just use another character for the sequel.

Honestly, I am pretty sure that most female characters who had a romance with Alistair lost him in the fight against the Archdemon the first time around, and we all ended up (either making new characters or reloading saved games) and accepting the deal in the end. 

And anyways, if BioWare announces that Alistair, Morrigan, Lelianna and Zevran will be in the sequel, just watch everyone who doesn't have a fitting game start a new one... Or 2.
Plus, it's not like that would be so terrible, now that there is a "no raw fade" mod out, hehe Oops, did I just say that aloud...?
 

[MaxQuartiroli]

BubbleDncr wrote...

I'm, at this point, kind of convinced that the sequel will continue with the same Warden.Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the epilogues from Awakening seem to say that the Warden just disappears after awhile, unless you've romanced Morrigan it says you go to Orlais to look for her? That's just what I've heard. So, if the next game takes place with the Warden in Orlais, it doesn't really matter what a lot of the decisions you made in Ferelden were - won't matter who the king of Orzammar is, or what happened to the mages or the Dalish. I mean, how much of the current going-ons in Orlais effect Fereldon? Not very much.

My ending was a little "stronger"

It said "The Dark Spawn would not be anymore a problem for many years therefore the commander knew it was finally the moment to turn over a new leaf. She disappeared and no one saw her again.. They said she joined again the red-haired Bard Leliana to continue their adventures togheter"

My thought now is.. If we have no more Darkspawn and if Darkspawn won't be anymore a problem we don't need a Grey Warden, yet. 

[BubbleDncr]

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

I'm, at this point, kind of convinced that the sequel will continue with the same Warden.Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the epilogues from Awakening seem to say that the Warden just disappears after awhile, unless you've romanced Morrigan it says you go to Orlais to look for her? That's just what I've heard. So, if the next game takes place with the Warden in Orlais, it doesn't really matter what a lot of the decisions you made in Ferelden were - won't matter who the king of Orzammar is, or what happened to the mages or the Dalish. I mean, how much of the current going-ons in Orlais effect Fereldon? Not very much.

My ending was a little "stronger"

It said "The Dark Spawn would not be anymore a problem for many years therefore the commander knew it was finally the moment to turn over a new leaf. She disappeared and no one saw her again.. They said she joined again the red-haired Bard Leliana to continue their adventures togheter"

My thought now is.. If we have no more Darkspawn and if Darkspawn won't be anymore a problem we don't need a Grey Warden, yet. 

That's what I got, but I disappeared with Alistair. I kind of think it's silly to think another blight's gonna happen anytime this century, so the sequel will just be those adventures that either solo grey warden had or grey warden+their love had. I feel like that last line is hinting that there's more to come for the warden, with or without the darkspawn.

[Cancermeat]

Can we all agree in: "Lets just hope its not an mmo"

[Behindyounow]

BubbleDncr wrote...


That's what I got, but I disappeared with Alistair. I kind of think it's silly to think another blight's gonna happen anytime this century, so the sequel will just be those adventures that either solo grey warden had or grey warden+their love had. I feel like that last line is hinting that there's more to come for the warden, with or without the darkspawn.

Thats the thing though. Grey wardens only focus on the darkspawn.

[MaxQuartiroli]

Everyone should consider another thing....

A sequel is not an expansion. As a stand-alone game he must have 2 great duties:

1) To be good - if not more - at least as good as the first game
2) To not penalize all players who want to play it without having played the first game

Therefore, forgot they can do a thing like "new origins for new characters + import old characters" This thing under a technical/financial point of view just cannot be proposed

So the available scenarios if they are planning to continue the adventure with the first character would be just:

- Import the old characters and for newbies playing with a presettled character

What would happen with this thing

1) You have no more origins which was one of the best innovation of DA:O
2) You have a limited history because if you want to give a little continuity you have to force the story into some specific way and you lose all freedom you had with DA:O
3) You penalize newbies with a character with small background

Summarizing.. a game which is worse than DA:O

Second option

- Force a canon ending (or a canon begin if you prefer) and therefore you can create more variables and freedom in the story

What would happen with this thing:

1) You still have no Origins
2) You screw nearly all of the players if you force them to forget all the decisions they took in first chapter

Summarizing: A game which is worse than DA:O

Here are the reason why in my opinion we have to hope for a new story with no direct continuation from the first game

Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 22 mars 2010 - 06:22 .

[Bratt1204]

Leifa wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

I'm, at this point, kind of convinced that the sequel will continue with the same Warden.Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the epilogues from Awakening seem to say that the Warden just disappears after awhile, unless you've romanced Morrigan it says you go to Orlais to look for her? That's just what I've heard. So, if the next game takes place with the Warden in Orlais, it doesn't really matter what a lot of the decisions you made in Ferelden were - won't matter who the king of Orzammar is, or what happened to the mages or the Dalish. I mean, how much of the current going-ons in Orlais effect Fereldon? Not very much.
Even if your character is king or queen, there's perfectly legit reasons for them to travel to Orlais (diplomacy anyone?), and if The Calling novel proves anything, its that the writers believe even the King can go on suicidal quests just cos he feels like it.
The biggest issue is having characters like Al, Lel, and Zev coming back, since some people killed Alistair, or Lel and Zev could have left partway through the game. So, from a game design standpoint, that's a lot of dialog to write that some players will never see. But considering the only companions you're required to take with you in DA:O are Alistair and Morrigan, there was still that risk there, too. Not to mention that if you don't get your approval up high enough, or take certain characters certain places, you won't even see a lot of dialog for party members you do have. And the fact that the designers are trying, in Awakening, to streamline their dialog system, only supports idea for me, that Alistair, Lelianna, Zev, and Morrigan could all come back.

Personally, my character was romancing Alistair, and had either 100 approval or pretty close with the other 3, friendship wise, so she'd be glad to have them all be back, and then just the rest of your party members be brand new or maybe from Awakenings.

Yep, I agree. You bring up great points.

And if Alistair died from the Archdemon - or at your hand -, well just use another character for the sequel.

Honestly, I am pretty sure that most female characters who had a romance with Alistair lost him in the fight against the Archdemon the first time around, and we all ended up (either making new characters or reloading saved games) and accepting the deal in the end. 

And anyways, if BioWare announces that Alistair, Morrigan, Lelianna and Zevran will be in the sequel, just watch everyone who doesn't have a fitting game start a new one... Or 2.
Plus, it's not like that would be so terrible, now that there is a "no raw fade" mod out, hehe Oops, did I just say that aloud...?
 

You are right about that.

[Desyndra]

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

- Force a canon ending (or a canon begin if you prefer) and therefore you can create more variables and freedom in the story

What would happen with this thing:

1) You still have no Origins

Sorry, but I don't see any relationship between a forced canon ending and the presence or lack of Origins.

You can force a canon ending to introduce a plot in the sequel and establish continuity between the past (DA:O) and present (DA2), then you can use the Origin stories to have a new hero who then builds a different team to deal with the situtation.

Modifié par Desyndra, 22 mars 2010 - 06:47 .

[MaxQuartiroli]

Desyndra wrote...

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

- Force a canon ending (or a canon begin if you prefer) and therefore you can create more variables and freedom in the story

What would happen with this thing:

1) You still have no Origins

Sorry, but I don't see any relationship between a forced canon ending and the presence or lack of Origins.

You can force a canon ending to introduce a plot in the sequel and establish continuity between the past (DA:O) and present (DA2), then you can use the Origin stories to have a new hero who then builds a different team to deal with the situtation.

You misunderstood me... I was always talking about to continue the adventure with your old character.
If they let us import the old character we'll never have an origin, canon or not canon
I was just saying that if they force a canon they should at least have more freedom in choices for history of the second game but it would be however a ****

[Bratt1204]

DrunkDeadman wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

I didn't find the storyline in Origins that Epic. 0_o You JUST managed to make some friends and possibly a lover, and killed one big baddy in a fairly run-of-the-mill main quest.

The thing I found epic about the story was the characters, and damn it, I want more of them! They were well written and nuanced enough to make my want to have many PCs I play through to the end to explore the possibilities and all facets of the character interactions fully. Even so, there is much that is only eluded to by your companions, there are depths of their personalities and past yet to be explored. Most of them grow by the end of the game in some way if you get to know them, but it only just begins, and then it is over when you slay the Arch Demon. This leaves me dying for a follow up or expansions where we get more story arcs with these characters, and get to see how our decisions from Origins are effecting the land. This, to me, would be epic. Not starting over with a new blight and a new character.

Yes, picking up where our decisions left the world off would require a lot of work to weave it into a coherent story, but it's not undoable. Some of the details can be glossed over with plot devices to narrow down the variables.

I would love to be able to see our characters out to the end... I want to see their relationships continue to grow and be challenged. I want to continue to shape Fereldan, and possibly influence other lands as well. And after several more epic battles, politicking, and dramas, I'd like to see my Warden's end. THAT, would be epic.

As for what use Grey Wardens would be in future storylines that don't involve darkspawn... Grey Wardens are a powerful international institution of heroic warriors.  Why WOULDN'T a GW get involved in warfare or politics?  You already had the chance to put a GW on the throne or in Tyrndom in Origins.  You also had the chance to ask boons for various groups, like Dalish and Alienage elves.  It's pretty obvious being an incredibly powerful warrior of an elite group that work to some extent both within AND without the laws of any given land is a perfect position to be in for setting up epic storylines.

Vicious wrote...

Cancermeat wrote...

Everybody
thinks BG2 was Bioware's crown jewel, and that game ignored a lot of
player decesions from 1 ( i know im not the first person to that is,
haha)

Bioware's fanbase is incredibly spoiled IMO. I mean
really they popularized the whole
'YOUR CHOICES CARRY OVER FROM GAME TO GAME" bit, and now EVERYONE wants
it for ALL their games. It's a f--ing joke.

That said, I hope
they let the Warden go. I want to see all the spoiled fans cry on the
forums about how they'll never see Alistair/Leliana again. I left out
Zevran cuz he's actually awesome.

I don't think it's about being 'spoiled'.  It's an aspect of gameplay that is very new and exciting.  The point of an RPG is to Role Play in a game, right?  Why should it have to end after only ONE storyline, on some generic sounding slide where you sit on a throne or ride off into the sunset with somebody?  To me that screems 'missed opportunity'.  I'd only JUST established my hero... learned who they are, who their friends are... and so much is left feeling unfinished by the end of Origins.  It leaves me wanting to know 'what happens next?'  How is that 'being spoiled'?

This, over 9000.

I especially got into my character's mind when Morrigan proposed the ritual. I was sitting there thinking what would my HN do? What the hell would she do in a situation like that? Sacrifice would work. Her family lies dead, she got nothing left in this world. And then Morrigan pressess the button. Leliana. If my PC would die, what would become of her? (Unhardened) Leliana is even worse than Alistair, if left on her own. Surely there are more Marjolaines out there just waiting to manipulate her. No, my PC can't have that.
So not being able to leave her love, I had my PC march into Alistair's room and practically force him to do the ritual (as much as my PC hated the idea).

That made me really think, "What would my Cousland do for love? How far would she go?". Alas, I never got an opportunity to encounter a similar choice. Not even in Awakening. That's why I would LOVE to be able to continue as my Warden. Imagine you get a choice, save the town or save your LI, or something of that sort. I really want to have a lot more of these "selfish" choices in the future since they can be really hard to choose. And I like that.

Plus, my PC's story doesn't feel finished. Far from it in fact.

Agreed.

[Ranger Discord]

I personally would prefer to continue as my Grey Warden(s). Mostly because I don't feel their stories are quite finished yet. Its quite possible that could be fleshed out in future dlc, and if it is then fine. But, I still think there is some potential for conflicts that can occur with the origins characters in the future. Ferelden itself is pretty looked down upon by the other nations so regardless of whether you are a hero there or not might give you a different sort of reaction from people in other nations. Good or bad, which I think is one of the interesting aspects of the game that who you are dictates how people react to you. It would be interesting for me at least to see what someone from Orlais or Antiva thinks of a hero from Ferelden that smells like wet dog. There is also the fact that I am plain suspicious about the other wardens at Wiesshaupt (Riordan said they are strange people, they send someone to observe me in Awakenings, etc.) and I'm not sure I buy that they would just willingly accept that the only two wardens in Ferelden managed to survive killing an archdemon and don't know why (points at Riordan's corpse "he did it >_>"). But those are just some of the choices I made.



Of course, it would just be silly to not be able to make a new character for a sequel. So, I don't think anyone needs to worry about whether that would be possible or not. I think the real worry is for people that feel a sense of incompleteness with their origins character story and/or are attached to what they built up. Which is also a question of what exactly would carry over into a sequel, because as many of us saw with Awakenings, there wasn't much carried over.



I do see where a lot of you are coming from though with wanting to start over (especially the US ending people). But for me, my character(s) still wants to adventure and aren't ready to just fizzle out by disappearing.

[BubbleDncr]

Behindyounow wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...


That's what I got, but I disappeared with Alistair. I kind of think it's silly to think another blight's gonna happen anytime this century, so the sequel will just be those adventures that either solo grey warden had or grey warden+their love had. I feel like that last line is hinting that there's more to come for the warden, with or without the darkspawn.

Thats the thing though. Grey wardens only focus on the darkspawn.

I dunno. The Awakenings epilogue clearly said that my character eventually stepped down as Grey Warden Commander cos the darkspawn were no longer a threat. And half of my Grey Warden recruits ended up leaving the Wardens eventually, as well.

But hey, maybe Orlais's having a ton of problems with darkspawn, and that's why we go there. Or Antiva. Or wherever. It just seems unlikely that Ferelden would have another major darkspawn problem.

[Champion1]

As long as the choices you made in DAO and the expansions to it carry over into DA2, I really don't care about starting a new character. I just don't want to be chatting with a dwarf and hear how great King Bhelen is when I chopped his head off in DAO, or how it's a shame Amaranthine was destroyed since I saved it.



You might say that these things won't matter, and sure, they might not, but I don't really want to be barred into playing as Morrigan's child, since what I love about BioWare is how choices matter over a good long time, and Morrigan having a child isn't an automatic thing you have no control over. It just seems like dismissing the first game and xpacs like that would really take away from the value of the story.

[Cancermeat]

Bratt1204 wrote...

DrunkDeadman wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

I didn't find the storyline in Origins that Epic. 0_o You JUST managed to make some friends and possibly a lover, and killed one big baddy in a fairly run-of-the-mill main quest.

The thing I found epic about the story was the characters, and damn it, I want more of them! They were well written and nuanced enough to make my want to have many PCs I play through to the end to explore the possibilities and all facets of the character interactions fully. Even so, there is much that is only eluded to by your companions, there are depths of their personalities and past yet to be explored. Most of them grow by the end of the game in some way if you get to know them, but it only just begins, and then it is over when you slay the Arch Demon. This leaves me dying for a follow up or expansions where we get more story arcs with these characters, and get to see how our decisions from Origins are effecting the land. This, to me, would be epic. Not starting over with a new blight and a new character.

Yes, picking up where our decisions left the world off would require a lot of work to weave it into a coherent story, but it's not undoable. Some of the details can be glossed over with plot devices to narrow down the variables.

I would love to be able to see our characters out to the end... I want to see their relationships continue to grow and be challenged. I want to continue to shape Fereldan, and possibly influence other lands as well. And after several more epic battles, politicking, and dramas, I'd like to see my Warden's end. THAT, would be epic.

As for what use Grey Wardens would be in future storylines that don't involve darkspawn... Grey Wardens are a powerful international institution of heroic warriors.  Why WOULDN'T a GW get involved in warfare or politics?  You already had the chance to put a GW on the throne or in Tyrndom in Origins.  You also had the chance to ask boons for various groups, like Dalish and Alienage elves.  It's pretty obvious being an incredibly powerful warrior of an elite group that work to some extent both within AND without the laws of any given land is a perfect position to be in for setting up epic storylines.

Vicious wrote...

Cancermeat wrote...

Everybody
thinks BG2 was Bioware's crown jewel, and that game ignored a lot of
player decesions from 1 ( i know im not the first person to that is,
haha)

Bioware's fanbase is incredibly spoiled IMO. I mean
really they popularized the whole
'YOUR CHOICES CARRY OVER FROM GAME TO GAME" bit, and now EVERYONE wants
it for ALL their games. It's a f--ing joke.

That said, I hope
they let the Warden go. I want to see all the spoiled fans cry on the
forums about how they'll never see Alistair/Leliana again. I left out
Zevran cuz he's actually awesome.

I don't think it's about being 'spoiled'.  It's an aspect of gameplay that is very new and exciting.  The point of an RPG is to Role Play in a game, right?  Why should it have to end after only ONE storyline, on some generic sounding slide where you sit on a throne or ride off into the sunset with somebody?  To me that screems 'missed opportunity'.  I'd only JUST established my hero... learned who they are, who their friends are... and so much is left feeling unfinished by the end of Origins.  It leaves me wanting to know 'what happens next?'  How is that 'being spoiled'?

This, over 9000.

I especially got into my character's mind when Morrigan proposed the ritual. I was sitting there thinking what would my HN do? What the hell would she do in a situation like that? Sacrifice would work. Her family lies dead, she got nothing left in this world. And then Morrigan pressess the button. Leliana. If my PC would die, what would become of her? (Unhardened) Leliana is even worse than Alistair, if left on her own. Surely there are more Marjolaines out there just waiting to manipulate her. No, my PC can't have that.
So not being able to leave her love, I had my PC march into Alistair's room and practically force him to do the ritual (as much as my PC hated the idea).

That made me really think, "What would my Cousland do for love? How far would she go?". Alas, I never got an opportunity to encounter a similar choice. Not even in Awakening. That's why I would LOVE to be able to continue as my Warden. Imagine you get a choice, save the town or save your LI, or something of that sort. I really want to have a lot more of these "selfish" choices in the future since they can be really hard to choose. And I like that.

Plus, my PC's story doesn't feel finished. Far from it in fact.

Agreed.

Good round up

[alickar]

SDNcN wrote...


So since I keep seeing posts about how people want to continue into DA: 2 with their current character I figure there should be thread about why not.

So here is why we shouldn’t!
(There are spoilers for DA:O and Awakening)

Dragon Age: Origins was an epic journey, not the start of one.

The two Bioware games in which the main character was continued into the sequel, Baldur’s Gate and Mass Effect, were clearly set up so the main character would carry over smoothly into the second. Baldur’s Gate made the character a Baalspawn and structured the story entirely around it. Mass Effect made it repeatedly clear that Sheppard is the one of the only people who full understands that Reapers are coming and talented enough to actually stop them.

Dragon Age: Origins however lacks any ongoing personal issues that would be enough to support another game – Morrigan’s child doesn’t count (see below) – and it doesn’t set up some looming disaster that only the Grey Warden can avert. At the end of Origins the PC gathered up allies from across the country and became the only one in history to end the Blight before it destroyed a number of nations. That is epic. There was the problem of the Darkspawn remaining above surface post Origins, but that was taken care of in Awakening. What exactly is left for the PC to accomplish that really can’t be accomplished by anyone else?

More Morrigan!

Morrigan ending up with a child, god or not, is only one of a number of possible outcomes.  Unless the people who want this to be the focus of a sequel also want it forced on as a cannon ending, this event making up an entire sequel seems ridiculous.  The plotline being continued as a DLC or subplot of an Expansion for Origins would be a better way to give players a sense of resolution without disappointing everyone who didn’t follow that plotline.

But then again Morrigan made it pretty clear throughout Origins that the PC would regret forming a relationship
with her in the end. If that PC never finds her, then well, she warned them beforehand. Not all stories need to have a happy ending.

But I am so attached to my character and their companions!

And so people want more time adventuring with them? This is understandable, but more for sake of more is
hardly a compelling reason to continue to use them. Posts asking for adventures in Orlais with Leliana or in Antiva with Zevran tend to focus on how utterly amazing it would be to see another area of Thedas with their favorite companion, but gloss over why exactly it is absolutely important for the PC and their companions to be there.

Thedas

The PC from DA: O traveling to another country removes one of the better features of DA: O, the actual origin
stories. The Origin stories in DA: O allowed the player to experience firsthand what it is like to be an oppressed elf in the Alienage or brutality of Dwarven politics, but they also gave the player a connection to areas or people they
would meet later in the game. Without this feature the main character essentially becomes a wandering hero (ine) and removes a lot of emotion for the sake of continuation.

Let’s say in DA: 2 is set in another country like Orlais, which is suffering from a serious threat that could possibly
bring ruin to their nation. Why exactly would the DA: O PC care enough to get involved?

 If the answer is that Leliana is from Orlais and you can adventure there with her again, then at that point you are relying on another character’s motivation instead of your own. If that is the case then your character isn’t even needed for the story and just a side-kick for Leliana. (Wait this might be a good idea. Leliana could get her own game.)

 A new protagonist with ties to that region through their Origin story would have stronger reasons to get involved than would a wanderer type hero and strengthen the story as a whole. Imagine if DA: O removed origins all together and instead you simply played as a Grey Warden from Orlais. That is essentially what would happen to DA: 2 if we carried over our character.

Just look at Awakening and the number of people who are upset that there isn't enough connections to Origins. Imagine the disconnect of playing your character in another country.


Ferelden

If a sequel is set in Ferelden it would be much easier to carry over the protagonist from DA: O into it. At the
end of DA: O the player, regardless of how they acted, would have a lot of connections people and places in the country. Also there is more potential for smaller decisions to carry over through import. Only real problem I see is
having another major event happen there within the Warden’s shortened lifetime that doesn’t feel like it is just an after adventure of the Warden. Those can fit into DLC and smaller expansions.

Before someone says Qunari invasion, Sten never said when it would happen and his people are further north
fighting Tevinter. The Qunari intend to convert everyone to the Qun, his statements could just acknowledge the fact that one day the Qunari will attack Ferelden because of it.

The Warden’s power is over 9,000!

At the end of Awakening or even Origins, the Warden is a beast. Even with the improved AI using more spells and
skills in Awakening, it wasn’t enough to keep up with the Warden even on higher difficulty levels. Unless players are willing to rollback their characters to a lower level with lower level gear, which would be ridiculous for someone who defeated an Archdemon, I really don’t see it working to well.

Edit: I love having my posts garrbled when copy pasting.

love to import warden after all it says in ending he travels after hes done with the mother so there is a good chance that u will run into another blight either darkspawn find another old god or the architect becomes the new leader

[Cancermeat]

alickar wrote...

SDNcN wrote...


So since I keep seeing posts about how people want to continue into DA: 2 with their current character I figure there should be thread about why not.

So here is why we shouldn’t!
(There are spoilers for DA:O and Awakening)

Dragon Age: Origins was an epic journey, not the start of one.

The two Bioware games in which the main character was continued into the sequel, Baldur’s Gate and Mass Effect, were clearly set up so the main character would carry over smoothly into the second. Baldur’s Gate made the character a Baalspawn and structured the story entirely around it. Mass Effect made it repeatedly clear that Sheppard is the one of the only people who full understands that Reapers are coming and talented enough to actually stop them.

Dragon Age: Origins however lacks any ongoing personal issues that would be enough to support another game – Morrigan’s child doesn’t count (see below) – and it doesn’t set up some looming disaster that only the Grey Warden can avert. At the end of Origins the PC gathered up allies from across the country and became the only one in history to end the Blight before it destroyed a number of nations. That is epic. There was the problem of the Darkspawn remaining above surface post Origins, but that was taken care of in Awakening. What exactly is left for the PC to accomplish that really can’t be accomplished by anyone else?

More Morrigan!

Morrigan ending up with a child, god or not, is only one of a number of possible outcomes.  Unless the people who want this to be the focus of a sequel also want it forced on as a cannon ending, this event making up an entire sequel seems ridiculous.  The plotline being continued as a DLC or subplot of an Expansion for Origins would be a better way to give players a sense of resolution without disappointing everyone who didn’t follow that plotline.

But then again Morrigan made it pretty clear throughout Origins that the PC would regret forming a relationship
with her in the end. If that PC never finds her, then well, she warned them beforehand. Not all stories need to have a happy ending.

But I am so attached to my character and their companions!

And so people want more time adventuring with them? This is understandable, but more for sake of more is
hardly a compelling reason to continue to use them. Posts asking for adventures in Orlais with Leliana or in Antiva with Zevran tend to focus on how utterly amazing it would be to see another area of Thedas with their favorite companion, but gloss over why exactly it is absolutely important for the PC and their companions to be there.

Thedas

The PC from DA: O traveling to another country removes one of the better features of DA: O, the actual origin
stories. The Origin stories in DA: O allowed the player to experience firsthand what it is like to be an oppressed elf in the Alienage or brutality of Dwarven politics, but they also gave the player a connection to areas or people they
would meet later in the game. Without this feature the main character essentially becomes a wandering hero (ine) and removes a lot of emotion for the sake of continuation.

Let’s say in DA: 2 is set in another country like Orlais, which is suffering from a serious threat that could possibly
bring ruin to their nation. Why exactly would the DA: O PC care enough to get involved?

 If the answer is that Leliana is from Orlais and you can adventure there with her again, then at that point you are relying on another character’s motivation instead of your own. If that is the case then your character isn’t even needed for the story and just a side-kick for Leliana. (Wait this might be a good idea. Leliana could get her own game.)

 A new protagonist with ties to that region through their Origin story would have stronger reasons to get involved than would a wanderer type hero and strengthen the story as a whole. Imagine if DA: O removed origins all together and instead you simply played as a Grey Warden from Orlais. That is essentially what would happen to DA: 2 if we carried over our character.

Just look at Awakening and the number of people who are upset that there isn't enough connections to Origins. Imagine the disconnect of playing your character in another country.


Ferelden

If a sequel is set in Ferelden it would be much easier to carry over the protagonist from DA: O into it. At the
end of DA: O the player, regardless of how they acted, would have a lot of connections people and places in the country. Also there is more potential for smaller decisions to carry over through import. Only real problem I see is
having another major event happen there within the Warden’s shortened lifetime that doesn’t feel like it is just an after adventure of the Warden. Those can fit into DLC and smaller expansions.

Before someone says Qunari invasion, Sten never said when it would happen and his people are further north
fighting Tevinter. The Qunari intend to convert everyone to the Qun, his statements could just acknowledge the fact that one day the Qunari will attack Ferelden because of it.

The Warden’s power is over 9,000!

At the end of Awakening or even Origins, the Warden is a beast. Even with the improved AI using more spells and
skills in Awakening, it wasn’t enough to keep up with the Warden even on higher difficulty levels. Unless players are willing to rollback their characters to a lower level with lower level gear, which would be ridiculous for someone who defeated an Archdemon, I really don’t see it working to well.

Edit: I love having my posts garrbled when copy pasting.

love to import warden after all it says in ending he travels after hes done with the mother so there is a good chance that u will run into another blight either darkspawn find another old god or the architect becomes the new leader

you make a good point

[SDNcN]

glenboy24 wrote...

Though it may or may not have been thier initial intent to simply create a Universe in which to flush out a multitude of stories, in this particular instance, i.e. Dragon Age, Bioware may have become the victim of thier own creative power.

There is no ambiguity in that quote. Dragon Age was created as a sandbox to tell fantasy stories, not made to support one iconic hero with his or her meta-plot stretching numerous titles.

All one has to do it look at the dozens upon dozens of post from players upset that the choices which they made, or characters that they became deeply connected to, did not transfer over into Awakening.

Now, imagine the type of reaction which would occur if the Warden Hero of DA:O never appears in DA:2? Despite the fact that Bioware intended to introduce new Heroes for every consecutive Dragon Age to come, it seems highly unlikely that they will choose to go that route now given the outcry from the fan base. Though this thread Highlights the pros of *Not* transfering over the Warden from DA:O to DA:2, the OP even points out that there have been a Great Many threads demanding the return of the Warden for the sequel. Can you honestly say, despite the Quotes you located, that Bioware will alienate so many of thier customers by ridding the Dragon Age story of thier original Hero?

Yes.
If a new game is released people will have a chance to enjoy a new adventure and get to know new characters. Some people just can't imagine enjoying a new game or new characters because they haven't played the game yet. I am sure if I looked on various forums for posts made pre-release of DA:O, most likely I will find a number of people who just couldn't imagine enjoying a game without Minsc or Viconia and thus hated the idea of Dragon Age before they even played it

You put too much weight in how much opinions expressed on forums effect how game developers make their games. Dozens upon dozens of posts conveying utter sadness over never grouping with Alistair again is not
representative of everyone who bought DA:O or who may buy DA:2. And even so you are completely ignoring the posts made by people who want a new protagonist and the Grey Warden to be put to rest.

If anything, Bioware has shown a new penchant for wanting to make as much coin as possible (and no, I do not mean that in a negative fashion) as such, they understand that they are more likely to make a profit by bringing back the Warden and the beloved Characters (i.e. not *just* Orghren) in the following titles.

They are more likely to make a profit in future titles by having better bug fixing, improving the graphics, improving existing game mechanics, and innovating new ones.

Again, yes, it may not have been thier intention to make the Dragon Age Saga a Trilogy; but, you know what? Plans change. And given the Strong connection to the Warden and the choices made in DA:O don't delude yourself into thinking that DA:2 will be a completely new Chapter with *only* a New Hero. As I stated in my previous post, for certain they will give players the option to create a New Hero, but I would bet Cold Hard Cash that our DA:O Warden will still be the Canon choice. 

Well then send me to Bedlam.

Modifié par SDNcN, 23 mars 2010 - 01:04 .

[Red Frostraven]

First, let it be said that I like Dragon Age better than Planescape: Torment and better than Baldur's Gate 1, better than Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2, and better than Morrowind and Oblivion, and better than Fallout 1, 2 and 3.
AND that I liked those games.
BUT I feel that the game mechanics in Dragon Age got old very fast, especially the repetitive use of the few select talents and spells that work well.

Two points:
1: The character is powerful enough to kill an archdemon with his hands tied behind his back at the end of Awakening.

2: I don't know about you, but I would REALLY like to see a complete class and skill overhaul.
It was great fun to use Force Cage the first 100 times, and Glyph of Paralysis the first 500 times, and creating a Paralysis Explosion the first 100 times.
...
But the 1 000th time I used the same three spells I also used in 990 out of the previous battles, it started to get old to use the same few select spells and talents over and over again -- because so many spells and talents are useless.
I'd also like to see non-daggers become more viable, and two-handed weapons become worthwile.
A complete talent and spells overhaul.

What I want is to start anew with a character with a richer talent and spell system, in a setting where my next character isn't powerful enough to defeat old gods by the end of the first game, where he can continue to the next full game expansion.
Level 16 seems to be a fine place to stop progression in an overhauled skills system, in the very same world. I mean. You were level 5 before the game truly had started.
How about giving out three starting talents and skillpoints (level lock skills) and ten starting attribute points?
That allows for a main character that doesn't need to jump to level 3 to be interesting.

Keep the world, upgrade the mechanics, new main character.

Modifié par Red Frostraven, 23 mars 2010 - 01:14 .

[SDNcN]

BubbleDncr wrote...

I'm, at this point, kind of convinced that the sequel will continue with the same Warden.Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the epilogues from Awakening seem to say that the Warden just disappears after awhile, unless you've romanced Morrigan it says you go to Orlais to look for her? That's just what I've heard. So, if the next game takes place with the Warden in Orlais, it doesn't really matter what a lot of the decisions you made in Ferelden were - won't matter who the king of Orzammar is, or what happened to the mages or the Dalish. I mean, how much of the current going-ons in Orlais effect Fereldon? 

We know more post release content for Origins is comming. There isn't anything to suggest that the Warden can't be concluded in that content.

Modifié par SDNcN, 23 mars 2010 - 01:23 .

[Leifa]

SDNcN wrote...

We know more post release content for Origins is comming. There isn't anything to suggest that the Warden can't be concluded in that content.

That, (the lack of conclusion) I think, is at the root of many people’s frustration and disappointment.
 
You see, in my first play through, Alistair died. And, as no one ever spoils anything in my charming family, I did not know that Riordan would die, or that I would not be able to sacrifice myself. In their first play through, the other charming family members, being male, were able to make the sacrifice and did so. And what we all had in common, with those endings, was the sense that the story was over.
 
Now afterwards, of course, we made new PCs which, this time around, stooped so low as to accept Morrigan’s deal. And then came that dreadful little bubble that stated that our adventure was not over <-- see, that’s the culprit. Bad bubble!
 
The best, in my opinion, would have been to make clear in DA:O’s epilogue, that the story was indeed over.
 
I think that the game should have been built to offer only those two alternatives in the end, for they were those which yielded the most intense emotional results. And the epilogue should have stated, depending on either outcome, that that story was over with.
 
DA:O was so amazing, that there was no need to promise more in order to sell the next story. A brand new DA story, with new PCs, would have been fine. And I say this respectfully of those who worked so hard on the game. I think that’s what got people (myself included) somewhat upset at “Awakening”. We really expected some sort of conclusion, at the very least, and didn’t get it.
 
So what I would propose to BioWare is very simple. The solution to this mess lies in communication. Be open and let everyone in. Tell your little Wardens what is going on, let them know what to expect, and most of us will be happy no matter the consequences. And for those who don’t appreciate your efforts to be honest and open, well they only deserve to be ignored.
 
That, in my opinion, would calm the forums and restore trust to those who have always had faith in BioWare’s integrity. And it certainly could not hurt the sales of future products.  
Just MHO.

[Behindyounow]

Continuing the Grey Warden means no Origins in the next game.



IMO, the Origins were one of the best parts of Dragon age. The sequel just wouldn't be the same without them.

[alickar]

also in a way origins means how u became a grey warden and what being a grey warden means so if continued DAO2 it would make sense if not continued to DAO2 and had to make another char would not make sense i mean how did this defalt char become a warden? so i think you should import

[Behindyounow]

Why would they have to be a Warden? Theres more stuff going on than Blights.

[Liquidcz]

Why would the Wardens care only about Blights? They don't enter some sort of "hibernation" or whatever when there are no Blights.