54 réponses à ce sujet

[MerinTB]

Darth-Mandalore wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

The Atom isn't Ant-Man or Shrinking Violet - he actually does things with his weight and density, and is a scientist so he helps with figuring things out as well.  Atom can go into the sub-atomic world as well.  It's more than just getting small.

Yes but what can he do that most superheroes cant do better? What problems would he be a suitable candidate to fix?

Besides if I needed a scientist I would call Batman, dispite having no superpowers he is probably one of the more dangerous superheroes, if he put his mind to it he could take down Superman easily.

The whole "Batman can take down Superman" meme is just so much fan-boy stupidity.  Superman could blanket a square mile in heat vision blasts from orbit faster than Batman could reach for his utility belt.  He can hurl a mountain-top at Wayne manor while Bruce is sleeping.  For Batman to win, Superman would have to get close enough for Bats to pull a hunk of kryptonite on him.  Really, if a Kryptonian wanted to kill one human, the Kryptonian wins.  Everything else is fan-fiction, even if written by Frank Miller.

As for Atom - he stopped the Dark Heart when the rest of the Justice League failed to stop it.

From the comics, let's just go to Wikipedia:

The Atom/Ray Palmer possesses the power to alter his size down to the
subatomic level while retaining his natural strength level. This is
accomplished by using the remnants of a white-dwarf star made into a
belt buckle worn with his costume. The Atom is one of the only heroes in
the DC Universe that has 100% control over his body on the molecular
level (Plastic Man and The Flash being examples of others), thus making
him exponentially more powerful than he is often portrayed; he is only
limited by his application of his powers.
He has been shown to be able to ride phone lines to his destination
by dialing a number and traveling through the handset (his signature use
of his power), and recently shrinking small enough to travel on photon
signals through fiber optic cable (Blackest Night #4).
Some of The Atom's more impressive feats include shrinking into
Superman's bloodstream and manually rearranging his molecules to create Kryptonite
and diffusing Black Lantern Al Pratt's Atomic Punch and resizing within him, ripping his
body apart in the process (Blackest Night #4).

Try those for "what can Atom do that most super-heroes can't do better" - I want to see Black Canary or Batman or Fire or Vibe or Steel or Hourman or a whole slew of other DC Heroes attempt half of that.

[Darth-Mandalore]

MerinTB wrote...

Darth-Mandalore wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

The Atom isn't Ant-Man or Shrinking Violet - he actually does things with his weight and density, and is a scientist so he helps with figuring things out as well.  Atom can go into the sub-atomic world as well.  It's more than just getting small.

Yes but what can he do that most superheroes cant do better? What problems would he be a suitable candidate to fix?

Besides if I needed a scientist I would call Batman, dispite having no superpowers he is probably one of the more dangerous superheroes, if he put his mind to it he could take down Superman easily.

The whole "Batman can take down Superman" meme is just so much fan-boy stupidity.  Superman could blanket a square mile in heat vision blasts from orbit faster than Batman could reach for his utility belt.  He can hurl a mountain-top at Wayne manor while Bruce is sleeping.  For Batman to win, Superman would have to get close enough for Bats to pull a hunk of kryptonite on him.  Really, if a Kryptonian wanted to kill one human, the Kryptonian wins.  Everything else is fan-fiction, even if written by Frank Miller.

As for Atom - he stopped the Dark Heart when the rest of the Justice League failed to stop it.

From the comics, let's just go to Wikipedia:

The Atom/Ray Palmer possesses the power to alter his size down to the
subatomic level while retaining his natural strength level. This is
accomplished by using the remnants of a white-dwarf star made into a
belt buckle worn with his costume. The Atom is one of the only heroes in
the DC Universe that has 100% control over his body on the molecular
level (Plastic Man and The Flash being examples of others), thus making
him exponentially more powerful than he is often portrayed; he is only
limited by his application of his powers.
He has been shown to be able to ride phone lines to his destination
by dialing a number and traveling through the handset (his signature use
of his power), and recently shrinking small enough to travel on photon
signals through fiber optic cable (Blackest Night #4).
Some of The Atom's more impressive feats include shrinking into
Superman's bloodstream and manually rearranging his molecules to create Kryptonite
and diffusing Black Lantern Al Pratt's Atomic Punch and resizing within him, ripping his
body apart in the process (Blackest Night #4).

Try those for "what can Atom do that most super-heroes can't do better" - I want to see Black Canary or Batman or Fire or Vibe or Steel or Hourman or a whole slew of other DC Heroes attempt half of that.

Ok ok you have a point with superman but still while the other superheroes cannot replicate the Atom's style of accomplishing things they could probably accomplish the same things more efficiently.

Lets take the Atom's ability to shrink himself down and use the phone line or fibre optic cable to travel thus allowing him to reach his destination at the speed of light, this is all well and good but cant Superman fly at nearly the speed of light? Sure both Heroes can travel between places very quickly but the Atom can only do it provided that there is a phone line or fibre optic cable linking his destinations where as Superman or the Flash can pretty much do it anywhere at any time.

My point is there isnt much the Atom can accomplish that most superheroes cant do better, sure he may have a different way of doing things but why shrink down and destroy a machine from the inside when superman could just hurl it into the sun?

[Weiser_Cain]

Batman's biggest limitation is his unwillingness to use his knowledge and abilities to it's fullest. He could grant himself any number of powers if he wished and put Ironman, Dr Doom, and Lex Luthor to shame. Just look at Owlman in that new dc cartoon.

[MerinTB]

I don't know when it got added to Batman's repertoire that he's a genius, but I do think Batman has become something of a mockery of himself. Why does he have to be the smartest man and the best martial arts fighter and the world's greatest detective and the most brilliant tactician...



I think he was far cooler when he was more human - when he was a highly skilled fighter who used fear and keen detective skills to stop criminals. This uber-Batman of late really turns me off.



Personal preference, I know.

---



Oh, as for others being able to do things better than Atom - sure.

And other DC heroes have Hourman's strength and resilience (or greater) for more than an hour, like Superman who can also fly.

And other DC heroes have heat-based powers like Fire's (or greater) and can do more, like being invulnerable like Superman.

And other DC heroes can move at super-speed like the Flash, but do other things like freezing cold breath - like Superman.

And there are other DC heroes who have "x-ray" vision, strength, speed, invulnerability, flight, super-hearing, etc., like Superman, without the kryptonite weakness (like any Daxamite) and can do other things as well like shapeshift, turn invisible, turn intangible, stretch, and have the most powerful telepathic mind on Earth - like Martian Manhunter.



If you gauge of "someone else can do it better" - pretty much the whole DC universe of heroes pale before the Kryptonians, the Daxamites, and the Martians.

[Sloth Of Doom]

MerinTB wrote...

I don't know when it got added to Batman's repertoire that he's a genius, but I do think Batman has become something of a mockery of himself. Why does he have to be the smartest man and the best martial arts fighter and the world's greatest detective and the most brilliant tactician...

I think he was far cooler when he was more human - when he was a highly skilled fighter who used fear and keen detective skills to stop criminals. This uber-Batman of late really turns me off.

Personal preference, I know.

I agree with this 100%.  Unfortunately a lot of good superheros are ruined by this phenomenon as each new writer feels like they need to add something to the hero to make him "theirs"

A perfect example of this is Superman.   I hate the current superman, his powers make no sense and he has become so unbelievably strong that writers have to put him in ridiculous circumstances to make anything a challenge.   With his current powers there is really no need for all of these other heroes in the DC universe since Superman could destroy most lesser heroes nemesis in a matter of seconds.

Golden Age Superman was a guy from a world with heavy gravity and so on earth he appeared extremely powerful.  His original powers were an extremely thick skin which made him durable, enhanced senses, and powerful muscles that allowed him to jump extremely far (Yes jump, not fly....think hulk) and run very fast.   That was it.  And you know what?  He was more interesting that way.   All of this Yellow Sun crap added in the Silver and Bronze Ages has ruined the hero...much as modern day additions to batman are ruining another DC great.

Just my opinion and I am sure rabid superfans will now pounce on me for thinking their hero is a uninteresting parody of an actual comic book hero.

Modifié par Sloth Of Doom, 22 mars 2010 - 05:01 .

[Loerwyn]

I prefer 60s TV show Batman to the "modern" Batman.

I think it was the late 80s/early 90s that turned everything really dark and I don't like it

Holy molars, Batman!

[Stanley Woo]

What about Night Thrasher? Or Aquaman?

[Sloth Of Doom]

I just thought of a really, really sub par superhero.:

Dogwelder, from he "Hitman" series by Garth Ennis.

Just looking at his name you might think...wtf...is this a dog that welds? That would be silly.

Dogwelder is, of course, a guy welding dead dogs to the faces of bad guys.

I wish I was making that up.

Modifié par Sloth Of Doom, 22 mars 2010 - 05:13 .

[Sloth Of Doom]

Stanley Woo wrote...

What about Night Thrasher? Or Aquaman?

I see your aquaman and raise you....aqualad.

Because Aquaman needs a lamer version of himself to hang around with.

[Seagloom]

Okay. That's a new one for me. Dogwelder? Seriously? This was so bizarre I had to share it immediately, and unsurprisingly it resulted in puzzled looks from some and laughs from others. How do you even weld flesh to flesh? O.o

[JRCHOharry]

I seriously hope that is a real comic book because I SO WANT ONE!

[Sloth Of Doom]

JRCHOharry wrote...

I seriously hope that is a real comic book because I SO WANT ONE!

It is not only real, it is DC cannon.  Thats right, you may one day see a Dogwelder/Batman crossover. Hell, Section 8 (the team of which Dogwelder is a member) is based out of Gotham City!  Although, now that I think of it I believe Dogwelder may be dead...

[Twitchmonkey]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

It is not only real, it is DC cannon.  Thats right, you may one day see a Dogwelder/Batman crossover. Hell, Section 8 (the team of which Dogwelder is a member) is based out of Gotham City!  Although, now that I think of it I believe Dogwelder may be dead...

Just about everyone involved in that team is in the running for best/worst superhero. Shakes gets my vote.

[Sloth Of Doom]

Twitchmonkey wrote...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

It is not only real, it is DC cannon.  Thats right, you may one day see a Dogwelder/Batman crossover. Hell, Section 8 (the team of which Dogwelder is a member) is based out of Gotham City!  Although, now that I think of it I believe Dogwelder may be dead...

Just about everyone involved in that team is in the running for best/worst superhero. Shakes gets my vote.

Shakes was awesome.   He gave Friendly Fire someone awesome to torch all of the time so the more useful members such as the Defensetrator didn't have to worry about it.

[Loerwyn]

Maybe what we should get is a Great Lakes Avengers vs Section 8 thing going.

[The Angry One]

Grey Wardens!



/flee

[MerinTB]

Stanley Woo wrote...

What about Night Thrasher? Or Aquaman?

Night Thrasher... was a skate-boarding young Batman.  While I'm not a fan, Dwayne is really only "lame" if you consider Batman clones lame.

But I can see that point.

Poor Aquaman doesn't get much love.  He's basically DC's Sub-Mariner

- King of Atlantis
- super-human strength and resiliance
- ability to telepathically communicate with and control aquatic life
- breathe water (this is where he gets mocked)
- super-human swimmer

at varying times he could do "hard water" stunts, or had a harpoon hand, or had a magical water hand that could heal...

Aquaman, IMO, is far less lame than Vigilante or The Punisher, but that's personal preference.

All Namor has on Aquaman is that Namor can fly.  And Namor has those really stupid looking tiny wings on his feet, so why he gets to be "cool" I'll never know.

The orange shirt with green finned pants is TACKY, so Arthur should win worst costume perhaps.
---

Some more I think should be considered for "sub par superheroes"

Maggot (from the X-Men)
Skin (from Generation Next)
Swordsman (not even of Black Knight quality)
Grifter (Image)
Elongated Man (sorry, Ralph, being a detective with a twitching nose doesn't make up for the fact that ALL you can do is extend body parts)
Blue Devil (DC - back when he was just a stunt man in a suit)
Guy Gardner as Green Lantern or Warrior (prior to the GLC comic) (unless you really like jerks who become the butt of jokes)
almost the entire Legion of Substitute Heroes (Stone Boy, Color Kid and Porcupine Pete in particular)
Goliath (when Hawkeye used the Pym particles and put down his bow)

[Sloth Of Doom]

What about Matter Eater Lad? He could eat anything (but didn't eat people).

[Bruce Venne]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

What about Matter Eater Lad? He could eat anything (but didn't eat people).

Matter-Eating Lad is great because he CAN eat anything.  Hey look there's a doomsday device, let's get ME-Lad to eat it (which he did one time and it drove him insane)  Worried about that pool of toxic waste, just get ME-Lad to eat it.  Problem solved.  He's a great hero because his super-power is unique.  Do we really need another hero is super-strong,  super agile or has enhanced healing.  Those guys are a dime a dozen while ME-Lad is one of a kind.

Aquaman:  Being able to communicate with any sea life is not lame.  Imagine how much life exists in the oceans.  Everything from large mammals to microscopic organisms.  And Aquaman can communicate, and command, all of it.  That makes him incredibly powerful.  He commands the largest army in the world.  Plus he is the King of Atlantis, the oldest civilization on Earth (if you assume that Atlantis survived it's destruction that means that Atlantis has been around for ten thousand plus years making it the oldest known city.  It's older than Rome, or Cairo or London.  Pllus he can survive at the bottom of the sea meaning he can see in absolute darkness, and resist extraordinary pressures.  And he has a really hot wife.

Squirrel Girl:  One, she's awesome.  Two, she's Squirrel Girl.  And third, she's AWESOME!

[Bruce Venne]

MerinTB wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

What about Night Thrasher? Or Aquaman?

Grifter (Image)

Elongated Man (sorry, Ralph, being a detective with a twitching nose doesn't make up for the fact that ALL you can do is extend body parts)
Blue Devil (DC - back when he was just a stunt man in a suit)

(edited the quote)


Grifter I agree with.  He's boring.  You can't swing a dead super-cat in comics without hitting a smart alex with a gun. 

I love the Elongated Man.  What you mean, "ALL you can do is extend body parts"  Can you do that?  Extending body parts is handy power to have if you're a detective, as shown in the Incredibles, when Elasti-Girl was sneaking around the base.  Another thing Elongated Man has going for him is his wife Sue.  They're the Nick and Nora of comics (now they're the ghost Nick and Nora)

Blue "stuck in his suit" Devil was great because he was fun.  He was a weirdness magnet.  The stories were over the top, goofy and just plain fun.

[MerinTB]

Bruce Venne wrote...
Squirrel Girl:  One, she's awesome.  Two, she's Squirrel Girl.  And third, she's AWESOME!

While I will neither defend nor condemn Matter-Eater Lad...

I do like Squirrel Girl. 
Poor Monkey Joe.

[Loerwyn]

Bruce Venne wrote...

Squirrel Girl:  One, she's awesome.  Two, she's Squirrel Girl.  And third, she's AWESOME!

Four, she's cute. Five, Great Lakes Avengers.

[MerinTB]

Bruce Venne wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
Elongated Man (sorry, Ralph, being a detective with a twitching nose doesn't make up for the fact that ALL you can do is extend body parts)
Blue Devil (DC - back when he was just a stunt man in a suit)

I love the Elongated Man.  What you mean, "ALL you can do is extend body parts"  Can you do that?  Extending body parts is handy power to have if you're a detective, as shown in the Incredibles, when Elasti-Girl was sneaking around the base.  Another thing Elongated Man has going for him is his wife Sue.  They're the Nick and Nora of comics (now they're the ghost Nick and Nora)

Blue "stuck in his suit" Devil was great because he was fun.  He was a weirdness magnet.  The stories were over the top, goofy and just plain fun.

Elongated Man is super-lame compare to Mr. Fantasic (plasticity is way better than limb extension) or to Plastic Man (again, plasticity and basically immortal.)  Reed is a super-genius, Eel was a former criminal and a bit greedy plus a goofball.  Ralph - Ralph had a nice wife and was a good friend, so he's a great person but still a sub par superhero.
And Elasti-Girl had plasticity as well - and she was, as much as I liked The Pixar Fantastic Four, er, Incredible, Elasti-Girl was still kinda lame.
As for me not being able to do it - I can't turn myself into an immobile statue, either, nor fire sharp spines from my body - but I'm not crying over it.

Blue Devil never did anything for me, but if you found him fun, cool beans.

Modifié par MerinTB, 22 mars 2010 - 09:04 .

[Sloth Of Doom]

Bruce Venne wrote...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

What about Matter Eater Lad? He could eat anything (but didn't eat people).

Matter-Eating Lad is great because he CAN eat anything.  Hey look there's a doomsday device, let's get ME-Lad to eat it (which he did one time and it drove him insane)  Worried about that pool of toxic waste, just get ME-Lad to eat it.  Problem solved.  He's a great hero because his super-power is unique.  Do we really need another hero is super-strong,  super agile or has enhanced healing.  Those guys are a dime a dozen while ME-Lad is one of a kind.

I don;t remember him eating a doomsday device, but then again I haven;t read everything.  Was it like, a really small doomsday device?  It isn't like he has a giant mouth or anything.  As for that toxic waste....that is why the Legion had Chemical King!

Being unique doesn't make you awesome.  Arm-Fall-Off Boy was unique and he didn't even make the Legion of Superheroes.