55 réponses à ce sujet

[Gabey5]

no angry boy no...oghren is loved

[Ravenfeeder]

When Mhairi died I thought it was because I was a warrior and that if I'd been a mage Anders would die or Nate if I was a rogue. That would have been cool, but no...

[Marso40]

No perfect solution here, but here are some potential options:



1. Make who dies totally random. If you only kill off one recruit, then gameplay-wise it's a wash. If you kill two, you introduce some wildly random elements. Say that Anders and Velanna are the two to die? Unless your reload*, you now have to complete the game with no mages, I did it in Origins, but some people cringe at the very thought, especially when it comes to crafting. But hey, we do have those respec tomes here.



* As game designer, I would have rigged this so that it is impossible to reload after the joining without going all the way back to the first joining. I hate to metagame this way: I would literally deal with whoever dies and press on as best I was able. Some of my best moments with DA have been dealing with unexpected elements when they turn up. For some people it spoils the enjoyment, though. I understand that.



2. Keep it the way it is- scripted deaths. I would have chosen Velanna or Anders to bite it. You really don't need two mages in a party, but a normal human warrior (male or female) would have been nice. Instead we get either Oghren, who is good for laughs, or Justice. I don't really care much for Justice. Is he the same spirit you meet in the fade in the Mage origin in DAO by the way?



3. This falls into metagaming, but you could literally leave it up to the players at the start. Drop a hint in the manual or something that the second person you offer the cup to is going to die in the first joining, so choose who you will. Sort of kills the gameplay for me, but some people might prefer to cherry-pick their recruits.



I would have liked Mhairi to live. I love Oghren to death but he gets old fast, especially when I have to respec him to sword and board most games. (I'm not a big 2H fan, although I don't boycott it completely...)

[casedawgz]

Marso40 wrote...

No perfect solution here, but here are some potential options:

1. Make who dies totally random. If you only kill off one recruit, then gameplay-wise it's a wash. If you kill two, you introduce some wildly random elements. Say that Anders and Velanna are the two to die? Unless your reload*, you now have to complete the game with no mages, I did it in Origins, but some people cringe at the very thought, especially when it comes to crafting. But hey, we do have those respec tomes here.

* As game designer, I would have rigged this so that it is impossible to reload after the joining without going all the way back to the first joining. I hate to metagame this way: I would literally deal with whoever dies and press on as best I was able. Some of my best moments with DA have been dealing with unexpected elements when they turn up. For some people it spoils the enjoyment, though. I understand that.

2. Keep it the way it is- scripted deaths. I would have chosen Velanna or Anders to bite it. You really don't need two mages in a party, but a normal human warrior (male or female) would have been nice. Instead we get either Oghren, who is good for laughs, or Justice. I don't really care much for Justice. Is he the same spirit you meet in the fade in the Mage origin in DAO by the way?

3. This falls into metagaming, but you could literally leave it up to the players at the start. Drop a hint in the manual or something that the second person you offer the cup to is going to die in the first joining, so choose who you will. Sort of kills the gameplay for me, but some people might prefer to cherry-pick their recruits.

I would have liked Mhairi to live. I love Oghren to death but he gets old fast, especially when I have to respec him to sword and board most games. (I'm not a big 2H fan, although I don't boycott it completely...)

To answer your question about Justice, I believe the one in the mage origin was a Spirit of Valor.

[Majere613]

I absolutely agree with the OP. I don't have major feelings about Mhairi either way, but it's undeniable that having Oghren die in the Joining would have really rammed the point home that this is not something that you undertake lightly. As it was, they really, really cheapen it in DA:A, what with Anders and Oghren taking the whole thing so lightly and no-one seeming to even bat an eyelid when the one recruit with the right attitude to be a Warden dies. I also completely agree that it would have added a lot of drama and resonance to the story to have to follow in the footsteps of Duncan and kill a recruit who tried to back out.

You want a real, powerful moral choice to make? Be in Duncan's shoes, have that recruit refuse the vial, and decide what to do with them. Let them go, possibly endangering the Wardens? Force it down their throat? Kill them?

[Efesell]

Stab em, right away.



Even had a knife ready, dubbed "The Jory".

[Marso40]

Efesell wrote...

Stab em, right away.

Even had a knife ready, dubbed "The Jory".

Hmm. I always thought 'The Murder Knife' had a clever ring to it. Kudos to whoever it was that came up with it- wasn't me.

I like 'The Jory' as well, though. It's gotta be a Dar'misu, though!! 

[KnightofPhoenix]

I am surprised it took you that long to make a thred about this Angry One. I thought a thread would be made in the first hours after release

I love how Mhairi died. It's sad and that's the point.

[Efesell]

I'm kind of with the people who think she needed at least another mission so that I could begin to care about her a bit more.

As such, it's not really "Oh no! Mhairi!" as "Oh no! my tank!"

Modifié par Efesell, 22 mars 2010 - 12:49 .

[TheBlackBaron]

Efesell wrote...

Stab em, right away.

Even had a knife ready, dubbed "The Jory".

Lulz.

Somebody should mod that in, and make it replace the Warden's standard "I KEEL YOU NOW" knife.

[Onyx Jaguar]

The Angry One wrote...

You should've killed Oghren in the Joining.
Killing Mhairi was pointless trolling of the fanbase. She was the female-warrior-npc-archetype breaker the fans had been wanting since DA:O. You shouldn't have killed her off. That simple.
Of course, Anders being the male-mage-npc-archetype breaker shouldn't have been killed in her place. Plus he's a lot of fun and I'd have screamed bloody murder if it had been him.

But Oghren? Oghren's a contemptable and drunk waste of space. All of his character development from DA:O was reverted anyway. You didn't do anything with him! So why not just kill him off right there?
I guarantee you nobody would've seen that coming, whereas I had the nagging feeling that either Anders or Mhairi was going to buy it since well, the both of them represented such a perfect response to our wishes that I knew it was too good to be true.

I was surprised how annoying Oghren was in Awakenings. 

Also Mhairi dying wans't that hard to predict, her character icon wasn't even colored like the rest of the red shirt NPC's in DA, or Origin NPC's.  Still with how the party members were set up in Awakenings it would have been interesting if they randomized it depending on your player class...

Another problem is that it is the only time someone bites it during the joining in Awakenings, so in the end it was rather predictable.  At least the gameplay choice near the end of the game made up for this rather lightweight plot development.

[Mondo_]

It would have been cool if they could randomly die. Then next playthrough would be different.



You need Oghren to ask Justice the questions everyone is dieing to know, TAO.

[cmessaz]

Efesell wrote...

I'm kind of with the people who think she needed at least another mission so that I could begin to care about her a bit more.

As such, it's not really "Oh no! Mhairi!" as "Oh no! my tank!"

Exactly. My only complaint is her death wasn't climatic enough.

Modifié par cmessaz, 22 mars 2010 - 01:05 .

[Kryyptehk]

I agree with the anti-climaticness. I don't think she should have been in the game more, but I think she should have been introduced later. They could have introduced her in Amaranthine, she could have been taken to the Keep later and killed then. That would have been surprising and that would have broken up the fact that everyone survives later on.



And not only that, but I think there should have been more characters. Like, Mhairi, who's whole purpose is to get killed off. Maybe two more so that it wouldn't be like everyone survived.

[Marso40]

Not a bad idea. Have a generic character planning to join the GW with you at first, pick up Mhairi in Amaranthine or maybe in the first mission down under Vigil, then have them both attend the joining and die. Or better yet, have Mhairi not die. Or something. Hell, I don't know.

[cmessaz]

Yeah, but I must admit, watching others go through the joining and pass out is funny as heck. Just seems like my joining was more, I don't know, painfull. I was looking forward to having a girl tank. Darn.

[Hyper Cutter]

Behindyounow wrote...
Mhairi was almost universally liked. Killing her definitely had an impact on the fanbase.

Not exactly the kind of impact Bioware wanted though, I think...

Behindyounow wrote...
Also, she deserved it. What kind of
idiot wants to be a Grey Warden?

Alistair? I mean, he
gets really pissy if you claim being a Warden is anything but an
honor (to say nothing of his legendary hissyfit over Loghain)...

Modifié par Hyper Cutter, 22 mars 2010 - 05:24 .

[Ceridraen]

I found her rather dull, but it's hard to say we see enough of her to dislike. I'd sadly read she was a goner before I started, so I wouldn't have gotten attached anyway. Oghren, I tried to like in Origins, but I find him snarkier in this one.

[Kryyptehk]

Ceridraen wrote...

I found her rather dull, but it's hard to say we see enough of her to dislike. I'd sadly read she was a goner before I started, so I wouldn't have gotten attached anyway. Oghren, I tried to like in Origins, but I find him snarkier in this one.

Yeah, she was very dull. A do-gooder knight?! Where ever have we seen that before?! She's sure to stay for the long run.

And I knew she was going to die because her profile picture wasn't customized.

[Ceridraen]

I pretty much saw her sent in ahead by Captain Kirk, yes. Not too surprising. I noticed that picture, too.

[Vicious]

Oghren came along nicely in DAO. He was easily one of my favorites.



In Awakenings however I hated him. Weird, I know.

[Ceridraen]

No, me, too. I got to really like him in Origins. He had a certain sweetness underlying the constant burping. This time, it's... hm - well, something about it reminds me of the Ewoks. When SW decided to go cute rather than character? That sort of feeling. Now he's too - self-referential or something. Maybe he'll deepen. I can't imagine enduring him long enough to find out.

[Efesell]

The only problem I have with Oghren in Awakening is that he doesn't roll with the punches as well anymore.

He's really not a character that should be so touchy.

[cmessaz]

Efesell wrote...

The only problem I have with Oghren in Awakening is that he doesn't roll with the punches as well anymore.
He's really not a character that should be so touchy.

Agreed. I haven't quite figured out how to raise his approval consistantly. He has definately changed.