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[errant_knight]

Just finished my first playthrough and, boy, do I ever have a bad taste in my mouth. Over all, I enjoyed it up until the end with only a couple of qualms (ignoring the new dialogue system which didn't work for me at all, but is a separate issue, I think). There were too many 'fetch 'x' number of 'y' quests, and I found some of the side quests pointlessly bleak (Corin's proposal, the man who couldn't buy the house).

I should have paid attention to those, however, because they were a sign of where this was going. It was a big sign that said 'don't expect fun. This is going to end badly.'  They were quests where there was no win, and there was no win in Awakening as a whole. It didn't have the fun of Origins at all. That was probably the point, to take it darker. It was certainly dark. Way too dark for me. I find myself wishing I'd stopped with Origins. It ruined my happy ending. It's possible that I just made all the wrong choices, but somehow, I suspect the ending is bleak no matter what you do.

I did all that work on the Vigil just so the defenders could be overwhelmed in a week rather than a day? Really? After the battle with the Mother, I expected to return to the keep to fight alonside my men. I also thought reinforcements might arrive, given that Alistair said that he'd be back as soon as possible. Even if he'd arrived too late, I expected him to show up. That was disappointing.

Not as disappointing as the last line of the epilogue though. My PC goes back to court only to disappear in a couple of years? Shades of KOTOR. I didn't like that then, and I like it even less now. I might feel differently about it if there'd been any mention of the companions going after him/her, but nope. Nothing.

Dark fantasy treads a fine line. I though Origins did that pretty well. It allowed for people to go well off the heroic track if they wished, but also allowed those who don't find that appealing to deal with difficult choices, but still feel like they'd achieved a victory, both for themselves, and their companions. Here? Not so much.

I might try playing it again and see if I can mitigate the level of 'bad' somewhat, but I find I don't actually want to. I'm pretty depressed about the whole thing.

[Venatio]

Its ok, your not alone. The game does at time seem to fight your progress, and some of the bugs and difficulties could have been avoided with more polish. Its true that in compare to origins DA - A cut some corners, but dont let that ruin your experience.

It could be that Bioware, or its higher ups in EA, wasnt pressured as much because it was a DLC, something that cant be bought from other people once used. There was also some issues with resources and a fixed release date, or so I hear. Maybe next time they'll beef up the experience a bit. And I also disliked that last omnious line, worked well enough with Revan and the Exile (still would like to know what happend) but in this case maybe they should have left it at "we'll see him/her again".

Though for the Noble's story, I wonder if those few years in court where long enough to have children....

Modifié par Venatio, 21 mars 2010 - 09:30 .

[Sarah1281]

It's possible to have the Keep withstand the attack and everyone decides its legendary and the whole 'disappears' thing is probably a sequel hook.

But yeah, all the people committing suicide left and right in side quests was kind of disturbing. And I still don't understand why at Kal'Hirol you encountered two random guys who hung someone for being an adulterer. Was there actually any suicide in the first game?

Modifié par Sarah1281, 21 mars 2010 - 10:12 .

[Venatio]

Sarah1281 wrote...

It's possible to have the Keep withstand the attack and everyone decides its legendary and the whole 'disappears' thing is probably a sequel hook.

But yeah, all the people committing suicide left and right in side quests was kin of disturbing. And I still don't understand why at Kal'Hirol you encountered two random guys who hung someone for being an adulterer. Was there actually any suicide in the first game?

Does Isolde's participation in the Blood Ritual count?

[Efesell]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Was there actually any suicide in the first game?

Uh, as part of the main quest no less.

[TheBlackBaron]

Gonna have to disagree with you about the story, errant_knight. I enjoyed that it was noticeably darker than Origins which, for all the marketing, was still pretty grayish; it had kind of a KotOR II feel to it. Might just be me, but it's time BioWare actually started punishing you for certain choices (evenly balanced between "Paragon" and "Renegade", if we must use adjectives), or at least making sure there's some bad with the good. It's nice to be able to save the city of Amaranthine, but with the very limited forces available to the Wardens it makes sense that it would doom the Vigil (I myself took the opposite approach, but that's neither here nor there).



You're not alone with the epilogue stuff, though. A lot of Alistair fans are upset (which I totally understand) and the Morrigan stuff is still depressing and somewhat bugged. The bright side I can see to it is that it practically guarantees at least one more EP for the Warden-Commander.

[Venatio]

Efesell wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Was there actually any suicide in the first game?

Uh, as part of the main quest no less.

Right, killing the Archdemon - never did do that. I saw the funeral scene in youtube and it was so depressiingly anti-climatic. They just drag your corpse to Redcliffe and put it on a stone slab for everyone to see. They say a few nice words but thats it, that and its slated to be shipped to Weishaupt for buriel in some fancy tomb.

I was expecting something more, I dont know, cinematic?

Modifié par Venatio, 21 mars 2010 - 09:35 .

[Efesell]

Also Carridin.



and potentially Isolde.

[Bitterfoam]

If you actually did do all the upgrades for Vigil's Keep, it never falls. It holds for a day, then another, then a week - this is a rough word-for-word of the quote - and then the epilogue text reads that the attackers broke upon its walls.



That means the siege failed. That means Vigil's Keep didn't fall. That would be why there were survivors.



Reading is generally key in a medium of text.

[errant_knight]

Sarah1281 wrote...

It's possible to have the Keep withstand the attack and everyone decides its legendary and the whole 'disappears' thing is probably a sequel hook.

But yeah, all the people committing suicide left and right in side quests was kin of disturbing. And I still don't understand why at Kal'Hirol you encountered two random guys who hung someone for being an adulterer. Was there actually any suicide in the first game?

In my ending the keep was legendary, as were the order of warriors if spawned, but almost everyone died, probably because I took people to Amaranthine. Basically, results were so mixed as to negate any feeling of victory, although only Justice died (I didn't accept Velanna as a warden--there was probably dialogue that I missed that might have allowed me to do so, but as my PC knew, she was a sociopath).

As for the diasppearing being a plot hook, past experience with Bioware games tells me that isn't necessarily so. And even if it is, there's no guarantee that we'll be seeing out companions again. That line is particularly galling since it takes away from the one happy moment in Awakening for me, the goodbye between Alistair and the PC. (Sidenote: why the heck did they have him say he'd be back if he wasn't going to be?)

I thought all the adultery stuff was weird, too. I thought that might be leading up to a conversation between a romantically involved PC and a companion, but no. It seemed to have no point except to be more depressing ephemera.

[chaosapiant]

Keep in mind that a lot of what the epilogue says happens many years after the events of the game. There is yet no reason to assume that your Grey Warden doesn't have more adventures before he disappears into the night.

[Efesell]

Most of the hooks are worded to suggest that future stories would be after that disappearance though.

[errant_knight]

Bitterfoam wrote...

If you actually did do all the upgrades for Vigil's Keep, it never falls. It holds for a day, then another, then a week - this is a rough word-for-word of the quote - and then the epilogue text reads that the attackers broke upon its walls.

That means the siege failed. That means Vigil's Keep didn't fall. That would be why there were survivors.

Reading is generally key in a medium of text.

Huh, I'd thank you, because I did read it as 'the attackers broke through the walls', but I find it impossible to do so since you took such pains to be a sarcastic ass.

In any case, the losses were described as being enormous, so I still wouldn't call it a victory.

chaosapiant wrote...

Keep in mind that a lot of what the epilogue says happens many years after the events of the game. There is yet no reason to assume that your Grey Warden doesn't have more adventures before he disappears into the night.

Well, it said that she returned to Denerim and Alistair was waiting for her at the gates, grinning from ear to ear, but that she disappeared a couple of years later. I'm not as concerned with playing further adventures before that disappearance as making sure the disappearance is very temporary.

Modifié par errant_knight, 21 mars 2010 - 09:46 .

[Bitterfoam]

Trust me, I took no pains. =D



There were heavy losses, sure. But the besieged force came out on top. That's a victory. That's actually the definition of "victory."

[Efesell]

Sorry to say that battles like that rarely end up with a completely happy outcome for everyone involved.

[Altered Idol]

The story of the expansion actually mirrors the expansion itself, at least to me.

I felt the game was somewhat pyrrhic in general.

It was a victory that we got a new expansion, but it tasted like a defeat because it didnt enhance the Origins universe in many ways. At least in my own opinion.

[Noir201]

Just over halfway in the game (playing slowly cause it's not as griping as origins was, and much much shorter) the way alot of the plot and pace, reminds me of kotor 2, which i didn't like.

From what i've heard, a dev said that the next dlc will explain the reason, from what sounds like a quite frankly poor ending, as to what happens next, i don't know if its 100% true tho.

[errant_knight]

Bitterfoam wrote...

Trust me, I took no pains. =D

There were heavy losses, sure. But the besieged force came out on top. That's a victory. That's actually the definition of "victory."

Lol! You just can't help yourself, can you. Okay. I can accept that. I rather admire consistancy.

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Gonna have to disagree with you about the story, errant_knight. I enjoyed that it was noticeably darker than Origins which, for all the marketing, was still pretty grayish; it had kind of a KotOR II feel to it. Might just be me, but it's time BioWare actually started punishing you for certain choices (evenly balanced between "Paragon" and "Renegade", if we must use adjectives), or at least making sure there's some bad with the good. It's nice to be able to save the city of Amaranthine, but with the very limited forces available to the Wardens it makes sense that it would doom the Vigil (I myself took the opposite approach, but that's neither here nor there).

You're not alone with the epilogue stuff, though. A lot of Alistair fans are upset (which I totally understand) and the Morrigan stuff is still depressing and somewhat bugged. The bright side I can see to it is that it practically guarantees at least one more EP for the Warden-Commander.

I realize that whether people agree with me or not is going to depend entirely on how dark people enjoy going. This one was darker than I find fun to play, and I don't play video games not to have fun. Others draw the line in different places.

I can accept that you couldn't save everything, and I knew there'd be heavy losses, but it didn't feel like a win at all. I think I might have felt more of a sense ov victory if I'd actually made it back to the keep, if reinforcements had arrived.... Really, anything to make it not feel like I abandoned them all. It could basically have had the same result, the same losses, if I was there to see the last of the Darkspawn driven out.

Modifié par errant_knight, 21 mars 2010 - 09:58 .

[Cosmicinator]

errant_knight wrote...
I suspect the ending is bleak no matter what you do.

Nope, my ending was pretty happy, my Warden went off with Alistair on adventures and fun across Thedas, and all my companions lived full and happy lives...

...Well, I don't know about Velanna, chasing after her sister and going crazy...

...And there's Sigrun, running off to her Calling.

Modifié par Cosmicinator, 21 mars 2010 - 09:57 .

[Vicious]

They shot more for Dark Fantasy rather than Heroic Fantasy, I thought it was obvious. If you play your cards right the Keep never falls and you save most everyone. Your companions might die, but they knew the risks when they drank the blood.



I was a bit disappointed by the ending 'The Warden disappeared...' but I imagine one more expansion is on the way, or we will see The Warden in a sequel.





That said, I have to disagree with you on most counts. While some things i didn't enjoy [dialogue with companions was oddly presented and gifts make approval maxing trivial] but I felt Awakenings had a FAR greater sense of urgency than DAO did, and I greatly enjoyed that.



Sometimes you can't save everyone. I am glad they went with their touted 'dark fantasy' rather than the 'heroic fantasy.'



Awakenings was full of shades of grey compared to DAO where you could play a paladin and suffer zero ill consequences.

[TheBlackBaron]

Noir201 wrote...
From what i've heard, a dev said that the next dlc will explain the reason, from what sounds like a quite frankly poor ending, as to what happens next, i don't know if its 100% true tho.

You wouldn't happen to have a link, would you?

[Noir201]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Noir201 wrote...
From what i've heard, a dev said that the next dlc will explain the reason, from what sounds like a quite frankly poor ending, as to what happens next, i don't know if its 100% true tho.

You wouldn't happen to have a link, would you?

I don't sorry, it's largely from some posters on forum, who from my time here, don't make stuff like that up, it's why i said i don't know if it's true or not. 

[TheBlackBaron]

Noir201 wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Noir201 wrote...
From what i've heard, a dev said that the next dlc will explain the reason, from what sounds like a quite frankly poor ending, as to what happens next, i don't know if its 100% true tho.

You wouldn't happen to have a link, would you?

I don't sorry, it's largely from some posters on forum, who from my time here, don't make stuff like that up, it's why i said i don't know if it's true or not. 

It's fine, I just like to be able to read stuff like that for myself.

[DeathWyrmNexus]

From what I saw... You need to leave a mage at the keep. I made a save to see if I could tweak the ending and take other people. Before the tweak, Anders, Oghren get an awesome ending, Justice is killed but that is what he wanted and he dies valiantly. Keep is considered legendary as are the Silver Knights and that soldier I gave mercy too.



Sigrun, Nate, Val went. Nate got an awesome ending. Val got a decent ending and Sigrun wandered off depressed because I sided with the Architect. Unforgiven then wandered off to seek out Morrigan, which I thought was a nice touch since it made it feel like he regretted not chasing her in Origins.



Still annoyed that Al doesn't make an appearance because I decided to think of him and made Anora queen... He could have helped out, dammit.



When I decided to take Anders and Val, TPK at the keep per my codex so I didn't bother finishing that redo to see what became of the keep.

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Vicious wrote...

They shot more for Dark Fantasy rather than Heroic Fantasy, I thought it was obvious. If you play your cards right the Keep never falls and you save most everyone. Your companions might die, but they knew the risks when they drank the blood.

I was a bit disappointed by the ending 'The Warden disappeared...' but I imagine one more expansion is on the way, or we will see The Warden in a sequel.


That said, I have to disagree with you on most counts. While some things i didn't enjoy [dialogue with companions was oddly presented and gifts make approval maxing trivial] but I felt Awakenings had a FAR greater sense of urgency than DAO did, and I greatly enjoyed that.

Sometimes you can't save everyone. I am glad they went with their touted 'dark fantasy' rather than the 'heroic fantasy.'

Awakenings was full of shades of grey compared to DAO where you could play a paladin and suffer zero ill consequences.

While I am one of those Perfectionist -tards who likes to save everybody, I do have to agree. Much greater sense of Urgency in Awakening. You definitely feel like you have to get **** done.