135 réponses à ce sujet

[MEUTRIERE]

I'm not unhappy with the 'disappearing' ending because I wanted a happy ending. I'm unhappy because it was so sudden and mysterious--not in a good way. If there were some explanation as to what happened, like my Warden heard her Calling or SOMETHING, I'd be fine but the whole "She vanished and was never seen again. Game over!" feeling to it just gave me no closure which bothers the hell out of me. Sure, it'd be great if she lived happily ever after and somehow managed a way to have lots of healthy future heirs with the King, but mostly I just want her story to have an actual ending.

Overall, it just doesn't make sense to me that she'd willingly and suddenly disappear with no explanation and no one--not even her husband--to go out searching for their Queen.

[Chasseresse]

Awakenings just made me start over with a whole new character in Origins so I could go through the "happy" stuff again before I took another exported character into the expansion and depressed myself further.



Count me as another person really upset at the "disappeared after a couple years" line. I just want some sort of an answer as to what that means. Is it a good disappearance, a bad disappearance, neither? Am I leaving all by myself? What about my lover, friends, comrades? I would think it would be too soon for the Warden to feel the Calling, but... ugh.

[errant_knight]

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...
While I am one of those Perfectionist -tards who likes to save everybody, I do have to agree. Much greater sense of Urgency in Awakening. You definitely feel like you have to get **** done.

I'm not saying that I didn't feel a sense of urgency, just that it seemed less personal. I accomplished my tasks, the keep didn't fall, Ameranthine was saved, things worked out relatively well for all the companions except Justice and, to a lesser extent, Sigrun (Velanna wasn't there, because I must have missed whatever dialogue might have made it possible to think that she wouldn't start killing people willy-nilly which didn't seem like a good thing to have happen with her as a grey warden), but it all feels kind of hollow, somehow....

Modifié par errant_knight, 21 mars 2010 - 10:15 .

[sylvanaerie]

Venatio wrote...

Efesell wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Was there actually any suicide in the first game?

Uh, as part of the main quest no less.

Right, killing the Archdemon - never did do that. I saw the funeral scene in youtube and it was so depressiingly anti-climatic. They just drag your corpse to Redcliffe and put it on a stone slab for everyone to see. They say a few nice words but thats it, that and its slated to be shipped to Weishaupt for buriel in some fancy tomb.

I was expecting something more, I dont know, cinematic?

Its even worse if you let Alistair take the final blow.  Instead of a funeral they have a freaking party and NO mention of him aside from a throwaway line from Wynne of "the poor boy".  Call YOU the hero when you didn't take the blow, HE did.  Boy that ending pissed me off.

[Efesell]

I don't really see anything wrong with the whole "disappeared" thing. Not like it does anything to all of my awesome accomplishments.

[errant_knight]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Venatio wrote...

Efesell wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Was there actually any suicide in the first game?

Uh, as part of the main quest no less.

Right, killing the Archdemon - never did do that. I saw the funeral scene in youtube and it was so depressiingly anti-climatic. They just drag your corpse to Redcliffe and put it on a stone slab for everyone to see. They say a few nice words but thats it, that and its slated to be shipped to Weishaupt for buriel in some fancy tomb.

I was expecting something more, I dont know, cinematic?

Its even worse if you let Alistair take the final blow.  Instead of a funeral they have a freaking party and NO mention of him aside from a throwaway line from Wynne of "the poor boy".  Call YOU the hero when you didn't take the blow, HE did.  Boy that ending pissed me off.

Heh, me too. That ending is just a giant middle finger to Alistair, all his so-called friends having a big party....

[sylvanaerie]

I haven't reached the ending in Awakenings and getting more and more to dread it. I don't like dark fantasy, Origins at least allowed some of your choices to end well. I get the feeling nothing you do in Awakenings is going to help much from what I am reading on the forums

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 21 mars 2010 - 10:24 .

[TheBlackBaron]

Efesell wrote...

I don't really see anything wrong with the whole "disappeared" thing. Not like it does anything to all of my awesome accomplishments.

It pretty much tosses the Alistair fangirls into the same boat we Morrigan fans have been chilling in since the end of Origins.

Sure, the accomplishments and my reputation as a pragmatic Warden-Commander are intact (insert your own reputation as you see fit), but it's still far too open ended and more than a little depressing for that to be the end of that.

Fortunately it's far too early for FemCouslands to be facing the Calling, so at least she's not dead yet.

Probably.

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 21 mars 2010 - 10:42 .

[Efesell]

Hell my Warden was married to Alistair too.



I guess I'm just more accepting of the open ended conclusions.

[_- Songlian -]

Sarah1281 wrote...
But yeah, all the people committing suicide left and right in side quests was kind of disturbing.

I found the suicides a tad disturbing as well. Everywhere you turned your head, there was someone hanging from a rope. Creepy. 

Other than that, I didn't find the main story too dark. It was darker than Origins, indeed, but I liked it from start to finish. I fought in Amaranthine, but everyone in Vigil's Keep survived, with only Velanna missing afterwards. Anders remained in the Order, Nathaniel Howe befriended Fergus Cousland, Justice got the ending he always desired and I killed the creepiest creature to be called "mother". The Architect is out there and he is searching a cure to end all Blights. 

I consider that  a good enough ending. 

Modifié par - Songlian -, 21 mars 2010 - 11:18 .

[Stoomkal]

errant_knight wrote...

Just finished my first playthrough and, boy, do I ever have a bad taste in my mouth. Over all, I enjoyed it up until the end with only a couple of qualms (ignoring the new dialogue system which didn't work for me at all, but is a separate issue, I think). There were too many 'fetch 'x' number of 'y' quests, and I found some of the side quests pointlessly bleak (Corin's proposal, the man who couldn't buy the house).

I should have paid attention to those, however, because they were a sign of where this was going. It was a big sign that said 'don't expect fun. This is going to end badly.'  They were quests where there was no win, and there was no win in Awakening as a whole. It didn't have the fun of Origins at all. That was probably the point, to take it darker. It was certainly dark. Way too dark for me. I find myself wishing I'd stopped with Origins. It ruined my happy ending. It's possible that I just made all the wrong choices, but somehow, I suspect the ending is bleak no matter what you do.

Not as disappointing as the last line of the epilogue though. My PC goes back to court only to disappear in a couple of years? Shades of KOTOR. I didn't like that then, and I like it even less now. I might feel differently about it if there'd been any mention of the companions going after him/her, but nope. Nothing.

Dark fantasy treads a fine line. I though Origins did that pretty well. It allowed for people to go well off the heroic track if they wished, but also allowed those who don't find that appealing to deal with difficult choices, but still feel like they'd achieved a victory, both for themselves, and their companions. Here? Not so much.

...

I agree completely.

There were some areas were the storytelling was simply *abominable*. The whole thing seemed terribly, terribly rushed. Instead of actually "setting the scene" they gave virtual expostition everytime there was a need for dialogue - It was a childish step back for a developer known for their writing.

The section of Whithered/Alistair/Joining is a case in point. So rushed, so flat.

My main gripe, though, is about "David Gaider's Fantabulous New Dialogue System"... just fail. I have never felt so distant from characters in a Bioware game. There is simply no ability to go up and talk to your new found friend and actually ask them "Who are you? Where do you come from?".

Clicking on a random artifact simply engages "banter" there is no real way of talking about important things with a character. Even Sten seemed to intimate his personaliyt, but here, I have no access to any of these people. They are simply stats - and dialogue prompts have become nothing more than "point buying" approval. There is no need to talk to them because you want to learn about them.

In Origins, you only learnt a characters real history and stories by putting in the effort to talk and learn - here there is nothing to learn and no option to do it anyway!

Ugh...

And the um... "ending"... yeah...

"He woke up and it was all a dream..."

Go take a holiday, team DA, you forgot something... 

[errant_knight]

Stoomkal wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Just finished my first playthrough and, boy, do I ever have a bad taste in my mouth. Over all, I enjoyed it up until the end with only a couple of qualms (ignoring the new dialogue system which didn't work for me at all, but is a separate issue, I think). There were too many 'fetch 'x' number of 'y' quests, and I found some of the side quests pointlessly bleak (Corin's proposal, the man who couldn't buy the house).

I should have paid attention to those, however, because they were a sign of where this was going. It was a big sign that said 'don't expect fun. This is going to end badly.'  They were quests where there was no win, and there was no win in Awakening as a whole. It didn't have the fun of Origins at all. That was probably the point, to take it darker. It was certainly dark. Way too dark for me. I find myself wishing I'd stopped with Origins. It ruined my happy ending. It's possible that I just made all the wrong choices, but somehow, I suspect the ending is bleak no matter what you do.

Not as disappointing as the last line of the epilogue though. My PC goes back to court only to disappear in a couple of years? Shades of KOTOR. I didn't like that then, and I like it even less now. I might feel differently about it if there'd been any mention of the companions going after him/her, but nope. Nothing.

Dark fantasy treads a fine line. I though Origins did that pretty well. It allowed for people to go well off the heroic track if they wished, but also allowed those who don't find that appealing to deal with difficult choices, but still feel like they'd achieved a victory, both for themselves, and their companions. Here? Not so much.

...

I agree completely.

There were some areas were the storytelling was simply *abominable*. The whole thing seemed terribly, terribly rushed. Instead of actually "setting the scene" they gave virtual expostition everytime there was a need for dialogue - It was a childish step back for a developer known for their writing.

The section of Whithered/Alistair/Joining is a case in point. So rushed, so flat.

My main gripe, though, is about "David Gaider's Fantabulous New Dialogue System"... just fail. I have never felt so distant from characters in a Bioware game. There is simply no ability to go up and talk to your new found friend and actually ask them "Who are you? Where do you come from?".

Clicking on a random artifact simply engages "banter" there is no real way of talking about important things with a character. Even Sten seemed to intimate his personaliyt, but here, I have no access to any of these people. They are simply stats - and dialogue prompts have become nothing more than "point buying" approval. There is no need to talk to them because you want to learn about them.

In Origins, you only learnt a characters real history and stories by putting in the effort to talk and learn - here there is nothing to learn and no option to do it anyway!

Ugh...

And the um... "ending"... yeah...

"He woke up and it was all a dream..."

Go take a holiday, team DA, you forgot something... 

Exactly! And it was made worse by the fact that when you did click on them accidently, they got snippy about it! Of course, that made it even weirder when Justice actually did talk to me once when I clicked on him in the Keep.

[Efesell]

Eh, thought the characters and dialogue were fine.



Even though Anders is just Alistair in robes.

[errant_knight]

Efesell wrote...

Eh, thought the characters and dialogue were fine.

Even though Anders is just Alistair in robes.

Really? I thought they were exceedingly different. Nathaniel had more in common with Alistair, although they are clearly different, as well. But that's another thread....

[Marso40]

Well, on the one hand we have people up in arms because of that one pesky little slide that says your warden 'vanishes'



On the other hand we have people up in arms because Morrigan is out there somewhere with a god-child you were responsible for (by choice, if not the act itself), and that hasn't been resolved...yet.



Anyone see where I'm going here?



And if you want the story of your warden to continue, they can't really tell you what happens after you give up being commander of the grey (or court) and vanishing. Why? Because they cannot predict your choices for a game that they haven't scripted yet!! Jeez!



While I agree with some of the criticisms (speech system, withered-royal cameo-joining being rushed beyond belief, characters not as rich as the original, etc) I really enjoyed the expansion. I've done two full playthrough and plan on doing several more to explore all the options.

[TheBlackBaron]

errant_knight wrote...

Efesell wrote...

Eh, thought the characters and dialogue were fine.

Even though Anders is just Alistair in robes.

Really? I thought they were exceedingly different. Nathaniel had more in common with Alistair, although they are clearly different, as well. But that's another thread....

Nah. They've got the same snarky attitude, occasional goofyness, sandy-blonde hair. One begins to suspect Anders is also an illegitimate son of Maric and that Calenhand must have been somewhat of a dork.

[Efesell]

My only real issue(s) with this expansion are the bugs.



Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll be fixed by the time I get a few more Origins characters done.

[errant_knight]

Marso40 wrote...

[...]
While I agree with some of the criticisms (speech system, withered-royal cameo-joining being rushed beyond belief, characters not as rich as the original, etc) I really enjoyed the expansion. I've done two full playthrough and plan on doing several more to explore all the options.

See, that's the thing, I played Origins five times in a row without even taking a day or two off between startups, and I really can't say that I feel the need to play Awakening again. The story elements that I found interesting (Architect, Urtha, Broodmother, the nature of the darkspawn, dealings with the companions from both Awakening and Origins) were barely touched on, and a lot of the rest was a matter of accumulating goods or pretty depressing. The difference between the two is fairly vast.

[Efesell]

Also I was a really, really big fan of serving as the Arl/Commander of the Grey.



Just felt good.

[Stoomkal]

Marso40 wrote...

While I agree with some of the criticisms (speech system, withered-royal cameo-joining being rushed beyond belief, characters not as rich as the original, etc) I really enjoyed the expansion. I've done two full playthrough and plan on doing several more to explore all the options.

...

Well, no one is complaining or whining about a lack of Alistair or Morrigan, errant_knight is the wrong "chick" for that...

We are making some very valid criticisms, I think.

Plus, your defense seems to be "I can see all the gaping flaws... but I like it".

Not much of a defense - but wait until David gets here... then it will get snarky... 

[errant_knight]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Efesell wrote...

Eh, thought the characters and dialogue were fine.

Even though Anders is just Alistair in robes.

Really? I thought they were exceedingly different. Nathaniel had more in common with Alistair, although they are clearly different, as well. But that's another thread....

Nah. They've got the same snarky attitude, occasional goofyness, sandy-blonde hair. One begins to suspect Anders is also an illegitimate son of Maric and that Calenhand must have been somewhat of a dork.

Except that one of them is driven by duty and a desire to help people even at the expense of his own well being while the other is primarily concerned with himself and pragmatic enough to make deals with the likes of the Baroness. They really couldn't be more different. There's a lot more to personality than hair color and a penchant for sarcasm.

[SurelyForth]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Efesell wrote...

Eh, thought the characters and dialogue were fine.

Even though Anders is just Alistair in robes.

Really? I thought they were exceedingly different. Nathaniel had more in common with Alistair, although they are clearly different, as well. But that's another thread....

Nah. They've got the same snarky attitude, occasional goofyness, sandy-blonde hair. One begins to suspect Anders is also an illegitimate son of Maric and that Calenhand must have been somewhat of a dork.

I think it even goes deeper than that...but this isn't really the place to discuss it.

I agree with you on many counts, errant_knight. There is a definite sense of "what did I actually accomplish here?" and then that epilogue...brrrr. I found the fighting and the maps fun, most of the companions were well-conceived and potentially interesting, but there was nothing personal about this game at all. When I was adventuring, I would listen to my companions talking amongst themselves and feel completely out of the loop. I liked some of them a lot (Anders ) but, in the end, it all felt very hollow, like this was just something I needed to get over with before my PC could move on with her life (until her mysterious disappearance, that is).

[Stoomkal]

Well said, Surelyforth... I have the same feeling.



*sad face*...

[errant_knight]

I don't want to give the impression that there weren't things I really liked about it. The new companions have a lot of potential, those that survived anyway. I wish Justice had been able to be around longer, but given that he was, er, dead, I can see how that wouldn't work out too well. I ended up liking Nathaniel a great deal, which was an enormous surprise. I liked Anders, but seriously wished I could give him a smack upside the head,sometimes, although the epilogue would seem to indicate that he wasn't as self-centered as he often seemed.

A lot of the new locations looked great, were a lot of fun to explore, and had some great battles. Capture by the Architect was more than a little disturbing. I was very worried that we were going to turn into something horrible. There were many things to like, but I thought they were undercut by other elements that we've discussed here.

Stoomkal wrote...

Marso40 wrote...

While I agree with some of the criticisms (speech system, withered-royal cameo-joining being rushed beyond belief, characters not as rich as the original, etc) I really enjoyed the expansion. I've done two full playthrough and plan on doing several more to explore all the options.

...

Well, no one is complaining or whining about a lack of Alistair or Morrigan, errant_knight is the wrong "chick" for that...

We are making some very valid criticisms, I think.

Plus, your defense seems to be "I can see all the gaping flaws... but I like it".

Not much of a defense - but wait until David gets here... then it will get snarky... 

Thanks, Stoomkal. I think.

Modifié par errant_knight, 22 mars 2010 - 12:19 .

[casedawgz]

I bet the disappearance has something to do with Morrigan. She sends your pc a message, leading into the second xpac. You heard it here first, folks.