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[Sleepicub09]

The Angry One wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Eh you know what? Give me Ash/Kai, Liara and Wrex back and I'll be happy without the ME2 band of misfits, psychos, criminals and terrorists.
Plus the inevitable flood of tears from the Taliban will be epic. EPIC.

<_< I understand your reason for not having faith, but was that called for?

Do you deny that there will be a ragefit of epic proportions? Really? Do you?

No, but it just be whole bunch of posters complaining about how their cancelling their pre-orders. 

[The Angry One]

apotheosic wrote...

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

I cling to the fact that it'd be weak narrative to discard a team of "the best in the galaxy" before saving the universe, and they'd be dumb to think they had anything more important to do.

same. plus if they throw out ME2's squad they'd essentially be throwing out all the work that they put into ME2, since 80% of the game is finding squadmates and getting to know them. take out all the squad member specific missions and you are left with a very bare-bones story that accomplishes rather little. just dumping that whole squad would be much more wasteful than writing dialogue that some players might not see.

The game is spent getting squad members FOR THE SUICIDE MISSION.
You then become their personal therapist and solve all their problems FOR THE SUICIDE MISSION.
That's the only reason they're gathered, and the only reason you do anything in ME2 at all.

And for people who say that we spent the whole game gathering allies so we wouldn't do it again... in ME1, your entire squad minus 1 is assembled before you leave the Citadel, and Liara comes soon after (or not if you really don't like her or something).
Point is they can do that again in ME3, give you a squad and send you off on missions to do other things.

[BatarianBob]

Eternz wrote...
I don't know how they can have the resources to add new story lines or give them significant story roles simply because of the variety of surviving members among the player base. It would all be wasted for people without those characters.

It would be wasted for people who only played the game once.

I think you're overestimating the number and importance of that group.

[Kaiser Shepard]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Eh you know what? Give me Ash/Kai, Liara and Wrex back and I'll be happy without the ME2 band of misfits, psychos, criminals and terrorists.
Plus the inevitable flood of tears from the Taliban will be epic. EPIC.

<_< I understand your reason for not having faith, but was that called for?

Do you deny that there will be a ragefit of epic proportions? Really? Do you?

Is that what you would like to see The Angry One?

It's what everyone who doesn't obsessively loves Tali wants to see.

[Jackal904]

Ya the amount of anger that will spew on the forums if any ME2 squadmate is reduced to a cameo will be insane. I don't think BioWare would dig themself a hole that they could not get out of. I have faith, but I also have my concerns. If worse comes to worst BioWare should just reduce all the non-romanceable characters to cameos.

[The Angry One]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Sleepicub09 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Eh you know what? Give me Ash/Kai, Liara and Wrex back and I'll be happy without the ME2 band of misfits, psychos, criminals and terrorists.
Plus the inevitable flood of tears from the Taliban will be epic. EPIC.

<_< I understand your reason for not having faith, but was that called for?

Do you deny that there will be a ragefit of epic proportions? Really? Do you?

Is that what you would like to see The Angry One?

I don't think even BioWare is prepared for the sheer inertia of an all out Tali attack.
It'd be a sight!

[poisonoustea]

I find your lack of faith... disturbing.

[The Angry One]

Jackal904 wrote...

Ya the amount of anger that will spew on the forums if any ME2 squadmate is reduced to a cameo will be insane. I don't think BioWare would dig themself a hole that they could not get out of. I have faith, but I also have my concerns. If worse comes to worst BioWare should just reduce all the non-romanceable characters to cameos.

The problem is a lot of us don't see how, given the restraints of development time, they're going to handle all these variables on top of developing ME3.
The quickest and most obvious solution, given the evidence of what transferred to ME2 is for the ME2 squadmates to get brief cameos or even just.. *through teeth* e-mails.
Maybe we're wrong and BioWare will pull off some spectacular carryover but.. I don't see it.

[Sleepicub09]

The Angry One wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

Ya the amount of anger that will spew on the forums if any ME2 squadmate is reduced to a cameo will be insane. I don't think BioWare would dig themself a hole that they could not get out of. I have faith, but I also have my concerns. If worse comes to worst BioWare should just reduce all the non-romanceable characters to cameos.

The problem is a lot of us don't see how, given the restraints of development time, they're going to handle all these variables on top of developing ME3.
The quickest and most obvious solution, given the evidence of what transferred to ME2 is for the ME2 squadmates to get brief cameos or even just.. *through teeth* e-mails.
Maybe we're wrong and BioWare will pull off some spectacular carryover but.. I don't see it.

I say just wait and see.

[Ray Joel Oh]

The Angry One wrote...

The game is spent getting squad members FOR THE SUICIDE MISSION.
You then become their personal therapist and solve all their problems FOR THE SUICIDE MISSION.
That's the only reason they're gathered, and the only reason you do anything in ME2 at all.

And for people who say that we spent the whole game gathering allies so we wouldn't do it again... in ME1, your entire squad minus 1 is assembled before you leave the Citadel, and Liara comes soon after (or not if you really don't like her or something).
Point is they can do that again in ME3, give you a squad and send you off on missions to do other things.

Sure they can.  And it would probably simplify things.  But it's still weak narrative.
The only reason why they can justify cameo-ing so many of your former squadmates from ME1 in ME2 is because you've been dead for two years and are working for a terrorist organization.  But if most or all of your ME1 squadmates don't come back, ready to do whatever they can to avoid the looming apocalypse, it'd just be silly.  Same goes for ME2 squadmates.

[apotheosic]

The Angry One wrote...

apotheosic wrote...

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

I cling to the fact that it'd be weak narrative to discard a team of "the best in the galaxy" before saving the universe, and they'd be dumb to think they had anything more important to do.

same. plus if they throw out ME2's squad they'd essentially be throwing out all the work that they put into ME2, since 80% of the game is finding squadmates and getting to know them. take out all the squad member specific missions and you are left with a very bare-bones story that accomplishes rather little. just dumping that whole squad would be much more wasteful than writing dialogue that some players might not see.

The game is spent getting squad members FOR THE SUICIDE MISSION.
You then become their personal therapist and solve all their problems FOR THE SUICIDE MISSION.
That's the only reason they're gathered, and the only reason you do anything in ME2 at all.

ah yes "the suicide mission," a mission with supposedly abysmal chance of survival. We have dismissed these claims.
i'm sorry, but you have to be thick in the head or actively trying for it to lose more than a person or two on the suicide mission. the fact that it was purposed towards the suicide mission does not change the fact that 80% of the game was spent in character develoment.

[The Angry One]

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

Sure they can.  And it would probably simplify things.  But it's still weak narrative.

Of course it is. I don't think anybody's arguing this from a narrative standpoint, merely from development limitations.
If they do it the way I describe it'll be a cheap copout and I'll damn well say so but.. I'm not sure it's feasable the way players in general want it.

[Eternz]

The Angry One wrote...

Jackal904 wrote...

Ya the amount of anger that will spew on the forums if any ME2 squadmate is reduced to a cameo will be insane. I don't think BioWare would dig themself a hole that they could not get out of. I have faith, but I also have my concerns. If worse comes to worst BioWare should just reduce all the non-romanceable characters to cameos.

The problem is a lot of us don't see how, given the restraints of development time, they're going to handle all these variables on top of developing ME3.
The quickest and most obvious solution, given the evidence of what transferred to ME2 is for the ME2 squadmates to get brief cameos or even just.. *through teeth* e-mails.
Maybe we're wrong and BioWare will pull off some spectacular carryover but.. I don't see it.

This is the point im trying to get across, im not hating Me2 characters, or being mr negative, i'm just facing the fact of games development and resources. No studio would create a lot of content that a potential number of the player base could not see, so you can imagine if a number of the ME2 characters play a significant story role in ME3, would just throw a spanner in the works.

Biowares only option is to lessen their roles or double development time and cost.

Modifié par Eternz, 21 mars 2010 - 11:06 .

[Knoll Argonar]

It's possible to let some of those characters have important roles in the game.



Create a main plot structure with different missions involving different species and situations, like the Geth, the Krogan, the Quarians, etc. that will stay unaltered no matter what.



Then, limit Shepards power of decision and ability to choose whatever outcome you want for those missions depending on which character you have in your crew. Example: if you kill Tali, you'll be able to do Quarian's mission anyway, but that doesn't mean that if the admiralty board has a decision to make, they'll listen to you regardless you have Tali with you or not. The outcome of that mission will be restricted to you.



If you have Tali, however, the same mission will happen, but in the end, the admiralty board will LISTEN to you (or Tali) and then more possible outcomes will be opened to you. Since there won't be a ME4, they don't have to care about the consequences of that decisions.



So, for those that say "oh, but I'll need ME2 with an alive Tali to do that", I say: well, then you just have to make sure that Default Shepard in ME3 has almost every important character alive and with you.



Obviously, to wait for every character to be important is to idealistic. Jack's not important for the main plot, same with Jacob, for example. But there are structures that allow characters to play important roles within the main plot perfectly.

[Mcjon01]

I don't see it being particularly hard to keep the same team, though. Just design the game as if everybody had survived, and just restrict access to content based on who's alive or dead. I mean, all they have to do is cut out character interaction completely except for on the ship, where all characters are completely unaware of each other anyway. They're, like, 9/10ths of the way to having perfectly modular characters already, they just need to take that last step!

[RikRikRik]

Eternz wrote...

Mass Effect 1 had 5 characters to bring over to ME 2, so no wasted resources in any content involving them, which wasn't much at all for the ones who weren't squad members.

Now, with the list of dead or alive team members Bioware have to incorporate into ME3 there is just no way characters like Tali, Garrus or any of the others minus Miranda can have any significant roles, or be actual team members. I don't know how they can have the resources to add new story lines or give them significant story roles simply because of the variety of surviving members among the player base. It would all be wasted for people without those characters.

why minus miranda she can be killed in the suicide mission as well

[ramdog7]

this is pure bull**** it been only a mouth and some weeks.

i really hate speculation threads.

[Suron]

Eternz wrote...

Mass Effect 1 had 5 characters to bring over to ME 2, so no wasted resources in any content involving them, which wasn't much at all for the ones who weren't squad members.

Now, with the list of dead or alive team members Bioware have to incorporate into ME3 there is just no way characters like Tali, Garrus or any of the others minus Miranda can have any significant roles, or be actual team members. I don't know how they can have the resources to add new story lines or give them significant story roles simply because of the variety of surviving members among the player base. It would all be wasted for people without those characters.

Now also add in if those characters having interactions with each other, so that should also go out the window. I guess it would be like the variety of ways the choices and side quests can be done in ME1 but they are hundreds of times less of an issue then fully blown characters. Unfortunately i can't see any other way then giving the ME2 characters cameos, i don't blame Bioware for this (minus getting themselves into it) because to me it seems like an impossible situation.

except in ME1 you didn't have to take Tali with you or Garrus..Tali gave you the data..but you have an option to not take her...so that being the case..with your logic..they shouldn't have had roles in ME2

[Knoll Argonar]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

@Knoll Argonar
Well you ready to go at it again?

It's not my fault that every time I log in in this forum, a NEW thread appears with the same topic.

.... I should save one of my coments and copy/paste them every time, right? xD

[Eternz]

RikRikRik wrote...

Eternz wrote...

Mass Effect 1 had 5 characters to bring over to ME 2, so no wasted resources in any content involving them, which wasn't much at all for the ones who weren't squad members.

Now, with the list of dead or alive team members Bioware have to incorporate into ME3 there is just no way characters like Tali, Garrus or any of the others minus Miranda can have any significant roles, or be actual team members. I don't know how they can have the resources to add new story lines or give them significant story roles simply because of the variety of surviving members among the player base. It would all be wasted for people without those characters.

why minus miranda she can be killed in the suicide mission as well

It's just purely speculation on the forums etc since people have killed her, only to have her re-appear later on like nothing ever happened, and her notoriously stubborn habit of being quite hard to kill during the mission.