379 réponses à ce sujet

[Skilled Seeker]

Collider wrote...

We have never had a world government, Homey, neither have all instances of slavery been integral to the corresponding culture. The Batarian government however is, referred to as "the" Batarian government, implying that the Batarians have world government. There have been plenty of cultures that did not develop slavery or have it in any significant way.

So would you kill a batarian child in cold blood? Did that batarian choose to be born as a batarian? And do you really think the police state government the batarians have will allow people to express opinions that clash with that of the state? Its like saying all germans during Hitler's reign were evil scum that deserved to die because their government does immoral things.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 10 avril 2010 - 08:43 .

[GodWood]

Technically we have more people as slaves today then what we did when slavery wasn't "abolished".

[kyle-mac]

after i posted my initial thoughts, i read some other posts and there some good points, so my new opinion is: no. batarians suck. only good batarian is a dead one. from my character's point of view.



i do think think it could be interesting to have a batarian character that you have some relations with and explore them on a more personal. it would be interesting if, in me3, it was a possibility that the batarians joined the fight against the reapers near the end of the game. i think that if we got a batarian squad member, even if they're a nice batarian, the prejudices and societal conflicts should be addressed and a constant issue with them.



they are featured pretty heavily in the first ME book and actually do have an interesting culture.



the thing that puts us at odds with them the most is that both they and humans are relatively new in the galactic community and when we started settling in a territory that they considered to be theirs for the taking, they took it before the council, who decided to do nothing about it. because of that, they left the citadel and declared themselves pretty much independent from the rest of the council races and basically declared an unofficial war on humanity. they don't like us. they feel slighted as a species and feel that we are their direct rivals and are faring better than they are. yeah, there are extremists, like in any other culture, that try to blow up our colonies, but the batarian government, as a policy, pretty much endorses anything that someone can come up with to deter human interests. it's understandable from their perspective. and it makes it difficult for us to like them.



as for mercenary groups in which batarians and humans work side-by-side, who's to say they actually like doing so? they're both considered rogues and are just in it for danger and money.



but, no. i'm sure not every batarian is "bad." although, i do find it interesting that in the ME universe, it is specifically pointed out that humans are unique in how diverse their culture and personalities are, where in other species they are pretty specific in what the standard life will hold for an individual and what customs and beliefs they are supposed to subscribe to. ME2, specifically, seemed to find the outcasts of each species and make a point of saying how they feel they are deviants within their society. Garrus feels that he is not a very good turian because he doesn't like taking orders and wants to stand out from the rest of his very structured species. The bartender on illium is a matriarch that no one listens to or respects. Grunt is considered an abomination by some of his own people.



BioWare has made an effort to distinguish each species from each other species and batarians are the galaxy's terrorists. at least, for now.

[Homey C-Dawg]

Collider wrote...

We have never had a world government, Homey, neither have all instances of slavery been integral to the corresponding culture. The Batarian government however is, referred to as "the" Batarian government, implying that the Batarians have world government. There have been plenty of cultures that did not develop slavery or have it in any significant way.

True, but as you mentioned, these are fictional aliens. I'm just saying that every batarian I've met, jerk or civil, has been something of a reflection of the negative aspects of humanity, taken from our own history. I get the impression that batarians are a very government regulated society, like a N4ZI world government. I doubt batarian government officials are "elected".

Modifié par Homey C-Dawg, 10 avril 2010 - 08:49 .

[chucktheduck]

No. He'd probably just shoot Shepard in the back.

[Homey C-Dawg]

chucktheduck wrote...

No. He'd probably just shoot Shepard in the back.

If there was a batarian squad member, I could totally see a Wrex/Shepard situation where you have to shoot him or paragon/renegade you way through it.

[Collider]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

Collider wrote...

We have never had a world government, Homey, neither have all instances of slavery been integral to the corresponding culture. The Batarian government however is, referred to as "the" Batarian government, implying that the Batarians have world government. There have been plenty of cultures that did not develop slavery or have it in any significant way.

True, but as you mentioned, these are fictional aliens. I'm just saying that every batarian I've met, jerk or civil, has been something of a reflection of the negative aspects of humanity, taken from our own history.

Of course it has. The writers are humans. They all have human traits, this is so we can empathize and in some cases hate them. Something impersonal like a keeper cannot garner much hate or love.

[Homey C-Dawg]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

Eag07 wrote...

If we get a batarian squadmate I will certainly give him a chance, treat him as any other squadmember. It could give us a chance to learn more about Batarians, I don't think they should be all judged based on the few bad examples we've met so far. However the whole thing with slavery being an integral part of their culture doesn't exactly leave the best first impression. I'd certainly tread carefully...

Don't forget that slavery has been an integral part of human culture for most of our history. It seems that batarians were never able to break out of their caste system like we have (or are in the process of) since slavery seems sooooo important to them. Think of it like humans with 22nd century technology but still working off of 5th century morality.

5th century? I think you mean 19th century. Humans are quick to cover up their dark history. Bunch of hypocrites.

Apparently I don't have the disdain for my species that you do. To each their own I suppose. 

[GodWood]

kyle-mac wrote...

the thing that puts us at odds with them the most is that both they and humans are relatively new in the galactic community .

I feel the need to correct this...

• 200 BC -  Batarians post an embassy, a century or more after first contact.
• 2165 AD - Humans granted an embassy, 12 years after first contact.

• 2171 Batarians close relations from the Citadel.
~ Batarian length of time as part of the galactic community: 2371 years.
~ Humanity's length of time as part of the galactic community: 6 years.

kyle-mac wrote...
 i do find it interesting that in the ME universe, it is specifically pointed out that humans are unique in how diverse their culture and personalities are, where in other species they are pretty specific in what the standard life will hold for an individual and what customs and beliefs they are supposed to subscribe to.

I should point out this is incorrect also, the game was talking about genetic diversity not cultural.

Modifié par GodWood, 10 avril 2010 - 09:15 .

[Collider]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Collider wrote...

We have never had a world government, Homey, neither have all instances of slavery been integral to the corresponding culture. The Batarian government however is, referred to as "the" Batarian government, implying that the Batarians have world government. There have been plenty of cultures that did not develop slavery or have it in any significant way.

So would you kill a batarian child in cold blood?

Uh, no. I never made any indication of that.

Did that batarian choose to be born as a batarian? And do you really think the police state government the batarians have will allow people to express opinions that clash with that of the state? Its like saying all germans during Hitler's reign were evil scum that deserved to die because their government does immoral things.

Wtf? Read my post more carefully. I never suggested any of this.

[xI extremist Ix]

It will probably be a Batarian who is a criminal to it's government, and is looking for payback on them. The character would be against slavery, if said race is allowed to be recruited.

[Shepard needs a Vacation]

yes

[Skilled Seeker]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

Eag07 wrote...

If we get a batarian squadmate I will certainly give him a chance, treat him as any other squadmember. It could give us a chance to learn more about Batarians, I don't think they should be all judged based on the few bad examples we've met so far. However the whole thing with slavery being an integral part of their culture doesn't exactly leave the best first impression. I'd certainly tread carefully...

Don't forget that slavery has been an integral part of human culture for most of our history. It seems that batarians were never able to break out of their caste system like we have (or are in the process of) since slavery seems sooooo important to them. Think of it like humans with 22nd century technology but still working off of 5th century morality.

5th century? I think you mean 19th century. Humans are quick to cover up their dark history. Bunch of hypocrites.

Apparently I don't have the disdain for my species that you do. To each their own I suppose. 

I'm stating facts, slavery was perfectly legal in the 19th century. And who says I'm human?

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 10 avril 2010 - 09:22 .

[Skilled Seeker]

Collider wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Collider wrote...

We have never had a world government, Homey, neither have all instances of slavery been integral to the corresponding culture. The Batarian government however is, referred to as "the" Batarian government, implying that the Batarians have world government. There have been plenty of cultures that did not develop slavery or have it in any significant way.

So would you kill a batarian child in cold blood?

Uh, no. I never made any indication of that.

Did that batarian choose to be born as a batarian? And do you really think the police state government the batarians have will allow people to express opinions that clash with that of the state? Its like saying all germans during Hitler's reign were evil scum that deserved to die because their government does immoral things.

Wtf? Read my post more carefully. I never suggested any of this.

Looking back over my post and your reaction I had a good laugh. Sorry you are right my post wasn't really aimed at you but at those who were saying only good batarian is a dead batarian, I will put a bullet in his skull etc.

[Homey C-Dawg]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

Apparently I don't have the disdain for my species that you do. To each their own I suppose. 

I'm stating facts, slavery was perfectly legal in the 19th century. And who says I'm human?

I sense you are telling the truth on both counts. (jk)

Modifié par Homey C-Dawg, 10 avril 2010 - 09:26 .

[kyle-mac]

GodWood wrote...

kyle-mac wrote...
the thing that puts us at odds with them the most is that both they and humans are relatively new in the galactic community .

I feel the need to correct this...
• 200 BC -  Batarians post an embassy, a century or more after first contact.
• 2165 AD - Humans granted an embassy, 12 years after first contact.
• 2171 Batarians close relations from the Citadel.
~ Batarian length of time as part of the galactic community: 2371 years.
~ Humanity's length of time as part of the galactic community: 6 years.

My mistake. I didn't have the exact dates and thought it was a bit less than that.

Would you agree with the rest of what i said, though? i'd like to think that the one quoted, inaccurate statement doesn't negate the rest of my post. it's not just a stereotype put onto batarians, but the history between them and humans provides a believeable and understandable general ongoing conflict between the two species. there could, of course, be some exceptions, as there always are.

Here is the history of the human/batarian relationship found on the Mass Effect wiki, which i find to be pretty accurate according to what i've read in the game and books:

In the early 2160s, humans began to colonize the Skyllian Verge, a region the batarians were already actively  settling. The batarians asked the Citadel Council to intervene and declare the Verge an area of "batarian interest". When the Council refused, the batarians closed their Citadel embassy and severed diplomatic and economic relations, becoming an inward-looking rogue state. Money and weapons funneled from the batarian government to
criminal organizations led to many brutal raids on human colonies in the Verge, culminating in the Skyllian Blitz of 2176, an attack on the human capital of Elysium by batarian-funded pirates and slavers. In 2178, the Alliance
retaliated with a crushing assault on the moon of Torfan, long used as a staging base by batarian-backed criminals. In the aftermath, the batarians retreated into their own systems, and are now rarely seen in Citadel space.

Modifié par kyle-mac, 10 avril 2010 - 09:28 .

[Cornelian]

Yes, if Shepard could kill him instead of recruit him.

[AventuroLegendary]

how would you feel if you were born a batarian and ousted from every job because of your race? you have to view both sides. The humans are no better than the batarians anyway.
 
Let's see: Humans have founded the most supremacist organizations, the alliance has used several imperialistic methods and aliens are barely aloud on earth.
Too add, before the descovery of alien races, humans have done many genocides and mass killings within there race.
Humans are hypocrites like skilled seeker said and continue to mistrust every alien race out there. This reminds me: How would that admiral mikhailovic respond if you had a batarian on your team?

Modifié par LegendaryAvenger, 10 avril 2010 - 10:04 .

[AventuroLegendary]

[quote]kyle-mac wrote...

[quote]GodWood wrote...
[quote]kyle-mac wrote...
the thing that puts us at odds with them the most is that both they and humans are relatively new in the galactic community .[/quote]
I feel the need to correct this...
• 200 BC -  Batarians post an embassy, a century or more after first contact.
• 2165 AD - Humans granted an embassy, 12 years after first contact.
• 2171 Batarians close relations from the Citadel.
~ Batarian length of time as part of the galactic community: 2371 years.
~ Humanity's length of time as part of the galactic community: 6 years.

[/quote]
200 BC?! what was humanity doing during that time...

[HeyBlade789]

It would have to nivolve tense conversation which would be realy good, taking either the paragon route, becoming a friend or renegade, just berating him constantly

[finnithe]

I wouldn't be able to take him on missions because my squad would just shoot him, so no.

Actually it would be ok to have one if he could die in some terrible way. Like liquefing to death.

Modifié par finnithe, 11 avril 2010 - 09:48 .

[thompsonaf]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

Eag07 wrote...

If we get a batarian squadmate I will certainly give him a chance, treat him as any other squadmember. It could give us a chance to learn more about Batarians, I don't think they should be all judged based on the few bad examples we've met so far. However the whole thing with slavery being an integral part of their culture doesn't exactly leave the best first impression. I'd certainly tread carefully...

Don't forget that slavery has been an integral part of human culture for most of our history. It seems that batarians were never able to break out of their caste system like we have (or are in the process of) since slavery seems sooooo important to them. Think of it like humans with 22nd century technology but still working off of 5th century morality.

I fail to see how this makes slavery any less evil. "Oh we've always slaughtered colonies and took slaves, must be ok then." Everyone has a choice, the Batarians choose slavery and terrorism.

[Skilled Seeker]

Hate on their government and the pirates and slavers but not on them all as a race. Wishing death upon any batarian you meet makes you just as bad as them. No wonder so many batarians hate humans.

[killingsheep24]

No.