97 réponses à ce sujet

[Pen-N-Paper]

jsachun wrote...

It is an expansion.

Define please.

[jsachun]

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

jsachun wrote...

It is an expansion.

Define please.

It expands the gameplay.

[Pen-N-Paper]

jsachun wrote...

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

jsachun wrote...

It is an expansion.

Define please.

It expands the gameplay.

How?  Make it longer but with less previous game access?
Try not to use the word expand in the definition, please.

[jsachun]

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

jsachun wrote...

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

jsachun wrote...

It is an expansion.

Define please.

It expands the gameplay.

How?  Make it longer but with less previous game access?
Try not to use the word expand in the definition, please.

You do get access to the previous game. The whole point of the expansion is that you finish the game & play on as your character like any other game expansions. It is different in a sense that it allows any saved games to import as well as being able to start a new character in Awakening, but I don't see not being able to access Awakening content in Age as a flaw but just as a streotype. You do get to acess DA:O elements in Awakening & that makes it good enough to be an expansion.

Check link below.

http://en.wikipedia..../Expansion_pack

Modifié par jsachun, 23 mars 2010 - 11:19 .

[Layn]

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

Can someone please define the term expansion?  It helps my critical thinking about this game.

What does Awakening expand?  It does not seem to relate to Dragon Age: Origins, in effect, because of the lack of carry over from one to another.  I have read it only levels up characters for the next game. Is that the chief job of an RPG expansion? 

So what does it expand?  Can the Bioware developers answer this question please? Can players who have played answer this question from their own experience? 

What is an expansion? What does Awakening expand?

an expansion at its core is a game with a shorter development time because it uses the engine and assets from the original.  Usually it requires the original game, because it doesn't include said engine and assets on itself, but some expansions actually do. It usually adds more story and new features to a varied degree.
when the events of the expansion can happen at any time, it'll be merged into the original gameworld and will be accesible at any time (Baldurs Gate: tales of the sword coast). when the events happen after the game, the expansion is started seperately (Baldurs Gate 2: Throne of Baahl). Expansions have the exact same features and usually play like the original game, but also add to it with a slew of new features and improvements some of which which if they aren't NPC and environment dependent are then also usable in the original game, not necessarily though (neverwinter nights expansions)..
in an RPG this all usually means that you continue with the same character (before Dragon Age and Mass Effect usually all that was transferred was just the character stats) into a new (side) story or one that wraps some loose storypoints up.

Modifié par Crrash, 23 mars 2010 - 11:23 .

[Yrkoon]

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

Can someone please define the term expansion?  It helps my critical thinking about this game. 

This is a very good question.  And it strikes at the core of why I'm personally disappointed in Awakenings.

For as long as I've been gaming, expansion packs  added content and skills to the original game.

That is to say,  if the expansion featured, for example,  New warrior specializations/talents, these skills applied to the Original title  (example:  NWN's expansions.   HoTU added weaponmasters, Palemasters  and some new feats and spells that a player can use in the OC if they wished to.)

If the  "expansion pack" stands alone and doesn't add anything to the original title then  you cannot  accurately  refer to it as an "expansion".  There are better  terms to use.  "Module" comes to mind.  "Add-on" is another.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 23 mars 2010 - 11:27 .

[Pen-N-Paper]

jsachun wrote...

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

jsachun wrote...

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

jsachun wrote...

It is an expansion.

Define please.

It expands the gameplay.

How?  Make it longer but with less previous game access?
Try not to use the word expand in the definition, please.

You do get access to the previous game. The whole point of the expansion is that you finish the game & play on as your character like any other game expansions. It is different in a sense that it allows any saved games to import as well as being able to start a new character in Awakening, but I don't see not being able to access Awakening content in Age as a flaw but just as a streotype. You do get to acess DA:O elements in Awakening & that makes it good enough to be an expansion.

Check link below.

http://en.wikipedia..../Expansion_pack

So an expansion is a module then?

[Sorry, I should explain I am an old '79 AD&Der and this, happily enough, is my first RPG computer game bought new. Hence my nickname. DA:O remains a good experience.]

As a module, I should be able to carry forward my character: level, class, abilities, status, cohorts, and sundry resources and possessions as well as feats and history.

Is this a fair assumption?

[jsachun]

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

jsachun wrote...

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

jsachun wrote...

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

jsachun wrote...

It is an expansion.

Define please.

It expands the gameplay.

How?  Make it longer but with less previous game access?
Try not to use the word expand in the definition, please.

You do get access to the previous game. The whole point of the expansion is that you finish the game & play on as your character like any other game expansions. It is different in a sense that it allows any saved games to import as well as being able to start a new character in Awakening, but I don't see not being able to access Awakening content in Age as a flaw but just as a streotype. You do get to acess DA:O elements in Awakening & that makes it good enough to be an expansion.

Check link below.

http://en.wikipedia..../Expansion_pack

So an expansion is a module then?

[Sorry, I should explain I am an old '79 AD&Der and this, happily enough, is my first RPG computer game bought new. Hence my nickname. DA:O remains a good experience.]

As a module, I should be able to carry forward my character: level, class, abilities, status, cohorts, and sundry resources and possessions as well as feats and history.

Is this a fair assumption?

Yes, but the story has evolved.  I'm a little disapointed at the magnitude of the expansion, but you might find it different.

[Proposition_Joe]

JaegerBane I even remember you from NWN2 forums Sorecerer guy, Point to what i wrote was of course that i was not one of thoose people...

I actually thought the spritimeter was a good invention, made the game harder for awhile.

Besides, not at all the same complaints about what i read about Awakening and Motb. Everything i read that Awakening is lacking, Motb had imo.

You more i read about it the more satisfied i am that i stayed clear of this expansion.

[Pen-N-Paper]

Yrkoon wrote...

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

Can someone please define the term expansion?  It helps my critical thinking about this game. 

If the  "expansion pack" stands alone and doesn't add anything to the original title then  you cannot  accurately  refer to it as an "expansion".  There are better  terms to use.  "Module" comes to mind.  "Add-on" is another.

Thank you for the compliment. 

I have the DLC for Dragon Age: Origins. In this context I bring in myself and all that represents me and gain whatever the DLC offers. I do not lose anything going in. Since my background is pen-n-paper, I view Dragon Age: Origins to be the core rules and the DLC like supplements (adding resources, feats, prestige classes, etc..) 

Going by the marketing of Awakening, I expect it to be something that builds upon the DLC concept, itself an enhancement to the Dragon Age: Origins core game. It offers free flow access between DLC points of access on the map for example, which I take it Awakening does not.

I am asking myself if Awakening is less than DLC.  Am I so far off track in my train of thought?

[jsachun]

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

Can someone please define the term expansion?  It helps my critical thinking about this game. 

If the  "expansion pack" stands alone and doesn't add anything to the original title then  you cannot  accurately  refer to it as an "expansion".  There are better  terms to use.  "Module" comes to mind.  "Add-on" is another.

Thank you for the compliment. 

I have the DLC for Dragon Age: Origins. In this context I bring in myself and all that represents me and gain whatever the DLC offers. I do not lose anything going in. Since my background is pen-n-paper, I view Dragon Age: Origins to be the core rules and the DLC like supplements (adding resources, feats, prestige classes, etc..) 

Going by the marketing of Awakening, I expect it to be something that builds upon the DLC concept, itself an enhancement to the Dragon Age: Origins core game. It offers free flow access between DLC points of access on the map for example, which I take it Awakening does not.

I am asking myself if Awakening is less than DLC.  Am I so far off track in my train of thought?

DLC is just a term for contents you can download off the internet. In the old days it would have all been called an expansion as long as it added to the original experience. 

Modifié par jsachun, 23 mars 2010 - 11:41 .

[Pen-N-Paper]

jsachun wrote...

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

jsachun wrote...

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

jsachun wrote...

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

jsachun wrote...

It is an expansion.

Define please.

It expands the gameplay.

How?  Make it longer but with less previous game access?
Try not to use the word expand in the definition, please.

You do get access to the previous game. The whole point of the expansion is that you finish the game & play on as your character like any other game expansions. It is different in a sense that it allows any saved games to import as well as being able to start a new character in Awakening, but I don't see not being able to access Awakening content in Age as a flaw but just as a streotype. You do get to acess DA:O elements in Awakening & that makes it good enough to be an expansion.

Check link below.

http://en.wikipedia..../Expansion_pack

So an expansion is a module then?

[Sorry, I should explain I am an old '79 AD&Der and this, happily enough, is my first RPG computer game bought new. Hence my nickname. DA:O remains a good experience.]

As a module, I should be able to carry forward my character: level, class, abilities, status, cohorts, and sundry resources and possessions as well as feats and history.

Is this a fair assumption?

Yes, but the story has evolved.  I'm a little disapointed at the magnitude of the expansion, but you might find it different.

How has the story evolved? 

I get the Player Character gains levels. The story...?  I am not so sure I have a clear grasp of the "story's evolution."  With limited PC to new NPC interaction and without bringing my own story to the expansion (gear, resources, skills - yes, I mean stuff like pick pocketing here, cohorts, etc.) where does the expansion occur? 

Can I bring my new story (cohorts, resources, skills, level, etc.) into Dragon Age: Origins?  

[Pen-N-Paper]

jsachun wrote...

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

Can someone please define the term expansion?  It helps my critical thinking about this game. 

If the  "expansion pack" stands alone and doesn't add anything to the original title then  you cannot  accurately  refer to it as an "expansion".  There are better  terms to use.  "Module" comes to mind.  "Add-on" is another.

Thank you for the compliment. 

I have the DLC for Dragon Age: Origins. In this context I bring in myself and all that represents me and gain whatever the DLC offers. I do not lose anything going in. Since my background is pen-n-paper, I view Dragon Age: Origins to be the core rules and the DLC like supplements (adding resources, feats, prestige classes, etc..) 

Going by the marketing of Awakening, I expect it to be something that builds upon the DLC concept, itself an enhancement to the Dragon Age: Origins core game. It offers free flow access between DLC points of access on the map for example, which I take it Awakening does not.

I am asking myself if Awakening is less than DLC.  Am I so far off track in my train of thought?

DLC is just a term for contents you can download off the internet. In the old days it would have all been called an expansion as long as it added to the original experience. 

Which it did. So the DLC is an expansion.  The Return to Ostagar, for example, is just a shorter expansion. My take away from that expansion included: new equipment, increase to my level, deepening my "relationship" with my party members, and added to the Dragon Age:Origins world map.

Am I on the same page as you here?

[jsachun]

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

jsachun wrote...

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

Can someone please define the term expansion?  It helps my critical thinking about this game. 

If the  "expansion pack" stands alone and doesn't add anything to the original title then  you cannot  accurately  refer to it as an "expansion".  There are better  terms to use.  "Module" comes to mind.  "Add-on" is another.

Thank you for the compliment. 

I have the DLC for Dragon Age: Origins. In this context I bring in myself and all that represents me and gain whatever the DLC offers. I do not lose anything going in. Since my background is pen-n-paper, I view Dragon Age: Origins to be the core rules and the DLC like supplements (adding resources, feats, prestige classes, etc..) 

Going by the marketing of Awakening, I expect it to be something that builds upon the DLC concept, itself an enhancement to the Dragon Age: Origins core game. It offers free flow access between DLC points of access on the map for example, which I take it Awakening does not.

I am asking myself if Awakening is less than DLC.  Am I so far off track in my train of thought?

DLC is just a term for contents you can download off the internet. In the old days it would have all been called an expansion as long as it added to the original experience. 

Which it did. So the DLC is an expansion.  The Return to Ostagar, for example, is just a shorter expansion. My take away from that expansion included: new equipment, increase to my level, deepening my "relationship" with my party members, and added to the Dragon Age:Origins world map.

Am I on the same page as you here?

Yes. But DLCs can also add to actual game mechanics. Like what the boys are doing at Relic with Dawn of War 2 with free DLCs.  They are addding different online multiplayer expriences with DLCS and this is not defined as an expansion.

Modifié par jsachun, 23 mars 2010 - 11:59 .

[Pen-N-Paper]

jsachun wrote...

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

jsachun wrote...

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Pen-N-Paper wrote...

Can someone please define the term expansion?  It helps my critical thinking about this game. 

If the  "expansion pack" stands alone and doesn't add anything to the original title then  you cannot  accurately  refer to it as an "expansion".  There are better  terms to use.  "Module" comes to mind.  "Add-on" is another.

Thank you for the compliment. 

I have the DLC for Dragon Age: Origins. In this context I bring in myself and all that represents me and gain whatever the DLC offers. I do not lose anything going in. Since my background is pen-n-paper, I view Dragon Age: Origins to be the core rules and the DLC like supplements (adding resources, feats, prestige classes, etc..) 

Going by the marketing of Awakening, I expect it to be something that builds upon the DLC concept, itself an enhancement to the Dragon Age: Origins core game. It offers free flow access between DLC points of access on the map for example, which I take it Awakening does not.

I am asking myself if Awakening is less than DLC.  Am I so far off track in my train of thought?

DLC is just a term for contents you can download off the internet. In the old days it would have all been called an expansion as long as it added to the original experience. 

Which it did. So the DLC is an expansion.  The Return to Ostagar, for example, is just a shorter expansion. My take away from that expansion included: new equipment, increase to my level, deepening my "relationship" with my party members, and added to the Dragon Age:Origins world map.

Am I on the same page as you here?

Yes. But DLCs can also add to actual game mechanics. Like what the boys are doing at Relic with dawn of War 2 with free DLCs.  They are addding different online multiplayer expriences with DLCS and this is not defined as an expansion.

Yes. I thought about that only after I had written my reply, though I am unfamilar with the games you mention. My bad. Stuff like the gear from the flash game, or the Blood Armor would be DLC but not an expansion itself. 

But Shale would be an expansion DLC, right?  It carries on with me as a cohort, interacts with my thinking process, offers my story new directions to travel, etc.  It enriches my story experience.  It's not just about gear or leveling.  The are consequences to interacting/playing with Shale.

Modifié par Pen-N-Paper, 23 mars 2010 - 12:07 .

[jsachun]

Yes, I'd say so.

[Layn]

all DLC are expansions, just smaller ones. You can't apply expectations from a pen and paper game to computer games, because those things are more difficult to apply (story has to be less dynamic) and there is not one defined way how an expansion has to be.

[Pen-N-Paper]

From what I have read on the forums here, Awakening has few consequences to playing it. Dragon Age: Origins is unaffected by Awakening and Awakening is largely unaffected by Dragon Age: Origins.



Awakening ups the character level (and all that means in terms of skills and talents, including bugs)

It offers a few more feat trees (some plagued with bugs)

It offer more material resources (and takes away others).



But, I would not be inclined to say this expands my story. It is more like DLC and not like Return to Ostagar where my relationship with the party members was improved and the story (e.g. the King's documents) was expanded. There are no apparent consequences to my interaction with the new cohorts (or even the old) in Awakening.



$40 release price.... Am I missing something here?

[Pen-N-Paper]

Crrash wrote...

all DLC are expansions, just smaller ones. You can't apply expectations from a pen and paper game to computer games, because those things are more difficult to apply (story has to be less dynamic) and there is not one defined way how an expansion has to be.

Yes, a computer game railroads by necessity.  Still, for what it is on the market, Dragon Age: Origins is pretty good. My hat's off to the team.

I am just trying to define the terms I will use as criteria of my decison to purchase Awakening: now, later, never.

If Awakening is not essential to the next games, like interconnected modules, then why bother?  Just for loot and new skill trees?  Meh... I don't know.  My next Dragon Age game might be harder down the road without all the expanded skill trees.  And, since it won't interfer with my long term in-game relationships/story, then the question for me really boils down to: what does the $40 expansion expand?

Modifié par Pen-N-Paper, 23 mars 2010 - 01:06 .

[Spyndel]

Jenocide wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Throne of Bhaal is an expansion.
Mask of the Betrayer is an expansion.

How is it that those "expansions" almost universally satisfy player's needs, but Awakening doesn't?
The expansion card flies like a lead balloon.

throne of bhaal has all the same things people are complaining about when talking about Awakening. Its quite funny.

Throne of Bhaal expanded the content of the *original* game, in addition to a *challenging* epic level campaign that was the direct, climactic conclusion to the stories of the protagonist and all the companions fans were attached to.

Awakening compares poorly.

Modifié par Spyndel, 23 mars 2010 - 01:09 .

[Kerilus]

An expansion can be very well-done, sometimes even better than the original game you know. Such as Mask of the Betrayer of NWN2 and The Hordes of the Underdark of NWN. Especially Mask of the Betrayer. It has an import system, but no continuity issues for the story is more independent from NWN2 than DA:A from DA:O. Also, the story is quite so amazing, with new gameplay concepts as well as memorable villains/ battles and places.

[archonsod]

Pen-N-Paper wrote...
But, I would not be inclined to say this expands my story. It is more like DLC and not like Return to Ostagar where my relationship with the party members was improved and the story (e.g. the King's documents) was expanded. There are no apparent consequences to my interaction with the new cohorts (or even the old) in Awakening.

The story of Awakening adds an epilogue to that of Origins, which is expanding the story by definition. It doesn't affect the story of Origins much, but then the return to the moot epilogue of Lord of the Rings didn't exactly put the prior story into a new perspective.

$40 release price.... Am I missing something here?

 You tell me. Over here the RRP is half what the RRP for the original game was, which is the norm for expansions.

Complaining over the price is a bit silly though. I only paid half the RRP for the original game and about two thirds of the RRP for the expansion, but then I don't mind shopping around for a bargain.

[Pen-N-Paper]

archonsod wrote...

Pen-N-Paper wrote...
But, I would not be inclined to say this expands my story. It is more like DLC and not like Return to Ostagar where my relationship with the party members was improved and the story (e.g. the King's documents) was expanded. There are no apparent consequences to my interaction with the new cohorts (or even the old) in Awakening.

The story of Awakening adds an epilogue to that of Origins, which is expanding the story by definition. It doesn't affect the story of Origins much, but then the return to the moot epilogue of Lord of the Rings didn't exactly put the prior story into a new perspective.

$40 release price.... Am I missing something here?

 You tell me. Over here the RRP is half what the RRP for the original game was, which is the norm for expansions.

Complaining over the price is a bit silly though. I only paid half the RRP for the original game and about two thirds of the RRP for the expansion, but then I don't mind shopping around for a bargain.

I thought the story of Origins had no tie-in value to Awakening. My assumption is one could start a new Character without any Origins backstory, except in the most very tenuous sense (the rumour he comes from Ferelden for example). Even the title of this Thread suggests Awakening is a stand alone game, in fact, requiring a title to distinguish it from other stand alone games, having nothing more to do with Origins except as a purchase requirement to play Awakening on the PC.

If my imagination gap fills the story, much like the relationship the player character has with the returning cohort from Origins whose adoration meter is reset, then the prologue from the DA:2 would suffice as well if not better than the Awakening epilogue.

Modifié par Pen-N-Paper, 23 mars 2010 - 03:59 .

[Pen-N-Paper]

archonsod wrote...
Complaining over the price is a bit silly though.

Agreed. The price is a factor of supply and demand. The lower the demand and the greater the supply, the more discount the price, and visa-versa.   My purchase of an English copy of Awakening will have to factor shipping from abroad into my buyer consideration. So far I am watching prices drop as low as $26 USD.

[Yrkoon]

Kerilus wrote...

 Especially Mask of the Betrayer. It has an import system, but no continuity issues for the story is more independent from NWN2 than DA:A from DA:O.

Just a  side note because I know that wasn't your main point, but  the bolded part  here is not true.

Mask of the Betrayer added  more than a dozen  new spells and feats to the NWN2 main game.  It  added a few   new classes  which can be used in the main game.  It even added 2 new  *races*, which again, could be used in the main game.    Thus, it is a true expansion pack by definition

And that is the difference here.  the new spells, specializations and talents  in   Awakenings are not available in Origins.  Awakenings  is a stand alone in that aspect.  Something I've never seen in any game calling itself an expansion.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 23 mars 2010 - 04:17 .