97 réponses à ce sujet

[mutantspicy]

Well I haven't purchased awakenings yet. I'm glad I didn't I'll wait for the patch to fix the bugs. Thats my main concern. As it doesn't seem all that stable, in that there's alot of inconsistencies in people experience with it.

However, I for one am happy it was profittable. I'm glad EA, Bioware are making money.

The PC game industry is practically failing apart. If we want games in the future that are fantastic, then these companies need cash and a lot of it. When you look at the price tag. Yes its high, but all games coming out now are going up and up. The original was 60 bucks, this is 40 bucks. Thats about right as far as I'm concerned. Oblivion was 40 for the game 30 to 35 for the expansion. NWN was like 30 for the game, and 25 for the expansions. Its not like you didn't know this was an expansion for 40 bucks going in.

The bottom line is that in order to make these thing a whole lot of people need a paycheck.  If you don't like it, go outside and get a hobby.

Modifié par mutantspicy, 23 mars 2010 - 04:31 .

[Unseen_77]

DAA is not a expansion as advertised. DAA is an add-on. I could say more but so much has already been said on this topic. IT was plain false advertised in my opinion.



Having said this I have never paid 40 Dollars for an add-on in my life.

[Murphys_Law]

JaegerBane wrote...

Murphys_Law wrote...


What's your point?  Humans complain a lot, I don't see how we need to an example of past games to demonstrate that.  We will always complain about everything imaginable because nothing is perfect for everyone and we want to make it better (one man's complaining is another man's constructive criticism).  Your example is also not really comparable to DA:A complaints that I have seen on this board.  Most of the complaints are focused on length, price, and DLC item issues with only a few attacking game design choices (party dialog system, difficulty too easy).  The key thing you should focus on is the price complaints, how many times do you see people complain about the price of MotB?  It seems like a sure sign to me that people are not getting the value they expect at Awakenings price.  Did it ever occur to you that Awakenings may be signicficantly worse than MotB and other expansions?  The fact that there are complaints about any game does not suddenly invalidate that opinion.

My point is self evident. The second a bunch of cry babies don't get precisely what they want they're straight on the forums blaring their eyes out about how x developer has sold out and they remember the good old days where expansions were great value and reams of all that crap. It gets regurgitated with every new release and, from what I'm seeing on here, all the horrors and apocalypses that plagued the previous games apparently evaporate, and the game they were previously going into hysterics over somehow mutates into an example of how things should be done and the cycle begins anew.

Understand that I'm not referring to everyone who is complaining. Some mention stuff that the didn't like, and what they would have preferred. Some point out issues that are perfectly valid. These points have value, but they seem to get buried under a mountain of bull**** from this weird army of amnesiac drama queens. Ordinarily that would be amusingly pathetic, but in these cases, I'm a little concerned that the real issues that the mentally stable are trying to get across may not get to the devs.

And please, spare me any discussions about the values of opinion. Everyone is entitled to one by default - but I don't get why certain people seem to think they can say whatever crap comes to mind and expect it to be taken seriously on the basis that it's their opinion. There's people on here claiming that because it doesn't make an epilogue save then it means our romances are dead. There's people bellowing that the keep is a rip-off of NWN2. There's people claiming that the length of the xpack is proof Bioware is dead/evil/possessed/all of the above.

I am farily sure that Bioware has intelligent enough employees to weed out the whining threads from the constructive ones.  Frankly, I don't know what forum you have been reading because this one has a lot less whining/troll threads than say the ceasepool of forums...the WoW forums.  A lot of discussion here has been very constructive, it is just a question on whether Bioware will listen to any of it.  With Awakenings, Bioware has made a lot of strange choices especially for an expansion and I see a lot of complaints that are legimate and they are adding up.  I haven't played the game yet and I will buy it at a lower price, so I reserve judgement on how good it is.  By the way, I wasn't lecturing you on opinions I was lecturing you on how people percieve the difference between constructive critism and whining.  One man's constructive critism is another man's whine.  The way it is written is the best way to tell if to take it seriously or not.  Unforunately, melodrama seems to be a constant on the internet, I suggest ignoring it and looking to see if the person makes any legimate points.

[Abigail Fenn]

Honestly, why were people expecting so much from Awakening? I don't care about any of the arguments that it's an expansion, DLC, add-on, game, etc, but it doesn't make sense to me that people seemed to believe that Awakening was going to be better than DAO. I don't understand that. Expansions are almost never as good as the original game. Don't bother mentioning Throne of Bhaal, I've never played it, and have no interest in doing so, since it's an old game.



DAO has established itself as a landmark in RPG history. Awakening is just adding on to that, giving us another little story to play through, something new to experience. Bugs will be fixed in time. The cameos are still a new thing for BW, give them a break. The companions obviously won't be a fleshed out, since it's only an expansion. They're tweaking parts of the system in response to complaints from DAO, and trying to find a good balance, hence the new dialogue system.



Point is, Bioware may be an amazing company, but every company will have moments when they produce something that fails to meet fan expectation. In fact, I remember DAO receiving waves and waves of complaints after it was released. And now, everybody loves it. So how about people stop complaining about how terrible Awakening is and try to actually enjoy the game? Bioware doesn't have to pay attention to the fans, but they do, and Awakening is at least an attempt to figure out what we, the fans, would like to see in future games. Cut them some slack, and try acknowledging parts of the game that they did well for once.

[Murphys_Law]

archonsod wrote...

Pen-N-Paper wrote...
But, I would not be inclined to say this expands my story. It is more like DLC and not like Return to Ostagar where my relationship with the party members was improved and the story (e.g. the King's documents) was expanded. There are no apparent consequences to my interaction with the new cohorts (or even the old) in Awakening.

The story of Awakening adds an epilogue to that of Origins, which is expanding the story by definition. It doesn't affect the story of Origins much, but then the return to the moot epilogue of Lord of the Rings didn't exactly put the prior story into a new perspective.

$40 release price.... Am I missing something here?

 You tell me. Over here the RRP is half what the RRP for the original game was, which is the norm for expansions.

Complaining over the price is a bit silly though. I only paid half the RRP for the original game and about two thirds of the RRP for the expansion, but then I don't mind shopping around for a bargain.

How is complaining about the price silly?  When a company sets a price on a product they are saying something very specific about what they think of their customers.  If you do not see how charging $10 less than the full game for 1/3 of the content is a problem than I am going to have to ask you to take off the Bioware fan boy hat.  Yes, I realize there are many deal out there so you can knock the down to a more reasonable level, but those deals would of been there no matter the set price.  I realize many loyal fans would pay this price, but I think it is pretty clear from the forums that a number people are upset about the amount they got for their money.  Both the DLC and this expansion have had a lot of medicore reviews compared to the otherwise amazing reviews of the original.  It is pretty obvious that Awakenings could of used a little more development time and I have no doubt that EA wanted it out the door to ride the success of DA:O.  That has me more worried than anything else for future DLC and expansions and why I chose a wait and see approach for this expansion when normally I would of bought it full price on the spot.

[Murphys_Law]

Abigail Fenn wrote...

Honestly, why were people expecting so much from Awakening? I don't care about any of the arguments that it's an expansion, DLC, add-on, game, etc, but it doesn't make sense to me that people seemed to believe that Awakening was going to be better than DAO. I don't understand that. Expansions are almost never as good as the original game. Don't bother mentioning Throne of Bhaal, I've never played it, and have no interest in doing so, since it's an old game.

DAO has established itself as a landmark in RPG history. Awakening is just adding on to that, giving us another little story to play through, something new to experience. Bugs will be fixed in time. The cameos are still a new thing for BW, give them a break. The companions obviously won't be a fleshed out, since it's only an expansion. They're tweaking parts of the system in response to complaints from DAO, and trying to find a good balance, hence the new dialogue system.

Point is, Bioware may be an amazing company, but every company will have moments when they produce something that fails to meet fan expectation. In fact, I remember DAO receiving waves and waves of complaints after it was released. And now, everybody loves it. So how about people stop complaining about how terrible Awakening is and try to actually enjoy the game? Bioware doesn't have to pay attention to the fans, but they do, and Awakening is at least an attempt to figure out what we, the fans, would like to see in future games. Cut them some slack, and try acknowledging parts of the game that they did well for once.

You haven't played many expansions than.  Not many are "better" than the original, but two that stand out are Throne of Bhaal and Mask of the Betrayer.  I thought Mask of the Betrayer was actually better than the original NWN2 game.  At the very least, I expect expansions to be just as good as the original (or very close) and just add in more stories/skills/items.  The characters not being well developed enough complaint cannot be dismissed with an expansion excuse.  Once again, several Mask of Betrayer characters that were totally new are still memorable to many fans and were very well developed.  If they couldn't expand on them enough in the short timeframe of Awakenings than maybe *shocker* it was a bad idea to put in completely new characters?  Don't even get me started on the new dialog system, why would you completely destroy the amazing old system and implement, I think, a creative new one in an expansion pack?  The new dialog system just screams as something to complement the old one and not replace it.  I fail to see how anyone could have a legimate complaint about the old dialog system because it was completely optional.  Yes, DA:O had a fair number of criticism but most of that was about their design choices and varied from person to person greatly (due to many new people to RPGs like this one).  DA:A criticism is different in nature.  Obviously anyone who would buy this already enjoyed the original, so they are not new to this type of RPG.  The DA:A criticism is almost universally about quality: lots of bugs, length, price, DLC items not transfering, carry over from DA:O lacking for all endings (especially US).  This has me worried.

[Kerilus]

Yrkoon wrote...

Kerilus wrote...

 Especially Mask of the Betrayer. It has an import system, but no continuity issues for the story is more independent from NWN2 than DA:A from DA:O.

Just a  side note because I know that wasn't your main point, but  the bolded part  here is not true.

Mask of the Betrayer added  more than a dozen  new spells and feats to the NWN2 main game.  It  added a few   new classes  which can be used in the main game.  It even added 2 new  *races*, which again, could be used in the main game.    Thus, it is a true expansion pack by definition

And that is the difference here.  the new spells, specializations and talents  in   Awakenings are not available in Origins.  Awakenings  is a stand alone in that aspect.  Something I've never seen in any game calling itself an expansion.

Oh, when I said that I was referring to story and background, which relate to the continuity issused, instead of game mechanics.

Modifié par Kerilus, 23 mars 2010 - 11:57 .

[Abigail Fenn]

Murphys_Law wrote...

You haven't played many expansions than.  Not many are "better" than the original, but two that stand out are Throne of Bhaal and Mask of the Betrayer.  I thought Mask of the Betrayer was actually better than the original NWN2 game.  At the very least, I expect expansions to be just as good as the original (or very close) and just add in more stories/skills/items.  The characters not being well developed enough complaint cannot be dismissed with an expansion excuse.  Once again, several Mask of Betrayer characters that were totally new are still memorable to many fans and were very well developed.  If they couldn't expand on them enough in the short timeframe of Awakenings than maybe *shocker* it was a bad idea to put in completely new characters?  Don't even get me started on the new dialog system, why would you completely destroy the amazing old system and implement, I think, a creative new one in an expansion pack?  The new dialog system just screams as something to complement the old one and not replace it.  I fail to see how anyone could have a legimate complaint about the old dialog system because it was completely optional.  Yes, DA:O had a fair number of criticism but most of that was about their design choices and varied from person to person greatly (due to many new people to RPGs like this one).  DA:A criticism is different in nature.  Obviously anyone who would buy this already enjoyed the original, so they are not new to this type of RPG.  The DA:A criticism is almost universally about quality: lots of bugs, length, price, DLC items not transfering, carry over from DA:O lacking for all endings (especially US).  This has me worried.

Actually, I have played Mask of The Betrayer, and I thought it wasn't anywhere near as good as the original.  The only character I remember with any fondness from MoTB is Gann.  As I said, I've never played Throne of Bhaal, and have no interest in doing so, mainly because it's an outdated game and I doubt it would live up to the acclaim of its die-hard fans.  But your suggestion of simply reusing old characters instead of introducing new ones would provide even more problems, because then fans would be complaining about the lack of authenticity.  Hardly anyone is complaining about Oghren because his character is fairly simple and BW remained true to it in Awakening, and if they are complaining it's about the choice to include him as a companion again.

I agree on your point about the dialogue system, that it was optional, and there's really no reason to complain about it.  That was not my complaint, though, it was someone elses that I found completely irrelevant to the quality of Awakening.

I don't think that the argument about length of the game is valid, because if the story is good enough, then length doesn't matter.  Take Mass Effect, for example, it's probably a 15-hour game on average, but it's absolutely amazing.  It's story is strong enough to overcome the fact that it's rather short.  Awakening likely doesn't have a strong enough story to do the same, which is something else I've heard, so thus people are complaining about the length.

I'm not worried; BW has a great reputation, and will continue putting out games that the fans will love.  Just because one expansion doesn't live up to the hype doesn't mean SW:TOR, DA2, or ME3 won't be incredible games.  I still plan on getting Awakening once I have time to play it, and I hope to enjoy it.  I just think that the critisicm is a little extreme for one expansion.

[Wicked 702]

Awakenings is more of a module than anything. An expansion would have added content (like the new skills/talents) into the original campaign for them to have been used. A module is a stand-alone item where you can choose to important your character or not, but has a life separate from that of the original. The expansions to NWN did just that. The new prestige classes/skills could be used in the original.

Awakenings was advertised as an expansion. That was false advertising. It's a module.

[Abigail Fenn]

Wicked 702 wrote...

Awakenings is more of a module than anything. An expansion would have added content (like the new skills/talents) into the original campaign for them to have been used. A module is a stand-alone item where you can choose to important your character or not, but has a life separate from that of the original. The expansions to NWN did just that. The new prestige classes/skills could be used in the original.
Awakenings was advertised as an expansion. That was false advertising. It's a module.

I'll agree with that, it does seem like more of a module than anything else.

[Unseen_77]

A 40 dollar Module at that.

Maybe thats not a big deal to some but don't forget that we all are not on the same pay bracket, or some of us don't have mommies and daddies that buy us everything.

Modifié par Unseen_77, 24 mars 2010 - 12:10 .

[ObserverStatus]

I hope the Starcraft 2 expansions aren't this short.

[Layn]

Abigail Fenn wrote...
As I said, I've never played Throne of Bhaal, and have no interest in doing so, mainly because it's an outdated game and I doubt it would live up to the acclaim of its die-hard fans. 

I played the Baldurs Gate series for the first time only recently (maybe 2 or 3 years ago? i can't honestly remember when it was), i had some mods like unfinished business in it too, and it was a blast. imho its not outdated. Ok beside Dragon Age, It's maybe less immersive because of the lack of choices, but it was still one of the most amazing experiences i've had which then culminated in the epic throne of baahl. It's well worth it, no matter how old it is

[Realmzmaster]

I will ask again who defines what is an expansion? What is a module? What is an add-on? I know the wikipedia definition of an expansion pack is an addition to an existing role-playing game, tabletop game or video game. These add-ons usually add new game areas, weapons, objects, and/or an extended storyline to a complete and already released game.

Did I miss something?

[Wicked 702]

Realmzmaster wrote...

I will ask again who defines what is an expansion? What is a module? What is an add-on? I know the wikipedia definition of an expansion pack is an addition to an existing role-playing game, tabletop game or video game. These add-ons usually add new game areas, weapons, objects, and/or an extended storyline to a complete and already released game.
Did I miss something?

I expect two directional improvement from something labeled as an "expansion": Forward, by adding a new campaign, multiplayer mode, etc. to the story and backward, by adding new skills, units, maps, etc.

WHATEVER it may add (I listed a bunch of things, not just DA:O specific type content) must add to the ENTIRE experience, not just look like a capillary shooting off a main artery.

[Realmzmaster]

@Wicked 702

Ah! so you are applying a definition that applies to yourself not a definitive definition. Thereby EA/Bioware's definition of an expansion would be just as valid. Because an expansion does not have to add to the entire experience. You may wish it to add, but it does not have to do so.

[Wicked 702]

Realmzmaster wrote...

@Wicked 702
Ah! so you are applying a definition that applies to yourself not a definitive definition. Thereby EA/Bioware's definition of an expansion would be just as valid. Because an expansion does not have to add to the entire experience. You may wish it to add, but it does not have to do so.

Well yeah, there's no definive definition. If there were, there'd be no room for dialogue....

Stop giving away ma seecrets!

[wwwwowwww]

I've stated it before and I'll say it again.



Some will say it's an expansion (debatable) some will say it's a module (debatable) some will say it's neither (again debatable)



Sounds to me like the best description is DA:A is an EXTENSTION

[Rhohan66]

you pay 15 to 20 bucks for a cheap expantion, you pay forty dollars for a game.

Allow me to expand, I pay 40 bucks for a shooter with a short story that I will play online.  Its just to much money for to little content, that is what pisses people off the most, when you pay that much for an rpg you have expectations.  If I has paid 19.99 for this I would be okay with it,  as you can tell im not.

No more expantions for me, or modules, I will wait for a steam super sale or something similar.  Word will get out and it will sti on shelves till the price drops.  So if you have not bought it yet wait, it will go on sale, soon.

Modifié par Rhohan66, 24 mars 2010 - 02:43 .

[mutantspicy]

Rhohan66 wrote...

you pay 15 to 20 bucks for a cheap expantion, you pay forty dollars for a game.

Allow me to expand, I pay 40 bucks for a shooter with a short story that I will play online.  Its just to much money for to little content, that is what pisses people off the most, when you pay that much for an rpg you have expectations.  If I has paid 19.99 for this I would be okay with it,  as you can tell im not.

No more expantions for me, or modules, I will wait for a steam super sale or something similar.  Word will get out and it will sti on shelves till the price drops.  So if you have not bought it yet wait, it will go on sale, soon.

In dream world maybe or back in 2003 you'd pay 15 to 20 bucks.  I know it sucks, but games are expensive nowadays.  paying 20 bucks for a game is soooo 2003.

I don't know how much you paid for the original game, for me with digital download edition and Dlc's the original package cost me close to 70 bucks off steam.  The initial price point of origins without the extras was 60.00 dollars.  My point is this game and every thing surrounding it have been expensive from the word go.  So now the 1st expansion is 40 bucks.  Yeah its high, but relatively speaking the ratio of original game price to expansion is close to how all games of this nature do it.  Oblivion, neverwinter, guildwars, etc.  Go back and look how much those games costed and you'll see they're expansion were like 10 dollars cheaper.

[TorstenS]

All the discussion here in this forum shows only one thing... many (not the most) customers are not satisfied with the job of Bioware.....

[Ovidi]

Said it before, I'll say it again.



The Price, the Length and the Bugs are legitimate complaints that are all tied in together. If someone wants to complain about those then fair enough.



Whining about such and such character not returning, or the lack of romances, or the new characters being boring, or the Mhairi thing is just to be expected, some people will never, ever, ever be satisfied with these things.

[Woodey]

Awakening is great. It works flawlessly on my computer and at more than 25 hours playing time spanks most other stand alone games on the market for play value.



I got everything Bioware advertised for Awakening. Sorry you guys didn't read the available info before purchase.