83 réponses à ce sujet

[wildamishrose]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

Sure it is. It's more of the same, bugs and all. Now go register your game or I and most of people will discount your posts for trolling.

Blatant arrogant apologist troll post by someone without a working knowledge of the quality bioware used to put out, and did not keep up with as far as awakenings goes.

[eldertree]

It's a shame to say, but I felt that the small add-ons like the Stone Prisoner and Warden's Keep had a lot more soul to them.

And a lot less linearity.

And a lot less getting stuck on roots, buiding parts, stones or painted air.

And a lot less having to stand around watching corpses for five minutes until they finally can be looted (which is the only reason why this game takes more than 5 hours).

And far fewer monty hauls.



Worth the $40 I paid? Huck, no. This is in no way like other BioWare expansions, which actually added value, and didn't dumb it down.



Or, to put it another way, D.O.A. is to D.O. like Icewind Dale was to BG/BG2. A dumbing down hoping to attract console kids. But unlike I.D., it isn't sold as a standalone, but as an overpriced expansion.

I refuse to believe that the same team created D.O.A. as those who gave us the original, with Leliana singing, Morrigan using us, and Shale turning out to be a more complex character than first impressions gave away.

The only two characters they revived were Oghren who now is obnoxious comical relief instead of someone you feel sorry for, and Alastair, which they remolded into Anders.

The rest are one-dimensional. Yes, it's sad that the romance option is gone, but qutie frankly, the characters are now too shallow for a romance.

[Leon Elsa]

eldertree wrote...
The rest are one-dimensional. Yes, it's sad that the romance option is gone, but qutie frankly, the characters are now too shallow for a romance.

You know, I've never thought of it that way. Now I don't feel weird about there being no romance.

[fishx255]

what do you expect from ea

[rabbitchannel]

I liked the characters more this time around. The DA:O characters felt manufactured. Whenever I would try to start a conversation, the recycling of old lines and the lack of new ones (due to the need to advance the plot before new ones appear), made them feel... I don't know what the best term is... trapped in the little box the writers have made for them. I would routinely select them to check if new options were available and this ended up disconnecting me. I felt like exhausting the dialogue options at a certain time period during the plot reflected the disjointed nature of the dialogue system. Like scraping the bottom of the barrel for content before the next one comes along.



DA:A on the other hand, was masterfully subtle and more relevant. You couldn't go check on your companions like doing chores, only to relive the same conversation you had a while back. It added depth and mystery. It flowed naturally and thus, I was able to relate more and enjoyed those characters more.

[grieferbastard]

You know I really appreciate that anyone is so engaged in a game that they feel a sense of ownership and propriety about it but isn't this all a bit silly? If you believe that BioWare owes you something for being a fan you're sort of the crazy stalker ex-boyfriend kind of customer.

Does anyone really, truly, seriously believe that BG/BG2, every other game BioWare has ever made were not made for profit? That somehow BW has always been some sort of garage-band style 'we just want to make our fans happy' sort of business? They already do more to communicate with their fans than any other game. They already produce the best classic style RPGs. That doesn't mean what that this game or any other is going to be the perfect game for everyone. Just because you don't think it's the greatest game ever in the history of forever doesn't mean that somehow BW got together, designed exactly the game that would make you happiest and then though 'Bah, screw fan X. Lets make this something they wouldn't like because somehow that will make us rich!'

Seriously. These lines of argument are just silly. Awakenings is an expansion. Is it perfect? No, I'd say the story in Origins was better, but it had a lot of other things I liked. Pretending that somehow this was some evil plan on par with:

1. Steal underwear
2. Somehow 'pull one over on our bestest, most loyalist fan EVAR!'
3. ?
4. PROFIT!

This is just silly. I feel your pain about missed expectations. While I liked a lot of the mechanics I felt Awakenings was missing a lot of the 'punch in the gut' quality of RP that Origins had. I don't attribute that to cutting corners but shift in story. It is what it is and Awakenings is still an awesome expansion for me. I'll play through it a few times.

Seriously though. Prifts and soul? Fix things right with their fans? You're a customer.  Buy products you want. Make it known what things you'd pay for in a product and that can influence the market. Attempting to imply that somehow any business owes you something? That's just silly.

[Seagull111]

After reading all posts I'd like to focus my claim.
It's not about compenstation at all, its about the feeling that  Bioware as I have known for about ten years has changed. turned more into EAware.
I really hope awaekning is a one time glitch but the rumors about the feb 1st 2011 makes you wonder if the sequel wouldn't be too rushed to deliver Bioware's quality.

Uptill Awakening when bioware priced something at 40$ many fans had high expectations. I believe that Bioware's reputation was used to overprice Awakening. I'm sure the forum's topics  would have been totally differnet if it was sold at 20-25$. 
The whole thing about compensation is just to feel that Bioware acknowledges their glitch and keeps its wonderfull realtionship with most of its fans.
Concerning bugs, its also dissapointing, and you can't avoid the feeling that people at EA or Bioware don't really care if a certain % of fans cannot enjoy the gave. In BG2  I think there were dozens of patches. coming out even months after the game came out and in DA only two maybe three (when I last checked)
Bottom line:  Has Bioware been EA'ed
And one last comment if DA is your first experiance with Bioware then maybe you don't understand what I'm talking about. But I'm sure that  fans having several years of experiacne with  Bioware are worried two. 

[BewareTheDrow]

McBodman wrote...

I don't want them to give us free stuff, I just want them to make better games.

Pretty much sums up my opinion.

[BewareTheDrow]

Seagull111 wrote...

After reading all posts I'd like to focus my claim.
It's not about compenstation at all, its about the feeling that  Bioware as I have known for about ten years has changed. turned more into EAware.
I really hope awaekning is a one time glitch but the rumors about the feb 1st 2011 makes you wonder if the sequel wouldn't be too rushed to deliver Bioware's quality.

Uptill Awakening when bioware priced something at 40$ many fans had high expectations. I believe that Bioware's reputation was used to overprice Awakening. I'm sure the forum's topics  would have been totally differnet if it was sold at 20-25$. 
The whole thing about compensation is just to feel that Bioware acknowledges their glitch and keeps its wonderfull realtionship with most of its fans.
Concerning bugs, its also dissapointing, and you can't avoid the feeling that people at EA or Bioware don't really care if a certain % of fans cannot enjoy the gave. In BG2  I think there were dozens of patches. coming out even months after the game came out and in DA only two maybe three (when I last checked)
Bottom line:  Has Bioware been EA'ed
And one last comment if DA is your first experiance with Bioware then maybe you don't understand what I'm talking about. But I'm sure that  fans having several years of experiacne with  Bioware are worried two. 

The biggest issue is that since Bioware is now an EA company (despite the claims of Ray & Greg), none of what has happened since DAO's release is a big surprise. DAO was buggy to begin with, and Awakening was overpriced and so very obviously rushed out the door.

EA is *known* for preferring to hit corporate deadlines over supporting a quality product. I'm not saying the sky is falling, but if anyone really expects the situation to improve, I'd have to ask why you think so. They have your money, they're satisfied.

[ChaosUndivded]

BewareTheDrow wrote...

The biggest issue is that since Bioware is now an EA company (despite the claims of Ray & Greg), none of what has happened since DAO's release is a big surprise. DAO was buggy to begin with, and Awakening was overpriced and so very obviously rushed out the door.

EA is *known* for preferring to hit corporate deadlines over supporting a quality product. I'm not saying the sky is falling, but if anyone really expects the situation to improve, I'd have to ask why you think so. They have your money, they're satisfied.

i think you hit the nail right smack on the head with that one you dirty stinking Drow.. EA are to blame for the lack of quality coming out of BioWares studios right now.. they wont let BW release quality items cos quality takes time, and EA don't like waiting.. they want your $$$$ and they want them NOW.. the sad thing is, it's reflecting badly on BW and is hurting their reputation..

it's comparable to the FF series i guess.. even tho 13 is basically a cgi movie you occasionally press a button in, people still bought it even with all the negative publicity, because it's Final Fantasy.. hell i bought it even after hearing all the negative press, because it's Final Fantasy and i love the series, got all of em, cept X-2 cos you don't do sequels in FF.. not that it was really a sequel, more of a whats-to-come..

kinda like Awakenings.. it's not an expansion per se (mainly cos it doesn't add to the original), it's a small peek at what they've got planned to improve and implement in DA2.. yeah, that's how i'll think of Awakenings.. as BioWares version of FFX-2.. a stand-alone (yet requires DA:O to play) add-on with some of the characters, but none of the same story..

[Haexpane]

ChaosUndivded wrote...

 

i think you hit the nail right smack on the head with that one you dirty stinking Drow.. EA are to blame for the lack of quality coming out of BioWares studios right now. .

Yeah "lack of quality"  DAO, DAO A, ME1 and ME2 lack quality?  ROFL the entire world disagrees

[bzombo]

i don't think bioware has suffered from some major lack of quality. i think people are thinking with their hearts. i have played bioware games since the original baldur's gate. there's always been bugs. not because bioware stinks and doesn't care, but because it's bound to happen. there are going to be people with systems that have things that they don't think of, a player does some off the wall combo, or, and this may be the most likely explanation for awakening, mods that conflict with the game. it's the nature of the beast. unless your game is bug ridden to the point of the game being unplayable (i don't think this is the case for 99% of people) it should not be a surprise that there are bugs. patching takes time. anyone who played the tales of the sword coast expansion unpatched knows what i'm talking about with bugs. it just happens. bioware isn't suddenly not caring. they're dealing with an issue all developers deal with, and i really think the vast majority of devs are doing all they can about bugs. most devs that were horrible at dealing with bugs are no longer in business (can you say troika?). bioware's games are top notch games, so people place these insane expectations on everything bioware does, says, or creates. it's just not realistic. they're not going to build the most innovative, ground breaking, revolutionary game every time they release a game. an expansion isn't going to change gaming as we know it. i wonder if some people were expecting it anyway.

[Seagull111]

bzombo wrote...

i . anyone who played the tales of the sword coast expansion unpatched knows what i'm talking about with bugs. .

I' m glad you mentioned tales of the sword coast because I thought  it was a very good expansion, taking you farther in the BG experience.

[TheMadCat]

Haexpane wrote...

ChaosUndivded wrote...

 

i think you hit the nail right smack on the head with that one you dirty stinking Drow.. EA are to blame for the lack of quality coming out of BioWares studios right now. .

Yeah "lack of quality"  DAO, DAO A, ME1 and ME2 lack quality?  ROFL the entire world disagrees

So you're aware DA:A would be the first large project to have it's entire development cycle under EA's "control".

[Dj LynZee]

Haexpane wrote...

ChaosUndivded wrote...

 

i think you hit the nail right smack on the head with that one you dirty stinking Drow.. EA are to blame for the lack of quality coming out of BioWares studios right now. .

Yeah "lack of quality"  DAO, DAO A, ME1 and ME2 lack quality?  ROFL the entire world disagrees

all you do is go around posting trollish or belitting remarks at anyone who naysays this game... or even Bioware.
I smell a fanboy.

[AlanC9]

BewareTheDrow wrote...The biggest issue is that since Bioware is now an EA company (despite the claims of Ray & Greg), none of what has happened since DAO's release is a big surprise. DAO was buggy to begin with, and Awakening was overpriced and so very obviously rushed out the door..

Was DAO really buggier than, say,  NWN1 at release? I don't remember anything in DAO as bad as the infamous Chapter 2 cutscene bug.

And I've heard about plenty of bugs in the BG games, too, though I didn't personally experience too many because I came to them late (the BG2 demo convinced me to buy BG1, and by the time I'd finished that BG2 was patched up).

Modifié par AlanC9, 23 mars 2010 - 08:20 .

[cynicalsaint1]

grieferbastard wrote...

You know I really appreciate that anyone is so engaged in a game that they feel a sense of ownership and propriety about it but isn't this all a bit silly? If you believe that BioWare owes you something for being a fan you're sort of the crazy stalker ex-boyfriend kind of customer.

Does anyone really, truly, seriously believe that BG/BG2, every other game BioWare has ever made were not made for profit? That somehow BW has always been some sort of garage-band style 'we just want to make our fans happy' sort of business? They already do more to communicate with their fans than any other game. They already produce the best classic style RPGs. That doesn't mean what that this game or any other is going to be the perfect game for everyone. Just because you don't think it's the greatest game ever in the history of forever doesn't mean that somehow BW got together, designed exactly the game that would make you happiest and then though 'Bah, screw fan X. Lets make this something they wouldn't like because somehow that will make us rich!'

Seriously. These lines of argument are just silly. Awakenings is an expansion. Is it perfect? No, I'd say the story in Origins was better, but it had a lot of other things I liked. Pretending that somehow this was some evil plan on par with:

1. Steal underwear
2. Somehow 'pull one over on our bestest, most loyalist fan EVAR!'
3. ?
4. PROFIT!

This is just silly. I feel your pain about missed expectations. While I liked a lot of the mechanics I felt Awakenings was missing a lot of the 'punch in the gut' quality of RP that Origins had. I don't attribute that to cutting corners but shift in story. It is what it is and Awakenings is still an awesome expansion for me. I'll play through it a few times.

Seriously though. Prifts and soul? Fix things right with their fans? You're a customer.  Buy products you want. Make it known what things you'd pay for in a product and that can influence the market. Attempting to imply that somehow any business owes you something? That's just silly.

This x1000.

Seriously, whats wrong with you people?
From some of these posts you seriously start wondering what people expect from games these days. The level of self-assumed entitlement you see on these boards is ridiculous. Every little complaint someone has about the game becomes a major game breaking crisis, and Bioware better start working 24/7 to assuage the oh-so rightly deserved outrage over the fact that they didn't cater every little descion about the game to their personal tastes.

Of course there's less content, its a !@#$ing expansion. Of course there isn't as much character developement, there's less content! Of course there's things that not everyone likes, it exists.

You people do realize that the people who post on these forums aren't exactly a good representation of the whole of the game's user-base, right? Forums like this are a breeding ground for vocal minorities.

[Seagull111]

cynicalsaint1 wrote...

You people do realize that the people who post on these forums aren't exactly a good representation of the whole of the game's user-base, right? Forums like this are a breeding ground for vocal minorities.

I have never wrote anything negative on Bioware until Awakening. 
The fact that people think differently doesn't mean its not representative..

[AlanC9]

The problem with an argument about "soul" is that either you believe it already or you don't. I'm not even sure what Seagull111 means. He's certainly welcome to try and explain, but I doubt it'll work.

[TheMadCat]

You people do realize that the people who post on these forums aren't
exactly a good representation of the whole of the game's user-base,
right? Forums like this are a breeding ground for vocal minorities.

By that logic the people saying the game is good or great should also be ignored since they are on a forum and hence are a poor representation of the user base. Since everyone is a member of the vocal minority under this thinking who should be taken the most serious? It's the quality of the post and the reputation of the user that should determine whether their post should be taken into consideration, not lumped together as a "vocal minority" because they're on a forum.

[cynicalsaint1]

TheMadCat wrote...
By that logic the people saying the game is good or great should also be ignored since they are on a forum and hence are a poor representation of the user base. Since everyone is a member of the vocal minority under this thinking who should be taken the most serious? It's the quality of the post and the reputation of the user that should determine whether their post should be taken into consideration, not lumped together as a "vocal minority" because they're on a forum.

You're putting words into my mouth. Nowhere did I say anything about ignoring anything, but the way people on these forums go on like Bioware absolutely must take everything said here to heart, and its some kind of great personal offense when they don't do exactly as they wanted or say, or go out of their way to make sure their specific complaints addressed because they are a 'fan' or something is ridiculous.

The fact that Bioware takes any sort of heed from what fans of their game have to say at all, says a lot. The fact that the developers actually take time to come here and discuss why they did things they way they did on occasion says even more.

But if people really believe that Bioware takes everything that shows up on their forums as a direct representation of what people think of their games, or that input they get from it is used as anything more than one factor amongst many that go into make their final desicions, they're quite deluded.

If they think that Bioware actually owes anyone discounted games, or selling their games for lower than what's deemed profitable, they obviously have no inclination of how business works, no less the fact that companies need to make profit in order to continuing existing.

[Malanek]

They should just fix the bugs. And take what they have learned from the process into their next product. Overall I enjoyed awakenings, some things were a big improvement from DA, some things were a little disapointing. It was still well worth it IMO.

[Seagull111]

AlanC9 wrote...

The problem with an argument about "soul" is that either you believe it already or you don't. I'm not even sure what Seagull111 means. He's certainly welcome to try and explain, but I doubt it'll work.

Well in BG, POTSC, BGII and TOB, and  in NWN and its modules and certainly in DAO, it felt that the people at Bioware truly asked themselves what should we o next, what is the next step in our revival and development of the CRPG. And because they truly asked they truly found - (at least from my perspective, that's how it works in life)
In Awakening there was very little of that.

Modifié par Seagull111, 23 mars 2010 - 09:41 .

[Feraele]

wwwwowwww wrote...

Does bioware have anything to do with the pricing? Or is that set by EA? Pretty sure EA handles that

Pricing also changes from retailer to retailer....they want their cut of the profits. heh

Once its on their store shelves, I am sure that its pretty much out of the publisher's hands..price wise.   I would guess the retailers are given some sort of guideline on what to charge, and after that of course they'll tack on their share..for selling it.

[Feraele]

Seagull111 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

The problem with an argument about "soul" is that either you believe it already or you don't. I'm not even sure what Seagull111 means. He's certainly welcome to try and explain, but I doubt it'll work.

Well in BG, POTSC, BGII and TOB, and  in NWN and its modules and certainly in DAO, it felt that the people at Bioware truly asked what should we o next, what is the next step in our revival and development of the CRPG. And because they truly asked they truly found - (at least from my perspective, that's how it works in life)
In Awakening there was very little of that.

Awakening was pretty much finished by the time they announced that it was coming, they had been working on it for a year prior to that announcement...so any feedback from us wasn't going to matter at that point anyways.