Humm
Because COD sells better than Stalker
Because GOW is considered as a great game
Because Assassin's creed, despite how fool was this game, was a blockbuster
Making smart games where you have to explore planets, spend some time in elevators (cause it's more immersive than loading screen), where your companions would wear real space suit rather than cheerleader clothes and make missions that just don't look like to Shooting-corridors- YEAHcOMon, this kind of game, it doesn't work enough for EA.
No matter how strong you'll complain, the ratings have spoken and that's all that matters for the games company. ME2 is considered as better than ME1.
Tomorrow, you'll see hammerhead missions, 3 minutes missile launching each, and a lot of players would find it more interesting than the mako. Also, for 2 bucks, you'll be able to buy new suits for your companions. Aren't you happy ? 2 bucks, it's nothing bro !
The worst in this story, is that ME is a really great serie. ME2 offered really good in-game moment. As a lot of persons, you think it could have been better with a few more (or actually, less "minus"). But no one will listen to you.
So, there is nothing you can do. Wait for ME3. Hope Bioware will do a mix between ME1 and ME2 and that is it. You can also, for sure, stop supporting them right now, which means don't buy those suits and this Kasumi DLC.
ME2 vs. ME1 gripes
Débuté par
arcron911
, mars 22 2010 04:02
Retour en haut
#27
Posté 22 mars 2010 - 06:11
Ecael
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How is holding the W and D keys for a minute and a half to move past a mountain considered 'smart'? Or the fact that every planet is copy-pasted with the same generic bases?Nolenthar wrote...
Making smart games where you have to explore planets,
spend some time in elevators (cause it's more immersive than loading screen),
Because your squad looking like this by the end of the game is real unique:where your companions would wear real space suit rather than cheerleader
clothes
You're playing the wrong genre.and make missions that just don't look like to Shooting-corridors-
No, the gaming majority has spoken.No matter how strong you'll complain, the ratings have spoken
IMMERSION ≠ ROSE COLORED GLASSES
RPG ≠ TIMESINKS
#28
Posté 22 mars 2010 - 06:21
Collider
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Yes! Loading screens were much better than the elevators. I don't like hearing the same news story for the millionth time while riding an elevator. Most of the time, I don't think of fun when I think of elevator rides.
#29
Posté 22 mars 2010 - 06:23
Dethateer
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Collider wrote...
Yes! Loading screens were much better than the elevators. I don't like hearing the same news story for the millionth time while riding an elevator. Most of the time, I don't think of fun when I think of elevator rides.
Banter involving Wrex made every single elevator trip on the Citadel worth the painstakingly long amount of time it took the damned thing to reach its destination.
#31
Posté 22 mars 2010 - 06:31
Collider
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I almost never got banter. If there was more banter and it was more frequent, I might have liked elevators. But all that happened to me was hearing the same news story for the umpteenth time.Dethateer wrote...
Collider wrote...
Yes! Loading screens were much better than the elevators. I don't like hearing the same news story for the millionth time while riding an elevator. Most of the time, I don't think of fun when I think of elevator rides.
Banter involving Wrex made every single elevator trip on the Citadel worth the painstakingly long amount of time it took the damned thing to reach its destination.
#32
Posté 22 mars 2010 - 06:33
Dethateer
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PetrySilva wrote...
Oh no, this again
This what? I agree with the guy.
#33
Posté 22 mars 2010 - 06:34
Nolenthar
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Ecael wrote...
No, the gaming majority has spoken.
IMMERSION ≠ ROSE COLORED GLASSES
RPG ≠ TIMESINKS
Immersion is what makes you feel you're Shepard. An elevator is nothing more than a loading screen, but you stay in the game. Really, the same story was told, that is true, but how many times have you seen the same loading screen ? The problem is easy : loading screen is something people are used to. They don't complain. Elevators, they didn't understand. It might be the majority, but should it mean the majority's right for this ?
And maybe you're the one who's not playing the good game. Exploration, travelling, is not timesink when it's well done. I played Oblivion, Fallout 3, Morrowind and what I remember from these games (despite the lackness of the first two listed) is in-game moment, travelling the world, dreaming of what I will find. It's exactly the same for ME1.
If I remember ME2, I remember the scripted-part/cinematic part of the last mission. Like it was a movie... It was actually a movie, just this.
Great game includes exploration and immersion. If you're the type of player who always wants to go quicker and quicker in a game, not appreciating any moment of it when you don't have to kill an ennemy, you have to play games like Crysis because they're damn good shooters.
Maybe I just want what I'm paying. Shooters when I buy shooters, RPG when I buy RPG.
That picture was credible in ME1, not at all in ME2, tell me why ?
#34
Posté 22 mars 2010 - 06:39
Dethateer
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I thought Fallout 3 was widely-regarded by the gaming community as an absolute disgrace to the series.
And... no, it wasn't. In fact, it reminds me suspiciously of an old Halo 3 trailer.
And... no, it wasn't. In fact, it reminds me suspiciously of an old Halo 3 trailer.
#35
Posté 22 mars 2010 - 07:34
KotOREffecT
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Kalfear wrote...
AngryFrozenWater wrote...
That means he isn't alone, right?ramdog7 wrote...
<_< here we go again.
this has been discussed over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again
LOL, exactly!
Oh please, there was a big poll on here that clearly stated that a lot more people enjoyed ME 2 more than ME 1.
Not to say that ME 1 is better or ME 2 is, people just try to make it seem like soooooo many people did not enjoy ME 2. Hate to break it to ya, but there were most likely even more people who didn't really enjoy ME 1 for various reasons as well, but overall it was enjoyed way more, much like ME 2 is.
#36
Posté 22 mars 2010 - 07:57
DarthCaine
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#37
Posté 22 mars 2010 - 08:16
AngryFrozenWater
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A troll list. Hehe. That's exactly what it is.Ecael wrote...
ME1 vs. ME2 gripe troll list incoming:AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Ah. The first trolling images appear. This time Ecael has the honor.
I'll bite for once. Here we go...
"-Driving the Mako in main missions before realizing that ignoring enemies is faster (like Ilos Trench Run)"
ME2 got this other flaw that's equally nuts: In some locations enemies keep spawning, until you realize that if you can ignore them by working your way to another location.
"-Driving the Mako on empty, mountanous terrain for almost every planet"
That was boring. ME2 also becomes boring with its fixed routes. There is no open terrain.
"-Having to run/drive back to where you started after completing a quest"
You could open the map and select "Return to the Normandy". There was even a hotkey for that.
"-Ridiculously slow elevators"
It was used to hide loading. It at least gave you news messages or conversations between squad mates. In ME2 you have abstract loading screens instead.
"-Getting stuck in said ridiculously slow elevators and having to restart"
I never encountered that bug. In ME2 you get stuck during fights for no reason at all. You have to reload and try again.
"-Having to restart from a point one hour ago because the game hardly autosaves"
Huh? Try saving a game. It will only take you a couple seconds. The critique about ME1 saved games was not that they were not there, it was that they were made at the wrong position. Example: If there was a cut scene and a fight then the auto save was made before the cut scene and not before the fight.
"-Unskippable cutscenes of the Normandy or the Mako landing"
You have a very bad memory. The unskippable cutscenes were actually used to hide loading. I rather have a cutscene than an abstract loading screen.
ME1 steps to land on Citadel:
1) Select star system
2) Cut scene
3) Select Citadel
4) Cut scene
5) Walk from bridge to exit (and do something else before exiting)
6) Select crew
7) Cut scene
M2 steps to land on Citadel
1) Select star system
2) Cut scene
3) Select Citadel
4) Cut scene
5) Loading screen
6) Select crew
7) Cut scene
How is ME2 any better? Especially steps 4, 5, 6 and 7 in ME2 don't make any sense. In ME1's step 5 you actually felt that the ship has landed. You could prepare yourself to enter the planet/station. Also note that any decision in ME1 had a confirmation that allowed you to cancel the action. In ME2 there is no such thing and you have to continue from 1 through 7.
"-Loading screens, even with the elevators in place (Citadel Rapid Transit and pre-game Load)"
About the rapid transit: I saw loading screens in both ME1 and ME2. About the ME1 elevators: Loading was hidden during the ride. I don't see your point. Maybe you have a very slow system in which loading takes longer than the ride? Time to upgrade your computer if so. The Citadel in ME1 was divided in sections connected by elevators. The Citadel in ME2 was divided in sections connected by corridors or stairs. Sections like the Factory District and the Presidium could only be reached by rapid transfer and a loading screen. How is that any better?
"-Decontamination in progress. Stand by. Decontamination in progress."
It was used to hide a loading screen.
"-Having to play the game 3 times over with one character in order to reach the highest level of tedium"
In ME1 reaching level 57 required you to do everything. You could reach level 58 if you played for maximum experience points. I.e. kill enemies outdoors on foot, etc. In ME2 I can reach its maximum level 30 long before doing the final mission. Is that any better?
"-Having to play the game 5+ times over with one character in order to get the most skill points"
Sorry. Try improve your gaming skills. Reaching level 60 is doable in 2 playthroughs.
"-Immediately dying after getting knocked out of the terrain/level by biotics instead of getting back up"
I never saw this to be a problem. It's often avoidable by staying at a distance. But I remember a flame throwing vorcha in ME2 which was hard to kill as well. Had to reload a lot to get passed him. He was around a corner and he stood near a cover at that corner. Surviving that was defeating the random number generator. How is that better?
"-Realizing that you only actually have 4 different weapons with different textures and accuracy"
In ME2 some classes only have 2 and allow a bonus weapon later on. You upgrade and use the best one of each type. How's that any better?
"-Only using one of those 4 weapons depending on your class"
That's cute. In ME2 you can shoot with 2 weapons at the same time? In ME1 there were even hotkeys to switch between weapons. In ME2 you need to HUD to change weapons or use weapon next/previous hotkeys. Or maybe I don't get it. Hmmm.
"-Having to sort through your inventory of items to figure out what is actually useful"
At least you could figure out which items were useful by comparing what was equipped. Even at shops you could compare stuff. Was that too hard for you? In ME2 there is not that allows you to do that. Is that better?
"-Having to sell your inventory of completely useless items after every mission"
Yes. Too much loot. Agreed. Less loot would solve the problem. Instead they have removed the inventory (which allows you to access your stuff any time) for a complex system of devices which are located in the lab, armory and your cabin. BTW... The armory is also scattered throughout the galaxy and can be found anywhere from a Blue Sun's hideout to the Collector's base. All are magically connected to the Normandy to access your stuff. How's that better?
"-Having to omni-gel your inventory of completely useless items after hitting the credit cap"
It was also used to repair the Mako or to bypass mini-games. Very handy.
"-Having to repeatedly exchange armor and armor mods with a slightly newer version of itself"
The same thing happens in ME2. Only now it is more complicated than selecting it from your inventory. In ME2 you have to find research plans, scan enough resources, go to the lab, select the upgrade. Some upgrades require other upgrades (that need the same thing to be repeated) and some weapons cannot be manufactured without those upgrades. How's that any better?
"-Having to switch between Tungsten/Shredder ammo between enemy types (for each squadmate)"
Takes a couple of clicks. But, yeah, ME2 allows you to select the ammo of the squad in one go, but only if you have level 4 squad ammo. However... Why is ammo a skill? And why is shooting a weapon not? And why does your ammo skill affect other squad members?
"-Spending a minute firing at a krogan spamming Immunity even with the weapon/ammo mods, and then another minute if Warp or some other skill doesn't hit him right as he dies"
We now have the flame throwing vorcha. They are fun too.
"-Mineral, relic and artifact scanning and collection quests"
Optional mission. You didn't need to do those. Complaints like this one caused the new fabulous scanning system. Thank you.
"-Every side quest making use of either:
----A generic freighter
----A generic two floor facility
----A generic science facility"
Horrible indeed.
"Almost every single one of those timesinks - except the last few - are unavoidable in completing Mass Effect 1."
Really? You mean grinding? You don't need to reach level 60 in ME1 you know. It's optional.
"The major timesink in Mass Effect 2, planet-scanning, can be avoided entirely with import bonuses if you want your entire squad to survive with the 3 Normandy upgrades. None of the upgrades are required to complete the game, after all - and it actually ups the difficulty on Insanity without them."
No. You cannot avoid that. I have imported level 60 characters and I still needed to scan for platinum often.
Edit: Changed a couple of typos and some mistakes.
Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 22 mars 2010 - 08:50 .
#38
Posté 22 mars 2010 - 11:02
Nolenthar
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AngryFrozenWater, thank you for having spend time on writing everything I didn't spend time on.
ME1 vs ME2 is generally sided. Most of the people don't understand (or actually don't want to understand, maybe) that we (people not such happy with ME2) liked this game, but that we regret how simply was managed ME1's improvable part.
- Too much loot : remove it ! problem solved
- Planet looks the same, mako exploration is sometimes boring : remove it, problem solved !
- optional, sometimes boring side missions : remove it and give them corridor shooting.
- elevator bores people : remove it and give them loading screen, they never complain about loading screens.
Whatever, we won't change the world.
ME1 vs ME2 is generally sided. Most of the people don't understand (or actually don't want to understand, maybe) that we (people not such happy with ME2) liked this game, but that we regret how simply was managed ME1's improvable part.
- Too much loot : remove it ! problem solved
- Planet looks the same, mako exploration is sometimes boring : remove it, problem solved !
- optional, sometimes boring side missions : remove it and give them corridor shooting.
- elevator bores people : remove it and give them loading screen, they never complain about loading screens.
Whatever, we won't change the world.
#39
Posté 22 mars 2010 - 11:43
Ecael
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[quote]AngryFrozenWater wrote...
Edit: Changed a couple of typos and some mistakes.[/quote]
That's quite possibly the longest response I've received to any of my arguments. Now for the longest response to my responses.
[quote]"-Driving the Mako in main missions before realizing that ignoring enemies is faster (like Ilos Trench Run)"
ME2 got this other flaw that's equally nuts: In some locations enemies keep spawning, until you realize that if you can ignore them by working your way to another location.[/quote]
True. That's a flaw encouraged by the mission XP-only system in ME2. If we could go back to a kill-based or hybrid objective-kill XP system, then that problem could fix itself. In the meantime, I either bunker down and try to beat the those seemingly impossible odds (they do end eventually), or I rush through it depending on my class (Tactical Cloak/Biotic Charge/Tech Armor works well for those areas).
[quote]"-Driving the Mako on empty, mountanous terrain for almost every planet"
That was boring. ME2 also becomes boring with its fixed routes. There is no open terrain.[/quote]
Open terrain is only useful if there's stuff on it. A herd of Shifty Looking Cows and a (fixed) base here and there shouldn't be the only thing sitting on a planet. The missions in Mass Effect 2, while linear, all have unique level designs and every main mission has its own dynamic soundtrack (the OST has a song for every non-DLC character). Even the N7 missions, albeit having no dialogue, are not pregenerated bases.
"Exploring" in Mass Effect 1 was like reading a blank piece of paper with only the page number on it.
[quote]"-Having to run/drive back to where you started after completing a quest"
You could open the map and select "Return to the Normandy". There was even a hotkey for that.[/quote]
I wasn't referring to being outside with the Mako. Every time you clear out a base inside for a side quest, you have to run back. With Feros and Noveria, you have to drive back with the Mako or run back to the transit station. Even when you return to the Normandy from the Mako or from outside, you get a loading screen, just like you would in ME2. Why doesn't anyone complain about how immersion breaking that loading screen was?
One of the only quests that actually utilized the ME2 "return outside" sequence is the Corporal Toombs quest. That should have been available for every mission.
[quote]"-Ridiculously slow elevators"
It was used to hide loading. It at least gave you news messages or conversations between squad mates. In ME2 you have abstract loading screens instead.[/quote]
Judging by how fast loading screens go by ME2 on my budget Dell Inspiron (and the fact that there's still a 'Loading' sign in the elevators in ME1), I'd take ME2's loading screens any day. Not to mention there are still other loading screens in ME1 (see pictures from my last post).
You still get lots of dialogue from the selectable boxes in hub cities, as well as bringing squadmates to certain areas (a lot of it is hidden because of the forced linearity that was caused by the XBox 360 2-disc switch). Those dialogues are no more generic than Mass Effect 1's:
[quote]"-Getting stuck in said ridiculously slow elevators and having to restart"
I never encountered that bug. In ME2 you get stuck during fights for no reason at all. You have to reload and try again.[/quote]
http://www.youtube.c...od4uzKE#t=4m10s
Playing Mass Effect on the PC, getting stuck in the elevators happened often, especially in Noveria. It's probably why they did away with elevators entirely (replacing everything with loading screens AND ramps/stairs). I had to quick save before and after getting on an elevator just because of that.
Getting stuck in the air in ME2 was also annoying as hell, but if it happened in a safe area you can still manuever your way down.
[quote]"-Having to restart from a point one hour ago because the game hardly autosaves"
Huh? Try saving a game. It will only take you a couple seconds. The critique about ME1 saved games was not that they were not there, it was that they were made at the wrong position. Example: If there was a cut scene and a fight then the auto save was made before the cut scene and not before the fight.[/quote]
Like I said, I did quicksave often because of the biotic-death bug and elevator glitch bug. In ME1, that was a pain since it pauses the game to save. ME2 fixed that.
[quote]"-Unskippable cutscenes of the Normandy or the Mako landing"
You have a very bad memory. The unskippable cutscenes were actually used to hide loading. I rather have a cutscene than an abstract loading screen.
ME1 steps to land on Citadel:
1) Select star system
2) Cut scene
3) Select Citadel
4) Cut scene
5) Walk from bridge to exit (and do something else before exiting)
6) Select crew
7) Cut scene
M2 steps to land on Citadel
1) Select star system
2) Cut scene
3) Select Citadel
4) Cut scene
5) Loading screen
6) Select crew
7) Cut scene
How is ME2 any better? Especially steps 4, 5, 6 and 7 in ME2 don't make any sense. In ME1's step 5 you actually felt that the ship has landed. You could prepare yourself to enter the planet/station. Also note that any decision in ME1 had a confirmation that allowed you to cancel the action. In ME2 there is no such thing and you have to continue from 1 through 7.
"-Loading screens, even with the elevators in place (Citadel Rapid Transit and pre-game Load)"
About the rapid transit: I saw loading screens in both ME1 and ME2. About the ME1 elevators: Loading was hidden during the ride. I don't see your point. Maybe you have a very slow system in which loading takes longer than the ride? Time to upgrade your computer if so. The Citadel in ME1 was divided in sections connected by elevators. The Citadel in ME2 was divided in sections connected by corridors or stairs. Sections like the Factory District and the Presidium could only be reached by rapid transfer and a loading screen. How is that any better?[/quote]
Ever try doing the Zabaleta quest as a Spacer? Getting to the furthest part of the ME1 Citadel (Wards Access) and back to the Normandy SR-1 was much more time-consuming than getting to the furthest part of the Citadel in ME2 and back to the Normandy SR-2. You can't accurately describe it in a list unless you list everything that slows you down.
ME1, Normandy at Mass Relay -> Citadel -> Wards Access -> Back to Normandy Galaxy Map
1) Mass Relay CGI cutscene
2) Click Citadel, Dock
3A) Undocking cutscene from other city OR
3B) LOADING (Normandy traveling screen)
4) Landing Cutscene, unskippable
5) Run to airlock
6) LOADING (Picture of Mass Relay screen), Select Crew screen
7) Elevator, unskippable
8) Citadel Rapid Transit to Wards Access entrance in Presidium
9) LOADING (Picture of Citadel)
10) Run to Wards Access Elevator
11) Elevator, unskippable
12) Wards Access, at Zabaleta
13) Elevator, unskippable
14) Run to Citadel Rapid Transit back to C-Sec
15) LOADING (Picture of Citadel)
16) Elevator, unskippable
17) Normandy -> Decontamination in progress
18) At Galaxy Map
*Stopwatch Timer: 7 minutes, 23 seconds*
Elevators used: 4 times
Loading screens: 4 times (and does NOT include the 4 short 'LOADING' boxes each time elevator was used)
Pauses to autosave: 4 times
ME2, Normandy at Mass Relay -> Citadel -> Back of Dark Star Lounge -> Back to Normandy Galaxy Map
1) Mass Relay CGI cutscene
2) Hover over to Citadel, Dock
3) Landing Cutscene, skipped
4) LOADING (Normandy schematic screen), Select Crew screen
5) Shuttle Cutscene, skipped
6) Citadel Rapid Transit to Level 28
7) LOADING (Weird spinning lock screen)
8) Run to Dark Star Lounge, back
9) Run to Citadel Rapid Transit
10) Citadel Rapid Transit to Normandy
11) LOADING (Another weird Normandy screen)
12) At Galaxy Map
*Stopwatch Timer: 2 minutes, 55 seconds*
Elevators used: 0
Loading screens: 3 times
Pauses to autosave: 0
Takes more than twice as long to finish up a simple side quest and get back to the Normandy in ME1 as it did in ME2. You say I have a bad memory, but I sure didn't forget the extra loading screens in ME1.
[quote]"-Decontamination in progress. Stand by. Decontamination in progress."
It was used to hide a loading screen.[/quote]
Then why is there a loading screen with a picture of a Mass Relay after selecting the crew in the airlock? Or a short "fade to black" sequence when re-entering the Normandy?
[quote]"-Having to play the game 3 times over with one character in order to reach the highest level of tedium"
In ME1 reaching level 57 required you to do everything. You could reach level 58 if you played for maximum experience points. I.e. kill enemies outdoors on foot, etc. In ME2 I can reach its maximum level 30 long
before doing the final mission. Is that any better?[/quote]
You forgot the fact that Level 51-60 does not unlock until you get the Level 50 achievement. Also, maxing out your level in two playthroughs afterward is actually longer - getting out repeatedly to get the killing blow for more XP, decrypting everything in sight and doing every side quest (and even the extremely tedious mineral/artifact collection quests) made Mass Effect 1 unnecessarily long.
Yes, ME2 is better because there are 6 classes that I want to play to Level 30, and I don't want to have to replay it several times just to get the best importable character.
[quote]"-Having to play the game 5+ times over with one character in order to get the most skill points"
Sorry. Try improve your gaming skills. Reaching level 60 is doable in 2 playthroughs.[/quote]
I said to GET THE MOST SKILL POINTS. Getting the max skill points requires several playthroughs because you CANNOT put points in Charm or Intimidate to do so. You gain 1 point in Charm/Intimidate for becoming a Spectre, and then three more for filling up the Paragon or Renegade bar. There are *12* points in each bar to fill up. Your first two playthroughs make it almost impossible to fill up both bars each playthrough (unless you exploit certain bugs), and the next few playthroughs require you to choose extremely carefully in order to fill both up.
Note that this is well before BioWare said that your Paragon/Renegade carries over and not your Charm or Intimidate skill points. If I knew that, I could have just stopped playing upon finishing at Level 60.
[quote]"-Immediately dying after getting knocked out of the terrain/level by biotics instead of getting back up"
I never saw this to be a problem. It's often avoidable by staying at a distance. But I remember a flame throwing vorcha in ME2 which was hard to kill as well. Had to reload a lot to get passed him. He was around a corner and he stood near a cover at that corner. Surviving that was defeating the random number generator. How is that better?[/quote]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-2LSGPXWS8
The flamethrower Vorcha on the left-side door of Garrus' recruitment mission can be avoided by sending your squadmates in the corner first. Even if you stay at a distance in Mass Effect 1, there's no guarantee that you'll get hit by a biotic to stick you into a grate or the cover you're trying to get behind.
[quote]"-Realizing that you only actually have 4 different weapons with different textures and accuracy"
In ME2 some classes only have 2 and allow a bonus weapon later on. You upgrade and use the best one of each type. How's that any better?[/quote]
Every single weapon behaves differently against certain armor types. Depending on your class, you're switching weapons often - especially if you use Heavy Weapons, which are all unique.
[quote]"-Only using one of those 4 weapons depending on your class"
That's cute. In ME2 you can shoot with 2 weapons at the same time? In ME1 there were even hotkeys to switch between weapons. In ME2 you need to HUD to change weapons or use weapon next/previous
hotkeys. Or maybe I don't get it. Hmmm.[/quote]
BioWare failed at putting hotkeys in ME2 because they were the ones porting the game to the PC this time (Demiurge Studios ported ME1). It's something they need to fix, yes.
Still, there are far more unique weapons in ME2 than ME1.
[quote]"-Having to sort through your inventory of items to figure out what is actually useful"
At least you could figure out which items were useful by comparing what was equipped. Even at shops you could compare stuff. Was that too hard for you? In ME2 there is not that allows you to do that. Is that better?[/quote]
You don't need to compare anything because they made it quite clear which gun or upgrade was better for the situation. That way, you don't spend time deciding to upgrade something to I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, or X just because you found a different armor/ammo mod that seems a little better than the one before.
[quote]"-Having to sell your inventory of completely useless items after every mission"
Yes. Too much loot. Agreed. Less loot would solve the problem. Instead they have removed the inventory (which allows you to access your stuff any time) for a complex system of devices which are located in the lab, armory and your cabin. BTW... The armory is also scattered throughout the galaxy and can be found anywhere from a Blue Sun's hideout to the Collector's base. All are magically connected to the Normandy to access your stuff. How's that better?[/quote]
Better than Shepard carrying 150 weapons, mods and armor in his magic clown-car pockets?
[quote]"-Having to omni-gel your inventory of completely useless items after hitting the credit cap"
It was also used to repair the Mako or to bypass mini-games. Very handy.[/quote]
You still had to spam the Omni-gel button from the massive amount of cluttering items (Inventory limit at 150? Really?) you get just from killing stuff. It's not worth bypassing the mini-games for.
[quote]"-Having to repeatedly exchange armor and armor mods with a slightly newer version of itself"
The same thing happens in ME2. Only now it is more complicated than selecting it from your inventory. In ME2 you have to find research plans, scan enough resources, go to the lab, select the upgrade. Some upgrades require other upgrades (that need the same thing to be repeated) and some weapons cannot be manufactured without those upgrades. How's that any better?[/quote]
Even without certain heavy weapons, there's still a wide selection of unique weapons that you get automatically at the start of the game. And it's not like you start Mass Effect 1 with a HWMP X or a Geth Pulse Rifle. Instead, you have to wait you're a high level enough that the armor or weapon you need actually drops, or you have to purchase their specific license and repeatedly check certain merchants for restock.
That, by far, is much more tedious than the inventory system. Of course, Shepard is the only one who has tweakable armor now, but it would be nice if the others wore armor we chose.
[quote]"-Having to switch between Tungsten/Shredder ammo between enemy types (for each squadmate)"
Takes a couple of clicks. But, yeah, ME2 allows you to select the ammo of the squad in one go, but only if you have level 4 squad ammo. However... Why is ammo a skill? And why is shooting a weapon not? And why does your
ammo skill affect other squad members?[/quote]
Why do we even need ammo at all? You'd think that with the heat sink system they tried to retcon in Mass Effect 2, they could have assumed the best ammo was being used in each gun in ME1 to begin with - after all, they don't even need to reload.
Also, if each squad member has their own separate ammo, it takes three clicks in the pause menu to load them all up. For Mass Effect 1, you have to go to each character's page and double click-click-click in order to load up their required ammo.
The shortcut failures in Mass Effect 2 are more directed towards the lack of PC shortcut keys and single clicks to get to each menu (which they definitely need to fix).
[quote]"-Spending a minute firing at a krogan spamming Immunity even with the weapon/ammo mods, and then another minute if Warp or some other skill doesn't hit him right as he dies"
We now have the flame throwing vorcha. They are fun too.[/quote]
Do you run up to Vorcha to melee them or what? Making a Krogan take a minute to die while he's pinned to the ground with biotic/tech ability-spam doesn't increase the difficulty. Getting punished and dying for getting too close to those same Krogan or a flamethrower Vorcha does increase the difficulty a little bit.
[quote]"-Mineral, relic and artifact scanning and collection quests"
Optional mission. You didn't need to do those. Complaints like this one caused the new fabulous scanning system. Thank you.[/quote]
Scanning system is also optional (read last few paragraphs). No one's forcing you to scan before every single mission like driving the Mako was required before every mission.
[quote]"Almost every single one of those timesinks - except the last few - are unavoidable in completing Mass Effect 1." Really? You mean grinding? You don't need to reach level 60 in ME1 you know. It's optional.[/quote]
Not if you want the best import bonus going into ME2. With that import bonus (and/or Long Service achievement), ME2 takes one playthrough to get the maximum level with your character. After that, you can play the even harder version with New Game+ without any upgrades on Insanity or play another class.
[quote]"The major timesink in Mass Effect 2, planet-scanning, can be avoided entirely with import bonuses if you want your entire squad to survive with the 3 Normandy upgrades. None of the upgrades are required to complete the game, after all - and it actually ups the difficulty on Insanity without them."
No. You cannot avoid that. I have imported level 60 characters and I still needed to scan for platinum often.[/quote]
To upgrade the Normandy's weapons, armor and guns? I don't think so. You have enough to buy those 3 Normandy upgrades and complete the entire game without ever having to touch the upgrade screen again - unless you want Heavy Weapons, of course. If having no upgrades is hard on Insanity, think of it as Insanity Plus - it's fun that way.
Planet scanning is optional. You don't need it.
You suggest that I lack memory or gaming skills, but you seem to have forgotten everything that was wrong about Mass Effect 1 and put on your rose-colored glasses to describe it here. And if you think I'm only capable of writing a troll list, I can write a term paper discussing why people shouldn't complain about all the improvements from ME1 to ME2. I'm quite good at writing term papers (and long lab reports) anyway.
BioWare has drastically simplified the game while retaining some RPG elements in Mass Effect 2. There's no reason that it will change back even more when the same gameplay team is going to be working on Mass Effect 3. They did, however, say they will try to make it more RPG than ME2.
BioWare will have to blatantly screw up if Mass Effect 3 is not an improvement from BOTH of the games before it.
[quote]Immersion is what makes you feel you're Shepard. An elevator is nothing more than a loading screen, but you stay in the game. Really, the same story was told, that is true, but how many times have you seen the same loading screen ? The problem is easy : loading screen is something people are used to. They don't complain. Elevators, they didn't understand. It might be the majority, but should it mean the majority's right for this ?[/quote]
Whether or not they want to please the majority, all elevators did was add a little more dialogue to the game - not all elevators had dialogue, after all.
The elevators without loading screens were completely taken out of Mass Effect 2 both because it extended loading times AND glitched for a lot of people playing the game.
[quote]Immersion is what makes you feel you're Shepard. An elevator is nothing more than a loading screen, but you stay in the game. Really, the same story was told, that is true, but how many times have you seen the same loading screen ? The problem is easy : loading screen is something people are used to. They don't complain. Elevators, they didn't understand. It might be the majority, but should it mean the majority's right for this ?[/quote]
Mass Effect is not open-ended. Neither 1 or 2 is, and 3 definitely won't be. Oblivion and Fallout 3 are much more sandbox oriented, causing the actual storyline to suffer. The Elder Scrolls and Fallout series don't even continue the main plot with each game.
[quote]Great game includes exploration and immersion. If you're the type of player who always wants to go quicker and quicker in a game, not appreciating any moment of it when you don't have to kill an ennemy, you have to play games like Crysis because they're damn good shooters.[/quote]
There are three things that make Mass Effect great:
1. RPG/Shooter hybrid gameplay (yes, ME2 still has this)
2. Dialogue and continuous storyline
3. Character development
All three things are still in ME2. I don't need to roam empty planets with a useless vehicle or watch an slow elevator (Why are elevators slow in the future? This is more story-breaking than heat sinks).
Edit: Changed a couple of typos and some mistakes.[/quote]
That's quite possibly the longest response I've received to any of my arguments. Now for the longest response to my responses.
[quote]"-Driving the Mako in main missions before realizing that ignoring enemies is faster (like Ilos Trench Run)"
ME2 got this other flaw that's equally nuts: In some locations enemies keep spawning, until you realize that if you can ignore them by working your way to another location.[/quote]
True. That's a flaw encouraged by the mission XP-only system in ME2. If we could go back to a kill-based or hybrid objective-kill XP system, then that problem could fix itself. In the meantime, I either bunker down and try to beat the those seemingly impossible odds (they do end eventually), or I rush through it depending on my class (Tactical Cloak/Biotic Charge/Tech Armor works well for those areas).
[quote]"-Driving the Mako on empty, mountanous terrain for almost every planet"
That was boring. ME2 also becomes boring with its fixed routes. There is no open terrain.[/quote]
Open terrain is only useful if there's stuff on it. A herd of Shifty Looking Cows and a (fixed) base here and there shouldn't be the only thing sitting on a planet. The missions in Mass Effect 2, while linear, all have unique level designs and every main mission has its own dynamic soundtrack (the OST has a song for every non-DLC character). Even the N7 missions, albeit having no dialogue, are not pregenerated bases.
"Exploring" in Mass Effect 1 was like reading a blank piece of paper with only the page number on it.
[quote]"-Having to run/drive back to where you started after completing a quest"
You could open the map and select "Return to the Normandy". There was even a hotkey for that.[/quote]
I wasn't referring to being outside with the Mako. Every time you clear out a base inside for a side quest, you have to run back. With Feros and Noveria, you have to drive back with the Mako or run back to the transit station. Even when you return to the Normandy from the Mako or from outside, you get a loading screen, just like you would in ME2. Why doesn't anyone complain about how immersion breaking that loading screen was?
One of the only quests that actually utilized the ME2 "return outside" sequence is the Corporal Toombs quest. That should have been available for every mission.
[quote]"-Ridiculously slow elevators"
It was used to hide loading. It at least gave you news messages or conversations between squad mates. In ME2 you have abstract loading screens instead.[/quote]
Judging by how fast loading screens go by ME2 on my budget Dell Inspiron (and the fact that there's still a 'Loading' sign in the elevators in ME1), I'd take ME2's loading screens any day. Not to mention there are still other loading screens in ME1 (see pictures from my last post).
You still get lots of dialogue from the selectable boxes in hub cities, as well as bringing squadmates to certain areas (a lot of it is hidden because of the forced linearity that was caused by the XBox 360 2-disc switch). Those dialogues are no more generic than Mass Effect 1's:
[quote]"-Getting stuck in said ridiculously slow elevators and having to restart"
I never encountered that bug. In ME2 you get stuck during fights for no reason at all. You have to reload and try again.[/quote]
http://www.youtube.c...od4uzKE#t=4m10s
Playing Mass Effect on the PC, getting stuck in the elevators happened often, especially in Noveria. It's probably why they did away with elevators entirely (replacing everything with loading screens AND ramps/stairs). I had to quick save before and after getting on an elevator just because of that.
Getting stuck in the air in ME2 was also annoying as hell, but if it happened in a safe area you can still manuever your way down.
[quote]"-Having to restart from a point one hour ago because the game hardly autosaves"
Huh? Try saving a game. It will only take you a couple seconds. The critique about ME1 saved games was not that they were not there, it was that they were made at the wrong position. Example: If there was a cut scene and a fight then the auto save was made before the cut scene and not before the fight.[/quote]
Like I said, I did quicksave often because of the biotic-death bug and elevator glitch bug. In ME1, that was a pain since it pauses the game to save. ME2 fixed that.
[quote]"-Unskippable cutscenes of the Normandy or the Mako landing"
You have a very bad memory. The unskippable cutscenes were actually used to hide loading. I rather have a cutscene than an abstract loading screen.
ME1 steps to land on Citadel:
1) Select star system
2) Cut scene
3) Select Citadel
4) Cut scene
5) Walk from bridge to exit (and do something else before exiting)
6) Select crew
7) Cut scene
M2 steps to land on Citadel
1) Select star system
2) Cut scene
3) Select Citadel
4) Cut scene
5) Loading screen
6) Select crew
7) Cut scene
How is ME2 any better? Especially steps 4, 5, 6 and 7 in ME2 don't make any sense. In ME1's step 5 you actually felt that the ship has landed. You could prepare yourself to enter the planet/station. Also note that any decision in ME1 had a confirmation that allowed you to cancel the action. In ME2 there is no such thing and you have to continue from 1 through 7.
"-Loading screens, even with the elevators in place (Citadel Rapid Transit and pre-game Load)"
About the rapid transit: I saw loading screens in both ME1 and ME2. About the ME1 elevators: Loading was hidden during the ride. I don't see your point. Maybe you have a very slow system in which loading takes longer than the ride? Time to upgrade your computer if so. The Citadel in ME1 was divided in sections connected by elevators. The Citadel in ME2 was divided in sections connected by corridors or stairs. Sections like the Factory District and the Presidium could only be reached by rapid transfer and a loading screen. How is that any better?[/quote]
Ever try doing the Zabaleta quest as a Spacer? Getting to the furthest part of the ME1 Citadel (Wards Access) and back to the Normandy SR-1 was much more time-consuming than getting to the furthest part of the Citadel in ME2 and back to the Normandy SR-2. You can't accurately describe it in a list unless you list everything that slows you down.
ME1, Normandy at Mass Relay -> Citadel -> Wards Access -> Back to Normandy Galaxy Map
1) Mass Relay CGI cutscene
2) Click Citadel, Dock
3A) Undocking cutscene from other city OR
3B) LOADING (Normandy traveling screen)
4) Landing Cutscene, unskippable
5) Run to airlock
6) LOADING (Picture of Mass Relay screen), Select Crew screen
7) Elevator, unskippable
8) Citadel Rapid Transit to Wards Access entrance in Presidium
9) LOADING (Picture of Citadel)
10) Run to Wards Access Elevator
11) Elevator, unskippable
12) Wards Access, at Zabaleta
13) Elevator, unskippable
14) Run to Citadel Rapid Transit back to C-Sec
15) LOADING (Picture of Citadel)
16) Elevator, unskippable
17) Normandy -> Decontamination in progress
18) At Galaxy Map
*Stopwatch Timer: 7 minutes, 23 seconds*
Elevators used: 4 times
Loading screens: 4 times (and does NOT include the 4 short 'LOADING' boxes each time elevator was used)
Pauses to autosave: 4 times
ME2, Normandy at Mass Relay -> Citadel -> Back of Dark Star Lounge -> Back to Normandy Galaxy Map
1) Mass Relay CGI cutscene
2) Hover over to Citadel, Dock
3) Landing Cutscene, skipped
4) LOADING (Normandy schematic screen), Select Crew screen
5) Shuttle Cutscene, skipped
6) Citadel Rapid Transit to Level 28
7) LOADING (Weird spinning lock screen)
8) Run to Dark Star Lounge, back
9) Run to Citadel Rapid Transit
10) Citadel Rapid Transit to Normandy
11) LOADING (Another weird Normandy screen)
12) At Galaxy Map
*Stopwatch Timer: 2 minutes, 55 seconds*
Elevators used: 0
Loading screens: 3 times
Pauses to autosave: 0
Takes more than twice as long to finish up a simple side quest and get back to the Normandy in ME1 as it did in ME2. You say I have a bad memory, but I sure didn't forget the extra loading screens in ME1.
[quote]"-Decontamination in progress. Stand by. Decontamination in progress."
It was used to hide a loading screen.[/quote]
Then why is there a loading screen with a picture of a Mass Relay after selecting the crew in the airlock? Or a short "fade to black" sequence when re-entering the Normandy?
[quote]"-Having to play the game 3 times over with one character in order to reach the highest level of tedium"
In ME1 reaching level 57 required you to do everything. You could reach level 58 if you played for maximum experience points. I.e. kill enemies outdoors on foot, etc. In ME2 I can reach its maximum level 30 long
before doing the final mission. Is that any better?[/quote]
You forgot the fact that Level 51-60 does not unlock until you get the Level 50 achievement. Also, maxing out your level in two playthroughs afterward is actually longer - getting out repeatedly to get the killing blow for more XP, decrypting everything in sight and doing every side quest (and even the extremely tedious mineral/artifact collection quests) made Mass Effect 1 unnecessarily long.
Yes, ME2 is better because there are 6 classes that I want to play to Level 30, and I don't want to have to replay it several times just to get the best importable character.
[quote]"-Having to play the game 5+ times over with one character in order to get the most skill points"
Sorry. Try improve your gaming skills. Reaching level 60 is doable in 2 playthroughs.[/quote]
I said to GET THE MOST SKILL POINTS. Getting the max skill points requires several playthroughs because you CANNOT put points in Charm or Intimidate to do so. You gain 1 point in Charm/Intimidate for becoming a Spectre, and then three more for filling up the Paragon or Renegade bar. There are *12* points in each bar to fill up. Your first two playthroughs make it almost impossible to fill up both bars each playthrough (unless you exploit certain bugs), and the next few playthroughs require you to choose extremely carefully in order to fill both up.
Note that this is well before BioWare said that your Paragon/Renegade carries over and not your Charm or Intimidate skill points. If I knew that, I could have just stopped playing upon finishing at Level 60.
[quote]"-Immediately dying after getting knocked out of the terrain/level by biotics instead of getting back up"
I never saw this to be a problem. It's often avoidable by staying at a distance. But I remember a flame throwing vorcha in ME2 which was hard to kill as well. Had to reload a lot to get passed him. He was around a corner and he stood near a cover at that corner. Surviving that was defeating the random number generator. How is that better?[/quote]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-2LSGPXWS8
The flamethrower Vorcha on the left-side door of Garrus' recruitment mission can be avoided by sending your squadmates in the corner first. Even if you stay at a distance in Mass Effect 1, there's no guarantee that you'll get hit by a biotic to stick you into a grate or the cover you're trying to get behind.
[quote]"-Realizing that you only actually have 4 different weapons with different textures and accuracy"
In ME2 some classes only have 2 and allow a bonus weapon later on. You upgrade and use the best one of each type. How's that any better?[/quote]
Every single weapon behaves differently against certain armor types. Depending on your class, you're switching weapons often - especially if you use Heavy Weapons, which are all unique.
[quote]"-Only using one of those 4 weapons depending on your class"
That's cute. In ME2 you can shoot with 2 weapons at the same time? In ME1 there were even hotkeys to switch between weapons. In ME2 you need to HUD to change weapons or use weapon next/previous
hotkeys. Or maybe I don't get it. Hmmm.[/quote]
BioWare failed at putting hotkeys in ME2 because they were the ones porting the game to the PC this time (Demiurge Studios ported ME1). It's something they need to fix, yes.
Still, there are far more unique weapons in ME2 than ME1.
[quote]"-Having to sort through your inventory of items to figure out what is actually useful"
At least you could figure out which items were useful by comparing what was equipped. Even at shops you could compare stuff. Was that too hard for you? In ME2 there is not that allows you to do that. Is that better?[/quote]
You don't need to compare anything because they made it quite clear which gun or upgrade was better for the situation. That way, you don't spend time deciding to upgrade something to I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, or X just because you found a different armor/ammo mod that seems a little better than the one before.
[quote]"-Having to sell your inventory of completely useless items after every mission"
Yes. Too much loot. Agreed. Less loot would solve the problem. Instead they have removed the inventory (which allows you to access your stuff any time) for a complex system of devices which are located in the lab, armory and your cabin. BTW... The armory is also scattered throughout the galaxy and can be found anywhere from a Blue Sun's hideout to the Collector's base. All are magically connected to the Normandy to access your stuff. How's that better?[/quote]
Better than Shepard carrying 150 weapons, mods and armor in his magic clown-car pockets?
[quote]"-Having to omni-gel your inventory of completely useless items after hitting the credit cap"
It was also used to repair the Mako or to bypass mini-games. Very handy.[/quote]
You still had to spam the Omni-gel button from the massive amount of cluttering items (Inventory limit at 150? Really?) you get just from killing stuff. It's not worth bypassing the mini-games for.
[quote]"-Having to repeatedly exchange armor and armor mods with a slightly newer version of itself"
The same thing happens in ME2. Only now it is more complicated than selecting it from your inventory. In ME2 you have to find research plans, scan enough resources, go to the lab, select the upgrade. Some upgrades require other upgrades (that need the same thing to be repeated) and some weapons cannot be manufactured without those upgrades. How's that any better?[/quote]
Even without certain heavy weapons, there's still a wide selection of unique weapons that you get automatically at the start of the game. And it's not like you start Mass Effect 1 with a HWMP X or a Geth Pulse Rifle. Instead, you have to wait you're a high level enough that the armor or weapon you need actually drops, or you have to purchase their specific license and repeatedly check certain merchants for restock.
That, by far, is much more tedious than the inventory system. Of course, Shepard is the only one who has tweakable armor now, but it would be nice if the others wore armor we chose.
[quote]"-Having to switch between Tungsten/Shredder ammo between enemy types (for each squadmate)"
Takes a couple of clicks. But, yeah, ME2 allows you to select the ammo of the squad in one go, but only if you have level 4 squad ammo. However... Why is ammo a skill? And why is shooting a weapon not? And why does your
ammo skill affect other squad members?[/quote]
Why do we even need ammo at all? You'd think that with the heat sink system they tried to retcon in Mass Effect 2, they could have assumed the best ammo was being used in each gun in ME1 to begin with - after all, they don't even need to reload.
Also, if each squad member has their own separate ammo, it takes three clicks in the pause menu to load them all up. For Mass Effect 1, you have to go to each character's page and double click-click-click in order to load up their required ammo.
The shortcut failures in Mass Effect 2 are more directed towards the lack of PC shortcut keys and single clicks to get to each menu (which they definitely need to fix).
[quote]"-Spending a minute firing at a krogan spamming Immunity even with the weapon/ammo mods, and then another minute if Warp or some other skill doesn't hit him right as he dies"
We now have the flame throwing vorcha. They are fun too.
[/quote]Do you run up to Vorcha to melee them or what? Making a Krogan take a minute to die while he's pinned to the ground with biotic/tech ability-spam doesn't increase the difficulty. Getting punished and dying for getting too close to those same Krogan or a flamethrower Vorcha does increase the difficulty a little bit.
[quote]"-Mineral, relic and artifact scanning and collection quests"
Optional mission. You didn't need to do those. Complaints like this one caused the new fabulous scanning system. Thank you.[/quote]
Scanning system is also optional (read last few paragraphs). No one's forcing you to scan before every single mission like driving the Mako was required before every mission.
[quote]"Almost every single one of those timesinks - except the last few - are unavoidable in completing Mass Effect 1." Really? You mean grinding? You don't need to reach level 60 in ME1 you know. It's optional.[/quote]
Not if you want the best import bonus going into ME2. With that import bonus (and/or Long Service achievement), ME2 takes one playthrough to get the maximum level with your character. After that, you can play the even harder version with New Game+ without any upgrades on Insanity or play another class.
[quote]"The major timesink in Mass Effect 2, planet-scanning, can be avoided entirely with import bonuses if you want your entire squad to survive with the 3 Normandy upgrades. None of the upgrades are required to complete the game, after all - and it actually ups the difficulty on Insanity without them."
No. You cannot avoid that. I have imported level 60 characters and I still needed to scan for platinum often.[/quote]
To upgrade the Normandy's weapons, armor and guns? I don't think so. You have enough to buy those 3 Normandy upgrades and complete the entire game without ever having to touch the upgrade screen again - unless you want Heavy Weapons, of course. If having no upgrades is hard on Insanity, think of it as Insanity Plus - it's fun that way.
Planet scanning is optional. You don't need it.
You suggest that I lack memory or gaming skills, but you seem to have forgotten everything that was wrong about Mass Effect 1 and put on your rose-colored glasses to describe it here. And if you think I'm only capable of writing a troll list, I can write a term paper discussing why people shouldn't complain about all the improvements from ME1 to ME2. I'm quite good at writing term papers (and long lab reports) anyway.
BioWare has drastically simplified the game while retaining some RPG elements in Mass Effect 2. There's no reason that it will change back even more when the same gameplay team is going to be working on Mass Effect 3. They did, however, say they will try to make it more RPG than ME2.
BioWare will have to blatantly screw up if Mass Effect 3 is not an improvement from BOTH of the games before it.
[quote]Immersion is what makes you feel you're Shepard. An elevator is nothing more than a loading screen, but you stay in the game. Really, the same story was told, that is true, but how many times have you seen the same loading screen ? The problem is easy : loading screen is something people are used to. They don't complain. Elevators, they didn't understand. It might be the majority, but should it mean the majority's right for this ?[/quote]
Whether or not they want to please the majority, all elevators did was add a little more dialogue to the game - not all elevators had dialogue, after all.
The elevators without loading screens were completely taken out of Mass Effect 2 both because it extended loading times AND glitched for a lot of people playing the game.
[quote]Immersion is what makes you feel you're Shepard. An elevator is nothing more than a loading screen, but you stay in the game. Really, the same story was told, that is true, but how many times have you seen the same loading screen ? The problem is easy : loading screen is something people are used to. They don't complain. Elevators, they didn't understand. It might be the majority, but should it mean the majority's right for this ?[/quote]
Mass Effect is not open-ended. Neither 1 or 2 is, and 3 definitely won't be. Oblivion and Fallout 3 are much more sandbox oriented, causing the actual storyline to suffer. The Elder Scrolls and Fallout series don't even continue the main plot with each game.
[quote]Great game includes exploration and immersion. If you're the type of player who always wants to go quicker and quicker in a game, not appreciating any moment of it when you don't have to kill an ennemy, you have to play games like Crysis because they're damn good shooters.[/quote]
There are three things that make Mass Effect great:
1. RPG/Shooter hybrid gameplay (yes, ME2 still has this)
2. Dialogue and continuous storyline
3. Character development
All three things are still in ME2. I don't need to roam empty planets with a useless vehicle or watch an slow elevator (Why are elevators slow in the future? This is more story-breaking than heat sinks).
Modifié par Ecael, 22 mars 2010 - 11:59 .
#40
Posté 22 mars 2010 - 11:59
TJSolo
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How can you be so hypocritical and act as getting level60 in ME1 is mandatory or a detriment and at the same time claim planet scanning is optional.
Most of you statements on ME1 vs ME2 are complete hypocrisy.
Most of you statements on ME1 vs ME2 are complete hypocrisy.
#41
Posté 23 mars 2010 - 12:01
Ecael
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Thanks for the short answer to my essay. It didn't further anyone's argument much.TJSolo wrote...
How can you be so hypocritical and act as getting level60 in ME1 is mandatory or a detriment and at the same time claim planet scanning is optional.
Most of you statements on ME1 vs ME2 are complete hypocrisy.
Level 60 carries over to ME2.
Upgrades you get from planet-scanning won't carry over in ME3 (they don't even carry over in ME2!)
Modifié par Ecael, 23 mars 2010 - 12:01 .
#42
Posté 23 mars 2010 - 12:04
DarthCaine
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Don't you people grow tired of writing such long texts and trying to convince each other ?
#43
Posté 23 mars 2010 - 12:06
Ecael
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Well, I guess there's really no point in arguing - Mass Effect 3 is going to be much more like Mass Effect 2 anyway, so I don't need to worry.DarthCaine wrote...
Don't you people grow tired of writing such long texts and trying to convince each other ?
I'll probably keep my texts for further use since these kinds of threads come up too often.
Modifié par Ecael, 23 mars 2010 - 12:06 .
#44
Posté 23 mars 2010 - 12:06
TJSolo
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I read you mountain of a reply; it is a bad argument based on hypocrisy and bad understanding in most cases. There isn't a reason for me to reply to each line it has already been done and you still come back with half-truths and biased views. So I am not going to get into a circular debate with you.
Well without there being a ME3 your claims of upgrades not carrying over is inaccurate.
Well without there being a ME3 your claims of upgrades not carrying over is inaccurate.
#45
Posté 23 mars 2010 - 12:12
Ecael
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So you'll just say I'm wrong instead of proving me wrong (and I will admit fault for that if you do)? Hard to point out hypocrisy in my arguments when that's exactly what I'm trying to do to the other posts/comparisons.TJSolo wrote...
I read you mountain of a reply; it is a bad argument based on hypocrisy and bad understanding in most cases. There isn't a reason for me to reply to each line it has already been done and you still come back with half-truths and biased views. So I am not going to get into a circular debate with you.
Well without there being a ME3 your claims of upgrades not carrying over is inaccurate.
Like I said, that doesn't help your argument. And when Mass Effect 3 is released in 2012, it'll prove everything I argued for and against.
#46
Posté 23 mars 2010 - 12:17
Masticetobbacco
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Mass effect 2 graphically superior to Mass effect 1. Better combat system, more detailed missions.
Mass effect had a better story, ME2 was pretty much: get your squad, GTFO to the mass relay
Mass effect had a better story, ME2 was pretty much: get your squad, GTFO to the mass relay
#47
Posté 23 mars 2010 - 12:20
Ecael
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I will agree on that - Mass Effect 1 had a better main storyline.Masticetobbacco wrote...
Mass effect 2 graphically superior to Mass effect 1. Better combat system, more detailed missions.
Mass effect had a better story, ME2 was pretty much: get your squad, GTFO to the mass relay
Mass Effect 2's character-focused storyline will be useless if some or most of those characters don't return to play major roles.
#48
Posté 23 mars 2010 - 12:24
Collider
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Pfft. Ecael has great points. It's a matter of opinion whether ME1 was better than ME2, but I think Ecael defended ME2 very nicely and logically.
#49
Posté 23 mars 2010 - 12:40
TJSolo
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My response about ME3 was only in regards to this:
"Upgrades you get from planet-scanning won't carry over in ME3 (they don't even carry over in ME2!)"
Your statement is a bit to fortune-telly.
Like I said some of your facts are wrong; there are more unique weapons in ME1
Not even counting the I-X iterations.
I really am not feeling like getting into this. All I have to say is for those that think ME2 is missing substance that was in ME1 have a point.
"Upgrades you get from planet-scanning won't carry over in ME3 (they don't even carry over in ME2!)"
Your statement is a bit to fortune-telly.
Like I said some of your facts are wrong; there are more unique weapons in ME1
Not even counting the I-X iterations.
From http://social.biowar...index/1655022/5
ME1
- 10 Pistols
- 12 Assault Rifles
- 10 Shotguns
- 10 Sniper Rifles
Total = 42 unique weapons
ME2
- 2 Heavy Pistols
- 5 Assault Rifles
- 4 Shotguns
- 4 Sniper Rifles
- 2 Submachine Guns
Total = 17 Unique Weapons
I really am not feeling like getting into this. All I have to say is for those that think ME2 is missing substance that was in ME1 have a point.
#50
Posté 23 mars 2010 - 12:42
DarthCaine
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- Members
- 7 175 messages
IMO ME1 had like 5 unique weapons since they all sounded and acted the same and only had a different texture (and a bunch of roman numerals to make you think they're any different)
