153 réponses à ce sujet

[dan107]

Am I the only one who thought it was ridiculous that my character would kneel before his own wife? Especially with Anders standing tall next to him? The act of kneeling before someone is a stronger statement than just about any line of dialogue; there is absolutely no way that the character should do something like that without player input.

When I, as a player, am looking at a character that's supposed to be my avatar in the game world and going "WHY THE F*CK IS HE DOING THAT?!" that's not an example of good game design IMO.

Modifié par dan107, 22 mars 2010 - 04:21 .

[Thalorin1919]

Well...technically she is the Queen. You're just her...well...husband.





I'm sure you're not the first. I'm sure there have been many times where Queens kneel before there Kings, and vice versa.

[Bitterfoam]

You're the Prince-Consort to the Queen of Ferelden. You're not Ferelden's King, which more or less implies that you're not her equal.



As such, kneeling would be the proper form of respect.



Makes sense to me.

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Well, do you really want the distraction of being considered as King to haunt you the whole game? Can you imagine all the arguments of you being left behind if it were known?

So perhaps your character is smart enough to keep up the ruse or perhaps it is nice to show your wife some extra respect from time to time.

EDIT: Bitterfoam makes an excellent point. You're not the king, prince wannabe.

Modifié par DeathWyrmNexus, 22 mars 2010 - 04:24 .

[errant_knight]

Because the same animation is used for all the possibilities: warden, spouse, lover, chancellor, friend. Besides, it's not inconcievable that a medieval consort would show the ruler that kind of respect in public. You aren't their equal as they are the actual ruler.

Modifié par errant_knight, 22 mars 2010 - 04:27 .

[dan107]

I don't really care if I'm a castless dwarf, such an act of total submission to another's authority is just not something that my character should do without my input, period. The fact that he's kneeling before his WIFE makes it even more ridiculous, but that's really secondary to the issue. And the fact that Anders is standing straight next to him just adds insult to injury.

I remember in Jade Empire there was an option to kneel or not kneel before the princess. Why couldn't we have that here as well?

Modifié par dan107, 22 mars 2010 - 04:32 .

[Whitering]

I've knelt before my girlfriend many times...

[Bitterfoam]

Anders is not a subject of the crown. You are, even if you don't think your character should be. By opting to take control of the Arling of Amaranthine and use it to rebuild the Grey Wardens in Ferelden, you become a member of diplomacy in Ferelden. And, as such, you are a subject of the crown. The King or Queen of Ferelden is your liege-lord / liege-lady.

[amrose2]

dan107 wrote...

I don't really care if I'm a castless dwarf, such an act of total submission to another's authority is just not something that my character should do without my input, period. The fact that he's kneeling before his WIFE makes it even more ridiculous, but that's really secondary to the issue. And the fact that Anders is standing straight next to him just adds insult to injury.

I remember in Jade Empire there was an option to kneel or not kneel before the princess. Why couldn't we have that here as well?

I'm willing to cut them some slack on this one, it seems like a minor oversight. In a game with so many options and dialogues it's inevitable that something will slip through the cracks.

[Malastrail]

You are trying to unite Ferelden under the Queen and by kneeling you acknowledge her authority as ruler. Also it shows the people around you that you support her as such and to show defiance would undermine her authority at a very delicate time.

Modifié par Malastrail, 22 mars 2010 - 04:37 .

[errant_knight]

dan107 wrote...

I don't really care if I'm a castless dwarf, such an act of total submission to another's authority is just not something that my character should do without my input, period. The fact that he's kneeling before his WIFE, makes it even more ridiculous, but that's really secondary to the issue. And the fact that Anders is standing straight next to him just adds insult to injury.

I remember in Jade Empire there was an option to kneel or not kneel before the princess. Why couldn't we have that here as well?

You're acting like this isn't a medieval kingdom. Kneeling was a common and expected show of respect. The only thin odd about it was that Anders wasn't kneeling, but perhaps Alistair doesn't go for forcing shows of respect. It says something about Anders. though.

Bitterfoam wrote...

Anders is not a subject of the crown. You are, even if you don't think your character should be. By opting to take control of the Arling of Amaranthine and use it to rebuild the Grey Wardens in Ferelden, you become a member of diplomacy in Ferelden. And, as such, you are a subject of the crown. The King or Queen of Ferelden is your liege-lord / liege-lady.

That's true. He isn't technically under the rule of the King/Queen, although as a human inhabitant of Fereldan, I think he should at least have bowed his head as a gesture of respect.

Modifié par errant_knight, 22 mars 2010 - 04:42 .

[casedawgz]

amrose2 wrote...

dan107 wrote...

I don't really care if I'm a castless dwarf, such an act of total submission to another's authority is just not something that my character should do without my input, period. The fact that he's kneeling before his WIFE makes it even more ridiculous, but that's really secondary to the issue. And the fact that Anders is standing straight next to him just adds insult to injury.

I remember in Jade Empire there was an option to kneel or not kneel before the princess. Why couldn't we have that here as well?

I'm willing to cut them some slack on this one, it seems like a minor oversight. In a game with so many options and dialogues it's inevitable that something will slip through the cracks.

Microsoft Sam slipped through the cracks. After that, I'm much less forgiving.

[Sarah1281]

Yeah, you aren't currently serving in your role as prince-consort but as Arl of Amaranthine and Arls kneel before Queens. Kind of annoying how no one else felt the need to but what can you do. Did the Seneschal or Mhairi kneel? They were really much more obligated than Anders or Oghren. Although he just came off of being big in the army so why he didn't is kind of a mystery.

[AuraofMana]

Anora deserves no respect :/

[Lycidas]

This post makes me want to

[Patriciachr34]

When it comes to royalty, public actions require certain protocols. When Anora arrives, you are not her spouse. You are the Warden Commander and she is the Queen of Ferelden. As the Warden Commander you must publicly acknowedge your fealty to the Queen, hence the bow.

[errant_knight]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Yeah, you aren't currently serving in your role as prince-consort but as Arl of Amaranthine and Arls kneel before Queens. Kind of annoying how no one else felt the need to but what can you do. Did the Seneschal or Mhairi kneel? They were really much more obligated than Anders or Oghren. Although he just came off of being big in the army so why he didn't is kind of a mystery.

Yes, they knelt. Oghren isn't obliged to, being a dwarf and not under crown rule.

[dan107]

Everybody that's posting about how it's a matter of protocol or whatnot -- you're missing my point. You're listing reasons for why you think it's appropriate, and why your character would do it. I'm not going to argue with that, since it's a matter of opinion.

What pisses me off is that my character is forced to do it, even though I don't want to. How would you like it if your goody-two-shoes obedient to the crown character all of a sudden flipped her the bird and walked off without your input? Kneeling is as big a jesture as that, and it's not something that should be done automatically.

Lycidas wrote...

This post makes me want to

I always wondered about people like you. If you see a thread you're not interested in, doesn't it make more sense to just move on to something else? Why take the time to post something like this? Does copying and pasting the same image that has been posted thousands of times before, without a shred of originality, really make you feel witty or clever?

Modifié par dan107, 22 mars 2010 - 04:56 .

[SurelyForth]

The whole scene is pretty awkward, I thought. Our PC's don't even kneel to Cailan, they just bow.



Varel kneels once he sees you are, and Mhairi kneels once she realizes it's the king/queen. I imagine Anders doesn't either because he doesn't feel obligated, being a Circle Mage, or because he's more concerned about Rylock at that point.

[Patriciachr34]

[quote]dan107 wrote...

Everybody that's posting about how it's a matter of protocol or whatnot -- you're missing my point. You're listing reasons for why you think it's appropriate, and why your character would do it. I'm not going to argue with that, since it's a matter of opinion.

What pisses me off is that my character is forced to do it, even though I don't want to. How would you like it if your goody-two-shoes obedient to the crown character all of a sudden flipped her the bird and walked off without your input? Kneeling is as big a jesture as that, and it's not something that should be done automatically.



Your character would do it as a mtter of protocol.  As an Arl and commander duty dictates the action.  As a Ferelden, duty supercedes personal feelings.  This isn't Amercia friend.  This is a feudal society where ignoring these protocals could get your head put on a pike. So, to keep your head (literally) you would bow before the Queen.

[Vicious]

I found it very odd that we kneel to Anora/Alistair but we didn't for Cailan.



It really just pissed me off.

[Bitterfoam]

dan107 wrote...

Everybody that's posting about how it's a matter of protocol or whatnot -- you're missing my point. You're listing reasons for why you think it's appropriate, and why your character would do it. I'm not going to argue with that, since it's a matter of opinion.

What pisses me off is that my character is forced to do it, even though I don't want to. How would you like it if your goody-two-shoes obedient to the crown character all of a sudden flipped her the bird and walked off without your input? Kneeling is as big a jesture as that, and it's not something that should be done automatically.

Wow. Get over it.

While kneeling might be as big a gesture as you described, it isn't even remotely in the same context. If Alistair/Anora showed up and immediately demanded the main character to cut Varel's head off for letting the keep get attacked by darkspawn, and to also kill Mhairi, Oghren, Anders, the templars with him, and then hop on one foot and cluck like a chicken - y'know, in that case, I might agree with you that kneeling is a bit inappropriate.

Your character has been named a vassal of Alistair or Anora, one (as the Arl of Amaranthine), and is a member of the Grey Wardens in a position of power and representing them as such. You're a member of the diplomatic corps, for all intents, of Ferelden. And as such, you kneel to the king or queen.

It isn't justification for why it's appropriate to my character, or any character. It's why you do it. These are completely different reasons and definitions. Even "evil" characters can't get out of the position they're placed into. The only character who would get out of that position is a spoiled brat, at which point he/she probably wouldn't be the Arl of Amaranthine. Title stripped, all that.

[NugWrangler]

I thought it was a bit strange too, mostly because nobody else kneeled or even recognized right away that Alistair/Anora was the ruler of Fereldan. Since my Cousland has been calling the shots in the relationship from day one, I did think it would have been out of character for her to kneel to Al unless it was a formal event. Al didn't even stay for my coronation as Arl. I don't see why a Dalish character would feel the need to kneel either. But, it's such a tiny thing that it doesn't bother me much.

[dan107]

Bitterfoam wrote...
While kneeling might be as big a gesture as you described, it isn't even remotely in the same context. If Alistair/Anora showed up and immediately demanded the main character to cut Varel's head off for letting the keep get attacked by darkspawn, and to also kill Mhairi, Oghren, Anders, the templars with him, and then hop on one foot and cluck like a chicken - y'know, in that case, I might agree with you that kneeling is a bit inappropriate.

Your character has been named a vassal of Alistair or Anora, one (as the Arl of Amaranthine), and is a member of the Grey Wardens in a position of power and representing them as such. You're a member of the diplomatic corps, for all intents, of Ferelden. And as such, you kneel to the king or queen.

It isn't justification for why it's appropriate to my character, or any character. It's why you do it. These are completely different reasons and definitions. Even "evil" characters can't get out of the position they're placed into. The only character who would get out of that position is a spoiled brat, at which point he/she probably wouldn't be the Arl of Amaranthine. Title stripped, all that.

Again, you're just restating your opinion for why kneeling is appropriate. I could write a retort explaining why I think that it isn't, but that's pointless since we're not going agree on a matter of personal opinion. You're still missing my point which is that meaningful actions by the character should not be separated from decisions by the player. The fact that you or I happen to agree or disagree with the specific action in this instance is largely irrelevant.

[errant_knight]

dan107 wrote...

Bitterfoam wrote...
While kneeling might be as big a gesture as you described, it isn't even remotely in the same context. If Alistair/Anora showed up and immediately demanded the main character to cut Varel's head off for letting the keep get attacked by darkspawn, and to also kill Mhairi, Oghren, Anders, the templars with him, and then hop on one foot and cluck like a chicken - y'know, in that case, I might agree with you that kneeling is a bit inappropriate.

Your character has been named a vassal of Alistair or Anora, one (as the Arl of Amaranthine), and is a member of the Grey Wardens in a position of power and representing them as such. You're a member of the diplomatic corps, for all intents, of Ferelden. And as such, you kneel to the king or queen.

It isn't justification for why it's appropriate to my character, or any character. It's why you do it. These are completely different reasons and definitions. Even "evil" characters can't get out of the position they're placed into. The only character who would get out of that position is a spoiled brat, at which point he/she probably wouldn't be the Arl of Amaranthine. Title stripped, all that.

Again, you're just restating your opinion for why kneeling is appropriate. I could write a retort explaining why I think that it isn't, but that's pointless since we're not going agree on a matter of personal opinion. You're still missing my point which is that meaningful actions by the character should not be separated from decisions by the player. The fact that you or I happen to agree or disagree with the specific action in this instance is largely irrelevant.

If you don't kneel, you're rejecting fealty. You're basically challenging the ruler. Husband, wife, or not, their only option would be to have you locked up as Anora can be, thus ending the game. You could have that choice, but it would be kind of pointless. The scenario if Awakening really doesn't allow for open rebellion against the crown.

Modifié par errant_knight, 22 mars 2010 - 05:47 .