153 réponses à ce sujet

[errant_knight]

Patriciachr34 wrote...

I think we also should consider context in this circumstance.
1. Anora/Alistair is there to formally recognize and insert the new Arl/Arlessa.
2. This particular Arling was home of the notorious Arl Howe who was instrumental in many crimes against Ferelden nobility and the crown itself.
As such it is fitting that the new commander/Arl of Amaranthine publicly show fealty to the crown.
As for King Cailin, his appearance was unexpected and not intended to be a public demonstration of any kind. I believe Cailin insisted that this be informal, "We are going to be shedding blood together."
Loghain was a usurper and traitor. Showing fealty would have been a public acknowledgment of his right to the throne. So it was very appropriate to not kneel before him.

Agreed, although Loghain was only the regent, no matter what his ambitions. While Loghain may have planned to rule through her, Anora was the actual usuper--but no need to kneel to her either. That would have been the opposite of the message they wanted to send.

Addai67 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

I'm pretty sure that Varel just told you about your position. In anycase, you're welcoming the king to a holding over which he has ultimate power as it's leader.

So, you're saying that it is like presenting the arling to him.  I can buy that.  It also explains why your PC is pretty much the only one who kneels, except Mhairi after a hesitation.

Exactly. It's a formal bit of ritual/diplomacy that needs to be gotten out of the way so they can move on to other things.

Modifié par errant_knight, 22 mars 2010 - 07:11 .

[Noir201]

I expected my mage main to kneel to alistair, being consort, am surpised that as a HNF that she would kneel, Anora, yes she would want everyone to kneel to her, the powerhungry backstabing.....

Haven't had time to finish my hnf warrior yet, starting my new job and all, but not much difference between being queen and consort i gather?

[Emerald Melios]

dan107 wrote...

Am I the only one who thought it was ridiculous that my character would kneel before his own wife? Especially with Anders standing tall next to him? The act of kneeling before someone is a stronger statement than just about any line of dialogue; there is absolutely no way that the character should do something like that without player input.

When I, as a player, am looking at a character that's supposed to be my avatar in the game world and going "WHY THE F*CK IS HE DOING THAT?!" that's not an example of good game design IMO.

Don't kid yourself, we all know it reflects the nature of the Warden's marriage to Anora.

[Efesell]

Look if you want a real reason why it's because they didn't want to make a whole new scene just for the people who get really pissy that they don't control every single aspect of their characters movement.

[AntiChri5]

Totally out of character for some.

[Feresta]

Now this is based on what I have read here as I do not have Awakening (at least not yet).

Not really. You can't take circumstances out of context. Your meeting with Cailan was in army camp. The meeting in Awakening was in court in front of others and also the ruler (Anora or Alistair) specifically came for you from what I have understood. That also is important detail in my opinion.

Oh, and Anora was not usurper as she was queen.

Modifié par Feresta, 24 mars 2010 - 09:01 .

[AntiChri5]

You meet the ruler in awakening at the gates of a castle you just fought through as soon as you are done killing darkspawn.

[Efesell]

'Usurper' may be a bit strong, but she wasn't technically 'Queen" unless made so by the Landsmeet. It's basically why Loghain gets away with doing whatever the hell he wants and she has to watch.

[Efesell]

Some things you just have to sacrifice to keep matters from.. well looking really weird. We can't always have full stops in the cutscenes so that you can choose facial expressions.

[Massadonious1]

Clearly the right thing to do was to shrug your shoulders and keep walking.



She might be dead, but eh, screw it.



If you truly didn't care about her well being, you should of killed her in the Tower.

[Efesell]

Worse comes to worse just rewrite the scene in your head.

That's not a "sad" look for Cailan that's a "Oh dear god this guy REEKS" look.

[Massadonious1]

Efesell wrote...

Worse comes to worse just rewrite the scene in your head.
That's not a "sad" look for Cailan that's a "Oh dear god this guy REEKS" look.

And with Wynne, just think of it as "Oh no, my healer might be dead." instead of "Oh no, someone I care about might be dead."

[Efesell]

Well unless you play the character on the xenophobic side it still an understandable show of respect, even if you aren't technically a subject/don't consider yourself one.

[Xandurpein]

imported_beer wrote...

That said, while I understand why an HNM, HNF, or EAF/EAM may bow to the King, I don't understand why a dwarf or Dalish elf would. Do they also bow to Anora/Alistair?

Dwarf, elf or human, you are still the equivalent of an Arl and as such subject to the King or Queen. Alistair/Anora didn't give up part of their country to the Grey Wardens. When a King gives a piece of land to a nobleman it is always assumed that the owe fealty to the King. The Grey Wardens now rule Amaranthine, and the commander rules as de facto Arl, but as such he or she owes fealty to the Crown of Fereldan. It's all how feudlism works.

This also explains why even a consort kneels to the Queen. At the time you are recieving her in the role as Warden Commander and thus Arl of Amaranthine. There are many examples from the middle ages where noblemen with several titles had different status in official ceremonies depending on in which role he attended the ceremony.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 24 mars 2010 - 02:53 .

[dan107]

Feresta wrote...

Not really. You can't take circumstances out of context. Your meeting with Cailan was in army camp. The meeting in Awakening was in court in front of others and also the ruler (Anora or Alistair) specifically came for you from what I have understood. That also is important detail in my opinion.

I understand why you'd get that impression because people have misrepresented it as such, but that's not the case. The "meeting" is in pouring rain among piles of barely dead darkspawn with their blood still fresh on your face and no one around except a few soldiers. Not exactly the formal reception that people portray it to be.

Efesell wrote...

Some things you just have to sacrifice to keep matters from.. well looking really weird. We can't always have full stops in the cutscenes so that you can choose facial expressions.

That's true, but when you can't give the player control over the character you err on the side of being neutral and low key. No strong emotions or jestures. If the character just remained standing, I'm sure no one would've even noticed that scene, let alone had any kind of problem with it.

Efesell wrote...
Well unless you play the character on the xenophobic side it still an understandable show of respect, even if you aren't technically a subject/don't consider yourself one.

A polite nod is a show of respect. Kneeling is a jesture of absolute submission. Big difference there.

Modifié par dan107, 24 mars 2010 - 09:01 .

[Addai]

Feresta wrote...

Now this is based on what I have read here as I do not have Awakening (at least not yet).

Not really. You can't take circumstances out of context. Your meeting with Cailan was in army camp. The meeting in Awakening was in court in front of others and also the ruler (Anora or Alistair) specifically came for you from what I have understood. That also is important detail in my opinion.

No, they aren't expected.  The seneschal and your warden don't even know it's the king's/queen's troops until they approach.  Either they're coming on some message about events in Amaranthine, or one of the soldiers fleeing the Keep happens upon them and tells them what is happening.

Oh, and Anora was not usurper as she was queen.

She's not a usurper, but neither is she queen regnant until the Landsmeet says so.

[caradoc2000]

Why did my human noble prince KNEEL before Anora?

He found a dime.

[Sarah1281]

And when Cailan was hung up and my character looked sad.

Yes, I thought it was kind of weird when one my characters looked so upset and then cheerfully fed him to the wolves five minutes later. Maybe they were concerned about those poor starving wolves?

[ejoslin]

Sarah1281 wrote...

And when Cailan was hung up and my character looked sad.

Yes, I thought it was kind of weird when one my characters looked so upset and then cheerfully fed him to the wolves five minutes later. Maybe they were concerned about those poor starving wolves?

Oh, this made no sense to me.  My DNF felt that Cailin was a fool, and thought cremation was very strange.  Regarding kneeling to Alistair, I'm not sure a princess would actually kneel to a King, if it would even be considered proper (she was restored to house Aeducan and also named a Paragon -- seems odd that she would bow).  

Modifié par ejoslin, 24 mars 2010 - 09:40 .

[earl of the north]

The real reason your character kneels before Alistair or Anora is because the story seems to be mainly written for the Orlesian Warden Commander rather than our returning characters.

Orlesians, or Grey Wardens serving in Orlais would kneel before the monarch, so your Orlesian GW automatically does when meeting the Fereldan Monarch, Mhari looks a bit shocked and then joins in since she's under your command.

As to why your character does it, it doesn't really make sense since the kneeling seems to be an Orlesian custom.......but its easy to come up with reasons why your character would feel the need to point out who the rightful ruler of Fereldan is....in the case of my Female noble her family holds two Arlings, she's married to the King and holds a third Arling as Commander of the Grey.....All in all she is probably personally more powerful than Alistair and kneeling before witness shows she totally loyal to the crown.

Which makes it strange that she's short of troops actually since she can call on troops from both her brother's Arling (I assume he would lend her a few) and her own, as well as those under her command as Commander of the Grey......not to mention some Royal Guard would have been nice.  But no Alistair just swans off again..... also seems strange that he walked all that way, just to say hi and then leaves again when he finds out your command has been overrun and you've suffered heavy losses.

Modifié par earl of the north, 24 mars 2010 - 10:18 .

[Addai]

They morphed us into Orlesian bootlickers?! Say it ain't so.