First off, thanks to everyone who took the time to reply to this post. I’m amazed, and impressed, that people read or attempted to read it all. I’ll try and respond to you all.
I was aware that my post was a little long and rambling. I would have liked it to be a little tighter but the wonder of ME is that it’s an emotive experience. You don’t connect with the characters because of the graphics, the mechanics or the game engine, it’s a little deeper and hence because of this, some grumbles like customisation or dialogue will feel nitpicky.
It probably is but when each play through is so individual, or can certainly feel individual, I think some of the grumbles are because they are emotional responses. I’m not saying the game offends me or that it’s ruined my life. Far from it. I’m just commenting from an emotive standpoint.
bjdbwea – Thanks for your kind words. I agree on the pre-ordering. I pre-ordered the special edition of ME2 and haven’t yet watched the making of because I’m just not feeling it. I’m not throwing my toys out of the pram but after playing ME1 I went into sponge mode. I wanted to know everything about the game, the makers etc whilst the experience lingered like a fine wine (not that I’m a regular wine drinker!).
After ME2, I felt very little. I wasn’t left satisfied and I wasn’t left wanting more. I’m sure I’ll be suckered with ME3 but it won’t be creating the weight of excitement that ME2 did.
Darht Jayder – I thought others might have expressed similar thoughts but I couldn’t really be sure. Apologies for the repetition.
Highdragonslayer – Fair comment, though I thought the Reapers contempt for any sentient life wasn’t enough that they would single out one element of the combined races that killed Sovereign.
Badpie – Thanks for reading and your kind comments
Yorkj86 – I’ve not played DA:O, maybe I should give it a go.
Greenhelm – Fair comment. It was long though the books you’ve read shorter than this must have only been at primary school. I didn’t HATE it but I’m simply responding to it emotively. If you invest time into something, it’s only natural that’s you’d think about it isn’t it.
Symbol117 – That’s the right attitude. My thoughts needn’t offend those that disagree with my opinion of the game.
WildStill – That’s a good summation but I wouldn’t say I’m a usual suspect. I didn’t hate the game but a healthy forum for a game is one where there are differing opinions, both good AND bad.
Kotoreffect – It’s not blind nostalgia rage and there’s nothing to suspect. ME2 soundtrack might have been epic but if it was it blended into the background. ME1 had so many distinctive sounds, hence the example I cited. When I first started ME1, it was the music which was the first and most overpowering hook. Hearing those distinctive 70’s sci fi feeling tunes whilst I created my character and then played through the game, were very impressive.
I didn’t feel the same connection with the soundtrack in ME2 and I don’t think this can be dismissed that I simply wasn’t listening to it enough. Listening to the ME2 soundtrack would not paint similar scenes in my mind. Maybe this is the fault of the music or because there weren’t enough memorable scenes.
Zulu DFA – Thanks bud
TrickFred – Thanks for the support tiger
SkullandBonesmember – Glad you felt the experience lingered as well. You are right. I don’t have a problem with the quality of the characters but Bioware need to understand that you will want to really interact with them. I remember when Legion came on board and Jacob said that Tali would be pissed. I immediately went down to discuss it with her but no mention was made of it.
I appreciate it’s tough to write endless content and everyone has favourite characters but I’d personally prefer to have fewer meaning that I bond with them more, have more dialogue with them and that they themselves can interact, as they would at the post mission briefings in ME1
IoCaster – Fair comment on the shooty stuff. I was thrown right off at the beginning. I guess killing Shepherd off was a quick and easy way to hook in newbies but it didn’t give it the weight it needed.
Yeled – Thanks for reading and your complimentary words. Likewise I hope somebody at Bioware reads it but I do not, as some have tried to indicate, believe that I speak for everyone. It is my opinion on the direction of the game. Some disagree and some, like yourself, thankfully agree.
I do not say that others are right or wrong but at least I feel that you understood my points and in turn probably played the game in the same way or vein as I did.
Throw this away – That was funny and a good summation about the annoyances of the first game. The thing is, for me that is, is that the weaknesses you mentioned were easily sidelined with a strong, tight story. ME2 didn’t have this, IMO, and hence they were more visible.
Phatpat63 – I’m glad you liked and agree. Your highlighting of the two core decisions is spot on.
You really felt that the decisions you’d sweated over really were “tossed aside” or resolved in a quick soundbite meaning that although I made the decision to not destroy the collector base, the decision won’t linger with me because it’s already been demonstrated that my decisions don’t really have that much impact.
XX55XX – Fair comment but if something disappoints, you can’t ignore it’s faults by saying it’s better than something worse. I mean technically it’s not a better shooter than COD, GOW so maybe it’s shouldn’t have tried so hard to be.
Smudboy – Glad I’m not alone. You are right, despite my other grumbles, story and plot is what it really boils down to.
Your later dissection of Juuana points was excellent. Your mindset, certainly on ME2, is very similar to mine. You are spot on with your thoughts on Garrus and how is new mindset is not further explored after Dr Saleon. Highlighting previous missions to me should have been an easy win for Bioware. It’s a great nod to those that have invested time and an encouragement to go back and investigate for those that didn’t.
Nice work.
SpartanMKV – Excellent point. Why can’t we have both. I prefer the action in COD, GOW, Halo but it’s the story, the immersion that pulls me to ME. I appreciate you are simplifying things but I’d say distilling them down. It’s the RPG elements that makes people so passionate about ME. They are it’s foundations.
I mean it would be ridiculous to grumble about the look or lack of customisation to your character in COD because clearly you don’t engage/relate to him in the same way. In ME, you clearly do. He or she is your baby and hence you expect more interaction. That’s why although nice to have both, I’d sacrifice a cover system and other latest shooter fads for a solid story that really blew me away.
MassAffected – Thanks for reminding me that it’s MY opinion. I don’t believe that I stated it was fact or indicated that it over-ruled all others. Likewise I never assumed that I spoke for everyone in my rant. Indeed I even said
“I don’t say this to indicate that my opinion is gospel, far from it, but to at least justify that I am entitled to an opinion”. Take apart my argument if you wish but don’t gloss over the caveats’ I put in.
Rhofan – Interesting point. Because I wanted to continue the immersion, I replayed ME1 just before I started ME2. I think maybe this highlighted even more the differences between the two. When I started the replay I thought I’d never want to take the Mako down planet side but I actually enjoyed it. I can’t see me ever enjoying the planet scanning
Dinkamus_Littlelog – Thanks. Glad you felt similar. I don’t mean that in a kind of them & us situation, just appreciating someone acknowledging the same sentiment.
Blessed Silence – I was amazed that you couldn’t wander round the Citadel more. When the Normandy docked up you felt this feeling of ‘we’ve come home’ yet to only be able to see a few rooms left me bemused. Although ME2 was on two discs, the game felt smaller.
PoisonedBlades – Crazy, I could be but Halo, for me, was a great gaming experience. Notice the words experience. It doesn’t matter whether it’s story etc wasn’t as good at what followed or was clichéd. It was how it all clicked – the music, the action, the characters.
We all have seminal moments on different consoles. Resident Evil or Twisted Metal on the PS One, Max Payne on the PS2. For me Halo was the most powerful of all memories and experiences. I was putting it in there as a direct comparison but rather to indicate where Mass Effect stood for me. It is however a little weak to dismiss my thoughts on Mass Effect because I enjoyed Halo. Does this mean if I like pasta, I can’t have an opinion of pizza?
Nallski - Yes, I may have nitpicked but I guess when you take your character and the story on board, you will notice things good and bad. If the experience is positive then it will carry you over the glitches, but if not sometimes you notice them more.
You make a interesting point on the ‘new universe’ element. I think once you know something ie the Mass Effect universe, it becomes very personal. You take it on board and you have time to shape it in your mind as to where it will go. I liken it to Rocky I and Rocky II. Rocky II for me is one of the greatest sequels because it didn’t try and re-invent itself. It didn’t try and get clever or suddenly think “we need another audience”. It delivered one of the true-est examples of a sequel in continuing right on, literally, from the first.
Okay ME2 did improve things, notably the graphics (though the loading screens seem to take a similar age) and I appreciate there is always the drive for something new, but I think they tried so hard to improve it in certain directions that they neglected it’s strong story, plot, decision foundations.
REShepherd – That’s a fair comment. Different game play appeals to different players.
Ray Joel Oh – Cheers
Darth Drago – It’s great having lots of team members but when you can only use 2 at a time, and achievements seem to be given for being certain race allies (with the possibility that this might have led to plot related points), it seems too many. The analogy to Magnificent Seven is a good one.
Another good point on the mission end point. It felt so clumsy, so eschewing the exploration or immersion vibe. It was basically saying “okay, you’ve ticked all the boxes, let’s get going”
Yeah, the scanning wasn’t much of a mini game though you couldn’t not do it if you wanted the minerals. There’s also the opinion when people say “you don’t have to do it if you don’t want to”. I agree maybe you don’t but if you are playing a game and decide to miss bits out because they are tedious, it’s affecting your experience of the whole game. You are basically prepared to omit parts of and hence have the realisation that you aren’t embracing it.
By finding the scanning to be boring, I felt reading about the planets pointless. This then led to me not really bothering to read the Codex anymore.
I appreciate your line by line response to my points and agree with your interpretations. Likewise I had expected a Virmire style decision. Quoting Virmire really sums up what’s missing from ME2. When a friend, new to Mass Effect, had played the first one there were so many things/decisions/set pieces to discuss with him – What had happened on Virmire, did he let the colonists live on Feros, what did he do about the council, who did he romance, who did he make the human representative.
In ME2 it was who did he romance and what did he do with the collector base?
Pmorgan18 – I respect your opinion. As someone else has suggested maybe I need to check out Dragon Age, though with new games coming out and limited evening time, it’s hard to fit it in and be able to give up 50-60 hours to a game.
Onyx Jaguar – Fair enough. Each to their own. Thanks for not descending into cheap mud slinging.
Jonathan Shepherd – Cheers bud
EternalNightmare13 – Yeah thanks but if you are going to promote my blog at least remember to mention it www.paynebyname.com
GuardianAngel47 – Thanks at least for reading it all. You are right, my thoughts won’t impede your enjoyment (and so they shouldn’t). I’ve mentioned the Halo point earlier but for me, everything clicked. No one had a cover system when Halo came out and to be far I didn’t/don’t need it. One just learns to side slide to the left or right behind cover, rather than the need to crouch. Likewise, I didn’t need squad commands. I’d had Full Spectrum Warrior for that. Halo to me was a blast riot from single player to split screen multiplayer with my brother.
It had so many memorable scenes from the battles round the grav lift through to the crazy section when you are hammering the flood in the corridor on the way to blowing up the exhaust rods (?). I’m not comparing graphics, engines, mechanics like for like when I mention Halo but rather the emotive experience.
On a side note, I also have all of the soundtracks and consider the Gregorian chant as powerful as Vigil from ME1. Difference is, Halo knew what worked and exploited it for Halo. Where have ME2 picked up the iconic tune and ran with it? (Steve Jablonsky’s work on GOW2 is very good by the way)
Juuana – Thanks for taking a similar non combative stance.
Team – Yes I would have liked more Garrus but that’s because he’s from the 1st. In the first game the loyalty missions that you do for the team are considered ‘side quests’ in this they ARE the quest, hence maybe why it felt weaker. It wasn’t a case of spending more time with a character. I went back to regularly interact with team members after missions etc and very little changed. I don’t want to just stand in their vicinity but fully interact with them.
Decisions – You are right, maybe my expectation were too high and truthfully demonstrating the outcomes of my decisions would have made many different variants of the game but isn’t this was the makers were always saying would happen. Wasn’t the marketing of Mass Effect 1 about how you decide, about how you shape the story.
When I realised that ME2 was going to be on two discs did no one else think this was to make allowances for the incredible branching storyline. Other than the endless planet scanning, I find it hard to see why ME2 was on two discs. No area was as big as The Citadel, Feros or Virmire so why they need for the extra storage space?
They are interesting questions that you pose but the makers legitimacy in answering them in the 3rd has to be questioned when they answered so little in the second. I had similar thoughts on how different things would be with or without the council but in all honesty it hardly mattered.
I appreciated that at the final mission you got to delegate but frankly if they hadn’t put that in, what would have been the point in all the recruitment? Your idea of switching would have been pretty cool but I’ve been disappointed on many a game where you stockpile for the final end battle and it all gets discarded or ignored.
What made ME1 more powerful though is that some of the deaths happened mid way through (for me on the first time both Wrex and Ashley) hence the decision/loss lingered. It had more dramatic impact. Killing off team members when you are 15 minutes from the end doesn’t really have much impact, especially when in my case I lost Mordin with no explanation or fanfare, bar a shot of him on the floor.
Your response was a very well written one and I apologise if you took offence that I was dismissing those that liked this as CoD fanboys. To me, IMO, with a lesser plot & story and ramped up action, it felt that was the market and direction that ME2 was trying to appeal to.
Cascadus – I also would gladly wait another year for something better but I do understand that you can’t please everyone. For everyone who is disappointed, there will be others that were enthralled. On this occasion it wasn’t me.
Axterus – Some great points. Less characters but more depth. Less recruiting, more forward momentum for the story. I certainly felt the combat in 1 more interesting. I know people would say it should be challenging and realistic but it just felt better and ultimately more fun. Doing the Vorcha on Omega Red in Mordins mission was my first real taste of action in ME2 and I didn’t really enjoy it.
I would also agree on the Reapers. Their mystique and pure malice is what makes them so formidable and unnerving. The metallic voice and contemptuous tone when you speak to Sovereign on Virmire does more than anything in ME2 to make you alarmed at the destructive power and single mindedness of the Reapers.
Lastpawn – Thanks. Fingers crossed that they can take the best of both worlds. The devs do seem to listen to their fans so maybe they can somehow cherry pick their way through everybody comments and come up with something in ME3 that restores my faith.
Jamoau – Glad you feel similar. Initially I thought the reboot was a clever idea and designed to deliberately keep you on edge. I mean the Illusive Man say’s “we’ll have to take care of Shepherd” and the next thing I’m being blown out of the sky.
It only then slowly dawned on me that this device was an indicator of how my much trumpeted decisions from the first weren’t going to have the dramatic impact that I’d been told. This then corrupted the rest of the game for as enjoyable as some sections might have been, to quote another poster it was more having the pages of a book turned for you rather than you actually choosing which page to go to (if that makes sense).
I have doubts for ME3 as well. You worry that when the makers head off in a certain direction that it’s going to be even harder for them to reverse or at least take a moment of reflection. Just like how the LOTR trilogy, IMO, descended from a very decent first one into crowd pleasing banality by ROTK.
Jarcander – Yes, maybe there would have been more balance in adding what I liked. The graphics were better, the ship looked better. It was great to see Garrus again and his lines about me or him being the looker were well written and indicative of what decent banter we could have had.
I liked the fact that my picture of Liara remained up and whilst others might have been getting sexy time my Shep was in his room looking at the picture. Whether or not my fidelity to her will be rewarded we are yet to see.
Raniall - A discussion forum is for opinions. I wouldn’t say that the title of the topic was misleading or hoodwinked you into not realising what it would be about. It’s easy enough to skip on by if you don’t want to read.
Karstedt – Yeah, you got me there in one. Nice summation
Valmy – Sorry if you felt that way. My intention was not to offend you.
Forsakker – Thanks buddy. It was very linear as you said.
Cerberus1701 – Each to their own and I have played ME. However the cover, the shooting, the AI isn’t the be all and end all of a game. If I wanted cover, shooting and AI, I’d play GOW 2
Et2cetera – Some good points, particularly on team dress, story and weapons.
Commodore Q – Thanks for your kind words, glad they struck a chord.
ODST 3 – I guess that’s a real possibility. Maybe I’ll mellow and things won’t bug as much. If I do play it again, I’ll try not to write such a long post on my thoughts, though I fear my frustrations at certain things could remain.
Cailean – But I’d rather have 6 if I could feel more involved. By your logic why not have 20 and only 4 conversation exchanges. Bigger isn’t always better.
Beresaadsoldier – Without wasting too many pixels, I certainly thought the two discs would give us a considerably longer game. We’ll have to disagree on the soundtrack.
Grilled Trout – That was a very well written response. Courteous and informative. I read it all through though I think a response could descend us into a never ending chain. I take on board some of the points and put others down to our clearly different emotive responses to playing the game. I’m sorry I haven’t responded point by point but please be aware that I did read them all.
Nashiktal – Thanks for your kind words. I thought this post would be thoroughly ignored so it’s re-assuring to see others that have/had a similar experience and feeling.
Modifié par Payne by name, 23 mars 2010 - 08:18 .
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