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Mass Effect 2. My disappointed thoughts


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#201
Mr. Gogeta34

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Moiaussi wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Additionally, it wasn't a human-looking ship.. they were actually building a Reaper based on the human species. Harbinger (a Reaper) explained this by saying "We will bring your species into harmony with our own."


Pardon, but that doesn't really explain anything. Even if they are building a ship for the mecha-human to live in, it doesn't explain why the mecha-human in the first place. A black box would make  a lot more sense (or grey box, since those already exist).


It's there because the Reapers are adding the human species into the fold.  I'm not sure where the confusion is on that...


iakus wrote...

Indeed.  If you're rendering a human, or many humans, for that matter into goo, why does that goo then have to look human?  Particularly since this is a space-faring synthetic life form, not a terrestrial based biological life form.  You'd think the form would be shaped to suit the needs of the enviroment.

That goo is just organic material and not the hard surface, like the difference between skin and bones.  The species is adapted to fit the Reaper standards and that was the resulting shape.  It didn't look completely human because of those changes, so it's likely that it did fit the environment it was meant for.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 07 décembre 2010 - 10:36 .


#202
AdmiralCheez

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Payne by name wrote...

Yeah, sorry. I had some free time at the office. Checked back on here and noticed that people had commented on my thread which I'd never gone back to.

No problem.  The internet is the best place to kill time while trapped at a desk ever.  Oh, the horrible things I've done between classes...  Term paper, what term paper?

Each to their own and I concede that different games, trigger different emotional responses in different. Hence how some can have a more intense experience with one game or another.

Totally.  ME1 just felt a bit... stale to me.  Probably my short attention span.  ME2's quests had more variety and personality, plus I felt you got to know the characters better.  It just lacked the epic scale and badass bad guys (Saren and Sovereign) that made ME1 great.  Nothing kills a good story faster than a lousy villain.

As others have said maybe the 1st one is always the biggest but I have seen/experienced sequels that surpassed their predecessors and had hoped ME2 would be one of those rare beasts.

It's the nostalgia factor.  Most people like the first best because it's when everything was fresh and new.  Personally, in a series that is meant to cover multiple volumes (and not one that includes cash cow rehashes), I find that the first tends to be the most memorable, but gets bogged down by all the introductory material.  The Fellowship of the Ring is a perfect example of this: big, epic, and memorable, but kind of slow-moving and unrefined.

I like to think of ME2 as an experiment: the developers were messing with as many things as they could, trying to figure out what works and what doesn't.  Combat sucked?  MOAR ACTION.  Inventory sucked?  We'll remove it and see what happens.  Et cetera.  I have a feeling they almost over-corrected on purpose to see how far they could push it in one direction.  Now they'll be able to take the best out of both chapters and fuse 'em together into one giant package of awesome.  Assuming EA doesn't ruin everything.

Hell, I'm probably giving them too much credit.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 07 décembre 2010 - 11:53 .


#203
Il Divo

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iakus wrote...

It seems to fit better than a three-eyed human, yeah.

Though I always though of Sovereign, at least, as being shaped more like a gigantic hand.

Image IPBImage IPB


Well, Mass Effect wiki lists the Reapers as having a design based on the cuttlefish. But this still eaves the large question of: how does the Reaper design, be it a hand or a cuttlefish, in any way fit the needs of a space environment? 

#204
Iakus

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Il Divo wrote...

iakus wrote...

It seems to fit better than a three-eyed human, yeah.

Though I always though of Sovereign, at least, as being shaped more like a gigantic hand.

Image IPBImage IPB


Well, Mass Effect wiki lists the Reapers as having a design based on the cuttlefish. But this still eaves the large question of: how does the Reaper design, be it a hand or a cuttlefish, in any way fit the needs of a space environment? 


A good question.  One that's not likely to have a satisfactoy answer since, as far as we know, there are no synthetic, space-faring  aliens to compare them to:)

But I can tell you why a human-form Reaper smply doesn't fit.

I mean, look at humans.  We're biped who are designed mainly for walking on the ground and climbing (not so much that anymore)  Humans primarilly work in two dimensions.   How would such a form work in space, with three dimensions to work with?  Where does one walk?  What does one climb on?   In space, you fly.  With engines and fuel.  Where does that go on a human-Reaper.  On second thought.  Don't answer that.  I don't wanna know Image IPB

It has been mentioned that the cuttlefish shape is the ship and the actual reapers are all sorts of shapes, reminiscient of the host species.  If that's the case, again, why bother?  If the actual Reaper spends all it's time on a ship, why not simply be a "black box" connected to the ship itself?  Why waste resources making a body that will never see the light of day? 

If such a space dwelling synthetic creature were to exist.  I imagine it would take a form more in keeping with being able to move easily on all axes.  Something more like a flying creature like a bird or an insect.  Or an aquatic creature like a fish.  Or a cuttlefish....At any rtate, the human form just strikes me as not only silly, but ineffecient, given the Reeper home enviroment. (dark space)

#205
Payne by name

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Il Divo wrote...

Payne by name wrote...

I know many say 'oh things need to evolve, always be fresh' but there’s no point in establishing a sound and feel if you aren’t going to reference it. Change for change for sake isn’t always best. Look at the Halo franchise music. Love it or hate it, the Gregorian chant music is certainly evocative, and iconic, for the series. Similarly, the first three Star Wars films all have good soundtracks with their share of standout pieces, but John Williams made sure that they all feel they originate from the same place. It’s a different film but it’s part of the same story.
 
Mass Effect had a chance with it’s music, but IMO that has passed. 

Image IPBImage IPB


A very interesting point. I myself have always found the music in Halo to be my favorite part of the series, more even than the story, gameplay, and multiplayer simply for the emotion it evokes. I often feel that it is under-rated (or at least not emphasized enough) by many fans of the series.

As far as Mass Effect 2 goes, on the whole I found the soundtrack to be overall a 'better' quality and gave a sense of epic factor, but I too miss alot of the more subtle pieces from Mass Effect, such as Vigil, and the themes on Noveria/the Citadel. They were more atmospheric and contributed very well to their respective environments.I would like to see Bioware return to more pieces like this for ME3. 


I certainly agree with you on the music aspect of gaming and the emotional connection it generates. I own pretty much all of the Halo soundtracks, the Mass Effect one and for Gears of War. I remember Jason Jones commenting once about how much impact he believed Marty O'Donnell's music added to Halo. He was making the point that for the effort involved (not that he was implying Marty was lazy) was almost disproportionate to the impact it made on the game. ie Marty slaves for 48 hours and creates a piece that will linger and resonate, whilst a programmer could work for 48 hours and his input would not be as easily recognised.

For me, the ME1 soundtrack was so iconic and connected to the feel of that universe, that it's lack of referencing in ME2, compounded the feeling of the game being different. As you say, the specific pieces for the specific locales (Citadel, Noveria) helped make that connection even stronger.

#206
Payne by name

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Encarmine wrote...

I stopped reading this thread as soon as the OP claimed Halo as the best game ever on consol. Also, how does this thread even belong in the Mass Effect 2 Official Campaign Quests and Storylines (Spoilers Warning) section?

Silly whiners, you'll still buy ME3 99% of the posters here, and i look foward to seeing you whining about that game as well. Just accept that World of Warcrak has made it almost impossible to rely on sales from the RPG community anymore, as most of them are to busy trying to down ragnaros, hence the clever idea of ME2 of merging FPS action with RPG.



I stopped reading this thread as soon as the OP claimed Halo as the best game ever on consol.”
 
I have tried to reference this charge before and will draw your attention to the part which I bolded of me saying it was my best gaming experience. It’s a shame that people make these grandiose claims to stop reading, when in reality they haven’t actually started reading what was written it in the first place.
 
Halo, for me, was a great gaming experience. Notice the words experience. It doesn’t matter whether it’s story etc wasn’t as good at what followed or whether it was clichéd. It was how it all clicked, how it resonated with the player – the music, the action, the characters.

We all have seminal moments on different consoles. Resident Evil or Twisted Metal on the PS One, Max Payne on the PS2. For me, Halo was the most powerful of all memories and experiences. I wasn't putting it in there as a direct comparison, but rather to indicate where Mass Effect stood for me. 


Also, how does this thread even belong in the Mass Effect 2 Official Campaign Quests and Storylines (Spoilers Warning) section?”


It seemed the logical section to place this within. The post relates to the game, quests and story and contains spoilers.

#207
Aurica

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WALL-OF-TEXT CRITS YOU FOR 2,332,562,759 DAMAGE. :pinched:

I skim through your post instead of fully reading it.  Its just too much and too long.  I'm not entirely happy with ME2 either but overall I am fairly satisfied by what it delivered.  I'm sure it could use more depth and there are certain things that I would prefer to see.  Or Bioware expanded on.

For most part, I am grateful that the game is playable and does not come ridden with bugs unlike some other EA games.

#208
Il Divo

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iakus wrote...


I mean, look at humans.  We're biped who are designed mainly for walking on the ground and climbing (not so much that anymore)  Humans primarilly work in two dimensions.   How would such a form work in space, with three dimensions to work with?  Where does one walk?  What does one climb on?   In space, you fly.  With engines and fuel.  Where does that go on a human-Reaper.  On second thought.  Don't answer that.  I don't wanna know Image IPB


And yet, the Reaper was still incomplete. As you say further down, current theories indicate that the final form of the Reaper would be closer to what we've seen of Sovereign/Harbinger, especially if EDI theorizes that all Reapers are modeled on the race which they are created from.

It has been mentioned that the cuttlefish shape is the ship and the actual reapers are all sorts of shapes, reminiscient of the host species.  If that's the case, again, why bother?  If the actual Reaper spends all it's time on a ship, why not simply be a "black box" connected to the ship itself?  Why waste resources making a body that will never see the light of day? 


Concept art has alluded to this, yes. But this is also missing the fact that the part of the ship which you refer to as a 'waste of resources' makes up a substantial aspect of the Reaper, namely the 'legs', or would it be the arms? Not entirely certain. Regardless, the body itself (if we are to take the concept art seriously) was intended to serve a purpose.

If such a space dwelling synthetic creature were to exist.  I imagine it would take a form more in keeping with being able to move easily on all axes.  Something more like a flying creature like a bird or an insect.  Or an aquatic creature like a fish.  Or a cuttlefish....At any rtate, the human form just strikes me as not only silly, but ineffecient, given the Reeper home enviroment. (dark space)

Image IPBImage IPB

If a space dwelling synthetic species were to exist, I imagine they would not take the forms of fish, or giant hands. I would imagine they would take the most efficient form possible, of which neither fish, nor birds really seem to fit the bill. Fish swim in the water. Birds fly in the air. Space has neither. To my knowledge, we have not begun designing our space ships in such a way yet. :P














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#209
Il Divo

Il Divo
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AGH. Why do these stupid characters appear every time I quote someone?

#210
Payne by name

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Nozybidaj wrote...

Payne by name wrote...

 
Such a wasted opportunity, such a disappointment compared to the first one and a real feeling that your core audience was discarded in favour of the inconsistent vagaries of the shooter audience.


That was a terrific post.  Well done.


Cheers buddy. Thanks for your kind words.

#211
Iakus

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Il Divo wrote...

And yet, the Reaper was still incomplete. As you say further down, current theories indicate that the final form of the Reaper would be closer to what we've seen of Sovereign/Harbinger, especially if EDI theorizes that all Reapers are modeled on the race which they are created from.


Yes, it is incomplete.  But what we do see of it is distinctly human.  A human robot.  It looks nothing llike Sovereign or any of the Reapers in dark space.

Concept art has alluded to this, yes. But this is also missing the fact that the part of the ship which you refer to as a 'waste of resources' makes up a substantial aspect of the Reaper, namely the 'legs', or would it be the arms? Not entirely certain. Regardless, the body itself (if we are to take the concept art seriously) was intended to serve a purpose.


Concept art is not the same as in-game appearance.  I seem to recall at least one of those pictures looked much more like a "Reaper with a human face" which would have been much better.  Though I guess it would have been much harder to have Shepard fight it.

Yes, legs would be a wase of resources.  Arms would either be too much or not enough (basically, either why bother with arms, or if they are useful in space, why stop at two?)  Even the head is a waste, unless it's simply decorative.  Why have eyes when scanners can detect things more accurately and in 360 degrees?  Why bother with a mouth?

Was this supposed to be Locutus of Reaper, designed with the intention of telling humanity that "resistence is futile"?  Okay, it's weak, but I suppose I could buy that, if we were told that to begin with, rather than relying of EDI's "speculation which is certain to be true" that this is how Reapers reproduce.

Image IPBImage IPB
If a space dwelling synthetic species were to exist, I imagine they would not take the forms of fish, or giant hands. I would imagine they would take the most efficient form possible, of which neither fish, nor birds really seem to fit the bill. Fish swim in the water. Birds fly in the air. Space has neither. To my knowledge, we have not begun designing our space ships in such a way yet. :P


I'm not saying Reapers would be like space trout, but that their forms might be more similar to that, rather than arboreal humanoids Image IPB  Namely, as creatures which travel in all three dimensions, pursue prey "up" and "down" as well as straight ahead.

#212
Payne by name

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Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

I think a lot of those complaints are quite overblown.

Missions are usually decided before you start them. You have an initial objective and are then sent to complete them... so it shouuld feel like there's a structure to it (because missions have structure).

On Horizon, you're supposed to be saving the colonists as fast as you can while still taking in what's happening, that's not really the place for sight-seeing.

I agree with you though that having such a large crew doesn't mean much for individual character-development... but it does boost your stature for having so many capable people at your command. And despite the large numbers, all the chars were developed "okay" at its worst and "well" at its best (DLC chars withstanding).

I also agree that they could've opened up the planets more in exploration size, though I don't think it really hindered much.

Planet-scanning was "okay" the first time and I actually made a little mini-game out of it... but it's definitely not something you want to do again after you've leveled your char up.

I personally felt that the clips allowed for faster play. Overheated weapons took longer to cool down than you as the player can reload. Could add more ammo per clip and you get the best of both worlds.

Also there's no "sacrifice" of the story for action, the action is better, the story was just smaller in scope than Mass Effect 1. Add more non-loyalty, main plot twists and turns and you'd have what you're really after. No need to blame the much-improved combat system.

If your member died in the suicide mission, it was for a clear reason. You see how all of them die except for the final fall (where steel beams are on them... but that's pretty self-explainatory).
Additionally, it wasn't a human-looking ship.. they were actually building a Reaper based on the human species. Harbinger (a Reaper) explained this by saying "We will bring your species into harmony with our own."

Long story short, lets be honest, Mass Effect 2 was great, it was emotionally engaging too... but could've been better. Being able to be better doesn't mean what was on hand wasn't great... because it was.


"On Horizon, you're supposed to be saving the colonists as fast as you can while still taking in what's happening, that's not really the place for sight-seeing." - Fair comment but you aren't taking in the atmosphere when it's effectively - Go to point A, now go to point B, cover, shoot, repeat.

"If your member died in the suicide mission, it was for a clear reason. You see how all of them die except for the final fall (where steel beams are on them... but that's pretty self-explainatory). " - Believe me, I was paying close attention during the Suicide Mission but the first I knew of Mordin dying was seeing him on the floor. No explanation was offered. I'd completed his loyalty mission. He was just gone.

"Additionally, it wasn't a human-looking ship.. they were actually building a Reaper based on the human species." - I'd say that a final big boss with a face, neck, body and arms is human looking, wouldn't you? It certainly didn't look like Sovereign. 

"Long story short, lets be honest, Mass Effect 2 was great, it was emotionally engaging too" - In my opinion in wasn't. Had it been a brand new, stand alone maybe I would have thought it better but compared to ME1 and how I engaged with that game, this was I'm afraid, not as good.

#213
Payne by name

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

It's the nostalgia factor.  Most people like the first best because it's when everything was fresh and new.  Personally, in a series that is meant to cover multiple volumes (and not one that includes cash cow rehashes), I find that the first tends to be the most memorable, but gets bogged down by all the introductory material.  The Fellowship of the Ring is a perfect example of this: big, epic, and memorable, but kind of slow-moving and unrefined.

I like to think of ME2 as an experiment: the developers were messing with as many things as they could, trying to figure out what works and what doesn't.  Combat sucked?  MOAR ACTION.  Inventory sucked?  We'll remove it and see what happens.  Et cetera.  I have a feeling they almost over-corrected on purpose to see how far they could push it in one direction.  Now they'll be able to take the best out of both chapters and fuse 'em together into one giant package of awesome.  Assuming EA doesn't ruin everything.

Hell, I'm probably giving them too much credit.



It's the nostalgia factor.  Most people like the first best because it's when everything was fresh and new”.  I can see the logic in that and I think that could have played out had ME1 been almost a stand alone game and due to it’s success Bioware green lighted a second. When the studio though were so adamant from the beginning that it was an inter-connected  trilogy and kept reminding us that actions in the first would have repercussions in the second, I think it understandable that people would expect more of the same.
 
I remember the lead programmer talking how ME2 would be the dark one, like Empire Strikes Back. Now TESB was darker but it didn’t lose what made it a Star Wars film. Many people went into ME2 expecting it to be the same because that’s what we’d been told to think and expect.
 
You also used the example of FOTR, which is a good one. To me, that was the best of the three, maybe because of the introductory material but also because of the way it played. Unfortunately, although Jackson had filmed all three together, he edited the 2nd after having listened to feedback from the 1st. It was just a shame that the stuff he listened to were elements that damaged a relationship that had the chance to be really great in Legolas/Gimli. Gimli became the comedy bringer and Legolas always struggling to find the ‘cool’ moves to appease the screaming fanboys.
 
Obviously that is just one example but I think it’s indicative of feedback affecting the ‘purity’ of a story. You can’t help but think that the whole trilogy would have been better had the makers trusted their instincts after making FOTR and not listened to the feedback.
 
Part of me feels the same for ME1 (which I understand makes my rambling diatribe pointless) but it’s like they got rid of everything that people screamed they disliked but didn’t try to factor in the things they did like. With the subsequent financial success of ME2, I can’t help but see Bioware continuing down the road they’re on of dumbing down, ‘cooling’ up and making more cash.

#214
Nozybidaj

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Payne by name wrote...

"Long story short, lets be honest, Mass Effect 2 was great, it was emotionally engaging too" - In my opinion in wasn't. Had it been a brand new, stand alone maybe I would have thought it better but compared to ME1 and how I engaged with that game, this was I'm afraid, not as good.


I have always said I thought ME2 would have worked much better as a spinoff, throw someone random like Conrad in as the lead or someone totally new and have at it.  The second part of a trilogy though isn't really the place for the creators to try out every character idea they've had floating around in their head all at once in a big giant ball of inconsistency while simultaneously bagging on everything that came before and not doing anything at all with the actual plot of the trilogy. 

If they just absolutely had to get all these characters out of their system and try new things, ME2 which really should have been about character development and building up the plot and the reaper threat into the third game was totally the wrong place to do it.  

#215
Leikn

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On my part, I'd prefer more romance actions/talks~ Cuz the dialog options are almost always the same~



And the clips are a pain to get all the time, my god~

#216
Mr. Gogeta34

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Payne by name wrote...

1  "On Horizon, you're supposed to be saving the colonists as fast as you can while still taking in what's happening, that's not really the place for sight-seeing." - Fair comment but you aren't taking in the atmosphere when it's effectively - Go to point A, now go to point B, cover, shoot, repeat.

2  "If your member died in the suicide mission, it was for a clear reason. You see how all of them die except for the final fall (where steel beams are on them... but that's pretty self-explainatory). " - Believe me, I was paying close attention during the Suicide Mission but the first I knew of Mordin dying was seeing him on the floor. No explanation was offered. I'd completed his loyalty mission. He was just gone.

3  "Additionally, it wasn't a human-looking ship.. they were actually building a Reaper based on the human species." - I'd say that a final big boss with a face, neck, body and arms is human looking, wouldn't you? It certainly didn't look like Sovereign. 

4  "Long story short, lets be honest, Mass Effect 2 was great, it was emotionally engaging too" - In my opinion in wasn't. Had it been a brand new, stand alone maybe I would have thought it better but compared to ME1 and how I engaged with that game, this was I'm afraid, not as good.



1.  Ah, that's a tough one because all mission-based games can be boiled down to that one.  Plus I personally didn't use cover as often during that mission, certain segments made it a good idea while others I went right at them.  You may want to consider changing your play style.

2.  Odd, you must have a slightly defective disc because they all die in specific, identifiable ways.

3.  Absolutely, it was a Reaper based on the human species.  No one's arguing with you there.  Actually you quoted me saying that.

4.  You can say the game's story was not as good as the first without discrediting what the game did do.  But if you honestly feel ME2 was horrible, to each their own... but I'd have to respectfully and totally disagree (as most people would).

#217
AdmiralCheez

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Payne by name wrote...

It's the nostalgia factor.  Most people like the first best because it's when everything was fresh and new”.  I can see the logic in that and I think that could have played out had ME1 been almost a stand alone game and due to it’s success Bioware green lighted a second. When the studio though were so adamant from the beginning that it was an inter-connected  trilogy and kept reminding us that actions in the first would have repercussions in the second, I think it understandable that people would expect more of the same.

Problem is, more of the same is boring.  I like every game in a series to be different from the first one.  Not every change they made to ME2 was a good thing, but the fact that there were changes at all made it fun to play.  I don't like it when development stagnates, because when that happens, everything might as well be an expansion pack.
 

I remember the lead programmer talking how ME2 would be the dark one, like Empire Strikes Back. Now TESB was darker but it didn’t lose what made it a Star Wars film. Many people went into ME2 expecting it to be the same because that’s what we’d been told to think and expect.

It was still Mass Effect to me.  Sure, there was more combat and cool explosions, but the core elements were still there.  And, like I said, more of the same is boring.  Even the best food in the world will start to lose its flavor if you eat it every day.  Mix it up!
 

You also used the example of FOTR, which is a good one. To me, that was the best of the three, maybe because of the introductory material but also because of the way it played. Unfortunately, although Jackson had filmed all three together, he edited the 2nd after having listened to feedback from the 1st. It was just a shame that the stuff he listened to were elements that damaged a relationship that had the chance to be really great in Legolas/Gimli. Gimli became the comedy bringer and Legolas always struggling to find the ‘cool’ moves to appease the screaming fanboys.

Is it bad when I say Two Towers is my favorite of the three?
 

Obviously that is just one example but I think it’s indicative of feedback affecting the ‘purity’ of a story. You can’t help but think that the whole trilogy would have been better had the makers trusted their instincts after making FOTR and not listened to the feedback.

And this is the part where I completely disagree.  Going on your own instincts is fine if you're making something just for yourself, like a painting, but sometimes your own intuition can give you bad feedback.  Listening to the fans is important since they're the ones ultimately buying your product, and a lot of them can pick out things you missed.  It's simply a matter of recognizing which suggestions are bad advice and knowing when following your own intuition is a better idea.  Bioware seems to have overcorrected, but hopefully they've learned their lesson.

Besides, fanbase reaction saved Han Solo.  He was supposed to be dead at the end of Empire, but George Lucas brought him back, tweaking the story so he was "just frozen."  And, let's face it, Return of the Jedi wouldn't have been as fun without him.  Also, Garrus romance: cheap fanservice suddenly becomes some of the sweetest and most hilarious dialogue in the game.  Epic win.
 

Part of me feels the same for ME1 (which I understand makes my rambling diatribe pointless) but it’s like they got rid of everything that people screamed they disliked but didn’t try to factor in the things they did like. With the subsequent financial success of ME2, I can’t help but see Bioware continuing down the road they’re on of dumbing down, ‘cooling’ up and making more cash.

With all the people crabbing about how ME2 was too dumbed down, I don't think you have to worry.  Christina Norman herself has said that they're putting some more focus on RPG elements.  Oddly enough, listening to the fans may just be what "saves" ME3 from becoming a typical shooter.

#218
Bourne Endeavor

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

Problem is, more of the same is boring. I like every game in a series to be different from the first one. Not every change they made to ME2 was a good thing, but the fact that there were changes at all made it fun to play. I don't like it when development stagnates, because when that happens, everything might as well be an expansion pack.


While your mileage may vary, I found ME2 was indeed an expansion, merely a fantastically developed one. It did essentially nothing to move the plot forward and frankly forgot the Reapers even existed for the vast majority. The Collectors were an arbitrary threat I am certain will see vague references at best going forward. In the end, if squad mates do not return, which is an extremely likely scenario, ME2 will have been a pointless addition to the trilogy. Does not mean I do not thoroughly enjoy it of course.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 08 décembre 2010 - 11:19 .


#219
BiancoAngelo7

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Completely



Agree



With



EVERYTHING



the OP said.



(no sarcasm)



He has said (written) what so many of us have felt and thought. I know I personally love to play ME2 so much because its the only game out there that even remotely comes close to being the sequel I expected after ME1 and was harshly denied.



Take a minute to reread what I just said and let it sink in.



Yeah. You know it's true.

#220
AdmiralCheez

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Bourne Endeavor wrote...

While your mileage may vary, I found ME2 was indeed an expansion, merely a fantastically developed one. It did essentially nothing to move the plot forward and frankly forgot the Reapers even existed for the vast majority. The Collectors were an arbitrary threat I am certain will see vague references at best going forward. In the end, if squad mates do not return, which is an extremely likely scenario, ME2 will have been a pointless addition to the trilogy. Does not mean I do not thoroughly enjoy it of course.

And that, Bourne, my dear, is the one thing that really made me mad about ME2 (boy oh boy did they nerf the plot) and the only and enough reason why some of the old crew will--no, must--make a return.

#221
SithLordExarKun

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AdmiralCheez wrote...


Problem is, more of the same is boring.  I like every game in a series to be different from the first one.  Not every change they made to ME2 was a good thing, but the fact that there were changes at all made it fun to play.  I don't like it when development stagnates, because when that happens, everything might as well be an expansion pack.
 

Exactly. This is why i couldn't replay New Vegas as much as Fallout 3 because it was essentially the same game.  Thats what many of these ME1 elitist snobs don't realize.

#222
Destroy Raiden_

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IoCaster wrote...

As a sequel to Mass Effect it is a total train wreck. It goes off the rails in the opening scene with the head Cerberus goon and his genetically sculpted, chief goonette. I just think that it's a contrived mess of inconsistent writing and nonsensical plot. I've come to the conclusion that the plot of the game was conceived as a vehicle for the inclusion of a bunch of Saturday morning cartoon characters. There are too many of them and they're much too eXtreme, badass and 'elite'. The 'best of the best' don't ya know. They took a reasonably serious and mature storyline in ME and drove it into the ground with a bunch of goofball, comic book characters. They could have subtitled the game "Galactic Avengers" or some such nonsense and it wouldn't have seemed out of place. They killed off Shepard and destroyed the Normandy for this? What a wasted opportunity indeed.


^ That

#223
Payne by name

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Nozybidaj wrote...

Payne by name wrote...

"Long story short, lets be honest, Mass Effect 2 was great, it was emotionally engaging too" - In my opinion in wasn't. Had it been a brand new, stand alone maybe I would have thought it better but compared to ME1 and how I engaged with that game, this was I'm afraid, not as good.


I have always said I thought ME2 would have worked much better as a spinoff, throw someone random like Conrad in as the lead or someone totally new and have at it.  The second part of a trilogy though isn't really the place for the creators to try out every character idea they've had floating around in their head all at once in a big giant ball of inconsistency while simultaneously bagging on everything that came before and not doing anything at all with the actual plot of the trilogy. 

If they just absolutely had to get all these characters out of their system and try new things, ME2 which really should have been about character development and building up the plot and the reaper threat into the third game was totally the wrong place to do it.  


Yes, I can see that argument. If it was looked at as fleshing out the universe, then it could have had a place. But shaking it up for the sake of it, with no clear advancement in the overall story or the Reaper threat was a luxury that, in my opinion, would have been better in an add on rather than a full blown sequel.

I wouldn't have minded an appetite whetter for ME3 if it had all been about getting all the players in place for the coming fight. Maybe visiting the homeworlds of the main races, carrying out missions to gain loyalty etc. At least then the direct consequence of your actions could have really affected how ME3 played out. That being of course how ME2 was marketed to us.

I can't help but think how will they play the third one with regards to characters. I mean they'll have to add even more characters for those that got them killed in ME2 or are picking up ME3 for the first time. So if we managed to keep them all alive in the suicide mission, we could be swamped with even more, naturally of course to the detriment of the existing crew members.

#224
Payne by name

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Leikn wrote...

On my part, I'd prefer more romance actions/talks~ Cuz the dialog options are almost always the same~

And the clips are a pain to get all the time, my god~


I certainly would have preferred more talking and maybe conversational branches that you couldn't go back to so heighten the feeling of playing in the 'right now'. I had thought that being on two discs we've would have been blessed with so much more conversation options.

Amen to your comment on the clips.

#225
Payne by name

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Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Payne by name wrote...

1  "On Horizon, you're supposed to be saving the colonists as fast as you can while still taking in what's happening, that's not really the place for sight-seeing." - Fair comment but you aren't taking in the atmosphere when it's effectively - Go to point A, now go to point B, cover, shoot, repeat.

2  "If your member died in the suicide mission, it was for a clear reason. You see how all of them die except for the final fall (where steel beams are on them... but that's pretty self-explainatory). " - Believe me, I was paying close attention during the Suicide Mission but the first I knew of Mordin dying was seeing him on the floor. No explanation was offered. I'd completed his loyalty mission. He was just gone.

3  "Additionally, it wasn't a human-looking ship.. they were actually building a Reaper based on the human species." - I'd say that a final big boss with a face, neck, body and arms is human looking, wouldn't you? It certainly didn't look like Sovereign. 

4  "Long story short, lets be honest, Mass Effect 2 was great, it was emotionally engaging too" - In my opinion in wasn't. Had it been a brand new, stand alone maybe I would have thought it better but compared to ME1 and how I engaged with that game, this was I'm afraid, not as good.



1.  Ah, that's a tough one because all mission-based games can be boiled down to that one.  Plus I personally didn't use cover as often during that mission, certain segments made it a good idea while others I went right at them.  You may want to consider changing your play style.

2.  Odd, you must have a slightly defective disc because they all die in specific, identifiable ways.

3.  Absolutely, it was a Reaper based on the human species.  No one's arguing with you there.  Actually you quoted me saying that.

4.  You can say the game's story was not as good as the first without discrediting what the game did do.  But if you honestly feel ME2 was horrible, to each their own... but I'd have to respectfully and totally disagree (as most people would).


1. Fair comment but I found the combat had a progressive, predictable linearity to it.

2. I certainly don't remember seeing how he died because I was surprised that he had at the final tally up. I'll look on YouTube to see if his unique death scene triggers anything.

3. Not to be pedantic but you informed me "that it wasn't a human looking ship". I'd say a face, eyes, body and arms made it look human.

Add to that the contemptuous regard that Sovereign and the Reapers have for humans, I found it hard to reconcile that they felt the need to directly reference us. What makes them so fearless as an enemy is their cold mechanical arrogance.

The fact that they have been exterminating races over the millenia without a great deal of concern for who or what they're killing. Like the Terminator who wouldn't care whether it was a dog, horse or human stood in his way of fulfilling his mission.

4. I'm happy for us to respectfully disagree with each other.